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dat night kill. Don't really understand it. Didn't have time to post before the nights end. Only thing I was going to say was if 2 people died, then marv is probably SK. Still possible. But less likely.
If 2 people woulda died it woulda meant this most likely.
N1 I shot mkfuba, Mafia shot Marv (who chose to be night immune), and Marv shot BH.
I think I'm missing something here.
N1 Marv claimed to be roleblocked.
N2 Hapa claimed to be roleblocked.
By these facts it's pretty likely town has a jailkeeper. (since we killed palmar the mafia roleblocker.)
Except this is really weird because why wasn't Palmar's RB ever claimed for night 1?
But yeah its pretty fucking strange that Hapa (Mason), Mementoss (Vigi), and Marv (took down Palmar) are still alive.
Is it possible that SKs shot was blocked or stopped night 1 and now SK is withholding their shots because:
a) After night 1, it seemed to be pretty established that there was probably no SK
b) To make me look bad.
Not sure, just food for thought for now.
Austin was the strongest pusher of Ange left and he died. BH was planning on going after Ange and he died. Palmar called Ange town before he died. WIFOM. I'm going to really have to re-check the filters this cycle.
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EBWOP: The shot on austinmcc coulda been a shot trying to hit jailkeeper.
Only way town doesn't have jailkeeper is if someone is lying. Or if Mafia has more than 1 roleblocker.
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On September 24 2012 06:20 marvellosity wrote:if you were really clever you wouldn't have announced that
Also I don't get it. Why wouldn't you announce being roleblocked. The more information town has the better right?
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On September 24 2012 09:47 Hapahauli wrote:
Marv claimed Jailkeeper
This is why I should read the thread before posting.
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On September 24 2012 09:50 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 09:43 Mementoss wrote:
dat night kill. Don't really understand it. Didn't have time to post before the nights end. Only thing I was going to say was if 2 people died, then marv is probably SK. Still possible. But less likely.
If 2 people woulda died it woulda meant this most likely.
N1 I shot mkfuba, Mafia shot Marv (who chose to be night immune), and Marv shot BH.
I think I'm missing something here.
N1 Marv claimed to be roleblocked.
N2 Hapa claimed to be roleblocked.
By these facts it's pretty likely town has a jailkeeper. (since we killed palmar the mafia roleblocker.)
Except this is really weird because why wasn't Palmar's RB ever claimed for night 1?
But yeah its pretty fucking strange that Hapa (Mason), Mementoss (Vigi), and Marv (took down Palmar) are still alive.
Is it possible that SKs shot was blocked or stopped night 1 and now SK is withholding their shots because:
a) After night 1, it seemed to be pretty established that there was probably no SK
b) To make me look bad.
Not sure, just food for thought for now.
Austin was the strongest pusher of Ange left and he died. BH was planning on going after Ange and he died. Palmar called Ange town before he died. WIFOM. I'm going to really have to re-check the filters this cycle. marv was most likely role blocked by palmar.
Yeah it obviously makes sense that no one claimed being roleblocked because the JK was roleblocked. Now that I know we have a claimed JK.
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Someone take the bottle of whiskey away from HiroPro
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On September 24 2012 10:30 HiroPro wrote:
STOP trying to cut down on discussion!!! We have limited time as it is and I need to pound it into your heads that we need to get rid of the serial killer and it's not me.
Like, remember to listen to me when I'm dead.... LIKE that's the most important thing. The night kills don't make sense. Speculating about night kills isn't WIFOM!
Alright we already know you think Marv is the serial killer.
The serial killer isn't using their KP.
Use your time better and try to find scum.
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On September 24 2012 10:33 HiroPro wrote:Are you the serial killer or something??? Serial killer is scum! Show nested quote +
Scum is a catch-all term for any member of an informed minority, such as Serial Killers and Mafia goons. During a day phase, everybody is seemingly trying to locate and eliminate these roles.
I know, but saying the same old evidence over and over again isn't productive.
If you think Marv is SK then fine. That means there is still one more scum to find.
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I think HiroPro is town or at least not scummy enough to warrant a vote. Details to come later.
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@HiroPro
You realize there is only way marv can be SK is if there is a town RB or a scum RB.
Buuuuuuuuut, lets cut those chances in half, because why would scum RB ever RB a mason.
And no one has claimed town RB.
So the chances of marv being SK are really low right now. There are better chances that he is a scum RB and RB hapa last night to make this claim and bussed Palmar, and withheld his day 1 RB and Palmar withheld his day 1 RB... Just for this JK claim.....Super unlikely.
If you are still convinced he is SK even though it makes no sense with the night actions. Here are some reasons we shouldn't kill marv:
1) If he is SK Mafia could waste a kill on him if they didn't already
2) Marv is a good player and helped us find scum
3) Marv is JK and can save players
@Marv, why did you decide to claim how/when you did
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On September 24 2012 20:49 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 20:30 Mementoss wrote:
I think HiroPro is town or at least not scummy enough to warrant a vote. Details to come later. Are you on some kind of hallucinogenic funtimes? Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 20:45 Mementoss wrote:
@HiroPro
You realize there is only way marv can be SK is if there is a town RB or a scum RB.
Buuuuuuuuut, lets cut those chances in half, because why would scum RB ever RB a mason.
And no one has claimed town RB.
So the chances of marv being SK are really low right now. There are better chances that he is a scum RB and RB hapa last night to make this claim and bussed Palmar, and withheld his day 1 RB and Palmar withheld his day 1 RB... Just for this JK claim.....Super unlikely.
If you are still convinced he is SK even though it makes no sense with the night actions. Here are some reasons we shouldn't kill marv:
1) If he is SK Mafia could waste a kill on him if they didn't already
2) Marv is a good player and helped us find scum
3) Marv is JK and can save players
@Marv, why did you decide to claim how/when you did I was giving mafia the benefit of the doubt of not being full-blown idiots. Only 1 RB night 1 on me which they know was from them, and then another RB magically appears night 2. It's a very small logical deduction to work out who the jailkeeper is. Why you're even arguing with Hiro is absolutely mindboggling to me.
Im not arguing, Im trying to show him why he is wrong. I don't necessarily think hes scum and I think hes caught in something that is making him look horrible. Yeah I took some funtimes this morning in my wheaties.
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On September 24 2012 20:50 marvellosity wrote:
P.S. I don't think 2 mafia roleblockers is possible in C9++ setup
It doesn't even make sense anyways RB a mason herp herp
I was just going through every hypothetical to get it through Hiros head
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okay lol the only reason I didnt think he was scum was because of a sort of connection of someone else I thought was scum. (maybe possibly 2 other scum)
but guess i wont bother
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Alright here are my thoughts right now and here are kinda my thoughts why HiroPro might not be scum:
Lets look back to how the Palmar lynch went together.
Bluelightz:
On September 23 2012 06:41 Hapahauli wrote:Guys guys guys. Guys. Bluelightz? Still think he's scum, can someone comment on this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=59#1171
Also: Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 13:45 Bluelightz wrote:On Ange777, I like the points against Ange, I don't like that Ange made one case on prplhz, then made another, with the points, it's just recycling bullshit. Right now, Palmar seems more scummy to me then Ange (but willing to switch if need be) because On September 18 2012 23:05 Palmar wrote:
ok I've caught up.
Will read more attentively later, some of you guys textwall like bosses. Here's my current idea of the thread.
I will deny!
iamperfection
Hapahauli
blazinghand
Palmar
Junglers
Zephirdd
Mementoss
bluelightz
prplhz
Ange777
mkfuba07
5 carries on your team
Marvellosity
HiroPro
austinmcc
Seriously? Palmar's a vet but I don't think he can go down this low, I think the unexplained list is self-evident of why it's bad. On September 22 2012 00:09 Palmar wrote:
Hiro, then possibly bluelightz, or austinmcc, but austin I would rather not lynch right now.
ange and zeph are much more in the null/leaning town territory.
hapa, meme, iamperf are the guys I'm pretty sure are town.
It's irrelevant, and sure I can make a case as to why I think Ange is town, but it's not going to be what you expect or what you want to hear.
don't think I can today though. But we have plenty of time. Additionally, This post: Unexplained stuff all across the board! Then he thinks Ange IS town but refuses to disclose why HE thinks Ange is town. Lastly, I view Palmar's tunneling of marv only to be viewed as "doing something" (read: scumhunting). ##Vote: Palmar Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 00:56 Bluelightz wrote:
Also, this is before I go off for the night:
##Unvote
##Vote: Ange777
Don't think having my vote on Palmar will help later on during the last minute mess.
Can't really say it much better than this. Thinks Palmar is scum and is the only case he really made all of day 2, yet before he leaves, he says I won't be back and switches to ange777. only because he thinks his vote on Palmar won't do anything. In addition to this, Bluelightz lack of contribution (1 page of filter) as well as how consistent he pulls off his main scum read. Seems really scummy to me. Hapa sums it up really well.
Zephridd:
Here is the guy I am more confident in, and really think he will flip scum. I will keep it shorter than usual.
Lets sum up Zephridds day 2 play. It makes no sense to me from a town perspective.
Step 1:
Lynch for info, Sheep Ange wagon, restate points that already have been said, vote ange.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 21 2012 11:46 Zephirdd wrote:
As I said, Bluelightz is bluelightz. I can't fucking read him for good. I just ignore him.
iamperfection is my main scum read, and I don't think his voting would make him town. I mean, I'd do that vote if I were scum. It makes no sense as the vote won't matter at the time(prplhz would be lynched anyway), but the fact that you do it in the middle of that clusterfuck makes it look townie. I know this is wifom, but I can see that occuring with a scum player.
As an example, think of Risen on TL Mafia LIII. There, he made some crazy voting/unvoting shenenigans on the last minute when the lynch targets were me and Ottoxlol IIRC. The way he made it made everyone follow the logic that "he is scum if Ottoxlol is scum and town if Ottoxlol is town". Ottoxlol was town, and he was scum. It seriously midfucked everyone. Well, at least me.
This is why I don't think IMP's vote shenenigans would say anything about him being town. Someone mentioned that IMP was more careful when he played as scum, and that makes me think of another player: JingleHell. Last time I player scum with him, he told me he would be really aggressive/abrasive because he was careful on his previous scum game, and his 'town' meta was aggressive.
IMP now and JH then are basically the same: greenhorns who just came out of their newbie games. This is why I don't believe that comparing IMP to his previous scum game will say anything about him being town either.
The issue I have with a IMP lynch right now is this: when I tried to purse his filter for more reasons to kill him, he's proven to be incredibly useful post day1. So while I don't believe the above makes him town, he's been asking some pretty good questions.
And this leads to Ange777. From what I understand, her death would say a lot about imp. Also, you guys did an incredible job at checking ange's actions - we basically need her to explain stuff and see if she's coherent - and she looks really bad after that night I guess.
I want to see what everyone has to say about ange.
Lynching Ange will give information on IAM
+ Show Spoiler +On September 21 2012 11:59 Zephirdd wrote:huuuh I guess I wasn't too straight with that post huh. ok. 1. The voting and the meta are no reasons to call IMP town. His latest posts during the night(questioning ange and stuff), however, are. 2. Ange is looking bad(aka likely scum) when reading all those cases you made. I think she has a decent chance to flip scum. I want to see what other players(Hiro, Bluez, Palmar, ...) have to say about Ange. Oh and I just realized I straight up contradicted myself on my post. Show nested quote +iamperfection is my main scum read
...
The issue I have with a IMP lynch right now is this: when I tried to purse his filter for more reasons to kill him, he's proven to be incredibly useful post day1. So while I don't believe the above makes him town, he's been asking some pretty good questions. So let me explain this. He was my main scum read, and when I tried to look up his filter in order to make a decent case, I changed my mind. I didn't change the first sentences of that post though. Sorry.
Explanation of his shitty info post.
On September 21 2012 12:00 Zephirdd wrote:
I guess without this I can't be obvious enough for you so
##vote ange777
+ Show Spoiler +On September 21 2012 12:50 Zephirdd wrote:iamperfection > attacked Ange marvellosity > attacked Ange Zephirdd > leans scum Mementoss (vigi) > attacked Ange bluelightz > never mentions Ange Ange777 < derp Palmar > null-near-scum >> scummy(quotes prplhz) > never mentions her specifically Hapahauli > attacked Ange HiroPro > no mention of Ange austinmcc > No solid read(1) > Makes some questions to her > leans scum > vote ange(full scum read?) mkfuba07 > talks alot about her, never gives a read(feels like he read her as town?) blazinghand > Included her on list of people to pressure into day 2(aka. reads as scum) prplhz > "Looking terrible", gut feeling that Ange is scum > hates Ange(has a scum read), "ange is tunneling for no reason" from his POV
Her reads on players, since that should be pretty good to hold her accountable for the incoming discussions. iamperfection > questions iamperfection town status(just like I do for most of the time), has some good questions in fact. But only questions. > leaning scum marvellosity > dismiss a case versus marv > "null/town" > reconsiders null/town read after palmar's case(now null/scum? not clear) Zephirdd > NOT A SINGLE FUCK WAS GIVEN Mementoss > "Does not follow up his questions" > "makes himself scummy" bluelightz > asks a question. Not a single fuck. Ange777 Palmar > does not buy palmar being town early into the game > does not like palmar's style > FUCKING ZERO READ ON PALMAR prplhz > 'prplhz is far more scummy' > makes a whole case > makes another case(????) > somewhat completely focused on prplhz being scum all day long never backing off of it Hapahauli > leaning town mkfuba07 > "I'll read fuba tomorrow. Off to bed now." AND NOT A SINGLE FUCK WAS GIVEN EITHER HiroPro > calls him semi-lurker. That's it blazinghand > leaning town austinmcc > does not think he is scum > actively defends him Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 20:49 Ange777 wrote:
No one here to comment on my updated prplhz case? I'd especially like to hear hapa and Palmar commenting on it.
I'll be away for a few hours but I hope to see some more activity when I come back. Hapa is supposed to be her town read and Palmar her small scum read, why asking both to comment on said case? idk when I read this it felt really weird
My veredict: He has almost nothing to be held accountable of. A lot of "leaning", "semi" and non committed stuff. I mean, you can commit and back off something, but being so wishy-washy for so much is weird. The only thing to hold her accountable for is her read on prplhz - which has been discussed on the previous pages. Somehow, while skimming through her filter(I mostly ctrl+F'd each player) she was feeling very active - why is it that I have little memory of her? I *think* I remember her looking good/contributing, but nothing ever would pick my eye on his play. However, while reading now, there were some passages that felt so fucking weird. Like the post I quote above. As I said, I need time to sip this in. Her actions on day 1 were kinda consistent to a town player, but it's not impossible for a scum player to do it. The interactions above and what people say from now on *should* help me arrive somewhere. I'll keep my instance that she is not looking good at all.
Restates what I said in my case, in pretty format. This is pretty alright post but should have been posted before his vote. It seems like he realized that he didn't give a good enough reason for voting ange then writes this.
Step 2:
After saying Ange has a decent chance to flip scum, gets really fucking confident about Palmar being scum, if ange does anything bad to defend herself lynch her.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2012 00:00 Zephirdd wrote:Hmm I am way more confident on Palmar being scum than on Ange. I mean you guys brought some pretty good points etc yadda yadda, but fuck he is being useless. "Hurr that's a bad lynch". "Why?" "Fuck you thats why" It's simple. We lynch Palmar. Unless he refuses to show us solid arguments(which he IS capable of showing, as marv quoted earlier), then he dies. No point leaving him alive. think of this post: Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 22:32 Palmar wrote:On September 21 2012 22:26 marvellosity wrote:
Yes, you do need to, because otherwise Ange will get lynched. And then we will lynch you next for being useless.
Tell us how her actions around the lynch time can be viewed with a townie perspective. "No" simply isn't good enough. So let's say Ange gets lynched and flips town, are you going to try and lynch me for being useless. I don't think there's enough dumb players in this game. In fact, connecting an unrevealed lynch like that to me somehow is just reinforcing my belief that you should die today. You're basically already planning for the next move after Ange gets mislynched. Fuck that, I'm not allowing you to do that. ##Vote marvellosity@Restoftown: Here's a very simple reason for this vote. Marv just made a post where he's planning on how to proceed in the game without considering the results of his current plan right now, which is indicative of him having additional information that we don't have, ie already knowing how an Ange lynch will end. If this was to be posted from a townie perspective, it's waay too retarded and a huge confirmation-bias kind of post for town Palmar to make. ##unvote
##vote Palmar
Hes really confident about Palmar being scum. But the tone of this post just seems to be FUCK PALMAR lynch him hes useless. But he leaves him an out by saying, unless he shows us some solid arguements.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2012 05:43 Zephirdd wrote:
Well, from 06:00KST there is a high chance I'll be inactive until close to the deadline. Maybe I'll be able to read stuff and bring in a post or two, but nothing really big(like compiling a list of interactions like I did with ange). imp's post on ange is pretty incriminating. If Ange comes back and say ANYTHING emotional in order to defend herself, lynch her. Seriously I don't want to be caught into that trap again(prplhz did that once)
I'll probably be able to change my vote prior to the deadline so don't worry. I want Palmar dead still, because he isn't proving to be who he is. Him having a town read says jack shit when his scum reads are unexplained.
Wait what, we go from, Palmar defenitely scum, kill him to if Ange is emotional in her defense kill her. How does this switch of certainty make sense. Also, saying this makes no sense, shes obviously going to read it, and not be emotional in her defense.
Step 3:
The Hiro switch, then back to Palmar.
On September 23 2012 04:54 Zephirdd wrote:
we need five votes right? I'll switch into hiro. We have one hour.
##unvote
##vote HiroPro
If we don't get 5 votes until 20min, I'll go back to my main scum read -_-
While we're at it, why is Hiro scum again? I'm mainly sheeping at this point.
After being so fucking confident on Palmar why would he even consider switching to Hiro. He never once mentioned Hiro being scum in day 2. It seems like hes just giving himself an out to get off scum Palmar the first time he sees the chance. He even said, I don't even know why we are voting Hiro im just sheeping. Wouldn't town Zephridd as confident as he seemed in his Palmar post, once he knew their were 4 people available for vote switch, wouldn't he try to switch them onto to Palmar. His main scum read? He didn't even attempt to get people to switch onto Palmar. Yet in the end, he still gets town cred for lynching scum, and being on scum before the bandwagon was going to happen.
It was pretty obvious that this needed to be done as mafia as if Palmar didn't get lynched today, it was coming day 3 almost for sure.
On September 23 2012 06:21 Zephirdd wrote:
HERPADERPATOLDYOUSSO
tomorrow austin? pweeeease?
Trying to get a bit of extra town cred after the fact. When really Zeph just stated, hey I think palmar is scum without any push on it or trying to convince anyone. When really Marv tried to do all the push work on Palmars lynch.
Other than that, Zephridd has been primarily flying under the radar, and hasn't really pushed any of his reads. He made a day 1 case on hapa on wrong evidence and after trying to justify it, quickly fell off his read, then sheeped.
HiroHiro
Looking back on it, hiros switch on Palmar is really weird. But he wasn't even around and no one knew he was around. So he didn't have to switch on Palmar and doesn't really make sense from a mafia perspective. Also, I don't think he would do it for town cred if he is going to come out last minute with a post like this:
On September 23 2012 04:43 HiroPro wrote:
k, we lynch palmar?
kk
##Unvote
##Vote Palmar
How much town cred would a bus like this really give.
His latest SK stuff has been pretty ridiculous and making me rethink my thoughts. But other than being useless, I don't see as much scum motivation in his filter as zephridds. And zephridds just feels really odd.
As of now.
People I would like to lynch today in order:
Zephridd
Bluelightz
HiroPro
Ange
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On September 24 2012 23:12 marvellosity wrote:
You bring up some nice points on Zephirdd actually, and I will consider them at length tonight.
However, Hiro has gone into full troll mode and there is ZERO town motivation for this, whereas the scum motivation for shitting up the thread is obvious (the problem you have with Hiro Mementoss is that you haven't quite grasped Hiro has gone into full troll mode, and you feel he might just be horribly wrong or something).
Hiro dies today.
Alright, I just didn't think that Zephridd and Hiro could be scum together was the main reason why I thought hiro might be town because I was more confident in my read on Zephridd. Cause I didn't think Zephridd would go from one Bus to the other Bus.
I think IAMperfection has been given a free ride almost as much as Zephridd and would like some updated discussion regarding his alignment. I don't have time ATM, but I think we need to use today for more than vote hiro, incase hiro flips town.
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On September 24 2012 23:11 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 08:12 HiroPro wrote:On September 24 2012 08:10 iamperfection wrote:On September 24 2012 07:53 HiroPro wrote:
When I didn't post because you guys seemed to have caught two scum and I was good with that, you said I was scum cause I didn't care. Now I'm actually trying to help cause I've realized what you guys haven't and now you're calling me scum again for posting??? when you come back give a detailed read on me zeph ange and blue please. no clue what bluelightz is. ange is scum for reasons that people (austin) already said. zeph, I dunno, I don't read what he writes. @ memen. Why the hell would town hiropro make this post. He is tunneling on sk just so he dosent have to give any other reads.
Its definitively not townie, but you could pull up similar posts on a lot of townies, that are just lazy. And now hiro is in full tilt mode.
But there is a good chance he can flip scum fore sure.
Im just saying there is also a really good chance zephridd is scum.
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On September 24 2012 23:17 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 23:15 Mementoss wrote:On September 24 2012 23:12 marvellosity wrote:
You bring up some nice points on Zephirdd actually, and I will consider them at length tonight.
However, Hiro has gone into full troll mode and there is ZERO town motivation for this, whereas the scum motivation for shitting up the thread is obvious (the problem you have with Hiro Mementoss is that you haven't quite grasped Hiro has gone into full troll mode, and you feel he might just be horribly wrong or something).
Hiro dies today. Alright, I just didn't think that Zephridd and Hiro could be scum together was the main reason why I thought hiro might be town because I was more confident in my read on Zephridd. Cause I didn't think Zephridd would go from one Bus to the other Bus. I think IAMperfection has been given a free ride almost as much as Zephridd and would like some updated discussion regarding his alignment. I don't have time ATM, but I think we need to use today for more than vote hiro, incase hiro flips town. There's no reason NOT to go from bus to bus, if that was indeed the case. I still agree with Palmar/Hapa's assessment of iamp's play though and think he is townie. I also agree we need to use today for more than killing Hiro (and it is precisely his trolling that is trying to prevent discussion of other things), which is why I'm so keen to hear more from BL and Ange right now.
Good point, a bus is a bus, no reason not to go from bus to bus either way you are getting town cred while killing a teammate.
I will re-read IAM filter and those two assessments, knowing both alignments of Hapa and Palmar in mind.
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Im going to go ahead and vote HiroPro right now. Everyone is too convinced and I won't be able to push another candidate.
##Vote: HiroPro
I want Zephridd to make a case on who he thinks the last scum is.
Also I lol'd at reading bluelightz most recent posts.
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On September 25 2012 00:26 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 00:16 iamperfection wrote:
hey zeph if your not the final scum Who is? i think you left that out of your post. If you think hiro is scum like i do i think you should be thinking of the next step at this point. You stated that you dont like the ange or bluelightz and i think you somewhat said im town. Well i think we have run out of places to put the final scum......................... By process of elimination it'd be bluelightz. lynching two scum in a row gives us an edge so I think we can afford to take the chance, right? What I mean is that between you three bluelightz is the one worse looking. But then I fall down into the same situation as GSL mafia where I was sure bluelightz had to be scum. I think it comes down to ange vs bluelightz(I dont think you're scum anymore), and one feels wrong to lynch and the other is mislynched all the fucking time. We still have a SK to worry after too. You would be a nice SK candidate imo, but Ange as SK also makes a hell of sense. I'll reread filters on the afternoon, and I'll come back with more stuff k?
I doubt it, Unless SK has been holding all their KP I don't think there is a SK
On September 25 2012 00:26 HiroPro wrote:
Ok guys. I seriously don't understand what you're doing. I made a great case and none of you are actually reading it.
Let me put it this way to you. Serial killers have 1 KP. Mafia teams have 1 KP. How many people do you need to kill in order to get rid of the serial killer? Only 1. How many people do you need to kill in order to get rid of mafia? 2.
SO WHY ARE WE NOT KILLING THE SERIAL KILLER MARV!!!
I read your case and pretty much countered the whole thing without even thinking about it, its pretty obvious.
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EPT
