EPT+ Show Spoiler +
On August 09 2012 10:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm gonna open with the important stuff.
talismania, Zephirdd, Toadesstern
Yes, that's right - THREE names. Not Five. Why? Because in my opinion, the last 2 scums can be found in the pool of players who haven't been posting, like, at all. There have been too many town flips of active players for me to entertain the notion that ALL of the scum are playing visibly. Therefor, at least 40% of the scum team can, by my estimation, be found in that group.
Now, my reads.
talismania has been very confusing to me over the course of the game. After D1 I agreed with slOosh's points on talismania - lots of questions that seemed to go nowhere, very little what I would consider actual scum hunting. However, D2 talis turned on the town with a bright and shiny case on me. Generally speaking, I automatically think "SCUM!" in cases like that, as many of you are well aware - however this time it was different. This time, talismania had valid concerns about my activity and my case against him…and considering my main contention with him was about the whole questions that go nowhere thing, I decided to assent to masoning him.
That's where things changed, for me. Over the course of those conversations, I was left with the feeling that he wasn't REALLY after information at all - that he was looking for something specific…something that I'd referenced earlier in the game.
All Talismania was interested in during the WHOLE of our conversations was my read on Zephirdd.
Why? What about Zephirdd was so important for me to comment on? What about my Zephirdd read intrigued him so? So I tried something out…
I intentionally avoided talking about Zephirdd at all.
:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Here is the result of this experiment.
+ Show Spoiler +
WHO CARES?! He's barely playing and is probably scum! But if he doesn't do scummy things then I can't lynch him!
talismania, in an attempt to distract town, has focused on my read of Zephirdd for almost an entire cycle. If he thinks I'm scum and Zeph is town, what could he possibly want to know what I think of Zephirdd for?
Here's my theory: that he and Zephirdd are scum TOGETHER. I think he was interested in getting my read on Zephirdd in the thread to either vilify me for thinking an "obvious townie" is scum, or to solidify sentiment that he's town when I died D2 and flipped town by me stating a town-read on him.
My guess is that scum roleblocked someone they killed N1 and talis claimed it in an attempt to gain town-cred.
Zephirdd has spent the whole of the second cycle being pressured by CD. The result of this pressure, I think, speaks for itself - but I'll speak for it for those of you who are wondering what I'm talking about.
He reacted BADLY. REALLY badly. Like, as a townie, how would you react to someone continually calling you scum based on nothing and trolling you?
If your answer is anything but "ignore it and hunt scum" then you're scum. I'm sorry, but that's my opinion. Zeph's answer would apparently be "FREAK THE FUCK OUT AND RAGE IN-THREAD AND OMGUSSSSSSSSS"…if he were town. However, I think he's scum that can't handle pressure.
And golly gee, he didn't vote for me, talismania's "#1 scum read". Hmmmm, I wonder what's going on here. :/
Toadesstern is on this list because he's a mason, and because I'm town the pool of possible scum masons is shrinking. Ultimately he's null, but I'm thinking scum probably have a mason and I don't think it's JH - especially after reading his logs with talismania. It's possible there ARE no scum masons and BC threw in a ton of town masons to fuck with town - but I find it really unlikely, and if that's what's going on here then BC is truly a bastard.
So my lynch-order preference would be:
1. talismania/Zephirdd (I'm equally sure on both and would support either lynch equally.
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2. Toadesstern.
I don't want to lynch Toad tomorrow, but I will if town wants to because he's a mason that's not JH or myself. Pretty much no other reason. :/
VisceraEyes Thoughts, And Lack Thereof
I'm gonna open with the important stuff.
talismania, Zephirdd, Toadesstern
Yes, that's right - THREE names. Not Five. Why? Because in my opinion, the last 2 scums can be found in the pool of players who haven't been posting, like, at all. There have been too many town flips of active players for me to entertain the notion that ALL of the scum are playing visibly. Therefor, at least 40% of the scum team can, by my estimation, be found in that group.
Now, my reads.
talismania has been very confusing to me over the course of the game. After D1 I agreed with slOosh's points on talismania - lots of questions that seemed to go nowhere, very little what I would consider actual scum hunting. However, D2 talis turned on the town with a bright and shiny case on me. Generally speaking, I automatically think "SCUM!" in cases like that, as many of you are well aware - however this time it was different. This time, talismania had valid concerns about my activity and my case against him…and considering my main contention with him was about the whole questions that go nowhere thing, I decided to assent to masoning him.
That's where things changed, for me. Over the course of those conversations, I was left with the feeling that he wasn't REALLY after information at all - that he was looking for something specific…something that I'd referenced earlier in the game.
All Talismania was interested in during the WHOLE of our conversations was my read on Zephirdd.
Why? What about Zephirdd was so important for me to comment on? What about my Zephirdd read intrigued him so? So I tried something out…
I intentionally avoided talking about Zephirdd at all.
:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Here is the result of this experiment.
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 07 2012 12:06 talismania wrote:
VE you out there? waiting for a pm reply.
VE you out there? waiting for a pm reply.
On August 08 2012 02:38 talismania wrote:
The extent of my communication with VE. Yes I wanted to more or less interrogate him about every player in the game, I think he's scum. Never really got to though. If he's innocent he shouldn't have a problem with that and should also probably want to interrogate me about a lot of things. He never responded to my zephirdd question despite posting in the thread after I had sent it, so I asked him in the thread.
+ Show Spoiler +
Removed per request of host - for full logs in text form see this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=57#1127
The extent of my communication with VE. Yes I wanted to more or less interrogate him about every player in the game, I think he's scum. Never really got to though. If he's innocent he shouldn't have a problem with that and should also probably want to interrogate me about a lot of things. He never responded to my zephirdd question despite posting in the thread after I had sent it, so I asked him in the thread.
+ Show Spoiler +
Removed per request of host - for full logs in text form see this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=57#1127
On August 08 2012 03:24 talismania wrote:
How is this a town attitude, toad?
He writes this, but do you see it in the logs? He asked me about erandorr, I responded. I asked him about zephirdd after he brought zephirdd's name up... and nothing. If he had asked what I thought about zeph I would have gladly answered. He only showed interest in picking my brain about erandorr. The "people" I asked about? I only asked about one, and he never answered. I asked a grand total of two questions of him in PMs as they "dragged on".
How is this a town attitude, toad?
He writes this, but do you see it in the logs? He asked me about erandorr, I responded. I asked him about zephirdd after he brought zephirdd's name up... and nothing. If he had asked what I thought about zeph I would have gladly answered. He only showed interest in picking my brain about erandorr. The "people" I asked about? I only asked about one, and he never answered. I asked a grand total of two questions of him in PMs as they "dragged on".
On August 08 2012 06:28 talismania wrote:
ah sorry. I would argue that they are all around the same level of interest to be honest.
Whatever happened to your thoughts on xsebt and zephirdd? You said in PMs you were going to look into them yesterday.
ah sorry. I would argue that they are all around the same level of interest to be honest.
Whatever happened to your thoughts on xsebt and zephirdd? You said in PMs you were going to look into them yesterday.
WHO CARES?! He's barely playing and is probably scum! But if he doesn't do scummy things then I can't lynch him!
talismania, in an attempt to distract town, has focused on my read of Zephirdd for almost an entire cycle. If he thinks I'm scum and Zeph is town, what could he possibly want to know what I think of Zephirdd for?
Here's my theory: that he and Zephirdd are scum TOGETHER. I think he was interested in getting my read on Zephirdd in the thread to either vilify me for thinking an "obvious townie" is scum, or to solidify sentiment that he's town when I died D2 and flipped town by me stating a town-read on him.
My guess is that scum roleblocked someone they killed N1 and talis claimed it in an attempt to gain town-cred.
Zephirdd has spent the whole of the second cycle being pressured by CD. The result of this pressure, I think, speaks for itself - but I'll speak for it for those of you who are wondering what I'm talking about.
He reacted BADLY. REALLY badly. Like, as a townie, how would you react to someone continually calling you scum based on nothing and trolling you?
If your answer is anything but "ignore it and hunt scum" then you're scum. I'm sorry, but that's my opinion. Zeph's answer would apparently be "FREAK THE FUCK OUT AND RAGE IN-THREAD AND OMGUSSSSSSSSS"…if he were town. However, I think he's scum that can't handle pressure.
And golly gee, he didn't vote for me, talismania's "#1 scum read". Hmmmm, I wonder what's going on here. :/
Toadesstern is on this list because he's a mason, and because I'm town the pool of possible scum masons is shrinking. Ultimately he's null, but I'm thinking scum probably have a mason and I don't think it's JH - especially after reading his logs with talismania. It's possible there ARE no scum masons and BC threw in a ton of town masons to fuck with town - but I find it really unlikely, and if that's what's going on here then BC is truly a bastard.
So my lynch-order preference would be:
1. talismania/Zephirdd (I'm equally sure on both and would support either lynch equally.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
2. Toadesstern.
I don't want to lynch Toad tomorrow, but I will if town wants to because he's a mason that's not JH or myself. Pretty much no other reason. :/
Those cases are atrocious.
TALIS
- Talis has consistently been following up on his reads and his 'questions that go no where'. His constant attempts to get you to respond to his questions are scummy? WTF? That's bullshit. He tunneled you when you refused to answer him and I think such a move is completely justified. I have a hard time believing you tried to set up such a shitty trap when the results are not all that damning against talis anyways.
- He constantly drones on about the setup and wants character names?
From the pm log between Toad and SnB:
(SnB)
I also think anyone who's played a game or two with talismania should know that his trying to get setup information and character name claims isn't alignment indicative, he always pushes some kind of plan like that as any alignment.
(Toad)
2) Yeah I agree on Talis. There's some things I don't like about him but pushing those weird plans is not alignment indicating at all. The amount of "effort" he's putting in this game however made me reconsider a bit. He wasn't that much talkactive when we both played mafia in PYPoison. He's strange alright but he usually enjoys the "trying to understand the game" way more than "trying to figure out mafia"either way, so that's normal.
Not really the most conclusive scumtell on talis you had there.
ZEPH
You're baseline suspicions of Zeph stem from Day 1 due to his list of lurkers, or so it seems. The main point of you thinking he's scum now is his response to CountDropula. Guy literally lurks the shit out of the game, had more posts in the voting thread than the actual thread at one point in time and then completely out of the blue tunnels into zeph like a goddamn freight train. His posts are so obnoxious I'd have either responded similarly to how zeph did, or not at all.
Zeph didn't vote in line with talis - TEHY MUST BE SCAMS TOGETHURR.
Meanwhile, Zeph actually sheeped your vote on Erandorr (so did I for that matter) because he felt you and bugs were producing better arguments.
Does this mean the two of you **le GASP** created a bandwagon together on Erandorr to save yourself?!
TOAD
Obviously the weakest part of your case, but Toad is maybe kind of scum according to you because SOME of the masons have to be scum right? Well you're just as likely to be scum as any of the others at this point, including JH. None of this WIFOM 'vets must be scum' garbage for me. I'm reading town from Toad through his mason logs with snb. The same can't be said for you from your logs with bugs and talis, at least in my opinion.
RAILROADING TOWN, DO WHAT I SAY, KILL SO AND SO, BLAH BLAH FREAKING BLAH
There's plenty more to dissect if you want to start connection theories and confirmation bias. Your case alone however, is more than enough for me to vote you today VE.
