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On September 08 2012 23:17 Toadesstern wrote:
oh god, still mixed up... you know what I am talking about right?^^
BM can't be the target of the suicide bomber because if that'd be the case BKE would be dead by now as well, if his claim is legit.
Therefore BC was targeted by the suicide bomber according to BKE and BM got shot by a single mafia hit, which is incredible weird.
I thought Watcher wasn't affected by suicide bomber?
Anyhow, if your interpretation of the rules is true, that just makes BKE's claim even less likely to be true.
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On September 08 2012 23:42 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 23:37 Shady Sands wrote:On September 08 2012 23:17 Toadesstern wrote:
oh god, still mixed up... you know what I am talking about right?^^
BM can't be the target of the suicide bomber because if that'd be the case BKE would be dead by now as well, if his claim is legit.
Therefore BC was targeted by the suicide bomber according to BKE and BM got shot by a single mafia hit, which is incredible weird. I thought Watcher wasn't affected by suicide bomber? Anyhow, if your interpretation of the rules is true, that just makes BKE's claim even less likely to be true. Why should a watcher not be affected by the suicide bomber? Show nested quote +OP
You are Crazy. Blow shit up man, that's what you do. You one night in the game suicide into another player. That player will die, regardless of protection, and everyone who visits that player that night will be killed unless protected. You can in addition perform one KP on behalf of the mafia every night, including the night you suicide. everyone who visits that player reads to me as everyone. Or was there something I'm missing?
I just reread the rules. I am stupid. For some reason I thought tracker/watcher meant that the person did not actually "visit" them, only watched or followed them. Sorry
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On September 08 2012 23:46 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 23:41 austinmcc wrote:On September 08 2012 23:15 Toadesstern wrote:
Supposedly mafia only used 1KP yesterday. BC got killed by suicidebomber. I hiiiiighly doubt ottox was a mafiahit and think he was hit by town, which leaves us with DrH. But According to BKE only one guy visited him and he did not get doublestacked. Neither do we have a claim from someone else who got protected or shot n1. So one shot is missing
This. GK as suicide bomber could still deliver a kill. And if you're scum and you lose mattchew D1, you're suiciding GK N1, you're 100% gonna use him as a shooter because he can't get caught delivering a kill, he's gonna be dead. We're basically narrowed down to BM24 being double stacked and BKE lying OR BM24 single shot, BKE watcher, and a medic save. Unless mafia shot Ottoxlol, which seems...unlikely.
On September 08 2012 23:29 Shady Sands wrote:Other than BKE, my other main read is GRush. It starts here: On September 06 2012 07:50 grush57 wrote:
K.
Medics on Toad and BC and BM.
Vigi kill in the pool of scummy people/ scummylurkers.
Ex: Ottox, Maverick, Do you has.
This comes before GK suicide bombs into BC/BM. To me it almost sounds like he was trying to draw a blue into the bombing. I'm pretty sure Grush wasn't the only one doing that. Toad did it at one point (or multiple points), everyone and their mother discussed vigi shots on half the town. Morning laziness means I'm not finding those quotes for you, but I'm almost certain there were a decent number of similar posts, but less concise. If a medic had saved someone (scenario would be: BC got suicide bombed, BM got shot with 1KP, someone else got shot and protected for 1KP) we would have had some guy claiming the hit though, wouldn't we? Any yes you're correct, I said something along those lines as well. I said I want medics on BC+myself.
Got it. I just found it strange that both of the N1 kills were listed in his post requesting medic protection, and part of the N1 body count was delivered via suicide bomber.
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What do you guys think of the rest of the GRush case?
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On September 08 2012 23:49 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 23:46 Toadesstern wrote:
If a medic had saved someone (scenario would be: BC got suicide bombed, BM got shot with 1KP, someone else got shot and protected for 1KP) we would have had some guy claiming the hit though, wouldn't we? I hope not. No offense to BKE, but if the medic claims then it's a bad deal. Medic backs up BKE's claim; we don't mislynch BKE. We get an almost confirmed town in the medic's target, scum gets a medic and a watcher identified. We could still mislynch today even after all that. It's a bad trade. If we had a medic save, from a medic who possibly got an intelligent protect N1 and might get some more, guy should stay quiet. Scum comes out ahead in that trade, because they get lots of blue info whereas town just goes from a definite mislynch to a maybe mislynch with the next target.
Doesn't this also mean that scum could read anyone who defends BKE heavily as a potential medic?
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On September 09 2012 00:03 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 23:56 Toadesstern wrote:On September 08 2012 23:49 austinmcc wrote:On September 08 2012 23:46 Toadesstern wrote:
If a medic had saved someone (scenario would be: BC got suicide bombed, BM got shot with 1KP, someone else got shot and protected for 1KP) we would have had some guy claiming the hit though, wouldn't we? I hope not. No offense to BKE, but if the medic claims then it's a bad deal. Medic backs up BKE's claim; we don't mislynch BKE. We get an almost confirmed town in the medic's target, scum gets a medic and a watcher identified. We could still mislynch today even after all that. It's a bad trade. If we had a medic save, from a medic who possibly got an intelligent protect N1 and might get some more, guy should stay quiet. Scum comes out ahead in that trade, because they get lots of blue info whereas town just goes from a definite mislynch to a maybe mislynch with the next target. Not the medic is supposed to claim. The guy who got hit should claim being hit, if there is someone like that to begin with. That doesn't reveal the medic. It gives an almost confirmed townie for the medics point of view and a decent town read for everyone else judging the guy. There's no reason not to claim being hit as a townie, therefore I'd say there was noone being hit and we've got another screw up lol. Gotcha. OP so sparse  We had no claims of being roleblocked, even though we might have jailers and might have roleblockers. And no claimed hit. There's some chance that the person doesn't get notified of a hit, although that seems out of the ordinary. But we're missing any RB info, regardless of whether we're also missing a hit if BKE isn't scum.
Are you guys sure a townie who is hit but medic saved will know about it?
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On September 09 2012 00:07 Toadesstern wrote:
oh that's right. Could be there's no notifications at all. But if that's the case the medic wouldn't even know himself and as you mentioned that really would be out of the ordinary.
However, I still consider it weird that BM24 was suicide bombed and not BC according to BKE.
Agreed. That claim does not make BKE look any less scummy imo.
What do you think about GRush?
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On September 09 2012 00:13 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 00:11 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 00:07 Toadesstern wrote:
oh that's right. Could be there's no notifications at all. But if that's the case the medic wouldn't even know himself and as you mentioned that really would be out of the ordinary.
However, I still consider it weird that BM24 was suicide bombed and not BC according to BKE. Agreed. That claim does not make BKE look any less scummy imo. What do you think about GRush? Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:52 Toadesstern wrote:
grush is mafia. BKE's probably; if BKE's not mafia it's probably foru?
But I had almost no time today as friends came over so I'll have to reread things tomorrow. Haven't even read what happened the last 4 hours so far except for an incredible fast read. hasn't changed that much.
Beautiful. No matter which way BKE flips let's lynch/vigi that other bastard too.
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Also, I'm pretty surprised that some people went into the thread loudly talking about lynching lurkers, but never pointed a finger at me in spite of the fact that I was playing so lurky and so far off my meta.
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On September 09 2012 00:18 Palmar wrote:
I've had a few questions about this.
No one is notified of anything they don't absolutely need to know in this game. This is how I generally run my games.
examples:
You will not be told if you're roleblocked.
You will not be told if you got saved.
You will not be told that you made a save.
Thanks.
Ergo, we have no way to verify BKE's claim...
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On September 09 2012 00:31 grush57 wrote:
When I was scum in LVI this scenario happened to BKE. However, BKE is the best candidate right now.
Why?
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On September 09 2012 00:50 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 00:26 austinmcc wrote:On September 09 2012 00:21 Shady Sands wrote:
Thanks.
Ergo, we have no way to verify BKE's claim... Right. Either he's a watcher OR he chose a fakeclaim so bad it could be disproven pretty much by flips alone. And it wasn't a pressure claim, he was getting called out all yesterday, then claimed while nobody was doing anything. I'm currently believing the claim since it seems like a giant risk to take when you're already down 2. Heck, why go with a terrible fake claim when you could name anything?
BM, where you at? We discussed scum having/not having some sort of leader earlier. I'd like to hear your updated thoughts. Ottoxlol flipped town, so it's not a case where mattchew/ottox/gravan all messed up and looked scummy D1. 2 vets died, so they're not options as some sort of mafia general, commanding the troops. Now we've got this BKE claim. Do you believe that claim? Are there players you could see saying, "hey you, go make a terrible fakeclaim that's so bad people will have trouble thinking it's from scum"? I don't see BKE, if scum, going that route, because you don't really gain anything compared to a better fake claim. I have to be honest, Im just laying it out. In XIII Newbie, I was One-Shot and didn't claim and everyone said I should've. I don't want to make the same mistake. I know me getting GK back is useless, but I need town to know what you guys will be lynching. Medic should not claim definetly(if we have one and they acted), else we both die. I picked BC primarily for the reason that Matt was his first pick and he was using the lynch to look around for other scum. He was speaking with really solid logic and had a few scum reads already. DrH was under a bit of fire, so I wasn't sure if scum was going to let that sit and develop. I didn't think Toad was active enough to be killed that night, but he had by then moved to my town list due to his response to my case. Just to make it clear I think Shady and Mav are scum
Er what lol? Where's your case on me? Or are you just sheeping GRush?
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On September 09 2012 00:41 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 00:36 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 00:31 grush57 wrote:
When I was scum in LVI this scenario happened to BKE. However, BKE is the best candidate right now. Why? Shady Sands is scum people. Doesn't hop on me till Toad makes a case, ASKS other people's opinion on it and ask if its good, and now he asks me why. WHY U SAY. BECASUE.......................................................................................................
Actually I didn't even know Toad's case on you existed, else why would I ask him what he thought of you?
And of course you need to explain why, since what you're saying is that meta suggests we shouldn't lynch BKE but somehow he is your best candidate. Those are two mutually contradictory sentences.
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On September 09 2012 01:13 DarthPunk wrote:Wait. There is more. When I just posted in the Voting thread it seems as If he has unvoted BKE and moved to Shady despite posting that BKE was the best candidate. The reasoning? Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 00:41 grush57 wrote:On September 09 2012 00:36 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 00:31 grush57 wrote:
When I was scum in LVI this scenario happened to BKE. However, BKE is the best candidate right now. Why? Shady Sands is scum people. Doesn't hop on me till Toad makes a case, ASKS other people's opinion on it and ask if its good, and now he asks me why. WHY U SAY. BECASUE....................................................................................................... This kid is suspicious as hell. BKE. Please read my case on grush and give me your thoughts. I am delaying bed for a bit because I think lynching a blue claim is a huge mistake and would like to find and consolidate another candidate.
I'd be willing to hop onto a GRush wagon.
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On September 09 2012 01:25 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 01:23 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 01:13 DarthPunk wrote:Wait. There is more. When I just posted in the Voting thread it seems as If he has unvoted BKE and moved to Shady despite posting that BKE was the best candidate. The reasoning? On September 09 2012 00:41 grush57 wrote:On September 09 2012 00:36 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 00:31 grush57 wrote:
When I was scum in LVI this scenario happened to BKE. However, BKE is the best candidate right now. Why? Shady Sands is scum people. Doesn't hop on me till Toad makes a case, ASKS other people's opinion on it and ask if its good, and now he asks me why. WHY U SAY. BECASUE....................................................................................................... This kid is suspicious as hell. BKE. Please read my case on grush and give me your thoughts. I am delaying bed for a bit because I think lynching a blue claim is a huge mistake and would like to find and consolidate another candidate. I'd be willing to hop onto a GRush wagon. LOL scummy shady. I don't know if that post will help or hinder this. 
Not sure why that's scummy. I made my PoV on GRush pretty clear before you posted your case.
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On September 09 2012 01:35 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 01:32 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 01:27 Toadesstern wrote:On September 09 2012 01:21 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 01:15 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm thinking about this claim and I've got to say I don't like lynching BKE right now although I said otherwise an hour ago before thinking this trough.
It just really doesn't make sense right now. The only thing I dislike about BKE's claim is that he claims BM24 was suicide bombed and not BC because I consider BC more likely to be the target, but BM24 being the target isn't out of the ordinary that much.
On top of that with Palmars statement it really could be he's telling the truth and if something like:
Suicide vs BM24
1KP vs BC
1KP vs other vet (myself, maybe Foru or whoever else) or someone being really active (not going to call names here for obvious reasons) who got protected isn't that unlikely at all.
The thing about late switches is they almost always turn out bad because they're not thought through and mafia has an easy time to manipulate. I'm pretty sure that either Shady or Grush is mafia right now and I could see both flipping red (though not both), so we could go for either of those two but as mentioned, those things really go wrong all the time... It Is also bad to potentially mislynch a watcher. I would rather mislynch a VT then a Watcher. If that is the worst consequence from mafia manipulation. So be it. Of course it's bad to lynch a watcher but we can't consider that a reason to not lynch him and have to take both lynching a VT and a Watcher as equally bad. If we don't we're giving mafia the easiest time ever to just get in here "LOL I'm a mad hatter" and everyone insta unvotes because of something that can't be proven at all. That being said I still dislike the BKE lynch right now and would prefere a grush lynch. Hmm I hadn't thought of that. In my last game The scummiest player claimed vig after a vig shot. He was so scummy no one believed him and he was lynched, In the obs QT Marv said that lynching blue claims was something newbies loved to do. I understand your point about all scum making easy claims. But this wagon smells. Grush smells. I skimmed through the thread and alarm bells started blaring in my head. well yeah I agree. I really don't like the situation we're in right now. Lynching BKE sounds really stupid right now and I don't like Grush's attitude at all. I'm going to vote for Grush. I've still got about an hour left before I have to go so let's see what we can do and whether or not it's possible. ##vote Grush
Alright, let's get this wagon going.
##Vote Grush
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On September 09 2012 01:38 austinmcc wrote:
Scratch that. Lynching Toad would require way more work and way more discussion than I think we're going to get at this point in time. I will put together some stuff, post it this night. I don't think we've got enough time left this day to push a difficult lynch, so we need to look at ... easier options? ... that sounds kind of bad, but hopefully people can understand what I mean. We have limited time to get new candidates and discuss them, and trying to get a lynch on certain targets will be much more difficult than getting a lynch on targets like Grush. Who's seriously not mafia.
Why do you think grush is not mafia?
brb going to mickey d's, haven't smoked in such a long time, getting serious munchies
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On September 09 2012 02:02 grush57 wrote:
Anyways, I know who I'll be moving my BOMB on tonight if I survive
Love and Kisses
<3
Are you claiming mad hatter?
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On September 09 2012 02:05 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 02:04 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Fuck I just broke a rule. T_T
@Grush I had that case against Shady b4 you. How is that sheeping? IDK MAN IDK I GOTTA MAKE UP SHIT TO SAVE MYSELF
Yeah, after Chez in Normal Mini III, I've just about had it to here with these muthafuckin trolls in this muthafuckin game. Seriously town, he's relying on trolling to defend himself. What. The. Fuck?
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On September 09 2012 01:50 Gravan wrote:
I still have reservations about this switch. According to what I can gather from this thread, Grush always acts like an idiot. This gets him mislynched often. We're lynching him, instead of BKE (who, until his meager roleclaim and sudden throwing out of cases) was under intense suspicion and getting wagon'd.
So far as I can tell, the logic goes roughly as follows:
BKE is very suspicious, but his blue claim isn't out of the question.
Lynching a blue would be very detrimental to the town.
Grush is suspicious (alternatively idiotic and anti-town, depending on who is talking) and non-contributive besides.
Lynching Grush is, at worse, a mislynch (we won't miss his discussions as a townie) and at best a mafia lynch.
This is all just a little sudden for me. What happened to those strong suspicions regarding BKE's earlier flip-flopping? Can one of you vote-switchers explain to me how that behaviour is now negated/lessened because of his role-claim?
I'm switching because of the possibility that it might be true. A Watcher is a very powerful role to have, and only grows more powerful as the game progresses. BKE can be relatively easily outed/counter-claimed later on if need be. He's not a good lynch right now.
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EPT
