EPTAperture Mafia 2: Portal Edition - Page 7
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Do you still want to kill them? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On October 06 2012 08:50 gonzaw wrote: Drazerk, I made a post "proving" S&B and Keirathi are not scum (of course not 100% proof, but I think it's valid). Do you still want to kill them? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On October 06 2012 09:27 austinmcc wrote: So two factions. Still only a single night KP. Either we had protects or...we're probably at 2 red unknown black and one team might have no KP? I think I'm going to focus on other game for tonight, come back tomorrow morning with full thoughts on this. It means we need to re-evaluate the iamperfection lynch, look for connections to crossfire, blah blah blah. I think killing drazerk is the right move today. A "one-shot vig" seems REALLY unlikely in this game, but if there's KP missing then there ARE unaccounted for night shots. Which someone might claim in case he was spotted...who could that be? ##Vote: Drazerk Why are you already voting to kill Drazerk if you haven't "thought fully of this"? Same with you Hiro, do you have any thoughts about the whole 2-scum teams at all before parking your vote on Drazerk? We just realized there are 2 factions (we townies), we can't just instantly accept a Drazerk lynch without thinking about this first. It's possible Drazerk is town, just as it's possible he's from 1 scum faction and the scum from the other one are jumping on his lynch without consequences; and both of those suck (the latter not so much of course, but it will waste the whole day) I'm getting weirded out by all of you guys coming out of nowhere and instantly voting Drazerk without even thinking twice even though the game completely changed. I mean, I didn't see anybody (other than Drazerk of course) even flinch at Keirathi/S&B after X's flip for instance. Did everybody just assume they were town and didn't even try to think about it? Come on guys you are better than this. If you still want to lynch Drazerk fine vote him but don't just come say "yeah lol Drazerk obvious scum from some faction", park your vote and do nothing else and then disappear without even acknowledging there are 2 factions (or without trying to cope with it or anything). Maybe I just fail at trying to make sense of Drazerk. Him claiming shooting S&B makes little sense as scum to be honest (if he was scum shooting him he could have kept his mouth shut). He's making 0 effort though and that's damning as hell. Could one of you guys that are absolutely sure Drazerk is red tell me why he'd claim S&B's shot and claim an "improbable" role? Anyways, Drazerk you should probably claim your full role and role name this time | ||
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gonzaw
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On October 06 2012 09:36 austinmcc wrote: AlsoThis initially read as true and a neat thought. But...has anyone EVER seen a black team with no red team? I haven't, so I'm assuming that black knew red was out there the moment they got their PMs. Yep this my be true though. Specially since it's "Aperture Mafia" (and the flavour from Day posts and shit). So BS knew RS ever since the beginning. Can we assume RS didn't know about BS until this day though? I don't remember GlaDOS's role giving any indication that they could spy roles or other alignments or something like that. Also, Xfire didn't have any "KP" per se, he only had KP if someone targeted him at night and he could use it on the guy above or below him in the list (thank god he didn't use it on me :/ ). If the other black dude has a similar "non-straight-kp" role, all KP may be accounted for if Drazerk is town. If Drazerk is scum...then maybe it was the KP from the 2nd black dude? If he's scum I'm getting trouble to think of him as red if red already have KP. RS having normal KP plus a vig-shot from Drazerk is too much against the BS who have very limited KP. Thoughts? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
...although S&B survived, maybe if he died Drazerk would have kept his mouth shut; but after S&B survived he claimed the shot as a vig. Hmm, could be. Ghost So....let's talk about ghost. I'm getting a feeling he might be BS. I don't want to waste time on his earlier posts since I have to eat right now, but we all know what he did. He "trolled" on D1 (with that "aggressive mighty town muthafocker" attitude), disappeared all late D1-N1-early D2; vote S&B, disappeared the rest of D2 and N2 and came back one time at N2 to make a horrible post (this, if someone wants I can break it down for you, but if it's not necessary I won't). He doesn't do shit ever since parking his vote on S&B, and when he comes back he doesn't acknowledge shit that happened. Doesn't acknowledge S&B's claim, doesn't acknowledge Nisani's flip; he straight up quotes 1 post of me and decides it's "the scummiest thing ever" out of nowhere without even addressing me everything else I did or anything anybody did. Of course he completely disappeared after that. I'm getting the BS feel because of Xfire mostly. Here are the times he mentions ghost: On October 02 2012 10:13 Crossfire99 wrote: Oh, I also think this makes ghost town because there's no way a scum would attack his own, so early and leave his vote on him all day despite people trying to convince him otherwise. On October 02 2012 11:08 Crossfire99 wrote: I mean the first person that iamperfection attacks hard and sticks with all day is ghost. I think that is good reason for ghost being town. On October 04 2012 09:15 Crossfire99 wrote: First things, first. I will say that I still have my same town reads on Mattchew, hiro, and ghost. I explained them in an earlier post but they're basically due to day 1 voting. I still see keirathi as town as well due to activity, boldness, confidence and his posting behavior. Gonzaw, what's with this whole thing between you and jingle? I'm going to take a closer look at it, but would like to hear your opinion on it. On October 06 2012 08:00 Crossfire99 wrote: Ok, I'm gonna post my reads that I have right now. I am sticking with my same townie view of Mattchew, hiro, and ghost due to the day 1 votes.... He has his town read on him just because "iamperfection attacked him, and iamp wouldn't bus his scumbuddy so early", and never dwelled on that again. Granted, he mentioned Matt and Hiro too, but at least Matt and Hiro were seen as townies by most people and had "nailed" iampe by voting him. Ghost didn't vote iamp. I know it's not that damning, the thing I'm thinking is that....why defend ghost like that at all? We established BS knew there was a RS at least since IAMP flipped (and maybe even since D1). Nobody else defended ghost like that, so it seemed weird Xfire would defend ghost like that if ghost wasn't his partner. I'm getting the feeling again because he justifies his read on him only once, and never puts any attention on him again, other than "my town read on him is still the same" but even then he groups him with a group of other people (Matt Hiro) so ghost goes unnoticed if anybody reads Xfire's post. Thoughts people? Also, even if we 100% determine ghost is BS....do we lynch him? Scum KP seems to be more dangerous than whatever BS have (melee conditional KP and that shit), so maybe it can be better to try and lynch a RS and maybe let RS deal with ghost (although I doubt they will, like in Liar Game). | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On October 06 2012 10:00 HiroPro wrote: How do you know this? They're a scum team - why wouldn't they follow the normal formula. Where was last night's shot then? If that's the case there's an unaccounted KP from a save/something someone didn't claim (why wouldn't they?) If that's the case too, then BS can turn things around and have like double KP (remember Xfire's role), and that (again) seems kind of unbalanced against town (since BS most likely will shoot town). I get the feeling BS don't have KP and normal scum do; but BS have conditional KP and all that complex weird shit. Kind of like the demons and angels from Purgatory Mafia. Scum (angels) have KP while BS (demons) have other stuff to take down players | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Didn't I post that in my 1st post from N1? If you mean last night...at no points. I was in doubt of his alignment ever since Nisani flipped with a gut feeling of town. After he spent all page 39 screaming at me, I had more doubts and thought "He could be scum and never even try to make a case against me and just skate by with this "oh gonzaw obvs scum" thing forever" so I tried to see if he'd make a case against me or something. Meh, after that I got the same town gut read. After this reveal I'm not so sure, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, at least to see how he reacts to this new info. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
One-shot vig may be the simple explanation for his role. I don't know, if Drazerk won't claim his full role and role name and shit I can't know.....which makes me mad to be honest. Might be missing some factional KP that was protected. If it was a shot on a townie the townie would have claimed by now. Hell if it was a shot on a scum he would have claimed by now anyways (to gain the town cred of "getting shot by scum"). If you as scum shoot someone else who doesn't claim he got shot you know he's scum, so scum wouldn't do that either. Unless Jingle or ghost now claim they were shot (although I find it kind of unlikely) then it seems very unlikely there is a 2nd set of KP. Again, it has to do with balance issues. Imagine we started the game at 9-2-2. Imagine there's a mislynch D1 and 2 scum shots go through on townies, it's 6-2-2 on D2. Another misslynch from town and town basically loses (or have to hope the 2 scum teams fight each other). 1 KP from a team and conditional KP from the other seems more likely. Again, take into account Xfire had an additional KP as well. That means there could be 3 town deaths by scum 1 single cycle in a game with 9 townies. Okay, I'll stop speculating that much and assuming too much. I just don't want to assume the contrary either (that there may be 2 KP per night minimum to both scum) and take decisions based on that (i.e lynch Drazerk because maybe BS have 1 minimum KP per night as well). Hmm, I remember there being a game with 2 factions that had 1 KP each, it was a PYP or PTP or something. Does someone know how many factions/number of players were there? Hmm, although again, just like in D2 if I start thinking if Drazerk is town I have to change my other reads to reflect that. It's possible Hiro is scum along with ghost..but meh Hiro being red seems unlikely. What the fuck maybe you guys are right. I won't vote until ghost arrives or we keep discussing this, but until Drazerk claims his full role and name and all actions (if he hid ones) I might as well support his lynch It's just that a scum Drazerk makes other things seem weird (like a RS scum having more KP on top of their 1 normal KP.) | ||
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gonzaw
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On October 06 2012 10:49 HiroPro wrote: That's not what I'm saying. gonzaw indicated that unless you made a "good case" on him, he was going to consider you scum. You made a case, and gonzaw seemed to consider it horrendous. So I was wondering why that made gonzaw think of you as a bad townie, when judging by his previous thoughts, he was going to call you scum if he didn't like the case. I'm not that stupid. I knew his case was going to be bad from the get-go (hint: I am town, that makes his case slightly bad from the start). I just wanted to know if he thought I was scum just because of me "being aggressive to him" and "calling him OMGUS" or there was something else to it. Ehmm...granted as scum he could just go back, and choose whatever he wanted to accuse me. Again, as town he could have gone back, and used confirmation bias to point anything he wanted. He stopped shitting the thread with that though. But again, like I said I don't really know how to react to that, considering it gave me a gut town feeling. @Keirathi: ORRRR.... maybe you guys can just read that post I made that has nothing to do with your role PMs. | ||
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gonzaw
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Don't worry Jingle, even if I'm RS ghost can be BS, so you can actually pay attention to what I say. | ||
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gonzaw
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On October 06 2012 11:07 JingleHell wrote: I think I'd rather kill the antagonistic scum first, so I'll worry about him after you die. What if he's town and not BS? You don't care right now? On October 06 2012 11:07 Keirathi wrote: Your post made some logic leaps that I didn't agree with. I don't think his claim would have made less sense if he was scum. He felt enough pressure that he claimed. That doesn't change whether you are town or scum. IF S&B was red scum, didn't know there was a black team, and none of his teammates were P-Body, then I think his first assumption would be "Okay, P-Body is town". And with a town P-Body to back up his claim, he gets pressure off of him and some town cred. Then he could kill me at night and have a confirmed green flip that gives 100% merit to his claim. Again, I don't find that at all likely, but that's what I didn't use your explanation. Hmm....that's possible. It's also possible he doesn't kill you at night so he can justify surviving on his own (if people cast suspicion on you 2, then he can say "well Keirathi is still alive and they didn't shot him either right?" and shrug off suspicion). Okay, it's a logic leap. Still, if you were scum and S&B wasn't your team mate you would have not claimed at all and gotten him lynched. I'm sure you can make a pretty fake-claim down the road later just to get a free lynch in S&B | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
So I take it you don't buy my "there was no momentum on iamperfection so I changed my vote" defense? Why not? Why have you not responded to my defense at all? Yeah, I don't like coming back to that....but shit Jingle, if thinking I'm "obvious scum" stops you from considering anybody else at all and talking about anything else at all there's something wrong. | ||
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gonzaw
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I wonder how Post-game will proceed. | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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You make some good points. I cba to quote and post all of them, but yes, one of the scummiest thing he's made is not giving a shit about anything. His post on N2 proves that. He was suspicious of: Keirathi, S&B, austin a little bit; but forgets about all of them just to call me out about setup speculation? I never quite got why people post and completely disappear immediately. Are all of them at work hiding under their desk so their boss doesn't find them and can only post once and never again? If you post you always hang around 10 minutes or so to see what people post. At least 2-3 minutes or something to see if there's an immediate response. If you can't be around you explain why in your previous post, it's not that hard guys, you just have to write 10 more words /off-topic. I didn't notice that quote ghost made about Xfire....damn that's weird. If they were normal scum I'd say it's too obvious. It's still possible they counted on BS being hidden most of the game (like they were), specially after both of them were "almost confirmed town" because of interactions with iamperfection. But I think this is kind of stretching it and making leaps of logic. Hopefully that interaction doesn't mean much. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Anyways, this day seems like it will be wasted, kind of like D2. ghost will show up, make 1 post explaining some stuff and disappear again. Drazerk won't do anything at all, and everybody else will just hang around until he gets lynched. Meh. Multiple faction games so shitty in terms of trying to catch scum (from any faction's point of view really). | ||
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gonzaw
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Your day 1 stance was HAS TO BE SCUM. And he did nothing (that I can tell) to change your mind, you just never pushed him. I explained it above, his interactions felt genuine, specially when he went on to explain why you were town and something else on N1. Meh I fell for it. After Mementos flipped (or maybe before I don't remember), seeing how people basically forced into me that Xfire was mostly townie for "hammering iamp" and stuff they convinced me (again, coupled with his interactions seeming genuine). Fuck I'm playing sloppily today. Anyways, as long as I'm not lynched today it doesn't worry me that much though. I'll have D4 to "defend myself" as black scum if it ever comes down to it. Also I'll save you the trouble of pointing it out later: Yes, if your thesis is correct, it does seem like I'm trying to save the other scum Drazerk from lynch and swinging it to a townie ghost to try and get both scum to cooperate before town kills us both. It's funny how some of these things turn out. | ||
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gonzaw
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I'm interested in people's opinion on this. At least the day won't be a boring bandwagon on Drazerk. P.S: Just to clarify (again, just in case), I am waiting for ghost to come back and discussions to take place before voting. If the lynch was right now I'd lynch Drazerk anyways. The "weird" stuff that comes with him being scum is just not worth saving his ass from a lynch. | ||
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