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Need a game where Jingle was scum though (he doesn't have links in his profile)
On October 07 2012 15:28 Keirathi wrote:
Honestly I could make a case for you being either one. Hell, I LIKE the cases for both teams.
I'm not really sure what that should lead me to think though.
You know...I'd advice people to read Can't Believe and iGrok's game again, and then maybe read any game I've been scum (Liar Game included) and then decide if they still think I'm scum.
I honestly think my town meta is like....a million miles different than my scum one (although my scum play may seem "convincing" inside the game in context).
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If I was scum, you know I'd just post shit all this day and let town bandwagon on Drazerk (whatever alignment he is).
At the very least if I thought Draz was the other scum and I wanted to save him I would have put another lynch candidate on the table by now (and you guys know I'm not "scared" of doing shit like that as scum) instead of mumbling all over the place.
Also I think I would have died of exhaustion as scum by now, with all the posting I did (it certainly takes me a while to make posts as scum, you know, deciding what course of action to take and all that jazz)
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Hmm, what about Hiro? If you can read his filter up there (although I think even LVII or whatever he was in recently would be useful as well).
I'm running out of guys that can be RS to be honest.
I'm stuck with Jingle right now if I'm using a process of elimination (Hiro can't because of the above and the IMAP vote, Matt for leading the IAM lynch, Drazerk because of that gut feeling, austin and you and S&B for being town). Only ghost could be RS as well (although I don't really buy him being RS for now); but I don't know what to think of this elimination process.
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You know, I really want to think of austin as town.....I really do.
But...just the paranoid feeling I have of always having bad reads and that feeling that the guys I'm pursuing just don't feel right for being scum, plus some very minor things he does make me wary.
For instance his insistance on finding keirathi scummy all game long when it didn't really seem he was convinced by it (no matter how much he explained). Or some stuff like posting that player list regarding Mementos' JK ability, and being kind of too wordy in certain aspects, that seem to make him look "super pro-town" but I don't really know if it makes him so.
In the other hand he's at least active in some discussions, like this Drazerk one for instance, and I'm a sucker for people active in discussions.
Maybe in the end the remaining scum team is something like austin-Mattchew or something like that.
All my town games end like that, I think some guys are scum and then completely different guys end up being scum and I end up being embarrassed as shit (Can't Believe the exception though).
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^^ Okay, don't buy it then and ignore it (you may be right about that though. I don't think I would personally try to take a bandwagon off a townie and looking scummy in the process...but I guess there are other players out there that would).
I'd like you to read my previous games though.
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austin feels too "safe".
In Can't Believe I remember him going against the wall to get talismania lynched. Although I admit I could see him being safe there if it wasn't for the talis lynch he lead.
If austin is the sole scum remaining, I guess his actions make sense (playing safe like that)
That thing you said about "scum are probably in panic right now" struck me as interesting. If there is 1 scum remaining, he'd basically play like a 3rd party right now, and 3rd parties always try to be pro-town as possible (non-Palmar 3rd parties at least >_> ).
It's kind of like Rad's play from iGrok's game. I fell for it and thought it was very pro-town...yet there was always the feeling that he could be something, specially since he was alive for too long.
There's the iamperfection connections too, although I don't really want to pay attention to them.
There's the Mementos stuff, which may be WIFOM, but well it's there and Mementos did make some points against him.
Nothing else concrete though, it's not like I have a case or anything, just a bugging sensation.
Again, people's thoughts are welcome.
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austin-ghost wouldn't be a bad bet for scumteams I think.
May be or may not be....but one can daydream and think of it as possible.
Also I want it documented just in case it's true 
..
Yeah, I'm talking my ass out again, I'll try and go to sleep too
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On October 07 2012 16:05 Keirathi wrote:
Damnit, I did it again.
Austin was killed night 1 in Can't Believe. Sciberbia (his mason buddy) was the one who went so hard against talismania on day 2.
marv was killed on N1, austin on N2
I remember both of them leading the lynch on talis. Although that implication does mean austin lead the lynch as well.
Also aha! You won't get any sleep today >:D
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On October 07 2012 23:17 JingleHell wrote:
Oh, and the SNB/Keirathi claim protection target thing is stupid too. If they were scum, which I really don't believe at this point, all they'd have to do is not send in an NK and whammo, they're confirmed town, because they saved the NK!
You forgot the part where, if S&B saves someone he will most likely die (he doesn't have infinite lives).
If he claims 10 shots and is still alive we know something is wrong.
ALso...if they don't send a NK then:
1)There won't be any town deaths
2)If the other scum team use KP on the guys they claimed they saved, they are fucked
How are those 2 things bad? Nevermind don't answer that "plan" won't happen so let's just ignore it.
About the 2 scum per team:
Okay, first of all if this ends up being wrong I'll feel like shit...and I'll be kind of mad at the scum-town distribution of this game.
But like I and Hiro said: If there are more than 2 scum per team there would be like 6-7 town members total and 6 scum total in a minigame with possibly 2 or more scum KP per night.
That's just wrong, very wrong, even if we have a "medic/bodyguard" (which can still die, it's not a medic that can save infinite lives), a medic and a jailer.
Those roles protect night KP, but not from lynches. If town ever so as misslynch on D1 then basically they lose since scum have more members than them.
I don't know why me assuming there are 2 per team is pushing a scum agenda, unless you can prove me wrong.
To austin:
On October 08 2012 01:19 austinmcc wrote:Gonzaw, why this - Show nested quote +On October 07 2012 15:31 gonzaw wrote:
Sadly ghost's last scum game was like what, 1 year ago? (and he has only 1).
Hmm, his "meta" isn't good enough to take into account to be honest. I guess I'll just have to analyze his play here again.
but then making reads on me this game based off town play in Can't Believe? Ghost doesn't have a recent scum game, so you have to analyze his play here. I don't have a recent scum game, so I'm scum because of my play in another game. Also, check D1 of Can't Believe again. I can go more in depth if needed, but I'm not balls to the wall on talis all of D1. I rant about him, try to get him lynched, but in the end (1) i pick up more votes than he does and (2) I unvote him because he posts a single list of reads, like halfway through D1. Marv even called me out on letting go of my talis vote for a little post of reads. I push talis D2 again, because mason buddy and I both agreed on him being scum (See Ver quote again).
I said his "meta" isn't good enough to take into account. I've read his town games, and I saw he has similar behaviour in them. After reading his town games I didn't really conclude anything, he could be either scum or town in this game (there are things similar to his town games, but also there are things that are scummy in this game, like the lack of contributions from D2 til now for instance).
austin, it makes me feel like you are indeed playing safer this game. I don't even remember who you wanted to lynch each day, I only remember you trying to make that last minute switch on Keirathi at the end of D1 but then seemingly forgetting about your scumread on him, and then making that vote on Nisani which didn't sound that convincing to me (as in, you weren't convinced he was scum and tried to get everybody to lynch Nisani and posted about it and shit).
Ever since D2 I don't remember you being confident anybody is scum, but I also don't remember you telling us you aren't confident someone is scum.
For instance I don't know what you feel about the whole "Drazerk was Drazerk-y on D2 thing" You started discussing it with me+Keirathi, and while my stance was that Drazerk could be town, and Kei thought Drazerk could still be scum based on it....I don't even know what stance you had on it other than just talk and talk about Draz.
And now I don't know what stance you have on me. Do you want to lynch me or not? Do you want to lynch Draz or not? You haven't made explicit your thoughts about that at all.
I also haven't seen you "go back and check other games" from players. Maybe this is something you just did on Can't Believe...but I remember you going through an extensive analysis of Risen's play between all his past games in just D1, and doing the same with talis and other players on D2.
Other than using some stuff from PTP3 to accuse Jingle on D1 (which was kind of weak I think), you haven't done that at all.
On October 08 2012 02:52 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 02:44 Keirathi wrote:
So, something about gonzaw:
I've been reading his filters from Can't Believe (town) and Liar Game (scum). His filter this game feels much more like Can't Believe than Liar game. From all the town reads, to the weird setup speculation...it just feels more like Can't Believe.
I still think his play this game could make sense as Black Scum, since they would have wanted to remain hidden and be townie-like, but he's moved way down my list of possible Red Scum. Does his reaction to have some bad reads this game and that game feel different to you? I can't quite fully vocalize it, but I have this gut feel that he's been more "woe is me" this game than in can't believe. It's not...it's not a scum tell, maybe he's just upset at it happening again. But there are some subtle difference that make me feel like his play this game looks close to can't believe but isn't really the same.
I already explained that, have you acknowledged that?
If you want more "woe is me" behaviour look at iGrok's mini-game.
That reaction feels different, the fishing wasn't something that I got out of can't believe. If you look at mason chat especially, I'm convinced as of D2 that Gonzaw KNOWS sciberbia and I are masons. He's being a little coy about it in thread iirc. But he's not quite explicit about it, he's not quite poking us to make sure. I may have been being paranoid there, but his fishing in this game on protective roles doesn't seem similar to his Can't Believe play.
Okay, about the "fishing": You guys will understand later when I claim.
There's a reason I'm "fishing": I want to know more about the setup (I've already said this and it's not a lie).
Why? Well because my role is confusing the hell out of me and I don't know wtf is happening (both with my role and the lack of shit that happens each night).
Remember I was VT in can't believe. I also didn't know you both were masons though :/
I mean...I didn't know who the remaining mason was even after you flipped >_> (I had an idea it was scib, but with him not claiming I wouldn't really know)
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austin: Who is iamperfections scumbuddy?
I'd really want everybody to answer this question so we can lynch the RS first (remember, factional KP).
Because right now for me it's either you austin, Jingle, Drazerk or ghost.
I don't really get the feeling ghost is IAM's buddy (maybe that thing about IAM pushing him, although it's possible), and I don't seem to find Jingle as scum specially after reading his past games.
That leaves me with very few options, you and Drazerk basically. If we conclude Draz is town then that leaves me with even fewer options.
Again, I don't know if this process of elimination is correct or even good to make...but it's what it leaves me with.
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On October 07 2012 23:29 Drazerk wrote:
I agree about the foreknowledge JH but it was in my best interest not to mention it until closer to the deadline. Now of course with two scum teams it isn't quite as clear as it normally would be but it still applies to some extent.
##Vote: gonzaw
On October 08 2012 02:00 HiroPro wrote:
You guys are ignoring the most important thing....
Drazerk's s&b shot isn't just abnormal for him. It's also an inherently scummy action - townies shoot to kill scum, scum shoot to protect themselves.
That's what makes him scum, not this nonsense about whether he's drazerky or a dt or whatever else.
....fuck.
Now I don't really now if Draz is town :/
Why does that vote seem like "okay let me vote for the other guy that's gonna get lynched so I dont' get lynched myself" ?
Also that point about shooting someone he doesn't think is scum...is good I think.
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I also keep getting more and more paranoid of Mattchew. Super pro-town D1, barely active D2 and D3? That sounds familiar.
If it wasn't for S&B being confirmed by Keirathi I'd get the same feeling there.
Reread Jingle and still don't get the feeling he's scum. When he's scum he tries to justify his votes very soon, and tries to contribute a little bit more, in the sense that he tries to get people to think he's contributing (still using that "aggressive" person of his, or trying to).
In this game, he votes me, FoSes me, starts "assuming" I'm scum, but doesn't really care about justifying that FoS/vote. He doesn't seem to care about what people think of him, which strikes me different than his scum Newbie game for instance, or even from Mad Men.
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On October 08 2012 03:57 Drazerk wrote:
You all have to put on your surprised faces or its Drazerk hes a fucking dick posts.
Maybe someone will go a bit overboard on the post and someone will call it out.
For the love of god I hope someone looks at S+B / Kei when you see just how OP my one shot actually was and how it going missing is really bizarre.
Still Gonzaw / Hiro will probably go on the chopping boards which prolongs the two people you really need to kill before Lylo.
Future speculation is fun
1 KP is just 1 KP, how is it so OP?
Also, I know that "either austin or Draz are RS" is assuming I'm town...which I assume everybody is going to ignore and add me to that list as well. But meh
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Wait wait wait.
So Drazerk, you said there's no chance S&B survived that shot?
But wouldn't that be true even if he's scum?
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If so...then the reason he lived doesn't have anything to do with his alignment right?
Maybe Mementos Jailed him so he resisted your KP, but Keirathi targeted S&B so he was anti-RBed (from Memento's jail)?
Maybe there's another medic that didn't claim yet and targeted him (doesn't seem that likely though, considering S&B's play until D2).
Again..assuming you tell the truth about your shot.
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On October 08 2012 04:15 Drazerk wrote:
Well no a medic could of saved him and a bus driver could have shifted medic abilities around especially with a bodyguard ability he could of absorbed someone elses medic save.
Tell me: If he's scum, how did he survive your shot?
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On October 08 2012 04:17 Keirathi wrote:
gonzaw: i already said I didn't target S&B night 1.
My bad (I don't remember who you targeted).
Drazerk, is it possible some scum targeted you with some ability that "weakened" your shot or did something?
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On October 08 2012 04:19 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 04:17 gonzaw wrote:On October 08 2012 04:15 Drazerk wrote:
Well no a medic could of saved him and a bus driver could have shifted medic abilities around especially with a bodyguard ability he could of absorbed someone elses medic save. Tell me: If he's scum, how did he survive your shot? Scum medic?
Which scum?
GlaDOS was dead by N1, Crossfire wasn't medic.
If S&B is scum, he's alone right now, right? Which scum medic would have saved him?
If you assume that, then you assume S&B is scum with someone else in a 3-man scum team.
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On October 08 2012 04:21 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 04:20 gonzaw wrote:On October 08 2012 04:19 Drazerk wrote:On October 08 2012 04:17 gonzaw wrote:On October 08 2012 04:15 Drazerk wrote:
Well no a medic could of saved him and a bus driver could have shifted medic abilities around especially with a bodyguard ability he could of absorbed someone elses medic save. Tell me: If he's scum, how did he survive your shot? Scum medic? Which scum? GlaDOS was dead by N1, Crossfire wasn't medic. If S&B is scum, he's alone right now, right? Which scum medic would have saved him? If you assume that, then you assume S&B is scum with someone else in a 3-man scum team. I believe 4-4-4-1 ATM
How does that make any sense?
It also means that if you are town, and I'm town, then nobody else is town in the freaking game.
So basically you are saying that S&B and Kei belong to the same scum team, and Keirathi is scum medic that saved S&B? So that's why you want to kill them so badly, since one of them flipping red, plus your ability means the other one is confirmed scum?
Even then: That means scum would have had 2 KP each night. Where are the 2 unaccounted for shots from N1 and N2?
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EPT
