Newbie Mini Mafia XXIV - Page 2

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 01:54 GMT

#270

On August 15 2012 19:16 goodkarma wrote:
Expect a meaningful case writeup on who I suspect to be likely scum sometime tomorrow.

I am still eagerly awaiting this writeup GK.

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 02:07 GMT

#272

Re-reading the thread something Thrawn stated seemed incredibly suspicious.

On August 16 2012 05:27 thrawn2112 wrote:
mkfuba07, after reading my post do you agree with my claim that YH is town? If not, why not?

Why are you actively trying to prove that someone is a town? rather than find the scum? what possible town motivation is behind this?

It seems to me like you are trying to convince the one person at that time whom had still expressed doubts on Your harry's alignment to believe that he was town and not scum. This is not pro-town activity. Spending time trying to convince a particular person of a players green status day one is scum behaviour.

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 06:05 GMT

#291

Hey guys. been at uni since I last posted. When I get home I'l read through and post.

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 14:33 GMT

#320

Hi Guys just got back and have several pages to get through. Well done everyone on maintaining an active discussion. I'll post soon.

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 14:35 GMT

#321

Also when is the deadline? and could I get a vote count please <3

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 15:28 GMT

#325

OK I am reading through the thread and taking notes. I will probably just turn these notes into my post.

Your Harry:

On August 16 2012 11:47 YourHarry wrote:
If I am scum and knew that they were green, you could accept my sudden change in my point of view regarding Solar's alignment. Would scum Harry decide to compromise what seems to be a semi-promising mislynch in Solar (assuming Solar is not Harry's scum partner) to risk being suspected, by trying to protect who scum Harry thought was a mason? Then continue to sacrifice being suspicious by not revealing his initial read even despite continuous pressure, until it became obvious that Harry was wrong about his mason reads?

Or is this more likely the course of action from a town Harry?

This defense of your day 1 posting behaviour is WIFOM and incredibly difficult to make sense of. I don't know if it is your logic that I have a problem with or the way you are explaining yourself, but I am far from satisfied with this explanation.

You were convinced enough to vote for solar sail. And then based on a lacklustre interpretation of GK's post, changed your mind completely. Aside from the fact that I do not see from that solitary post that GK is either mason or scum as you do, your posting seems to be based entirely on a mind blowingly large assumption. What I further find suspicious with you is the MARKED DIFFERENCE in your posting as soon as you were found to be suspicious. And that you resorted almost entirely to WIFOM in your defense.

The Part of your story that bothers me the most is this.

You were 'convinced' solarsail was scum. Then after one innocuous post from GK. View your number one scum read and GK as masoned. To change your mind this drastically that quickly and to leap to the assumption of a mason pair rather than scum without question is very strange. There are several more natural assumptions to make in that situation especially when you were 'convinced' Solar was scum:

-Goodkarma simply believed Solar was bad town. This does not rule out solar as scum, and is by far the most likely scenario.

-Goodkarma was defending her scum buddy. I do not believe this to be the case but I find this to be a far more likely assumption when the person she was 'defending' was clear scum in your mind.
(you use WIFOM to eliminate this)

-Goodkarma and solar are masoned. a huge assumption based on the content of GK's post.
The only way this scenario jumps out at you as the immediate answer is if YOU KNEW BOTH SOLAR AND GOODKARMA'S ALIGNMENT.

The slip is that you behaved in a way that is natural for someone whom knows these players alignments. And have attempted to explain away the more natural assumptions that someone in the dark would take with WIFOM.

You even admit that your 'stated' reasoning behind the entire fiasco is WIFOM and barely believe it yourself.

On August 16 2012 13:47 YourHarry wrote:
actually, upon re-evaluation, I can accept the possibility that GK was indeed not sure about Solar's alignment but was indeed worried that we may tunnel on a player that he somehow thought was a town. Still, the alternative is also possible. It could have been a scum slip that GK is now fabricating the explanations for. Either way, since this is WIFOM, I want to partially retract my case against GK.

and yet you were so sure and seemed incredulous when questioned.

Your day one posting has been ridiculous, you have flip flopped your vote around, Defended your self with WIFOM, encouraged others to confrim you as town to your doubters, been incredibly wishy-washy and your explanation is a stretch at best, and a scumslip at worst.

I will continue to watch you closely.

In order to avoid an incredible wall of text I think I will just post this and then continue on reading the thread.

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 16:05 GMT

#331

still trawling through the thread. It seems to be a lot more difficult to read than XXII.

On August 16 2012 19:42 Shady Sands wrote:
I am going to say this again very clearly:

## Vote Thrawn2112, ## FoS Ochrow

Everyone just do it.

Yeah shady. Any Town Cred you had just went flying out the window. To be honest I am having trouble following the narrative of the thread right now (perhaps I am just tired.) but this is a very anti-town post.

Your case on thrawn2112 was OK. But attempting to stifle any further discussion and demanding everyone to sheep your reads (which is ironic because this is one of the things you are accusing these people of doing.) Is just flat out ridiculous.

I want some clarity on what your case is.

But the crux of the matter is this correct?

On August 16 2012 20:07 Shady Sands wrote:

But the issue with Archrun is you didn't compare him at all to the other lurkers. Nope. You just went ahead and joined in on Ochrow's accusation of Archrun without even offering any of your own analysis to back it up. Who were those other 3 people who had posted 4 times or less? Can you tell me who you checked?

And of course you can't defend yourself from the blatant double-teaming you and Ochrow are doing. Anyone who has been in the thread in the past day can tell.

You may have already clarified your case and I have not yet got to it. If so could you just make a brief summary of your case.

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 16:38 GMT

#336

I still have 2 pages to go and it is 2.30 am so I will jet through them and may post shorter summaries however;

I have been reading through Thrawn2112's filter. And something jumped out at me.

thrawn2112

Thrawn throws a FOS on YH.

On August 15 2012 20:54 thrawn2112 wrote:
I also put a FoS on yourharry.

Show nested quote +

On August 15 2012 20:19 DarthPunk wrote:

On August 15 2012 19:58 Shady Sands wrote:

On August 15 2012 19:32 DarthPunk wrote:

On August 15 2012 19:19 Shady Sands wrote:

On August 15 2012 18:45 DarthPunk wrote:

On August 15 2012 18:32 Shady Sands wrote:

I see basically two lines of accusation here.

1) I'm asking a ton of questions and making it look like I'm contributing without actually contributing anything.

2) My two cases on Thrawn and Solar are weak.

In response to 1): First, since it's only 12 hours into D1, there's not much material to work off of. That's why most of the posts have consisted of throwing around questions rather than 400 word case posts. Second, evoking responses, at this stage of the game, is critical. Without a solid base of accusations and counter-accusations in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day.

Evoking responses is important, but so is providing analysis and content which you have barely done. Without a solid base of analysis and content (especially that which is not a near fraudulent interpretation of something near meaningless) in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day.
There is not much material to work off yet you have encouraged everyone to bandwagon on the back of your interpretation of one post and solars subsequent reactions. (which are far more suspicious than any case on him you have provided.)

On August 15 2012 18:32 Shady Sands wrote:
In response to 2): I'm not certain how you can say your own case on me is any stronger than the cases I've put out on Thrawn and Solar. You seem to imply that since I called out Thrawn for being WIFOM/fluffy, and according to you, I've made more "fluff" posts than he has, then I'm more suspicious. But the case on Thrawn didn't rest on being WIFOM, it rested on the fact that Thrawn led off with an extremely long and odd rant on the SK; the case on Solar likewise didn't rest on that sort of accusation either--rather, it rested on the fact that he was actively being hostile to the town rather than defending himself AND his first post on what the scum was thinking was extremely suspicious.

So my case on you is equally as weak as your cases? Yet you are presenting mine as invalid and yours as valid. The crucial difference between us is I have actually posted substantial cases based on the analysis of large amounts of posts in your filter and have followed the case up with additional content. You twisted near meaningless posts made at the very beginning of day one and have made a huge leap of assumption to even provide anything at all. And have followed that up with nothing further aside from fluff. My case is not nearly as weak as yours.

The cases you made based on those posts were a gigantic stretch at best. Tunnelling these people without providing additional insight or content is harmful to town.

The bigger issue, Darth, is why you are holding me responsible for a lack of analysis and content so far when I've been trying the hardest to get people to commit to reads on people and post more cases. Also, how is this post below:

On August 15 2012 12:01 Shady Sands wrote:

On August 15 2012 11:43 thrawn2112 wrote:
Shady, can you explain your reasoning for initially jumping all over solar? It could be that you, as mafia, know he is town and are taking advantage of solar's emotional reactions by drawing them out even further and immediately sidetracking everyone onto solar's case.

Still waiting for several people to post up... I'm gonna take a break for an hour or so and I will join back in once more people have posted.

Basically I read this:

Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out.

And it didn't make sense to me. Why would Solar make this post if he's town? It's not pro-town to post on which style a scum might or might be playing. Then I read his post in context of the first post that stutters made, and it seemed like Solar is trying to soft accuse stutters--because stutters post was short, and didn't hold any information that disagrees with the general direction (as telling people to read a guide is about as plain as someone can get.)

The second possibility here, aside from soft-accusing stutters, is that Solar is trying to look participatory. He states this himself, later. Why would a townie try to look participatory from his first post onwards? No one has accused Solar of anything yet, so why the desire to look like he's contributing (as opposed to actually saying something of substance instead of guessing at what the scum must be feeling?)

Both these possibilities lead to a scum Solarsail.

## FoS Solarsail

A lack of content and analysis? I note that you didn't include it in your long train of quotes on me, perhaps because it doesn't fit the picture you're trying to paint. So I ask you: How is the above case a bad case? How does it not provide content or analysis?

If you can't find answers to those questions, then I'd respectfully ask you to start applying your own strict standards to YourHarry, who, by your logic, should be a far bigger scum than I am.

I have mentioned that case several times. It is largely based on wild and convoluted assumptions in order to lead to anything meaningful. I have said previously you are either more guilty of the things you are accusing him of or are making assumptions based on a largely innocuous post.

The not all, but the Overwhelming Majority of your posts are fluff. and the Analysis you do present is bad or a stretch. Which begs the question. Why would you be making such absurd stretches in your 'analysis' unless you are serving an agenda?

I will look at Your Harry also. I have only been back for a short while and need to reread the thread. However I find it unusual that you are now, after suspicion has been cast upon you, casting aside your earlier cases without a clear or satisfying reason and trying to shift attention onto Your Harry.

Again, you're saying my analysis is bad or a stretch without stating why they're bad. What's wrong with the case I've posted above? What are the holes? Until you can answer those questions, your case on me doesn't help the town.

Furthermore, I am not casting aside those cases without a clear or satisfying reason. You're framing me for things I haven't done, which is anti-town. I explicitly stated that I'm moving to YH because I find his behavior even scummier than Thrawn's or Solar's. Furthermore, I stated why I think pushing on Thrawn or Solar when they're not in the thread and can't respond won't generate the sort of discussion that ends up helping the town.

I am not framing you for things you haven't done. Why such a melodramatic Defense? You case was bad, because it was based on an assumption and the convoluted scum motivation you presented alongside that assumption. It was a stretch because the assumption you made was a stretch. Your cases bring very little to the table, and unlike XXII you are not confirmed town and cannot get away with such questionable arguments.

You explicitly stated you were dropping the cases on them for now. Why not just move on without saying anything?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With that being said. I strongly encourage everyone to read Your Harry's Filter It is so ridiculous that I feel bad I didn't jump on it sooner.

@YOUR HARRY acting like you have some sort of outside information to make a PANTS ON HEAD series of posts is very suspicious and unless you have a rock solid excuse for what your filter currently consists of I have a very large;
FoS## Your Harry

On August 15 2012 13:20 YourHarry wrote:
Shady. I guess there is a small chance that I could be wrong. But if I am right, it is not a good idea to reveal this information. Let's move on for now.

It is 100% a good idea to reveal this information right now.

It was this post that most confused me out of all of harry's.

Show nested quote +

After re-reading this thread, the 'right ball park' comment immediately caused me to start suspecting harry. It just doesnt seem like something somebody who is town would want to say. It looks like you are trying hint at something without ever saying it, but wouldn't a town player assume that any hints they drop intended for town players might also be picked up on by scum? What ball park are we talking about and why did you say mkfuba's question was a good question?

Show nested quote +

These posts struck me as a little strange. YH is showing an eagerness, in fact the most eagerness out of anyone, to push a conclusion towards whatever reads (of solar and myself) have been presented, reads which so far people have found weak and/or unsubstantiated.

Thrawn2112 Sheeps Shady and I on YH after the momentum against him had well and truly begun. But note the wording and lack of content or a clear statement in his conclusion. Incredibly wishy washy and adds nothing to the discussion.

His very next post

On August 16 2012 05:27 thrawn2112 wrote:
Concerning the YH topic:

3 possibilities immediately come to mind:

One, that YH is being honest about him thinking that solar and gk are masons. That will explain basically all of his scummy sounding posting earlier in the game. Two, that he and solar are masons. This would explain his strong conviction that solar is town, and could also explain why he posted like he had information to hide. Three, YH and solar, or maybe just YH is scum. This would also account for the cryptic way he was posting. The only part that I'm having trouble with, is that 4 minutes after voting for me for being suspicious of shady, he unvoted me and changed his vote to solar. 21 minutes later is when according to him, he came up with his 'solar as mason' theory and unvoted again. So if YH is scum and solar is scum, why would YH ever vote for solar in the first place? It could be a sneaky manipulation but i doubt that is the case. This makes me believe that no, YH and solar cannot BOTH be scum. YH's quick changing of votes is what I'm currently looking at to see if I can make any reads as far as YH is concerned.

At this point I think YH's alliance hinges on whether or not you believe his story about suspecting solar and gk of being masons. At one point in the game I was willing to indulge the thought that YH and solar were masons based off a weak read I was making, (the extra information YH was hinting at) so it is easy for me to believe that YH did the same. YH, for now I believe your story and do not think either you or solar are scum.

mkfuba07, after reading my post do you agree with my claim that YH is town? If not, why not?

Immediately after his FoS on your harry. He comes up with several WIFOM scenarios to potentially explain YH's behaviour and then reaches the conclusion that not only is your harry no longer suspicious. He is town. What are these conclusions based off? ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING. He then proceeds to immediately push his town read of Your Harry. And when I call him on it? He explains that confirming town is pro-town behaviour. And your harry backs him.
Bear in mind there is absolutely nothing in his post which explain his sudden change of heart.

From FoS to pushing him as 'confirmed town' off the back of nothing whatsoever, directed at someone who had just put a FoS on Your Harry. This is not the same as confirming a townie and yet this is what it was represented as.

Thrawn2112 actively tried to confirm Your Harry's Townieness. Which in the context of the thread and his FoSto town read is incredibly suspicious.

On August 16 2012 11:07 DarthPunk wrote:
Re-reading the thread something Thrawn stated seemed incredibly suspicious.

Show nested quote +

On August 16 2012 11:31 thrawn2112 wrote:
@darthpunk
Also it seems to me that confirming somebody is town isn't a waste of time, it will give you new information yo0D

So my case on you is ill have a narrower list of who potential scum could be. While it isn't the most important part of the game it isn't useless like you have described.

He says that confirming a town whom he had just backflipped off for no reason is not a waste of time. Your Harry chips in that establishing himself as town is 'actually advantageous'.

On August 16 2012 13:00 YourHarry wrote:

Establishing someone as confirmed townie is actually very advantageous for town. Masons, for example, are nothing but confirmed townies to each other and can be very powerful, especially in the late game. It is also another reason why scums prefer to NK confirmed townies.

But, of course, it is difficult to establish to 100% confirm townies, just like it is difficult to establish confirmed scums. So I agree that, in the beginning of the game, we should focus more on establishing scum read. But if obvious town read sticks out, we should share it with others. It is scum motivation to do the opposite - to limit as many town reads as possible.

There was no town motivation for establishing Your Harry as town. But there was a scum motivation for protecting one of their own and establishing a scum as town. There was no explanation for Thrawn2112's backflip from FoS to dead set town read in the space of one post.

Vote## Thrawn2112

FoS Your Harry

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 16:58 GMT

#339

On August 17 2012 00:00 thrawn2112 wrote:

Whatever happened to your campaign to get everyone posting their previous game filters? Based on what you have done since demanding filters from everyone, I don't see a pro-town motive for your request. Your reasoning in asking for them was that having filters can be very useful in getting reads on people's posts that are made in specific circumstances, such as what a player usually acts like when accused of being scum. After asking for everyone's filters, you haven't even brought the subject back up. What was the point of asking in the first place if you are not going to follow through with analysis? If you wanted to view the filters for your own sole benefit, it would have been way easier for you to just find the filters yourself. If you wanted the group to view the filters so that the town can make better reads, then why haven't you provided any analysis of a player's posting within this game to their posting within previous games? I can't figure out why you asked from them in the first place, which leads me to the conclusion that your filter requests were fluff.

##Vote Shady Sands

This is just... I don't even know. The most hard to read piece of Irony in the thread. If you have a reason to vote Shady why is half your post such garbage? I have made far better arguments against shady and I haven't even voted for him. This is not a case, nor a read, and is certainly not enough to be the none OMGUS part of the post in which you vote for shady. This does nothing to aid in the scumhunting that is occuring. This is Fluff. It is distracting us from being able to clearly read the cases for and against you.

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 16:59 GMT

#341

On August 17 2012 01:45 marvellosity wrote:

Show nested quote +

Please format your votes correctly or THEY WILL NOT COUNT.

Keirathi even posted about it on this page >.<

Sorry.

##Vote: Thrawn2112

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 17:16 GMT

#342

About the Post timing Shady is talking about.

I think this is a null tell. The important thing to pay attention to is the content or lack of content in a post.

I am off to bed now. I will set an alarm and be back in a few hours.

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 17:18 GMT

#343

On August 16 2012 11:31 thrawn2112 wrote:
@darthpunk

Also it seems to me that confirming somebody is town isn't a waste of time, it will give you new information you didn't have before and you will have a narrower list of who potential scum could be. While it isn't the most important part of the game it isn't useless like you have described.

EBWOP:
One of the Quotes in my case seems to have been garbled in the formatting stage. This is the correct Quote.

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 17:45 GMT

#346

On August 17 2012 02:21 thrawn2112 wrote:
As I said earlier, my vote against shady is not just a OMGUS reaction. Throuought our argument, shady kept bringing up the same accusations which to my knowledge I gave reasonable and believable responses to.

It is not an OMGUS reaction? yet your arguments against shady are OMGUS. 'I am voting for him because he doesn't believe me' is OMGUS and is not a reason to vote for someone.

Why do you feel the need to preface that your reposes are believable?

On August 17 2012 02:21 thrawn2112 wrote:
From my knowledge (which is that I am the only one I know 100% is a townie) is that shady is either trying to set me up because he is scum or he is a town player making some of the worst arguments possible.

Why do you feel the need to point out you are 100% townie? So you believe shady to be scum or a townie who is making bad arguments against you. That is not a good enough reason to vote for him. The fact is that if you read through the thread there are far better cases against shady than what you are presenting.

On August 17 2012 02:21 thrawn2112 wrote:
I find it more likely that shady is scum because I really can't see how somebody could make such a bad argument.
He even went so far as to say that it should be completely obvious to everyone else in the thread that my actions and ochrow's were coordinated. This claim was based on ochrow and I both putting a FOS on archrun within 30 minutes of each other. This is a nonsensical accusation to make. If I was scum with ochrow and trying to pin suspicion on archrun, I hope that my attempt would be way more subtle than what shady accused me of doing. I also pointed out that beyond the posting time and our both fos'ing the same player, he has given no evidence to support his claim. Anyone could easily use the same type of 'argument' against him, as he and archrun voted against me within 3 minutes of each other. By Shady's standards of evidence, the case for he and archrun being scum is even stronger than his case for ochrow and I being scum. I am not making a case that shady and archrun are both scum for those reasons, nor am I trying to prove that BOTH ochrow and I are innocent. It is just an example to show how truly unfounded shady's case was.

I agree that the post timing should not be used as a read of some sort. However there are far more valid cases against you (my own for example) and the post timing was only one argument, and in no way constitutes Shady's entire case against you like you are implying.

On August 17 2012 02:21 thrawn2112 wrote:
The filter posts were a result of me thinking shady is scum because of how he was presenting his argument against me, so I went back through his filter and that was the first thing that leapt out at me as additional evidence of him being scum.

The filter posts were nothing. You have brought back policy talk in the past and are doing so again. All this does is distract from the real cases and confuse the thread. This is not cause for a scum read in my opinion and shady has done far more suspicious things than ask people to post their filters day 1.

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 17:47 GMT

#347

OK i really need to sleep Be back before deadline,

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 22:36 GMT

#389

On August 17 2012 02:58 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

The last post mkfuba made before I posted that quote, was this:

Show nested quote +

On August 16 2012 02:14 mkfuba07 wrote:
So I've just quickly read through what I missed while asleep. I have a few appointments to get to, so this will be my only post until later this evening.

My read on Shady right now is slight townie. He was the driving force behind most of the first day so far, and has been sticking his neck out the entire time. I get null reads from the cases he presented, because though I disagree with the evidence for them, they promoted discussion when there was very little to discuss. He gets a townie point because of this discussion promotion and activity.
I waited to post my reads on YourHarry because I wanted to avoid an OMGUS reaction, but most of my feelings on him had been posted by GK. I really wanted to see his reasoning for dropping the votes on Solar. Since he's posted that now, I'm a strange point in my read on him. In response to his vague comments I started to believe that he had just read his role PM (since he delayed reading them in both D1s of XXIII) and realized that Solar was his Mason partner. That seems like a legitimate reason to hint at it without outright saying it, though it will make everyone suspicious of him. What I find most suspicious is YH's willingness to believe in a Solar/GK mason team with so little evidence of it. The post he quoted from GK "defending" Solar was a mirror of my views on Solar - that he's playing in a way that will distract us from true scumhunting for the rest of D1. I don't think GK's phrasing implied greater knowledge than he should have had as a vanilla townie, as I came to the same conclusion. As a result, I see YH's strong townie read on Solar as YH behaving as if he has more information than he should. Since he isn't mason, that only leaves scum.

FoS YourHarry

Solar's posts have me leaning towards a townie read for him. Pointing out how thrawn's defense of him may be considered scummy seems like a very town thing to do. He's not taking someone's defense of him as evidence of townie-ness, but being suspicious of his motives. I'm not sure I agree with his method of building discussion (in reference to his earliest, trolly play), since his first few posts could cast him in a suspicious light for the rest of the game. But if it was his plan to do so to build discussion in the first place, then he knew the risks and took them for the team.

Mkfuba puts a FoS on YH, with his reasoning being that YH was acting as if he had more information than anyone else concerning his read on solar and gk.

I then posted:

Show nested quote +

On August 16 2012 05:27 thrawn2112 wrote:
Policy?

A few people started talking about policy at the beginning and we never actually came to an agreement on that because of solar's trolling. Can we say whether or not we are going to FOS lurkers? Of course this doesnt not mean an automatic lynching, but it will help to keep everyone posting so that we can all get better reads. My vote is that yes, this policy should be put in effect, even though we have almost wasted the opportunity to do so.

Concerning the YH topic:

3 possibilities immediately come to mind:

One, that YH is being honest about him thinking that solar and gk are masons. That will explain basically all of his scummy sounding posting earlier in the game. Two, that he and solar are masons. This would explain his strong conviction that solar is town, and could also explain why he posted like he had information to hide. Three, YH and solar, or maybe just YH is scum. This would also account for the cryptic way he was posting. The only part that I'm having trouble with, is that 4 minutes after voting for me for being suspicious of shady, he unvoted me and changed his vote to solar. 21 minutes later is when according to him, he came up with his 'solar as mason' theory and unvoted again. So if YH is scum and solar is scum, why would YH ever vote for solar in the first place? It could be a sneaky manipulation but i doubt that is the case. This makes me believe that no, YH and solar cannot BOTH be scum. YH's quick changing of votes is what I'm currently looking at to see if I can make any reads as far as YH is concerned.

At this point I think YH's alliance hinges on whether or not you believe his story about suspecting solar and gk of being masons. At one point in the game I was willing to indulge the thought that YH and solar were masons based off a weak read I was making, (the extra information YH was hinting at) so it is easy for me to believe that YH did the same. YH, for now I believe your story and do not think either you or solar are scum.

Solarsail

Just to confirm what I'm thinking, do we all trust solarsail's account of his first few posts, that he was trolling to get responses? I'm assuming we all do? Myself, I believe him. I don't think a player who posts like he initially posted would be able to post how he is posting now unless they were trolling. Initially he was the most scummy player, but at that point in the game less than half the players had even posted. As time went on I began to think that no he's not scum, but he's a town player who just doesn't understand what the tone of this game is supposed to be. Honestly solar you were posting like you had just come in from a sc2 tournament thread, it was very hard to know what to make of that. IMO you actually caused more harm than if you would have allowed the discussion to remain on policy talk. The first few pages of posting were very chaotic and full of people making baseless accusations set by the tone of how you chose to play the game. Yes, I do think that myself and maybe some other people are able to make reads off the situation you created, but I think that those reads could have come regardless of your trolling.

mkfuba07, after reading my post do you agree with my claim that YH is town? If not, why not?

My first paragraph under the YH topic is a little difficult for me to understand right now. I'll admit that I was in no way giving a clear picture of my train of thought. As I posted the night before I made my posts about YH, I was not sober that night. If you are curious about this then go check what other threads I post in as it might cause you to believe that I was likely to be telling the truth about not being sober. Despite not being sober I did lurk in the thread for 3 or 4 hours before sobering up after a quick nap. I take notes whenever I read a new post, and my scattered train of thought after my nap was probably brought on by taking notes in a scattered frame of mind before the nap.

The 2nd paragraph contained the majority of my thought process concerning YH. Some people thought YH was scum because he was posting as if he had additional information, but I saw a different perspective. YH said he acted the way he did because he made a self-admittedly weak read into gk's post. I then said that I was previously nursing a weak read that he and solar were either masons or scum. I had at that point abandoned my weak read, which caused me to be trusting of YH's claim that he also made a weak read about potential mason status of solar. I had made the same mistake as YH claimed to make, which is why I was inclined to believe YH.

However, me making a weak read does not confirm that YH was telling the truth in admitting to making a weak read. I was willing to accept that YH was town, but since mkfuba had recently expression sucpicion of YH I wanted to know if my argument was sufficient to convince mkfuba, and if it wasn't then I would obviously want to know the reason why.

I guess the lessons to be learned are to give reasoning behind my posts, and uh .... don't read the mafia forum if I'm not sober.

So your defense to my entire case against you was that you were drunk? Not good enough. The justification that you provide for backflipping so swiftly from a FOS on YH to promoting him as town in your very next post seems weak.
Because you have also had a feeling that two players were masoned, YH is not only cleared, but a dead set townie? You have said that you asked mkfuba07 if he had come around to your point of view to gain insight on his position. But he had JUST POSTED a case on YH in which his position was quite clear.
You then change your mind and say that you wanted to ask mkfuba07 because you wish to know if your arguements were sufficient to convince him.
Why are you so concerned with convincing a third party who had just cast suspicion onto Your Harry that he was innocent? This is incredibly suspicious
You had not at that time, and still have not, presented reasons or arguements on how you suddenly changed your view on YH so much that you actively tried to persuade others to view YH as green
The only reason or arguement to explain this incredibly suspicious behaviour is that you were drunk, don't really follow your own reasoning and the only real justification you have provided is that you were slightly inclined to believe Your Harry thought GK and Solar were masoned.

This is the basis for your Switch from FOS to persuading others to view YH as town; and in that context talking about confirming townies does nothing to alleviate the suspicions raised in my case against you. That you speak about being drunk and brush off not providing reasoning with your switch like it is nothing furthers my suspicion towards you.

On Shady Sands

His case against Thrawn2112 was average at best. I don't think it was Suspicious enough to lynch him off though. And I certainly fail to see the scum game he is playing if he is scum. Why would a scum take on as much risk as Shady has to secure a day 1 mislynch? He has an incredible amount of exposure depending on flips. And will not likely last all that long if he is scum and his posting continues as it has been.
He is still one of the people that I am suspicious of but I DO NOT feel as that he is a good day one lynch.

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 22:36 GMT

#390

On August 17 2012 06:21 thrawn2112 wrote:
A lot of your post was VERY difficult to follow. Not because of logic... I had to re-read sentences a few times because I couldn't figure out what you were trying to say. This has nothing to do with my read on you.... lol I'm honestly just having a hard time following your post.

I am having a similar problem with your posts

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 22:58 GMT

#395

I am really uncomfortable with how fast a counter wagon on the most active player in the game sprung up. I urge everyone to read MY CASE on thrawn.

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 23:09 GMT

#399

So. We are currently headed towards a no lynch.

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 23:19 GMT

#406

On August 17 2012 08:10 YourHarry wrote:
My strong town read on Thrawn is confirmed by Archrun's recent post stating that exactly Thrawn or Shady are scum. I don't know how he arrived at this conclusion. While it is unlikely that they are bussing each other as scums, how to exclude the possibility that they are both towns?

I would like recruit people to support a lynch against Archrun. Archrun flipping scum likely means that Thrawn and Shady (Thrawn, especially) are probably town.

You are now Guilty of the exact same thing as Archun except you have worded it without looking blatantly suspicious.
That makes you more suspicious to me than Archun's post did.
I don't see why you have a 'strong town read' on thrawn, I don't think any one in their right mind could have a strong town read on him at this point in time. I could see why you don't think he is the best lynch candidate, but strong town read? give me a break.

In no way at all does Archun's post confirm Thrawn as town. Jesus Christ. First thrawn does it for you and now you are doing it for thrawn.

DarthPunk

Australia10854 Posts

August 16 2012 23:20 GMT

#407

On August 17 2012 08:15 Solarsail wrote:

Show nested quote +

I would be prepared to swap to Archrun, but I don't want to unvote quite yet in case Thrawn is accidentally lynched, since the Archrun route implies Thrawn is town.

How does it Imply Thrawn is town?

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