EPTI might be back tomorrow or something, Alan and Djo, have fun riding each other's manhood in the meanwhile.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXIX - Page 6
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I might be back tomorrow or something, Alan and Djo, have fun riding each other's manhood in the meanwhile. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Alsn's original case + Show Spoiler + On October 28 2012 22:31 Alsn wrote: Ok, I'm going to preface this by some WIFOM, although I think it's merited in this case. Looking at the situation right now, the only one at risk of lynching seems to be Djodref. More importantly, he seems to be completely alone in his plight. I think he's scummy, but this fact alone leads me to believe that one of the following three options must be true:
Looking at these scenarios, and I'm convinced they're the only ones possible, I find the last one to be extremely unlikely. While myself and others have at times at least questioned whether or not Djod was all that super scummy, no one that I know has ever diverted a hypothetical Djod lynch unless it was done very subtly. In fact, the only argument that I feel can be made that he is scum and other scum has diverted attention away from him is the lynches against Inig and da0ud. Kush(and admittedly to a lesser extent myself) were responsible for the latter, while the lynch against Inig was Djod himself in tandem with debears(and possibly someone else, I don't remember, please correct me here if I'm wrong). Lastly, Djod actually switched his vote from Inig to da0ud and was the last one to do so IIRC. To me, scum "securing" a lynch on a townie makes no sense whatsoever. The only ones at risk of actually vote switching near a lynch are actual scum, so protecting themselves against a switch is meaningless. That to me leaves the first two options and in both of them Djod is not scum. Sure, he could be SK and his actions don't really dispute that but to be honest, I would rather have a possible SK(and I'm not convinced he is) left alone and actually try and lynch mafia. Mostly because an SK isn't that worrisome if we still have a pretty good town vs scum majority. For that reason, I looked at the possibilities left. Either scum is keeping really quiet and all of us accusing Djod are town, or scum are in fact trying to get Djod lynched. I find the latter more likely, although unfortunately I don't really have a good explanation for why I think that is, it's basically just a hunch, although not an insignificant one. With that in mind, I went through both Mr. Cheese' and Dandel's filters and lo and behold, upon closer inspection I can't really find any good reasons to think that they are town. Sure, Cheese hasn't done anything particularly scummy but looking at his behaviour as a whole he hasn't done anything particularly town either. Basically, Cheese's actions amount to suspecting Djod and... well, that's pretty much it. Apart from arguing semantics and policy, that's pretty much his entire contribution. On the other hand, Dandel is in the same boat, with added baggage in fact. His contributions also amount to pretty much only suspecting Djod but with the added bonus that he said several times that he would tunnel kush, seemingly for no apparent reason. In fact I think the SK/vig(whoever it may be) killing kush actually messed things up quite a bit as I'm now thinking Dandel's entire plan was to tunnel kush simply because he's not a very hard target to attack(for those of you who are new, kush has a... let's say "vivid", reputation). Especially since he got a townie lynched. Finally, almost every single post of Dandel so far in the game has been fluffy at best, scummy at worst. He kept bringing up policy voting well after most people had started talking about it, as if he wanted the discussion to continue. His so called "case" on Inig was pure OMGUS and finally, his unwillingness to actually switch from that OMGUS case even though he actually admitted himself that it wasn't a very good case. In fact, the two people that could have actually been switched to were either Djod(who he at the time had said he wasn't convinced was scummy) and da0ud(for reasons I now suspect he didn't want to be associated with vote flipping onto a townie). So, to sum up my case for why Dandel Ion is scum
I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this matter, since I'm feeling pretty good about my case at this point. Oh and, ##Vote: Dandel Ion So, he not only prefaces, but pretty much BASES his case on WIFOM. Not the most optimal strategy to start with. So, the first half of the post is complete fluff and only makes it look like that case has more content/base than it actually has. Then, he says Cheese and I are similar in that we only suspect Djo and nobody else, but I somehow have "added baggage". I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but okay. Had he read my filter properly though, he would've been able to see that me only suspecting Djo is far from the truth. Oh wait, in fact, he does see that it's far from the truth. In the SAME paragraph where he says I only suspect Djo, he even aknowledges that I also suspected Kush. (I also supect(ed) Inig btw.) This is a blatant contradiction and I stopped reading here the first time I saw it. Then, he determines that "every" post I made was either fluff or scummy. I made some posts that could be considered fluff for most people, I suppose. So, okay, whatever. But he states no reason for calling "every" other post I ever made scummy. In fact, he doesn't even point out a single one. If you think my play is "scummy" overall, then say that. If you come out with things like "all his posts are scummy", and can't even point out a single one, then this signals to me that you can't do so, BUT you want your words to have stronger impact. And there is no reason to look for that, unless you know yourself that your case is not as good as you'd like it to be. "The-guy-that-is-always-the-second-one-to-go-after-somebody" debears: + Show Spoiler + On October 29 2012 00:23 debears wrote: @Dandel Flame fest is anti-town. If you think Alsn's case isn't good, actually argue against his points. Otherwise, your actions so far imply that you think you are guilty and you can't refute his case. ##Vote Dandel This vote is staying put unless you explain yourself and the case of Alsn and do some scumhunting I don't think that could've been called a "flame fest" yet, but opinions vary I suppose. Yes, that's my contentless response to a contentless sheeping. Because he asks for it all the time: + Show Spoiler + On October 29 2012 00:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @ Dandel I also want an answer to this question you so conveniently avoided. Why playing the confused card? I thought you were against the noobie card, which is basically the same? I was not actively trying to play the newbie card, and I can't do much more than say that. I WAS confused, which is why I acted confused. I think I may have even said that I was, and I honestly didn't think about how it would "look" to others. I can't say much more than that on this matter. Take it or leave it. "Hey-guys-we-didn't-do-any-NK-speculations-yet" Djodref: + Show Spoiler + [QUOTE]On October 29 2012 10:14 Djodref wrote: Regarding dandel, I've found him very quick to accuse me as a SK at the beginning of D2. I know that he is saying that I'm SK or scum but his posts strongly imply that I'm more SK than scum (he brings thrawn meta in and says I'm more likely to be SK than scum). It makes a lot of sense from a mafia point of view. It's true that I didn't consider the fact that Kush could have been killed by the mafia and that I have found a possible reason for the mafia to have targeted sylverfire quite fast. It was obvious for me that mafia would never had killed Kush because of my experience of the last game. Correct me if I'm wrong but Kush is never NKed by the mafia when he rolls town. Anyway, I should have looked like I had some extra information about the night kills. So, from a mafia point of view, I really should be looking like a SK. I find it very strange that dandel didn't wait that long for a vig to claim. Getting a SK lynched is good for the image I guess so he comes at me very fast with a weird meta argument to support the fact that could be SK. [u]To sum up[u] Scum dandel knows that I'm not going to flip scum. Reacting to an apparent extra information about the NKs from my side, he comes at me very fast saying that I'm SK (not waiting for a claim, backing it up with poor arguments). He doesn't have the time to go through 18 pages of Thrawn's filter. Seriously, it makes so much sense ! Town dandel would have reacted slower to an apparent extra information about the NKs from my side. It doesn't tell if I'm scum or SK (please check Cheese reaction to see the difference). His reaction could have been possible but it makes less sense. ##Unvote ##Vote Dandel You keep implying that I came after you "very fast", but that is a straight up lie. I gave you EASILY enough time to claim. I ask: "Is there something you want to tell us?" You seem to not want to tell us anything out of your own accord, so OVER 10 HOURS LATER, I make my post where I accuse you of being scum/SK. (This could've been avoided if Rad was faster at claiming, but better late than never.) You, Djo, will be happy to hear that I don't think you're the SK anymore, and you went back to being only Scum to me. You somehow arrive at how I "don't have the time to look through thrawn's filter", and I don't even know how you got to that assumption, or how it's relevant at all. But it's now redundant anyways. Honestly though, I probably couldn't point out a single collection of posts and point at it saying "this is where I got my scum/SK read on him", because he didn't have any obvious slips in there. He just posted a metric shitton and I always got a scummy feel off his posts. Which is pretty much what I get from you, only you post things that are slips, or at least look like them to me. Your "case", or post, or however you want to call it, is oddly similar to Alsn's too, in that 50% of it is speculation and WIFOM, which should have no place in there, and which I suspect is there only so that it makes it look like you had anything to actually base your read on. But I haven't seen anything. Oh, and I'm going to say this again, I was pushing for your lynch because you were either scum or SK. The chance of you flipping town are and were incredibly slim in my mind. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
This game, man. I'm going to sleep. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I did not ask for this... | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 29 2012 19:20 Djodref wrote: Regarding the beginning of D2, I find it quite weird that dandel considered the possibility for Kush to have been killed by the mafia. He has played a game were he was mafia and he had kush as a self-claimed jailkeeper and they didn't even kill him. Kush is never night killed by the mafia, even if he fears it a lot, that is known  Oh god, can you be quiet about this? Yes, I even said this in this thread, I wouldn't NK Kush as scum. But that doesn't mean that other people wouldn't, too. I find it weird that you DIDN'T consider the possibility. Only now the Kush shot is claimed, so you didn't think about it because you are scum, and you shot Sylver. You seriously like substituting scumhunting with NK speculation. Only a bit more than 12 hours left in the day, and you still use your NK speculation nonsense to try and justify a scumread that you know is wrong. Why? because your other arguments are things like "His cases on day 1 on people with ~2 posts were lacking in content" Well, no shit. You tell me a way to get content in there, and we can talk again. btw, let's revisit how YOU explained your initial vote on Inig: On October 26 2012 09:16 Djodref wrote: I have already my eyes on you and I think that your posts lack content and scumhunting. You are my top scumread right now. Let's assume that the lurkers are going to get modkill today, who would you like to lynch ? Vote-pressuring you ## Vote Inig Now, that's a case of content! You even back off your "top" scumread in the same post by saying you are just pressuring him. You later make a post saying the same exact thing, just with a huge bolded "WHY WE SHOULD LYNCH INIG" as the title. In there, you rehash the point other people already made (Me, for example) about the WIFOM as the only additional thing to explain the upgrade from "just pressuring". WIFOM/association zone, enter at own risk: + Show Spoiler + I think Roco is in a scumteam with Djo. It explains why nobody really defended Djo yet (although he wasn't particularily in danger day 1), and also how he hasn't been modkilled yet. But he comes into the thread now, and tries to vote me for a really shady reason? I guess we know which wagon he would prefer... Also, Djo often tries to defend himself by pointing out that nobody is defending him, which I interpret as him trying to get even a slight advantage out of being in a scumteam with lurkers. I consider this vote as Roco claiming scum, and he shows he doesn't want to lynch Djo. Why is he so obvious about it? It's his first game AND he's been afk for most of it. I sure don't expect subtlety from him. _____________________ By this theory, the third scum is probably Nachkt. Inig is actually unlikely with how Djo was over him day1 for no good reason. I don't have a scumread on Alsn, even though I am disappointed in his play so far. If the third scum is active, however, it would likely be debears, since I consider him experienced enough to not defend a scumbuddy if need be. But I also don't have a scumread on debears, so by process of elimination, it pretty much has to be Djo/Roco/Nachkt Djo tried to bus Nachkt early in day 1, probably because NAchkt told him he wouldn't come back, so Djo tried to salvage towncred for himself, for catching scum, instead of watching him get modkilled. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I wasn't 100% sure about Inig. I said you were either SK or scum (this time I made it the "right" way around, just for you) because I had a scumread on you, and you posted this NK speculation nonsense you like so much. The way you were going on about how it was impossible that scum shot kush made me think you killed him, after you didn't claim Vig when I asked you about it, I thought SK was more likely. It is not really a matter of lynching a SK OVER scum. You had a good chance of flipping either, and since Kush died, I didn't really have any strong scumreads left. So in the end, you were my strongest scumread AND a SK candidate. Lynching you was a win-win situation in my mind. Now that the shot on Kush is accounted for, you are back to "only" being my top scumread. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 29 2012 20:55 Djodref wrote: And I'm sorry to tell you this but my case against Ini, while not having a lot of content, is better than my initial voting post that you quoted. Please find it in the spoiler... + Show Spoiler + On October 26 2012 12:22 Djodref wrote: Why we should lynch Inig First of all, I would like you to read Inig's filter before you read this case. It's not going to take you long time and you should also make your own opinion by yourself. I would like to lynch Inig for the following reasons
Total lack of scumhunting + Show Spoiler + Even if he is claiming that he has done some scumhunting, Inig has not given us any scumread and has asked a total of two questions to other players. He is not putting pressure or anyone or trying to understand the motives of anyone. On October 25 2012 15:39 Inigmaticalism wrote: Ah yes i see, the 'why' is more important than the 'what'. Excellent, Sylver answer Djo when u wake up. On October 26 2012 08:34 Inigmaticalism wrote: Right now I dont have any scum reads, only town reads which Ive already said in earlier posts. So I would lynch one of the lurkers probably. Also, Djo you seem to be the only one really going after me, so while your asking everyone what they think of me, you should answer your own question. what you you think of me? -Should be back to post something in around 6-7 hours. As you can see, he is not really committing, even when he asks some questions. Emotionally detached from this game + Show Spoiler + When I'm reading Inig's filter, I have the feeling that he is spectating this game and not a part of it. This is a characteristic of mafia players. He tries to look active by telling us what is going on in the thread in his view but he is not giving us extra information. This post is a perfect example of such an empty posing style. On October 25 2012 15:27 Inigmaticalism wrote: I have a thought regarding the Rad-Debears argument, over the whole 'confidence' thing. Its possible Im wrong, but it seems that Rad views the world in a more 'logical' way, meaning that in this case (playing mafia) having sound logic and scum reads will naturally result in confidence from said logic. Debears may happen to be more 'emotional', in this case where having a strong will/confidence allows for people like him (and me) to be very logical when there is a strong emotional base beneath them. You've both brought up the pros and cons about each type of viewpoint, so it should be beneficial if you guys watch out for each other. It seems you've both explained what you meant fairly well, and Im especially glad to see this post from you Rad cause I was getting slightly worried. Ha just saw you summed up my analysis for me: @ sylver You seem fairly energetic. Also, don't really think "What's your favorite role to play in mafia?" keeps us all that focused on scum hunting, but as it may be some clever scheme of yours Ill bite. ......Well actually I won't because I realized I was typing how I play the game. How clever. Loaded question indeed. Attempt to gain town cred by using a WIFOM argument + Show Spoiler + This is the most incriminating point in my opinion. Please have a careful look at the following part from Ini in bold font. On October 26 2012 03:42 Inigmaticalism wrote: /snip As for everyone else I need to read their posts again. It seems my scum-hunting has so far resulted in town-finding, but thats how its gone. Also, I deliberately dodged sylvers question about what your favorite role is to play to show I was town(which, ironically because he was role hunting, still answered his question). I would never have posted such an awkward response if I was mafia, I would have simply ignored the question all together, but it seems no one took it that way. How can you show that you are town by not answering question ? Why does he bring something like this up ? Mafia players usually try to get as much town cred as they can, for whatever weird reason. I think he knows his reason to claim town are bad and that's why he is backing it up by a WIFOM argument. I mentioned that. In case you can't find it, let me quote that part. You later make a post saying the same exact thing, just with a huge bolded "WHY WE SHOULD LYNCH INIG" as the title. In there, you rehash the point other people already made (Me, for example) about the WIFOM as the only additional thing to explain the upgrade from "just pressuring". I don't think it's better. You repeat 2 points, then you add the WIFOM that has been talked about already. There was nothing original in that post, the only thing that's actually better is the formatting. Do you think formatting is a suitable substitute for scumhunting? | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
No I'm not, lol. That was BEFORE the daypost. My suspicions on you, I pushed AFTER the daypost. Because that's when they got a foundation. I also had a FoS on you before that. Did YOU forget that? | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 29 2012 21:03 Djodref wrote: No, but it is useful to actually promote your lynch. You should be concise and clear as town. Presenting your case with the main points is helping you for both. Okay. I am leaving the thread now, because you try to make me flame you again. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I am Honda, some fat guy. AKA the roleblocker. Why am I claiming now? Should be obvious - I don't want to get mislynched, and that's what seems to be about to happen. Do you have the crumbz? Yes. + Show Spoiler + I actually forgot about the crumb at day 1 at first, and I only remembered the next morning that I should've crumbed it, which is why it's a bit later, and not in my first batch of posts. Rectifying this is quite literaly the first thing I do, then:link On October 25 2012 19:23 Dandel Ion wrote: Right on, I'M Back. [blablaba] Bolded. Not my brightest moment, but I was tired and couldn't come up with a better way to incorporate that. I also majorly stressed out about how easy that seems to spot, but it appears nobody did. Maybe the tricky "splitting R and B" is actually amazing. My night action was roleblocking Kush. He was my strongest scumread, and while it was unlikely even then, that scum would send Kush to kill, frankly, I just had no idea who else to block. I'm no JK, so I can't save people (I wouldn't have guessed Sylver anyways, so w/e) Context: It's night, I had posted my case on Kush. His response to it was saying "it's bad". That's it. After he posts his nonsense about how he won't be nightkilled now (something he does like to post as scum), I decide to roleblock him. Link On October 28 2012 00:03 Dandel Ion wrote: So you're saying, his meta is actually the same to you? After you tried to make it out as if there was some huge meta divergence? Right. I call Bullshit, Kushyboy. Pretty straightforward. To keep it in line with the first crumb, I capitalized the B again. ((I also almost never call people by "wrong" names ingame, except for situations like this, or if I'm really sure they are scum. Both applied here. But you can take that or leave it, it doesn't matter)) Nothing happened that made me want to change that, so I stuck with it. Why I was so fixated on Djo being the SK: Because, and this part is actually not the best argument, because it's not IMPOSSIBLE, just unlikely, but I thought JK+Cop+RB+Vig would be too much blue, so I practically eliminated the possibility of a Vig. and I got VERY leery of how Djo randomly jumped into the thread and started a NK speculation (in itself bad enough, since it's little more than fluff) AND started talking like it was a 100% certainity that Sylver was the scum KP AND he found a reason why Sylver was killed in, like, ~10 minutes after the flip (this was pointed out by somebody else, can't remember who). So where does this leave us? (from my perspective) Djo is still scum. Alsn made a case on me, so I feel the need to OMGUS him. He's also currently in the process of setting up Cheese as his next lynch, but I'm not sure where that puts him, since Cheese is null to me. Roco pretty much claimed scum by sheeping onto the current case, no reasons given. Then he vanished into thin air again. His actions stink like he was told what to do in a QT. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even read the thread himself. No matter what, he's an ABSOLUTE liability, even if he should actually be town. Nackht is looking more townish now, although the reasons why he finds Cheese scummy still elude me. Frankly, I didn't really understand that post. The reasons for Alsn are even more obscure, cause he didn't give any, looks like. Cheese is still pretty null to me. I'll have to read nackht's post some more and try to make sense of it... debears is likely town, though it's strange how he defends me so hard just based on meta. Honestly though, at this point, I don't have a problem with it. He dug all that stuff up (A for effort) and actually thinks about the game, unlike many others in here. Rad has given me no reason to not read him town, still. I believe his Vig claim, no matter the implications on the setup. Plus, since he claimed the shot, it'd be suicide for him to shoot somebody else. If he's actually SK, then he's pretty damn good at this game. I am also seriously pissed that nobody actually even aknowledged my defense, and Djo just spammed 2+ pages full of WIFOM bullshit oneliners instead. I have, to this point, not seen an actual REASON why I'm supposed to be scum, and I didn't want to claim just because nobody reads the thread. Also, really cool how nobody is even in the thread anymore. Guess I shoulda posted this even earlier... | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Must've forgotten about him | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I don't know how frequently nackt reads the current thread (he's catching up and stuff), and the thread seemed to be pretty damn empty. I'd rather claim a little too early, than too late. I've seen too many newbies get lynched because they claimed 5 minutes before the DL. I'm also out the next hour or so, and I'd rather people do something productive in the meantime. Alsn is also balls deep in confirmation bias (IF he is town, that is), Inig not here, .... Too risky to wait imo | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Djo didn't read my claim post. Yes, I blocked somebody N1. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 30 2012 07:45 Djodref wrote: What are you gonna do when I flip green ? Weep in a corner, probably. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 30 2012 07:55 nackhtjogger wrote: Dan you should have breadcrumbed who you're going to use your night action on. I did? I roleblocked Kush and I breadcrumbed it. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 30 2012 07:57 Dandel Ion wrote: I did? I roleblocked Kush and I breadcrumbed it. Or do you mean the next one? Cause that would actually make more sense, and I should've probably done that. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I'm looking through filter/cases on him. But I dunno, man. I've had a scummy feel on you from pretty early on... Well, I'll take another look, but so far Cheese has been nothing but a null read for me. I'm not positive I want to take what I consider to be a pretty big gamble... | ||
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