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On September 05 2012 21:19 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 14:38 Bill Murray wrote:
No, Forumite. I don't see how you get that whatsoever. I see you as being scum with Mattchew for not jumping on voting him there. Isn´t that a different accusation? Before you accuse me of trying to get Matt to claim (meaning that you thought I was scum and Matt town), and now you say I´m scum together with Matt. To answer why I didn´t vote Matt early, at the time I was weighing on what Matt was and engaged him in conversation to get a better read, but until Palmar confirmed how Nosy Neighbors works, there wasn´t enough on Matt for me to throw down a vote. Matt was suspicious for claiming NN, but there were no proof that he was really lying at the time. Why should I vote someone who claims a town role unless I have a good reason to think he´s lying?
you're jumping to conclusions
you could be coaching him into a tracker claim as his scumbuddy (what i thought) because he fucked up, and you were trying to salvage the situation. You're playing dumb, here, which is another scum indicator.
I understand engaging in conversation to get a better read of the situation, but to me it felt like you weren't sure whether or not to bus him.
How did you not know how nosy neighbors worked? We've used this setup before.
Proof he was lying? see my last statement
.... he was fucking lying.
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On September 05 2012 21:19 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 20:51 Bill Murray wrote:
i dont care what matt's role is at this point
his original post is either a slip, or trolling There seems to be a lot of people who do care. Even if he isn't scum his lynch gives us by far the most info.
No i mean I don't care in that he's going to be swinging from the gallow's pole for his slip
if he didn't slip, he's an idiot, and he deserves to die this game
On September 06 2012 01:18 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 01:01 imallinson wrote:On September 06 2012 00:47 Toadesstern wrote:On September 06 2012 00:36 imallinson wrote:On September 05 2012 21:40 Z-BosoN wrote:
Allison, what kind of info do you think it gives? If he is scum it puts a lot of suspicion on the people who are still defending him, Ottox and Gravan are the ones I would be most suspicious of. If he isn't scum then it puts the people who were really pushing for his lynch under some suspicion Toad, BC possibly me and a couple others. Of course if he is scum BC is almost definitely town because there would be no reason to sell out your team mate so early on. I'd say it's the other way around lol. If Matt somehow manages to flip green or blue Ottox looks really bad. If Matt flips red, whatever, it's a null imo. I can see why you could think Matt flipping red wouldn't give info by assuming scum insta bussed Matt after Palmar's post. But how does him flipping town look bad for Ottox? well 24 out of 25 people agree that Matt needs to die. If that 1 guy telling us Matt is not mafia is right that looks awfully like someone having information he shouldn't have or how in the world is the guy supposed to come to the conclusion that Matt's got to be "not mafia" if everyone else agrees he is. - If Matt flips 3rd party Ottox needs to die 100% because he's a mafia who knew that Matt is "not Mafia" and tried to go for towncred.
- If Matt flips town Ottox probably needs to die because he's still most likely a mafia who thought he's getting towncred that way. I'm saying "probably" because it's possible that he really is the 1 out of 25 chance to be town but that's unlikely.
- If Matt flips mafia Ottox is either an incredible paranoid townie or an incredible ballsy mafia player. Both equally likely/unlikely (imo) and therefore the flip itself tells nothing so we have to resort to normal analysis.
I'd add in 3rd party he's null as well the same as he would be as town, don't you think?
not following your logic here... how would him being an assassin or a tracker be different?
He slipped, anyways, so it will be C.
On September 06 2012 01:28 Mattchew wrote:
i will flip the winning faction
if you are doing this as a gambit, i don't really mind. it's idiotic, but we got a ton of reads out of this, so it really may have helped the town overall.
On September 06 2012 01:32 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 01:18 Toadesstern wrote:On September 06 2012 01:01 imallinson wrote:On September 06 2012 00:47 Toadesstern wrote:On September 06 2012 00:36 imallinson wrote:On September 05 2012 21:40 Z-BosoN wrote:
Allison, what kind of info do you think it gives? If he is scum it puts a lot of suspicion on the people who are still defending him, Ottox and Gravan are the ones I would be most suspicious of. If he isn't scum then it puts the people who were really pushing for his lynch under some suspicion Toad, BC possibly me and a couple others. Of course if he is scum BC is almost definitely town because there would be no reason to sell out your team mate so early on. I'd say it's the other way around lol. If Matt somehow manages to flip green or blue Ottox looks really bad. If Matt flips red, whatever, it's a null imo. I can see why you could think Matt flipping red wouldn't give info by assuming scum insta bussed Matt after Palmar's post. But how does him flipping town look bad for Ottox? well 24 out of 25 people agree that Matt needs to die. If that 1 guy telling us Matt is not mafia is right that looks awfully like someone having information he shouldn't have or how in the world is the guy supposed to come to the conclusion that Matt's got to be "not mafia" if everyone else agrees he is. - If Matt flips 3rd party Ottox needs to die 100% because he's a mafia who knew that Matt is "not Mafia" and tried to go for towncred.
- If Matt flips town Ottox probably needs to die because he's still most likely a mafia who thought he's getting towncred that way. I'm saying "probably" because it's possible that he really is the 1 out of 25 chance to be town but that's unlikely.
- If Matt flips mafia Ottox is either an incredible paranoid townie or an incredible ballsy mafia player. Both equally likely/unlikely (imo) and therefore the flip itself tells nothing so we have to resort to normal analysis.
I disagree, this is mostly WIFOM. If matt flips mafia, he will look suspicious because of scum motivation. If he flips townie, then he can equally be a townie who actually thought that matt's claim made sense, a townie who thought that matt was trolling and thought you were a better target, a townie who just wants to feel special by disagreeing with everybody else, a scum trying to gain town cred, and whatever else I can't come up with. I don't agree with your "he needs to die 100%". On my point of view, if matt flips scum, he becomes more suspicious, because there is scum motivation in trying to defend a buddy. If matt flips town, Ox will still be as suspicious as he is right now.
I disagree with your disagreeing. HE NEEDS TO DIE 100%.
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On September 06 2012 01:47 Mattchew wrote:
god you are all so scummy... except BC of course.
On September 06 2012 01:47 Mattchew wrote:
and BM.. I repeat, BM is def town!
telling scum to kill me and BC... priceless.
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On September 06 2012 03:19 Toadesstern wrote:
lol thought the same
in his defense, he could be thinking "holy fuck, bm is actually sort of reading"
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On September 06 2012 03:46 strongandbig wrote:So I was reading some stuff over, and I really don't like this post, specifically the bolded part: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:22 DoYouHas wrote:
slOosh, my vote is neither stupid nor a throwaway. I have a friend who I consider a better player than me who has told me that getting BM out of the game quickly is always a good thing. It is meta as hell but it isn't stupid.
Toad's aggression towards you is completely null. You seem to be playing into your town meta so far, but I really won't know for sure until your first/second case. I dislike you voting a veteran based on meta. You don´t kill veterans, you wait for them to either 1) crush the scumteam or 2) get shot in the night. If they live too long without doing any good, THEN you maybe consider killing them based on meta. On September 04 2012 07:49 Miltonkram wrote:First things first, here is a list of games I've played in and links to my filters from those games. I start all my games with a list like this because it helps me improve. If I'm scum, I have to avoid playing closely to my scum meta. If I'm town, I put pressure on myself to make good reads. The list is spoilered so as not to take up space. + Show Spoiler +I've got to go to work... on Labor Day T.T I'll be back in several hours. Leave me something to come back to. Too long, didn´t read. I´m not usually basing my reads upon meta that the player himself provided. On September 04 2012 07:55 BlackMamba24 wrote:
My general stance is that every blue should ultimately do what they want. The environment of this game should not be about confirming blues and then doing what they say. Just because someone is innocent does not make them right in their convictions or accusations so it isn't of too much help really except for process of elimination.
If a town plan arises I'm not gonna be a part of it but I advice blue players to use their own judgment. Never lynch someone just because they wouldn't claim to the town leader or whatever, that's asinine, asiten, asieleven, asitwelve, etc.
Don't bother asking me for my reads because I will never post a list of reads and I hate it when other people post "reads". Thanks. What do you mean with the bolded part? It doesn´t make sense to me. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? We should be killing people we think are scum, no matter the reason. It might be harder to catch a good player with meta arguments, but "veteran" doesn't neccessarily mean "good player" and there are people who have metas that are worth analyzing. I especially don't like this post because it comes from someone who, while not a "vet" in the same sense that BC/BM/BM are, is still definitely in the top third or quarter of players in this game in terms of experience. Seems a little self-serving.
where this regards me (you put bc/bm/bm... what did you mean there?) I noticed this ... jeez my play as town is so bad. anyways, i have seen this as suspicious too. it is just another reason i've wanted to flip Doyouhas.
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@Hapa, in relation to your "case" on Ottoxlol -
Who is more likely to be picking fights, mafia, or town? Why?
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On September 06 2012 06:58 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:54 Bill Murray wrote:On September 06 2012 03:46 strongandbig wrote:So I was reading some stuff over, and I really don't like this post, specifically the bolded part: On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:22 DoYouHas wrote:
slOosh, my vote is neither stupid nor a throwaway. I have a friend who I consider a better player than me who has told me that getting BM out of the game quickly is always a good thing. It is meta as hell but it isn't stupid.
Toad's aggression towards you is completely null. You seem to be playing into your town meta so far, but I really won't know for sure until your first/second case. I dislike you voting a veteran based on meta. You don´t kill veterans, you wait for them to either 1) crush the scumteam or 2) get shot in the night. If they live too long without doing any good, THEN you maybe consider killing them based on meta. On September 04 2012 07:49 Miltonkram wrote:First things first, here is a list of games I've played in and links to my filters from those games. I start all my games with a list like this because it helps me improve. If I'm scum, I have to avoid playing closely to my scum meta. If I'm town, I put pressure on myself to make good reads. The list is spoilered so as not to take up space. + Show Spoiler +I've got to go to work... on Labor Day T.T I'll be back in several hours. Leave me something to come back to. Too long, didn´t read. I´m not usually basing my reads upon meta that the player himself provided. On September 04 2012 07:55 BlackMamba24 wrote:
My general stance is that every blue should ultimately do what they want. The environment of this game should not be about confirming blues and then doing what they say. Just because someone is innocent does not make them right in their convictions or accusations so it isn't of too much help really except for process of elimination.
If a town plan arises I'm not gonna be a part of it but I advice blue players to use their own judgment. Never lynch someone just because they wouldn't claim to the town leader or whatever, that's asinine, asiten, asieleven, asitwelve, etc.
Don't bother asking me for my reads because I will never post a list of reads and I hate it when other people post "reads". Thanks. What do you mean with the bolded part? It doesn´t make sense to me. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? We should be killing people we think are scum, no matter the reason. It might be harder to catch a good player with meta arguments, but "veteran" doesn't neccessarily mean "good player" and there are people who have metas that are worth analyzing. I especially don't like this post because it comes from someone who, while not a "vet" in the same sense that BC/BM/BM are, is still definitely in the top third or quarter of players in this game in terms of experience. Seems a little self-serving. where this regards me (you put bc/bm/bm... what did you mean there?) I noticed this ... jeez my play as town is so bad. anyways, i have seen this as suspicious too. it is just another reason i've wanted to flip Doyouhas. I'm actually just waiting for Foru to get in here and see him rage about that part. I'd say he's top#2 or top#3 skillwise lol.
I don't think so. I found a tell he has imo. I've got Forumite as easily caught scum on my mental list
Mattchew
Doyouhas
Forumite
removing Hapahauli for his questioning of Milton
not sure where i'd want to lynch at slot 4 now... perhaps Ottoxlol... feed the troll to the masses as opposed to feeding him
excellent vig shot to add to the list with Maverick
Where's Dr.H been? He's way more active than this, usually.
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Ottox you care to make a top 3 scumread like I have? sorry to say you need vigged, but it'd be better if you would stop posting, or actually.. you know... do some work by reading filters and making logical cases ...wow this looks like coaching. I see... I see... maybe I should ease up on my suspicion of Forumite.
Scum could easily just be playing the lurker game this game, but if that's the case, let 'em sit back while players like BC and Toad get confirmed.
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Austinmcc, what is your read on the Ottoxlol situation? His theories are over the top, right? What does that show about his alignment? Why?
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On September 05 2012 05:58 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite I don't get this, please explain
Gladly. Forumite is ready to accept the claim if the town does, but he is leaving himself wiggleroom to bus. it is a tell in that he even said "WHY DID YOU DO THIS?" he's mad matt did it. Why would he have reason to be mad if they're not scum together?
The fact you're defending forumite for this by questioning me makes you look bad Shady Sands.
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On September 05 2012 06:00 Shady Sands wrote:
Quite busy and at work--can someone give me a quick summary of stances on the whole mattchew clusterfuck? (eg who pressured who, and when)
wow, check this, too
this kid is definitely fishing
im going to be voting him tomorrow
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On September 06 2012 07:07 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:57 Bill Murray wrote:
@Hapa, in relation to your "case" on Ottoxlol -
Who is more likely to be picking fights, mafia, or town? Why? I think that's a bad way to approach the question, since a lot of it depends on individual playstyle and context as opposed to "likelihood." Picking fights alone isn't mafia or town - Toadsstern was picking fights early in the game, but that was more to generate discussion in my opinion. In the case of Ottoxlol, he's picking fights, not to generate discussion, but to be generally trolly and avoid pursuing his scumreads.
you're not implying, but outright saying he has scumreads
wouldn't, he as scum, have a scumlist as opposed to scumreads?
Sorry if you consider this semantics
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On September 06 2012 07:11 Hapahauli wrote:
Wait. What the hell happened to Shady anyway? He's usually much more involved in the thread as town, and now that Normal Mini III is over, he should have the time to play.
um... why are you parroting me? you're scum on my list again just for this post
Mattchew
ShadySands
Doyouhas
Forumite
Hapahauli
MiltonKram
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maybe substitute the latter 2 for BC and/or a lurker(s)... top 2 are like 100% i want to lynch
bottom 4 are more meh
not saying i'm suspicious of BC - this looks like his town game - but he is a good actor.
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Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head.
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On September 06 2012 07:17 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:13 Bill Murray wrote:On September 06 2012 07:11 Hapahauli wrote:
Wait. What the hell happened to Shady anyway? He's usually much more involved in the thread as town, and now that Normal Mini III is over, he should have the time to play. um... why are you parroting me? you're scum on my list again just for this post ... Says the guy who parroted MiltonKram's case on me? So from that list, you don't see Ottoxlol as suspicious. Why not?
I didn't parrot anything. I said "whoah, that's coaching"
Answer my question.
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Hapahauli, you're so uninvested emotionally that it makes me feel like you're nervous about something.... like you said... sincerity!
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On September 06 2012 07:19 Z-BosoN wrote:Uh, bill, aren't you forgetting someone? For someone who said: You sure quickly forgot him when you were making your little list...
mattchew is on the top of my list to die. you're confused.
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On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:06 Bill Murray wrote:
Austinmcc, what is your read on the Ottoxlol situation? His theories are over the top, right? What does that show about his alignment? Why? Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains. It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this. Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this: - Matt got caught
- Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was
- Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was
- A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier
- So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot
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On September 06 2012 07:23 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:20 Bill Murray wrote:On September 06 2012 07:19 Z-BosoN wrote:Uh, bill, aren't you forgetting someone? For someone who said: I disagree with your disagreeing. HE NEEDS TO DIE 100%. You sure quickly forgot him when you were making your little list... mattchew is on the top of my list to die. you're confused. No you That quote was about oxtrot. If you don't remember, or if you misinterpreted it, please read again.
well i feel like ottoxlol is being a fool
theres my stance on him
take it and run, son
On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:17 Bill Murray wrote:
Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. Null. Deal with it. His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list
so is gravan
you openly coached him
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EPT
