EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXVII - Page 2
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On September 19 2012 00:35 KillingTime wrote: I don't understand the point of FoS'ing on day 1 ##Fos KillingTime Nice contribution to the thread. Do you really think that's something worth talking about when there are already lots of other discussions going on? | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
I will give you a little bit of slack because I did lead you on by answering that it was in fact a serious question, so I can see why you as town would think that I was either giving an extremely terrible idea as town which isn't likely, or that I was saying something dumb as scum which I guess you could've seen as more likely. However seeing the lengths you went to to use that post against me, when it was obviously a really dumb idea regardless of my alignment, I still think you were attacking me with scum motives. In one of your recent posts you attacked someone for defending me, which makes sense if you are town and seeing debears post as a scum trying to protect their fellow scum partner. So overall, your position on my scum-o-meter is a little lower than it was but you're still up there. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On September 19 2012 01:56 KillingTime wrote: I like sonic's last post on Debears though - For now my feeling is that Debears is mafia trying to blend into the thread. Debears who do you think is scum? For now: ##Vote:debears Killing are you for real? You make a post devoid of content which I call you out for, then in your next post you actually start talking about current discussion but then you make a vote for someone based on a single sentence of justification? | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On September 19 2012 02:37 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: I don't really agree with your approach. I wanted to pressure you on the off chance it was serious. Pressuring you gave me the explanation that it was "scum bait", which still doesn't make sense to me. Pressuring someone can give you more information that might be more useful than the original one. And I still want you to explained your rationale behind your post being "scum bait". Ok. Every newbie game I've played in has started with tons and tons of talk about lurker policy, the term I used earlier for it was a "lurker policy circle-jerk." I didn't want this game to go down that path, so I needed to say something that would give people something to argue about instead of everyone just agreeing with each other about lurkers for the first half of D1. So I said something completely ridiculous that I thought should have been obvious to everyone that it wasn't a real suggestion...... obvious to everyone except scum, who are over eager to jump on anything in order to push a mislynch. Hence, "scum-bait." So yes, it was a serious question that I was hoping to get responses to, but it wasn't my personal choice for D1 lynch. A few posts after that I outlined my real D1 lynch ideas. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
About debears: I'll read his filter and point out what I think about it, but for now the thing that struck me as odd was the line: On September 18 2012 22:42 debears wrote:I think thrawn is town. Anyone with evidence pointing otherwise, please present. I don't see why he is making it such a huge goal for town to establish if I am 100% town or not. Seems a little too off topic from the whole scumhunting thing. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
I went through debear's filter and here's what I've got: People are jumping on him for defending me, under the reasoning that either A) he's mafia trying to make safe posts or B) he and I are both mafia and he's trying to defend me. B is the vibe I'm getting from kush and sonic. But what about option C) that he's town and talking about something that everyone else is talking about? Obviously I say B is dumb excpet from the perspective of sonic who had been accusing me most of the game, but I don't see any indicator that option A or option C is more likely. To me it looks like the people who are accusing him are doing so because they already thought I looked scummy, or because they are scum themselves pushing a mislynch. The thing in debear's filter I disagreed with was his agreement that kush is sk. I can see how it would be possible but I don't see any reason to think it's likely, especially since we don't even yet know if there's a sk or not. Debears what are your thoughts on kush beyond what you already said? In summary: His defense of me doesn't look more town-motivated or mafia-motivated, so I'm going with a null read on the whole "defending thrawn" situation. Pre Edit: just saw that he posted some stuff about rethos, so my current read on him is that he's done nothing that I see as scummy and he has participated in discussion and brought some original ideas into the mix. So overall I'm saying he's looking town. His defense of me was a little to lengthy and aggressive to be normal but I don't know why he'd do that as town or mafia. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On September 19 2012 04:54 rethos wrote: Debears post seems suspicious for reasons already mentioned. The real interesting part (for me) comes after this post: Until now thrawn2112 strikes me as a player that is willing to go after suspicious stuff (because of the whole SDM discussion). It seems to me though that debears's post does not seem suspicious to him. He seems actually biased imo which makes me think that there is some sort of alliance there. Also interesting is to point out stuff like He is pointing out minor stuff that he does not agree with to make it look like he is not biased. Little nitpicky stuff. He is also not expanding on the second point in his post. That seems to be his primary concern when he started looking into it. Why doesn't he explain what has come of that concern, did it get solved? How? If not why didn't he mention it in his second post as well to give a clear and full reading. Right now it seems that he is doing his best to defend him while still being able to back out if something goes wrong. @thrawn2112 what conclusion have you achieved regarding the last quote? ##FOS Debears ##FOS thrawn2112 It's odd but not odd enough to influence my read on him in either direction. Basically it this point it tells me nothing other than that it tells me nothing. Still going with town. You say I'm a player who is willing to go after suspicious stuff... well yeah, that's the point of the game. But then when I give a town read, all the sudden that automatically makes myself and that player a team? That's your prerogative but it's an extremely weak case. Is there anything other than that about me which you find suspicious? Because if not then that's a very weak FOS. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On September 19 2012 04:27 kushm4sta wrote: If I had to call a scum team right now it would be Thrawn debears drazak just because they are all defending each other at this point. The only I would be willing to lynch though is debears. Before you jump down my throat I know it's too early to call scum teams and this is pure speculation. Well that bolded part is just a straight up lie. I don't see how drazak fits into your theory... I was the first one to call drazak out on his unreasonably defensive post and I've never defended him. So once again, is the only reason you think I'm scum because of your debears association case? On September 19 2012 05:07 Sharrant wrote: At the same time, debears isn't really the most suspicious person to me, his defense of Thrawn could be scummy, or it might not be. It was weird, but not a strong tell either way in my opinion. However, there is getting to be a large web of people involved with debears either way. ##unvote Kushm4sta ##vote debears I do however think that it will be a distraction until it is resolved. THere's a good chance he flips scum, and that would reflect poorly on Thrawn, who up until this point I've been relatively sure he was town. I'm not convinced he's mafia, but I'm suspicious enough of him I'd like to get to the point where we can force a claim. Ok Sharrant that is a ridiculous vote. You start out saying "debears isn't really the most suspicious person to me" and say his defense of me "was weird, but not a strong tell either way in my opinion." Then you vote for him and say "there's a good chance he flips scum" and you're "not convinced he's mafia" after saying his defense of me was a null read. So, what exactly is your read on him and if you don't have a read then why are you voting for him? All I see is a bunch of "he may be scum" and "he is a null read." | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
He says that he thinks I am town and asks if anyone has evidence otherwise. So my interpretation of it is that he's aggressively trying to convince people that I'm town. So what would the motivations be behind that? There's the one that he's town trying to convince people he's right, and there's the possibility that he's scum and is "dickriding" like kush said. But I don't see either being more likely than the other. That's why it doesn't factor into my overall read on him. So in summary, it's weird, but gives me nothing to make a read off of. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On September 19 2012 05:51 kushm4sta wrote: @thrawn you say I made a straight up lie and that's not an accusation I take lightly. if anything it was an exaggeration and not a lie. I don't want to spend a lot of time discussing my scumteam theories, because while I think they help in looking for cases, they do not constitute a case. but I don't like being called a liar so here goes. drazak is connected by saying killing is more suspicious than debears. he says they can't both be mafia so therefore debears isn't mafia. That is the classic mafia defense..defending a teammate by attacking the attacker. and you have defended debears. So that was the basis for that comment. Is it a real case against you? no. Is it a lie though? also no. Uh, saying that drazak and I defended each other is a lie. In fact it's the exact opposite of the truth. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On September 19 2012 05:58 Sharrant wrote: That's a ridiculous vote? You pick choice words out to discredit what I said, and try to make it personal. I'm fairly convinced the two of you are mafia after that. You know who I think is most suspicious, that hasn't been a secret. This has been mentioned in every post that Kush is my number one target, but that's not going anywhere. I think you should re-read my post. Several times even. Yes, his defense of you wasn't particularly strong either way in and of itself, that's what I said. That's one moment of his play, and you jumped all over that. Yeah it is a ridiculous vote. After reading your post I had absolutely no idea what your read on debears was other than you want him lynched in order to try and make associative cases. And furthermore I don't even think associative cases are good, especially in D1. So to me that vote just seems completely disingenuous. On September 19 2012 05:58 Sharrant wrote:This is exactly why I voted debears. He was scummier to me than KillingTime, and the situation between those two had to be resolved. And look, here you come in and jump all over it. I never said he was a null read, not once yet you claim I did. I said I'm not convinced he's mafia, but I'm suspcious enough of him to the point where I'd like to force him to claim. Claim what exactly? On September 19 2012 05:58 Sharrant wrote:Do you see how different those things are? Of course you do, because you're not dumb, you're trying to buy yourself and him some room. I said he was suspicious because he's suspicious, I said I'm not convinced because I wouldn't bet my life savings that he's mafia. But I'm absolutely willing to vote for him. Voting for him did not mean I was ready to lynch him, as it stands I'd now be ready to lynch both of you. I was pretty sure he would flip mafia before, now I'm much more certain. You tried to bully me out of voting, because you didn't agree, yet have cast no votes yourself. In fact everyone has been pretty much sitting on their hands in that regard, townies shouldn't be so scared to use their tools to hunt mafia. Maybe I'm wrong and you and debears aren't mafia, but that "ridiculous vote" just got a pretty big scum slip in my eyes from you. Me calling you out on that vote has nothing to do with my read on debears, it's about how scummy your vote looks. I still say your vote was wishy washy. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On September 19 2012 06:18 Sharrant wrote: Where did I say I wanted him lynched? Please tell me. I said I wanted him forced to claim. I've said in every single post, that voting does not mean you want someone lynched. I also have said several times now, that I consider him suspicious. The fact that you keep ignoring this is baffling. Claim what? His role? Why would you possibly want someone to roleclaim D1? I'm not even sure if roleclaiming is what you're talking about. You say you find him suspicious but you say that while also talking about his defense of me was a null read.... which is the main reason people are suspicious of him in the first place. So what about him is suspicious and what is this "claim" you're trying to get him to make? | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On September 19 2012 06:26 rethos wrote: Here is were I do not understand your "meh" attitude. Why, if he is town, is he trying to convince people he is right? What does that do? How does that help? Is it just bad town play? Also why is he so convinced that you are town? Everything in his post tries to scream "omg this thrawn2112 guy is sooooo townie"? Why is he not suspicious of you? Confirming a townie is actually not that useful for anyone. How does that help us get scum? If he was trying to convince people that he's right about a scum, that makes sense. Town should push scum. Trying to convince people that he's right about his town read, when that said townie is not in any real danger seems extremely odd. Here's why him defending me doesn't have to be only a scummy move. At that time a huge amount of discussion was between sonic and I and we were going at each other pretty hard. You say I wasn't in any real danger which is true but the argument between sonic and I was the most talked about thing at the time. So debears goes into the thread and gives his read on the most popular topic at the moment, and his read happens to be that I'm town. It seems like a lot of people in here are of the mindset that if player a assigns player b a town read, then by golly player a must be scum. It is not bad at all to talk about town reads, it's only bad if that's the only thing you're doing which isn't what debears has done. And confirming a townie is extremely useful... it gives you one less target to be suspicious of at least for the time being. You keep going back to that quote from debears I brought up. It does strike me as overzealous but nothing beyond that, especially since he hasn't slacked on scumhunting. In regards to why would he make such a strong statement if he is town, well I do not know. Hence my null read on that particular statement. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
##Vote Sharrant | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On September 19 2012 06:33 rethos wrote: @thrawn2112 since the whole debears affair, your conflict with SDM seemed to have been left in the air. What is your current read about SDM? Do you have any other reads that the town might want to know about? If you look in my filter you notice that my last post about SDM is me still thinking he's scummy but with weaker convictions. Right now I am of the opinion that most of the conflict between us was a difference of opinion on how the game should be played and other similar misunderstandings. Also I had been calling out sharrant's posts and then sonic came in and his post about sharrant makes me wanna give sdm more townie points. So no I don't think he looks scummy anymore, he actually looks pretty townish. He's been really active and he's been pretty vocal about his reads which is most often a town trait. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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