Mad Men Mafia - Page 58

Well this morning I actually was pretty close to giving up. Just the fact that everyone else is letting him get away with these posts he made after returning from a day of afk, ocnveniently not having to commit to a vote an then posting what he did. And both of his 95 percent scumreads flipping town if you noticed that(although I agreed with the prplhz lynch as well ).
I do , however agree with you that we cannot really go after him right now. Not with this town.

Honestly, there are so many people I have issues with.

Could you first of all give me an outside perspective on VE, especially his case against me? It is completely terrible, but can you see it from a town perspective? As you and me pointed out, there was nothing in the pms that clearly indicates that VE thought bugs was town. His play this game is just weird to me, I really do not know what ot make of him.

Would you mind giving me an outside perspective on something?
Before the lynch, Scum could be certain that prplhz would get lynched. And let's just assume for a second that WBG is scum.
This makes me really weary of the "cases" that popped up vs me(jingles and broodking especially). They are in my opinion a cop out. As scum you do not want to go vs WBG in that situation ( again I am just assuming he is scum and even if he were town, from a scum perspective it actually would make sense to let him live, even if that is a bit ballsy.)
And with prplhz basicly guaranteed to get lynched no matter what, it is benificial to avoid the bandwagon if possible.

The reason I ask this is because I got extremely upset and need some other perspective :D

I will need to reread quite a few people and will then give my thoughts on that.

Original Message From strongandbig:
hey communication is great but i'm at work so TL PMs is best I can do until I leave
then I can skype IM, i'll pm you my skype info when i get back


what about the thread, who do you think we should kill? Like I said in my big post, I'm giving wbg the day off because it seems like doing otherwise would just screw up the thread.

I think talismania's post about VE is pretty decent but I'm worried because it seems to focus so much on ve's interactions with talismania. I also just get a scum feeling from talismania, but I'm not sure why.

I think we maybe should kill Glasse or BioSC today, they seem pretty scummy to me and I'm a little hesitant to kill off another vet unless I see a really good case; otoh, scum vets are more dangerous than scum noobs and I'm never really sure how to resolve that conundrum.

Hide nested quote -
Original Message From Erandorr:
any way you would like to communicate (if at all :D )


I thought we were gonna wait a day or two on wbg

Vote VE, there's a chance the thread might get behind it.

Original Message From Erandorr:
yup. ve is scum too. At least we get that information for free.

Hide nested quote -
Original Message From strongandbig:
finals could be now if he has summer classes

Original Message From Erandorr:
i think ve and wbg are scumbuddies right now. I honestly dont give a fuck anymore. look at the logs between them. VE said he would shout at wbg in a pm. look at the lgos reflecting that... Ve said he is convinced wbg is town from pms. from what?
It all doesnt make fucking sense.
Mason thing makes only really sense as a mafia gambit, even though i dont think it would be good.

also random question but maybe important. when are finals in the US universities? WBg claimed he has finals soon , and he probably does, but its still something i would like to check since im german and he can tell me everyhting also he has not mentioned it anywhere else

Original Message From strongandbig:
okay so tell me if this makes sense

(1) grush makes no sense at all as a scum target. There's no way he was a blue snipe - seriously, what in his filter could make him look blue.

(2) therefore unless someone claims a hit, scum probably double stacked sloosh

(3) why would they do that given that wbg and VE are in the game (and if both of them are scum then double imba)?

(4) because they were worried a medic would be on him

-> why would they think that?

-> talismania wifomed them into it

-> talismania is town

Original Message From Erandorr:
yup. honestly, nothing more to say than "yeah"

Original Message From strongandbig:
Original Message From Erandorr:
Yeah, look at Jingles last post in the thread.
Its incorrect, I agreed with lynching prplhz but I in no way lead the lynch. I maintained that I wanted to lynch wbg. Filtering I can still see him being retarded townie, but it honestly becomes less likely with every post.

Really bad players actually do think that you have to defend yourself against cases that I would see on the same level as "he ate a bagel for breakfast, thus he must be scum"
I could still see him being that bad.

God this game is frustrating


Is it just me or is this logic from synystyr's most recent post really stupid?

On August 05 2012 10:27 talismania wrote:
Medics protect sloosh tonight. If I were mafia I would kill him. He's always Captain America with the town, gathering votes together, keeping things on track. He's active and has generally solid analysis. Plus he's on me, so him dying makes it easy to push my lynch, and then boom two active townies are down the drain. So protect him.


He pushes this action to confuse town. If Sloosh dies in the night, it gives Talis tons of town cred because he said that medics should protect Sloosh. A little reverse psychology action too by claiming he would kill Sloosh if he were mafia. A hit on Sloosh appears to be be only negative for him and thus making him look innocent by association.

fine with me

Original Message From strongandbig:
yeah I don't usually get back from work until like 9

Hide nested quote -
Original Message From Toadesstern:
Ok am back. I'm Toadesstern on Skype.
What's your ID?

If you're working right now just hit me once you've got time. I've got nothing left to do today other than nerding so I've got nonstop time.

Original Message From strongandbig:
okay! I actually meant during the night phase of the game, not during the actual night time of the day :/

Original Message From Toadesstern:
just a little heads-up: I'm at my parents place right now, my mom told me that she's going to be home around 15:30 CEST (+02:00) and once she's here we're going to my sisters, so I'm probably not available during 15:30 CEST (+02:00) and something like 18:00 CEST (+02:00).

After that I should be completly free, I'm done with my exams and could stay up really long because I'm just relaxing now anyways

Original Message From strongandbig:
can we talk during the night?

Original Message From Toadesstern:
Okay a few things:

1) Erandorr masoned you as well? Do me a favor and tell him "Copy the last line I wrote in skype yesterday, give that line to s&b, and he pm's it to me. No translation, just the straight up german line I wrote". Or even better, give him my german version of this to make sure he knows you're not faking him either, just copy & paste
+ Show Spoiler [german] +
Why? Just to be sure this is no fake
If you're able to do that, that would actually boost my confidence in a lot of my reads lol. So yeah I have no problem with you telling him I masoned you. I however don't think you should tell the thread just yet.

2) Yeah I agree on Talis. There's some things I don't like about him but pushing those weird plans is not alignment indicating at all. The amount of "effort" he's putting in this game however made me reconsider a bit. He wasn't that much talkactive when we both played mafia in PYPoison. He's strange alright but he usually enjoys the "trying to understand the game" way more than "trying to figure out mafia"either way, so that's normal.

3) I disagree with VE however. I just don't think they've got two mafia vets in a game with 2 KP for 3 (with our mislynch 4) nights straight when we only got like 4, 5 or 6 in the game. The number of vets depends on who the smurf is but that's besides the point. For me it's EITHER Eran OR VE OR WBG but not multiple people out of that list. I got a townread on Eran and my scumread on WBG is stronger than the various different reads I got on VE.
I get why people think he's scummy, but again I'm assuming there's only one mafia vet which makes him town to me right now.

4) Yeah I get what you're talking about when talking about the more unknows players we could lynch. Just feels like lynching into an unknown entitiy that's build up by a bunch of faceless guys. They're all somewhat scummy but not really that much simplpy because there's so little to analyze. Feels like randomly choosing a lurker if we want to lynch into that entity.
Original Message From strongandbig:
I don't think trying to lynch wbg today is a good idea for town atmosphere. Like I said yesterday, if he doesn't start catching scum soon I will try to lynch him again day 3.

Erandorr also mason'd me. I think that is a null tell because if he's really frustrated town he would mason the person who agrees with him to try and figure out the opposition; if he's scum he might mason me since I agree with him and am more likely to be persuaded he's town.

I plan on also telling erandorr you mason'ed me, just fyi, but idk about if it matters to tell the thread.

Anyway I think erandorr's town for a few reasons. (1) if he's scum and wbg is town, his wbg fight makes no sense - who in their right mind would go and say "okay my plan as scum this game is to get into a pissing contest with the best town player bwahaha!" (2) if they're both scum it makes no sense, it brought so much attention onto them and would have to be the most terrible scum play ever; plus erandorr seems very honest about lynching wbg so i don't think they're scum buddies. (3) if wbg is town then his town read on erandorr can probably be trusted since it would have been such an easy omgus to make.

That said, he's not one of my top four or five town reads by any means and I'm definitely willing to consider cases against him.

I think VE is scum. Talismania's case on him was pretty much omgus but it was a very convincing omgus; ve's case on talismania is so terrible that it really does seem like cherry picking. I also think anyone who's played a game or two with talismania should know that his trying to get setup information and character name claims isn't alignment indicative, he always pushes some kind of plan like that as any alignment.

I also think VE is scum beacuse for him to say he got a town read on wbg from their pms makes no sense at all to me. I just can't see it. He also didn't "go yell at wbg in pms" like he told the thread he was. In fact he barely talked to wbg about wbg's outing him at all.

I don't know whether that makes wbg scum also, since ve could just be buddying him to try and get him to think he's town. I still think wbg is scum until proven otherwise, but not because of a VE-wbg connection theory.

As for other people we could lynch, there's a frustrating number of people who are both lurking and doing so scummily. Broodking is clearly reading the thread but not posting, Glasse keeps popping in with pointless tidbits but not atually contributing to the thread, and I still think BioSC was scummy around the prplhz vote and hasn't cleared himself.

The problem is that none of those three look much more scummy to me than the other, and I think the odds are small that they're all scum. That makes it dangerous to try and lynch one of them imo, since it'll be easy for the actual scum team to say "let's lynch that scummy lurker instead of this one" and get the heat off of the one who actually is scum. So I kind of agree with whoever it was (you or tali I think) who said you need a lot of data to have a good read of players like that. I kinda think we should be lynching VE today, but I could go for one of those scummy lurkers (nb: different from just general lurkers, there are some lurky noobs in this game that I really think are town) if someone presented a case that really differentiated them. The thing is if there's just a bandwagon on a random one I fear that it would be unlikely to hit scum.

Original Message From Toadesstern:
want to give me a basic idea of your thoughts right now?
Not sure if I'm confident to lynch into VE / WBG / Eran today, so I'd rather lynch someone else.

Original Message From strongandbig:
hhhokay. Why me?

I can only do TL PMs when I'm at work but I can try and skype IM or something tonight if you want, or TL PMs are good also

Original Message From Toadesstern:
Sup, we're masoned.

[9:28:41 PM] Toad: hey
[9:28:49 PM] Strongandbig: hey
[9:28:53 PM] Toad: why is it 21:28 in the us?
[9:28:57 PM] Strongandbig: im just reading the last 20 or 30 posts
[9:29:01 PM] Strongandbig: i'm in switzerland
[9:29:06 PM] Toad: oooh you're the guy
[9:29:07 PM] Strongandbig: yeah
[9:29:10 PM] Toad: at cern?
[9:29:11 PM] Toad: awesome :D
[9:29:20 PM] Strongandbig: yeah
[9:29:42 PM] Strongandbig: why does tali think that solstice will be a target
[9:29:43 PM] Strongandbig: he's like
[9:29:47 PM] Strongandbig: a super random guy who never posts
[9:29:48 PM] Toad: i have no idea
[9:29:51 PM] Strongandbig: even if his reads are correct
[9:29:57 PM] Strongandbig: it'd be like blue sniping grush
[9:29:58 PM] Strongandbig: useless
[9:30:17 PM] Toad: i'd rather put him as vig target than as protection target lol
[9:30:47 PM] Toad: same about talis although the effort he's putting in this game is making me feel unsure about it
[9:30:58 PM] Strongandbig: so the thing about talis is
[9:31:09 PM] Strongandbig: the grush shot would have been so ridiculously suboptimal of scum
[9:31:17 PM] Toad: yeah
[9:31:17 PM] Strongandbig: that i have trouble thinking they didn't double stack sloosh
[9:31:27 PM] Toad: no way did mafia shoot grush
[9:31:40 PM] Strongandbig: the only reason to do that instead of shooting sloosh and you or ve or wbg (whichever is / are town)
[9:31:47 PM] Strongandbig: is if they thought a medic might be on him
[9:31:51 PM] Strongandbig: which points towards tali being town
[9:31:52 PM] Strongandbig: imo
[9:32:02 PM] Strongandbig: i know wifom etc
[9:32:15 PM] Strongandbig: but who holds an NK so they can wifom maybe having medic directed
[9:32:24 PM] Toad: why does it point towards talis being town?
[9:32:27 PM] Toad: I'm not getting the connection there
[9:32:36 PM] Strongandbig: because imo if he hadn't been explaining why medics should be on sloosh
[9:32:42 PM] Strongandbig: scum wouldn't have made that conclusoin
[9:33:01 PM] Strongandbig: at least if i was scum and I knew that wbg/ve/toad etc were town i would have assumed the medic would have been on one of them
[9:33:04 PM] Toad: I told people to protect myself and sloOsh and leave out VE / WBG / eran, maybe even myself as well
[9:33:16 PM] Strongandbig: hmm okay
[9:33:20 PM] Strongandbig: i guess i didnt remember that
[9:33:28 PM] Strongandbig: anyway idk about tali; i thought he was scummy at first
[9:33:42 PM] Strongandbig: but his points on ve actually made sense to me
[9:33:48 PM] Strongandbig: that's when i started thinking maybe he was town
[9:33:52 PM] Toad: yeah i thought he was scummy as well early on but I'm getting really bad feelings when thinking about lynching him
[9:34:10 PM] Strongandbig: okay so here's the thing about bugs
[9:34:28 PM] Strongandbig: i feel like throwing that kind of tantrum as a lie would have been just as bad as lying about having irl issues that kept you from posting
[9:34:37 PM] Strongandbig: it's like, he actulaly even blamed his tantrum on irl issues
[9:34:49 PM] Strongandbig: and i dont think he would lie about irl issues just to win a game
[9:34:53 PM] Strongandbig: but other than that
[9:34:58 PM] Strongandbig: everything he did screams scum
[9:35:20 PM] Toad: well I never lie when talking about RL-stuff either, no matter if I'm town or mafia
[9:35:24 PM] Strongandbig: yeah i agree
[9:35:26 PM] Toad: but you can always make something up
[9:35:51 PM] Toad: like I had my LA-exam two days ago , was busy but could have posted way more
[9:35:58 PM] Strongandbig: okay so a different thing
about ve
[9:36:09 PM] Strongandbig: what in the heck in that pm chain would have made him think wbg was town
[9:36:23 PM] Strongandbig: like, think it strongly enough to come out in the thread and try to redirect the d1 lynch
[9:36:39 PM] Strongandbig: that just, i don't really buy it
[9:36:53 PM] Toad: so you consider VE to be more scummy than wbg?
[9:37:13 PM] Toad: I agree that VE looks weird and I don't really have him as town read but wbg just looks way worse
[9:37:25 PM] Strongandbig: wbg looks terrible
[9:37:30 PM] Strongandbig: but
[9:37:31 PM] Strongandbig: umm
[9:37:37 PM] Strongandbig: yeah so here's what it is
[9:37:45 PM] Strongandbig: i've always been pretty impressed with wbg as a player on both sides
[9:37:53 PM] Strongandbig: i think he's a pretty smart and perceptive person
[9:38:11 PM] Strongandbig: and if his strategy as scum was to lie about having problems irl, risk a modkill, and fake ragequit
[9:38:17 PM] Strongandbig: i would just be so disappointed in TL mafia
[9:38:23 PM] Strongandbig: so i want that to not be true
[9:38:41 PM] Toad: i don't think he knew about the not voting himself
[9:38:59 PM] Toad: so I don't really consider that part at all
[9:39:33 PM] Toad: I do think exaggerating RL-issues and rage-quitting could be a strategy as well
[9:39:43 PM] Toad: and it just feels awfully like storm mafia
[9:39:50 PM] Strongandbig: i didn't play storm mafia
[9:40:16 PM] Toad: I called him mafia d1 and d2 all time and somehow he managed to manipulate people for 3 days in a row to lynch who HE wanted to lynch if people posted a list
[9:40:41 PM] Strongandbig: oh right that was the game he was talking about in the mafia theory quote of his i posted d1
[9:40:46 PM] Toad: like we had a list with 4 people d2, 3 of them being mafia, bugs gets in there "yeah I'd be happy to lynch *townie*" and everyone is okay with it although WBG was on the list himself
[9:41:12 PM] Toad: it's just the same thing over again
[9:41:36 PM] Toad: I said I'd be happy to lynch prplhz or bugs d1, bugs says prplhz is 95% mafia and we do that
[9:41:57 PM] Toad: d2 somehow ended up being a eran lynch which was the most retarded thing I've ever seen
[9:42:14 PM] Toad: and now some guy said he wants to lynch me instead of bugs lol
[9:42:55 PM] Strongandbig: well to be fair you do keep excluding yourself from the "mason balance" list thing, remember how you said one of the vet masons had to be scum?
[9:42:58 PM] Toad: lol it was s0lstice who said that
[9:43:03 PM] Strongandbig: and you thought it was errandor or ve
[9:43:04 PM] Toad: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&currentpage=57#1124
[9:43:10 PM] Strongandbig: but you are also a vet mason
[9:43:22 PM] Strongandbig: i mean, that does remind me of what you did in mtg mafia right?
[9:43:31 PM] Toad: nah I never said a vet has to be mafia, did I ?
[9:43:40 PM] Strongandbig: oh right not a vet mason
[9:43:43 PM] Strongandbig: just a vet in general
[9:43:51 PM] Strongandbig: i was the one who thought mafia would have made a vet their mason
[9:43:59 PM] Strongandbig: wait was that tali or you
[9:44:01 PM] Strongandbig: shit 1 sec
[9:44:03 PM] Toad: yeah vet in general (goon or GF) + medium-player mason makes way more sense
[9:44:39 PM] Strongandbig: okay wait that was you yeah
[9:44:40 PM] Strongandbig: anyway
[9:44:51 PM] Toad: at least that's what I'd do if I were mafia because people WILL talk about "well if I were mafia I'd give the mason to a vet", so a low-skill guy being mason would be perfectly safe
[9:45:33 PM] Strongandbig: tbf you did that in mtg mafia, you were like "someone in this group must be scum" when you were in that group, and then we lynched everyone else in that group and then you were like "why would I say that if I was scum, then you would just kill me for being in that group"
[9:45:34 PM] Strongandbig: lol
[9:45:41 PM] Strongandbig: anyway that's a good poitn
[9:45:43 PM] Strongandbig: about strategy
[9:45:54 PM] Strongandbig: but i can still see VE wanting to be the mafia mason, for sure
[9:46:01 PM] Toad: actually I thought about mtg as well
[9:46:14 PM] Toad: and was scared people might consider that game and just policy lynch me ;D
[9:46:27 PM] Strongandbig: haha if we're policy lynching you are like way down the list
[9:46:32 PM] Strongandbig: 1. wbg
[9:46:36 PM] Strongandbig: 2. glasse
[9:46:45 PM] Strongandbig: 3. [like 4 other lurkers]
[9:46:53 PM] Strongandbig: 4. grush just for being grush
[9:46:56 PM] Strongandbig: 5. mrzentor
[9:46:59 PM] Toad: yeah I thought more of a d1 policy lynch
[9:47:00 PM] Strongandbig: 6. toad
[9:47:23 PM] Strongandbig: wait why a d1 policy lynch because of mtg mafia?
[9:47:35 PM] Toad: because noone was talking about me
[9:48:04 PM] Toad: considering the playerbase that means they got me as town (VE and wbg don't talk about townreads)
[9:48:33 PM] Toad: so as I was really manipulative and everyone considered me to be town in mtg I was afraid that some guy might just start some paranoia on me
[9:48:45 PM] Strongandbig: oh
[9:48:47 PM] Strongandbig: that's like
[9:48:51 PM] Strongandbig: incredibly convoluted
[9:49:05 PM] Toad: I guess
[9:49:39 PM] Toad: still it was really strange nobody brought it up
[9:49:54 PM] Toad: I thought it would be an easy way for mafia to discredit me
[9:50:02 PM] Toad: and you're the first one to mention it
[9:51:29 PM] Toad: I guess you stopping to type means you consider that scummy?
[9:51:45 PM] Strongandbig: huh what
[9:51:48 PM] Strongandbig: oh no i was posting
[9:51:52 PM] Strongandbig: about wbg
[9:51:57 PM] Strongandbig: just the same stuff i tolx you
[9:52:05 PM] Toad: ah saw it
[9:52:08 PM] Toad: reading
[9:52:13 PM] Strongandbig: it's not really relevan
[9:52:18 PM] Strongandbig: just letting off some steam
[9:52:25 PM] Toad: oh that yeah
[9:52:26 PM] Strongandbig: i'm still pretty pissed about that day 1 fiasco
[9:52:40 PM] Strongandbig: especially how he kept calling me bad even though his play was the scummiest shit ever
[9:52:49 PM] Toad: yeah
[9:52:53 PM] Toad: he does that a lot
[9:53:33 PM] Toad: I just really don't think town wbg would stop playing like this and still be alive right now
[9:54:01 PM] Toad: if he really was town he'd either start playing or get himself killed on purpose because he has to know that we're going to lynch him
[9:54:19 PM] Strongandbig: also wtf is with no warning or modkill for hassy and biosc?
[9:54:27 PM] Strongandbig: i hate when hosts do that.
[9:54:28 PM] Toad: no idea
[9:54:36 PM] Toad: BC is really lazy
[9:54:38 PM] Strongandbig: like even if they are both town we'd be better off with them modkkilled imo
[9:54:44 PM] Toad: yeah lol
[9:54:54 PM] Toad: I SO want to see hassy flip
[9:55:03 PM] Toad: pretty much no matter of alignment
[9:55:08 PM] Strongandbig: like i thought there was no way he's town
[9:55:26 PM] Strongandbig: but i've got this heuristic that lurking scum usually doesn't let themselves get modkilled
[9:55:36 PM] Toad: yeah
[9:55:37 PM] Strongandbig: unless it's someone like mattchew who plays scum so much that he actually gets bored of it
[9:56:04 PM] Toad: I'm really not sure about all those medium players
[9:56:12 PM] Strongandbig: yeah
[9:56:27 PM] Strongandbig: you mean medium activity or experience leve?
[9:56:33 PM] Toad: they al got some things that make them bad somehow but they all got some things that make them look good as well
[9:56:37 PM] Toad: both
[9:56:59 PM] Toad: but I was referring to experience
[9:57:21 PM] Toad: I've got a couple of strong reads but all those maju's, bke's and guys like that are so hard to read
[9:57:50 PM] Strongandbig: xsebts last post was pretty terrible
[9:57:55 PM] Strongandbig: wait maju is in this game?
[9:58:03 PM] Toad: according to my sheet yeah
[9:58:12 PM] Toad: don't know if he got replaced though
[9:58:21 PM] Toad: still got "ghost_403" instead of zentor as well^^
[9:58:46 PM] Strongandbig: yeah he got replaced
[9:58:49 PM] Strongandbig: solstice maybe?
[9:59:02 PM] Toad: has to be, he's not in my sheet
[9:59:18 PM] Toad: I've really got so few reads on those guys
[9:59:31 PM] Toad: I got glase down as slightly townish for some reaso I don't even remember
[9:59:33 PM] Strongandbig: glasse
[9:59:35 PM] Toad: lazer is probably town
[9:59:35 PM] Strongandbig: seriously
[9:59:39 PM] Strongandbig: you gotta be kidding me
[9:59:56 PM] Toad: yeah I've got him as green so far
[10:00:06 PM] Strongandbig: unless the reason is something like "no scum could actually be that scummy"
[10:00:24 PM] Strongandbig: like he just pops in immediately after every lynch to make a one liner and then ignore everyone asking him to make reads or whatever
[10:00:46 PM] Toad: yeah i know
[10:00:52 PM] Toad: but I actually liked his d1 play
[10:00:59 PM] Toad: it really looked townish to me
[10:01:22 PM] Toad: he was the guy who pointed out that WBG might be just fooling around when outing Eran and VE
[10:01:36 PM] Toad: and prplhz was really confused about that and I didn't mind that at all
[10:02:04 PM] Strongandbig: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&user=86645&currentpage=2
[10:02:10 PM] Strongandbig: think glasse is breadcrumbing vig?
[10:02:25 PM] Strongandbig: that would be terrible by BC, let scum pick their PRs but give town's to rando's
[10:02:58 PM] Toad: I'm not really watching for breadcrumbs, what post?
[10:03:07 PM] Strongandbig: oh just that
[10:03:12 PM] Strongandbig: he keeps talking about the vig
[10:03:19 PM] Strongandbig: while ignoring everything else going on in the thread
[10:03:24 PM] Toad: oh
[10:03:24 PM] Strongandbig: i guess not really a breadcrumb
[10:03:44 PM] Strongandbig: but the thing is that's about the only way I could figure him playing like that as town
[10:03:56 PM] Strongandbig: I mean this post
[10:03:57 PM] Toad: "maybe he was a vig who shot grush" is what you're saying?
[10:03:58 PM] Strongandbig: "
Not gonna lie, my plan is quite boring this game. I shall not do it again."
[10:04:02 PM] Strongandbig: yeah
[10:04:38 PM] Toad: well there are no mafia vigs^^
[10:04:50 PM] Toad: if he really is a vig that's not on purpose, that's for sure
[10:04:54 PM] Strongandbig: yeah
[10:05:03 PM] Strongandbig: okay so if we're looking into lurkers
[10:06:08 PM] Strongandbig: before when I read the whole thread at once i thought the scummiest ones were glasse, broodking, and biosc, and jinglehell
[10:06:34 PM] Toad: jinglehell is really bold
[10:06:40 PM] Strongandbig: jinglehell is a mason right/
[10:06:42 PM] Toad: I don't think he'd play like that as mafia
[10:06:49 PM] Strongandbig: but broodking always looks scummy
[10:06:52 PM] Strongandbig: i think
[10:06:57 PM] Strongandbig: and so does biosc
[10:07:00 PM] Strongandbig: they're just terrible
[10:07:04 PM] Strongandbig: like some of these lurkers are decent
[10:07:21 PM] Toad: I don't remember broodking being this bad
[10:07:22 PM] Strongandbig: synystyr, lazermonkey, hopeless
[10:07:24 PM] Strongandbig: they try
[10:07:30 PM] Toad: hier looks like a decent shot if I were a vigi right now
[10:07:37 PM] Strongandbig: but broodking and biosc? they've actually played a bunch
[10:07:42 PM] Strongandbig: and are just terrible and don't care
[10:08:32 PM] Toad: if I had to rank people (vets not included) from nice vig target #1 to not that good it'd be something like this
[10:08:44 PM] Toad: #1: hier
[10:08:50 PM] Toad: #2 zentor
[10:08:54 PM] Toad: #3 biosc
[10:08:59 PM] Toad: #4 maju
[10:09:10 PM] Toad: maybe bke #5?
[10:09:22 PM] Strongandbig: maju is out of game
[10:09:28 PM] Toad: they can't all be mafia though and it's incredible hard to differentiate between them
[10:09:28 PM] Strongandbig: replaced
[10:09:40 PM] Toad: yeah the solis guy
[10:09:44 PM] Toad: brb changing that
[10:10:00 PM] Strongandbig: could talismania be SK?
[10:10:03 PM] Strongandbig: is there an sk in this game?
[10:10:13 PM] Toad: I don't think there is lol
[10:10:21 PM] Strongandbig: like his play is so wildly swinging between making a lot of sense and making none
[10:10:51 PM] Toad: yes it is
[10:11:01 PM] Toad: I was so sure he's got to be mafia d1
[10:11:15 PM] Toad: n1-start of d2 I thought he's looking better
[10:11:18 PM] Toad: and now I'm back to mafia
[10:11:50 PM] Toad: but I've got hassy, zeph and wbg as mafia in my sheet as well. Including talis would make it alread 4
[10:12:17 PM] Strongandbig: why zeph?
[10:12:35 PM] Strongandbig: tbh the cases by him have been so random that I haven't paid too much attention
[10:12:40 PM] Toad: he's awfully focusing on the wrong things when quoting people
[10:12:56 PM] Toad: and always manages to someone to post really scummy
[10:13:24 PM] Toad: remember when he told everyone "guys, it's obvious this eran vs WBG vs VE fight has to be 3 townies fighting and there's no mafia in there"
[10:13:31 PM] Toad: what kind of townie would make such a post
[10:13:54 PM] Strongandbig: a townie who thinks they're a lot better than they actually are
[10:14:36 PM] Toad: if you think someone is better than what you see, shouldn't you want to lynch them?
[10:14:45 PM] Strongandbig: oh no i meant
[10:14:53 PM] Strongandbig: he thinks he's good
[10:14:54 PM] Strongandbig: not me
[10:14:55 PM] Toad: oh yeah
[10:14:59 PM] Toad: got it
[10:15:20 PM] Toad: if that's what he thinks he should have targeted someone else though
[10:15:29 PM] Toad: it's the same thing WBG does
[10:15:42 PM] Toad: he pops out a bunch of townreads out of nowhere telling people Eran and VE are both town
[10:15:54 PM] Toad: but completly ignores what that means to his scumreads
[10:16:17 PM] Toad: if wbg really thought eran and VE are town he should have been all over me or prplhz d1, but he wasn't. Same goes for zeph
[10:17:18 PM] Strongandbig: yeah so i guess here's where I am right now
[10:17:22 PM] Strongandbig: we can't not lynch wbg tomorrw
[10:17:29 PM] Strongandbig: like, several things
[10:17:33 PM] Strongandbig: his play is scummy as shit
[10:17:48 PM] Strongandbig: and he's shown no sign of trying to make up for it
[10:17:54 PM] Strongandbig: despite having like three days irl to cool off
[10:18:13 PM] Strongandbig: plus if he's not helping town then the potential downside of a scum wbg far outweighs the small upside
[10:18:19 PM] Toad: not to mention that he really plays like a mafia wants to play to look like he's doing when he actually posts something
[10:18:35 PM] Toad: when wbg is posting he's always talking about some townreads, nothing else
[10:18:40 PM] Strongandbig: it's just would he really play so badly as scum?
[10:18:46 PM] Toad: those are all things that are incredible easy to talk about as mafia
[10:19:02 PM] Toad: well he survived 2 days so far
[10:19:07 PM] Strongandbig: yeah
[10:19:14 PM] Strongandbig: i don't think we can afford not to lynch him
[10:19:19 PM] Toad: agree
[10:19:22 PM] Strongandbig: but I also think VE looks like net scum
[10:19:31 PM] Strongandbig: and other than them
[10:19:46 PM] Toad: VE really depends on wether or not we've got more masons and if hassy is mafia
[10:19:59 PM] Strongandbig: broodkign and hassy
[10:20:00 PM] Strongandbig: i guess
[10:20:13 PM] Strongandbig: so that means for me it's wbg, ve, broodking, hassy
[10:20:15 PM] Toad: If hassy and WBG are both mafia I really doubt VE is mafia as well
[10:20:21 PM] Strongandbig: true
[10:20:34 PM] Strongandbig: well it's BC though
[10:20:40 PM] Strongandbig: i don't know him that well
[10:20:49 PM] Strongandbig: but he seeems like he might have skewed ideas on balance
[10:20:58 PM] Toad: yeah it's bc alright but what about the mason between VE and wbg?
[10:21:20 PM] Toad: wbg ragequitted and isn't playing anymore because of eran (or the other way around idk)
[10:21:21 PM] Strongandbig: yeah i don't think they're scum together
[10:21:25 PM] Toad: do you really think he would fake that?
[10:21:27 PM] Strongandbig: but i think one of them is for sure su
[10:21:29 PM] Strongandbig: scum
[10:21:33 PM] Toad: yes
[10:21:39 PM] Toad: and wbg just makes way more sense
[10:21:49 PM] Strongandbig: im not sure about that
[10:21:50 PM] Strongandbig: like
[10:21:55 PM] Strongandbig: there is a possible explanation for all his behavior
[10:22:01 PM] Toad: not to mention that I'd hate myself forever if I had to find out he is mafia and I ended up lynching VE
[10:22:04 PM] Strongandbig: yeah
[10:22:07 PM] Strongandbig: that's where i agree
[10:22:12 PM] Strongandbig: if ve wins this because wbg shitted up the town
[10:22:13 PM] Strongandbig: then fine
[10:22:18 PM] Strongandbig: if wbg wins this while shitting up the town
[10:22:21 PM] Strongandbig: then fuck everything
[10:22:39 PM] Toad: yeah
[10:23:05 PM] Toad: but all those other mafias out there are still so hard to figure out
[10:23:20 PM] Strongandbig: yeah
[10:23:25 PM] Strongandbig: its so hard to put pressure on them
[10:23:27 PM] Strongandbig: actually
[10:23:35 PM] Strongandbig: i wouldn't count out xsebt
[10:23:38 PM] Strongandbig: looking at his filter
[10:23:38 PM] Toad: even if wbg is mafia, mafia still has 2KP until they're reduced to 2 players 8(
[10:23:44 PM] Strongandbig: could be a shitty us
[10:23:47 PM] Strongandbig: bus
[10:23:49 PM] Strongandbig: by bugs
[10:23:55 PM] Strongandbig: or if bugs is town
[10:23:58 PM] Strongandbig: then he stumbled on a mafia
[10:24:03 PM] Strongandbig: but xsebts filter looks scum to me
[10:24:30 PM] Strongandbig: i'm gonna play some civ 4, i'll try and write up some stuff in an hour or so before i go to bed
[11:34:05 PM] Strongandbig: i guess we should post these pm logs before one of us gets nk'ed
[11:34:19 PM] Toad: thught about it as well
[11:34:30 PM] Toad: but I don't feel like staying up until 5 am
[11:34:32 PM] Toad: or 4 am
[11:34:37 PM] Strongandbig: yeah
[11:34:40 PM] Strongandbig: me neither
[11:35:07 PM] Strongandbig: i think i'm kinda likely to get killed anyway, regardless of my reads i'm like the only person who posts a lot in the thread and yet isn't called scum
[11:35:12 PM] Toad: honestly I wouldn't mind taking the risk that at least one of us survives to post it
[11:35:26 PM] Toad: I think either you or I are going to die tonight
[11:35:30 PM] Strongandbig: yeah
[11:35:38 PM] Strongandbig: well is there any reason to not post it now?
[11:35:39 PM] Strongandbig: like
[11:35:41 PM] Toad: and if my townread on you is wrong this game is over anyways :D
[11:35:51 PM] Strongandbig: i think scum are going to kill us or not regardless of what's in the logs
[11:35:56 PM] Strongandbig: it's not like there's anything groundbreaking
[11:36:12 PM] Toad: yeah i don't see a problem with posting them
[11:36:20 PM] Strongandbig: kk i'ma do that then go to bed
[11:36:32 PM] Toad: especially as we disagreed about the lower-experience guys quite a lot lol