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On July 02 2012 01:49 layabout wrote:Current Votes: + Show Spoiler +
(Top: most recent Bottom: least recent)
VisceraEyes ##Vote: BillMurray
austinmcc ##Vote mKmKmK
Vivax ##Vote mKmKmK
Vivax ##Vote Mandalor
Kurumi ##vote mKmKmK
EchelonTee ##vote mKmKmK
Hyaach ##vote mKmKmK
s0Lstice ##Vote: Katina
Adam4167 ##Vote: Mandalor
Mandalor ##vote: BroodKingEXE
MajuGarzett ##Vote: NoSmurfHere
Twelve ##vote: BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##vote: BroodKingeXxe
casualman ##Vote: casualman
drwiggl3s ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
ShiaoPi ##vote: BroodKingEXE
rastaban ##vote mKmKmK
BroodKingEXE ##Vote: casualman
VisceraEyes ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##Vote Acrofales
Acrofales ##vote BillMurray
Mattchew ##vote casualman
casualman ##Vote BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##Vote: VE
Katina ##Vote BroodKingEXE
NoSmurfHere ##vote mKmKmK
VisceraEyes ##Vote: VisceraEyes
votecount:
mKmKmK (7)
austinmcc
Vivax
Kurumi
EchelonTee
Hyaach
NoSmurfHere
rastaban
BroodkingEXE (6)
Katina
ShiaoPi
drwiggl3s
Bill Murray
Twelve
mandalor
Casualman (3)
Casualman
BrodkingEXE
Mattchew
BillMurray (2)
VisceraEyes
Acrofales
Mandalor (1)
Adam4167
NoSmurfHere (1)
MajuGarzett
Katina (1)
s0Lstice
As a member of our great (circus) town it is very important that you put effort and time into your vote. It increases your chance of winning. It is expected of town. It is not very difficult for town. It is benfiacial for town. It is risky for mafia. The more opinions mafia give and the more stances mafia have to take, the more likely they are to give themselves away. Avoiding putting in time and effort in voting is beneficial to mafia. With that in mind, why on earth are VisceraEyes and Acrofales throwing away their votes. Both players are known for domineering and leading threads for better or worse and it is surprising that they are happy to cast votes that will be of little consequence. These players: + Show Spoiler +Katina
NoSmurfHere
Mattchew
Acrofales
Voted very early on and have not changed their votws. I am concerned that so many players are content to leave their votes like this when you consider the huge difference in the information available when they voted to the information available now. Casualman voted for himself. Either he is a townie that is playing to screw with us or he is mafia plaing to screw with us.
We should kill Casualman. If we allow players to do that then we will be dealing with nonsense all game and once all of the active players are killed off our lurking brethren will see a bunch of rubbish get confused and lose. I still think we should kill Kurumi but he is at least half playing the game.##Vote Casualman
Casualman is quite clearly trolling. Whether he's town trolling or scum trolling: fucked if I know, but lets lynch scum, not trolls.
As for your calling my vote on BM "wasted" and incriminating me for having it on him for a long time: I think he's scum. The initial read was not that strong, but his reaction was terrible and he has been acting scummy ever since. Why would I change my vote, except to consolidate in order to prevent something I think is a mislynch?
This whole post of yours is giving me a bad feeling. You call me out for wasting my vote, yet throw your own on a trollread, who is probably not getting lynched. You afraid that our votes will gain traction and your scumbuddy gets lynched?
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On July 02 2012 02:28 layabout wrote:
You can't read BM.
Ignore him or kill him.
Don't pretend he is acting scummy.
I've played 2 games before with BM. In holy roman we were town together. I read him as town and I was right. In DFM2 I was scum and he was town, so things were a bit different, but he did some things that clearly only made sense from a town perspective (and if I recall it was mainly scum pressure that kept him in focus). This game I have a scum read on him. Could I be wrong? Absolutely, BM has done some really scummy shit in both those games, but I had a town read on him regardless.
Saying YOU can't read him is fine, but don't presume you speak for everybody. Kurumi is someone I cannot read at all (I couldn't read him in Space Station and I can't read him now. He posts dense, obscure gobbledygook). I have trouble reading Drazerk too, but I think I am onto something with BM this game.
If you think BM is a bad lynch say so and get your own vote on someone who is actually a good lynch: mK for instance.
Casualman is a cop-out, who has a coinflip chance of being scum and regardless of the flip we learn nothing. mK is also bad from an information point of view, but at least he's scummy. BM has the advantage of being scummy AND giving us info!
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I had a "leaning town" in my notes for you, but upon revising I'm not sure why. Maybe because of your first post. However, I just went through your filter and I don't get it.
+ Show Spoiler [casualman is town] +On June 30 2012 23:31 layabout wrote:casual is probably town because he broke the rules. His vote make me sick to my stomach. He has some explaining to do. Hyaach need to stop sitting on his ass waiting for someone else to make a case and do something. I don't get this: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 15:31 Hyaach wrote:
hi town my second big mafia. Please don't shit it up with spam.
i can't handle that.
Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 23:18 Hyaach wrote:
I'm against lynching Kurumi. Don't know about policy lynch but detective pinkie pie from bastard mafia came to mind here. I cannot give a judgement worth anything about him at this time.
This post indicates a slight town read on casualman. Yet he is now ready to lynch him. It also voices slight suspicion of Hyaach, yet he never follows up on it. Hyaach has done very little since layabout made this post, yet layabout never says anything about it.
+ Show Spoiler [casualman is retarded] +On July 01 2012 06:28 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:27 Vivax wrote:
Guys, look at the voting thread. Casualman just voted for himself. That's his phase 2. He can't have done that. That would be retarded.
I'll say it again: we don't lynch retards, we lynch scum. You want retards dead? Do them the favour of shooting them in the face rather than wasting lynches on it.
Then comes his vote on casualman and accusing me of throwing my vote away.
In short:
1. wants to lynch retards he has a slight scumread on
2. doesn't follow up pressure.
3. accuses people of throwing away their votes, then does the same.
In closing: yes, layabout, I'm starting to think you're scum. Thank you for making me take another look at your filter!
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Urgh. I'm not 100% sure on my BM read. But I just recently stumbled upon the bootcamp thread (which is EXCELLENT and I recommend it to everybody. Took me a while now to re-find it too, because it's not in the central library): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=201367
The relevant quote from Ver:
On March 18 2011 18:02 Ver wrote:
Lastly, you will notice that almost every one of my posts was made with 100% conviction. That was a deliberate act. The only people I was absolutely 100% certain on were Chaoser, LD, and cubedin (lategame) and for each one I said that. The most dangerous person for the mafia to face (and the town as well actually) is the one who is absolutely convinced of themselves and will stop at nothing to get their target lynched. Mafia absolutely delight to see townies who aren't sure of themselves. First of all, someone who can't convince themselves can't convince others, and secondly, it's easier for the mafia to dissuade that person out of their attacks if they manage to hit mafia. I remember in Salem Doctor H had snagged Jimbosilvers and Radfield, but he made the fatal mistake of showing doubt of his own convictions, and the mafia whispered eagerly in glee and redoubled their efforts to save themselves. Had he showed complete belief in his targets, the mafia were much more inclined to simply give up. I think that happened in this game as well. LSB, Foolishness, and myself were all acting in such a certainty of our beliefs and the mafia simply never had the heart to take us on. So as soon as we hit red, that was one mafia down. Obviously that had an enormous effect on the game, because there was not one single lynch where the mafia team mobilized their forces to take us on in the thread and in the voting booth at once. Instead every single time they hurriedly stepped to the side and said 'please, go right ahead and kill my buddy good sir.' Pretty awesome right?
This, combined with my indecisiveness in Bastard 2 made me want to change up my play a bit. If you really want the truth? Sure, my read might be wrong. But I think he's scum and want him dead.
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Anyway, I'm leaving my vote on him in the hope that the rest of town sees the light. Going to watch the football now and probably won't be back for the deadline. VIVA ESPAÑA!!!
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Oh, and you're selectively quoting from Holy Roman. I stated quite a few times that I had a town read on BM and you know it.
+ Show Spoiler [town reads on BM from Holy Roman] +On May 10 2012 20:43 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 20:29 Forumite wrote:On May 10 2012 19:55 syllogism wrote:On May 10 2012 19:49 Acrofales wrote:On May 10 2012 19:23 Forumite wrote:On May 10 2012 19:03 Acrofales wrote:On May 10 2012 18:45 Forumite wrote:On May 10 2012 18:30 Acrofales wrote:Also, you're wrong. Here is from the OP:
Of course, there is an order to inheritance. All players will PM me the name of two players, one for Emperor and one for Empress. The person with the most votes becomes Emperor, and his heir is the player behind him in line. Similarly, the player for Empress will become Empress and the following player will be the Empress's heir.
The number of votes decides the line of succession. All anybody has to do is decide who he/she wants as Emperor and who as Empress. Send those two names to Caller. HINT: I should be emperor. You are missing the point, the heirs are almost as important as the first pick, but much easier to get elected for scum. If we don´t make sure there´s a good candidate for each heir position, and that they get enough votes, then I can guarantee that both heirs will be scum, or whoever scum want in that position. Heh, you're assuming that we can get people organized enough to NOT vote for their prime candidate for emperor, but their second-best, just so he gets enough votes to be heir? This sounds like a scum plan to be able to manipulate the votes to me. More so, because insofar as I understand the OP and the later posts, the list is NOT publicized and we don't even know who is heir to the throne. Everybody should vote for whoever they think would make the best emperor/empress. Vote for someone you think is town, and capable of using the power wisely. For now, I am voting for ME for emperor. It'd be great if some more people stepped forward as empress. Hassybaby and CompanionCube seem to be the only two who have put their name forward. I am not really convinced by either so far, although I prefer cube to Hassy: despite his flavour posting he seems to be putting in some effort into the game and cutting down on the trolling one-liners. Forumite, have you thought of entering the race for empress? If town openly decide on 2 good candidates for each spot then we should get roughly 10 votes for each, enough that scum can´t manipulate who, only who first. Assuming there are 6 scum, then votes placed on a candidate who only get 5 votes are totally wasted, they only help scum get more influence. Running without a chance of winning is pointless. No, I don´t want to be the Empress, nor Emperor for that matter. I know my chances are very, very slim of getting picked, and even if I got elected I wouldn´t do much good there for the short while I would be in office. Assuming scum somehow doesn't have a role in the picking of 4 names in a pre-D1 stage (with 10 hours to go before voting deadline, if the 24 hours post is taken as the start of the countdown), with about a quarter of the players not even having posted yet seems rather optimistic. Especially as the candidates so far are rather lacking in their appeal. Here we go: EmperorAcrofales - not much to say that hasn't been said. Excellent candidate. Must vote. Carolus Magnus - has not said what he'll do as emperor, but is making sense. Mattchew - mainly trolling and bromancing Hassy. Might be better than Carolus if he steps up his play.U - not much reason to vote, not much reason not to vote. ATLAS - a robot, who has done little other than troll this game. Quicksilver - anybody taking this seriously? EmpressHassybaby - if you like cats, vote for him. WTF. Companion Cube - is about as useful as you'd expect from an inanimate object. Still better than Hassy atm  Kurumi - wants to be empress so he can play with his boobies... If I am missing someone please let me know, but I would really like some quality put forward and some meaningful discussion on what people plan to do if they're voted for. I don't believe we should agree on 4 people, but I do believe we should try to consolidate votes on people we can agree on are townie. So far that has been rather hard. Are you serious? Please elaborate. Quicksilver is actually a decent candidate for either position, but I'm not going to explain why, deal with it Syllo, what the fuck? I don´t care about people smurfing, but if you do, make bloody certain you post with your smurf. Claim now, which smurf are you! Huh? He claimed Carolus, hydra with Sandro... seemed pretty damned obvious to me. @BM: your wall made some sense, but claiming your meta is transparent is not true. You make a bad emperor/empress candidate because your playstyle is haphazard. No offense, but your reads, posts, and actions, are ALL over the place as town, allowing a scum BM to get away easily. My play is highly structured and logical, meaning that unless you think I am another Ace, my play should be an open book. This makes me prone to get shot rather early as town, but that risk is present regardless of whether I am emperor or not (see SSM if you want an example of a completely unimportant Acro to get shot in the face). That said, I kinda like your wall with reads. On May 10 2012 22:32 Acrofales wrote:
The reason I want to hold off on Bluelightz is that he (and BM too) always are easy targets for mafia to push a mislynch on. In this game he actually looks less scummy than DFM2 and another game I read (can't remember which), in which he was town. His all-over-the-map voting for emperor/empress seems more like an indecisive townie than scum, which is kinda what I expect from Bluelightz. I will also go for my own reads, rather than Syllo's "feelings". If Syllo has anything more conclusive I'd love to hear it, but as it is I think Bluelightz gets the benefit of the doubt.
Also, posting some reads is a good idea. I personally am not confident in any scum reads (also not Jitsu). So will refrain from posting any. The "lynch a random inactive smurf" call is kinda obvious. On May 12 2012 04:49 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 04:40 Drazerk wrote:On May 12 2012 04:39 Acrofales wrote:On May 12 2012 04:33 Bill Murray wrote:On May 12 2012 04:32 strongandbig wrote:On May 12 2012 04:27 Bill Murray wrote:
Carolus, protecting me tonight, or should I just stop playing? How does it help town to ask this? How would it help town for him to answer you? Also could you answer my question from before - How does "outing your blue claim," like you say he did, give him town credit in any way? if he isnt going to be on me tonight im not sending in an action period And this is supposed to make us think you're town? Acting all butthurt over something you actually screwed up yourself. Lets be honest, in that entire exchange, P-Body hardly posted at all. You were overflowing with information and all P-Body said was "interesting", or "??". Admit you screwed up and move on. From this entire exchange both you and P-Body come out looking like town, and P-Body quite a bit townier than you. I am opposed to a lynch on either of you. how did you get BM town from that because of this I will wear this large silly hat Part of it is the "it's too fucking stupid to be scum" feeling that is going off in my mind. I can't think of a proper scum motivation for the chat exchange. Granted, I can't think of a proper town motivation for the chat exchange either, but scum tends to be a LOT more careful than town in that sorta thing. A roleclaim is planned and thought through. This does NOT look planned, it looks like a giant DERP. Secondly, BM came to the thread yelling about P-Body bluefishing. After the exchange P-Body posted there can be no doubt that if there was ANYBODY bluefishing in that exchange, it was BM. Why would BM bring that to the thread, if he was SCUM? That is my main reason for thinking BM is town in this. I will believe he has a PR. It may, however, be village idiot. The cop claim seems dodgy, but that is the only dodgy thing in this entire exchange and once again, scum would take one look at the role list and see there are already 2 cops. Why would they plan another cop claim when it is unlikely to be believed. It doesn't look planned, it looks panicked. Truthful or not, it still looks townie.
And there's a few more where that came from.
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I'm BACK! VIVA ESPAÑA!!!!
Lets not lynch Italkians they already hurt enough after toay.
HI MARV! Want to lynch BN?
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But then I have to think. I'm drunk and tired
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My read on mk was saummy lurker. Flxtroller agrees. Foxtrotter is also a scummy luriker. Not sure which one is scum :S
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Nevermind. I remember. Lets lynch foxtrotter. You're making sense and I want to go to bed.
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Marvellosity, why you no lead me to scum? I disagree with drwiggl3s. He seems to be implying that everybody should've voted for BKE, because the lynch was lead off him by scum. Clearly a possibility, but as the day went on I was also getting townier vibes about BKE, so it could just be townies realizing that lynching BKE was a bad idea when push came to shove.
The choice between mK and foxtrotter is still pretty null in my book. Marvellosity made a case against foxtrotter for being a hypocrit. ET made a case against mK for kenpachi rule. Other than these two things both were lurkers. I ended up sheeping marvellosity because I liked his case a bit more. Turns out that was wrong.
+ Show Spoiler [votecount] +
mKmKmK - 6
rastaban
Kurumi
Vivax
austinmcc
Foxtrotter
grush57
BroodKingEXE - 6
Katina
ShiaoPi
drwiggl3s
Bill Murray
Mandalor
layabout
casualman - 2
BroodKingEXE
casualman
Foxtrotter - 11
Marvellosity
Mattchew
Acrofales
EchelonTee
s0Lstice
Hyaach
VisceraEyes
MajuGarzett
NoSmurfHere
Twelve
ghost_403
Mandalor - 1
Adam4167
No vote: mKmKmK
There's a few things I want to draw from the votecount.
The first is that mK never even showed up to vote, so he should get modkilled or replaced. I don't think it's worth discussing him until one of those things happens. Inactives are null, although I have a meta-argument that if the host puts in a lot of work to find a replacement for an inactive, he is probably scum. It has worked in Holy Roman (it took Caller/Toad/blubb a lot of effort to replace Vaderseven; he was scum) and in Game of Thrones (it took Curu a LOT of effort to replace Gumshoe; also was scum). 2 is a pretty shitty sample size for statistics, but it's worth remembering.
The second is that I was kinda expecting casualman to switch his vote at some point during the day, but he never did, not even when the lynch was equally balanced between 3 targets. That goes beyond the earlier simple trolling to being full-blown retarded. If someone would do us the favour of shooting him tonight so we don't have to worry about him tomorrow, that'd be great.
grush: I asked you earlier who you wanted to lynch. I am unsatisfied with:
+ Show Spoiler [suspicious of casualman] +On July 02 2012 01:57 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 01:49 layabout wrote:Current Votes: + Show Spoiler +
(Top: most recent Bottom: least recent)
VisceraEyes ##Vote: BillMurray
austinmcc ##Vote mKmKmK
Vivax ##Vote mKmKmK
Vivax ##Vote Mandalor
Kurumi ##vote mKmKmK
EchelonTee ##vote mKmKmK
Hyaach ##vote mKmKmK
s0Lstice ##Vote: Katina
Adam4167 ##Vote: Mandalor
Mandalor ##vote: BroodKingEXE
MajuGarzett ##Vote: NoSmurfHere
Twelve ##vote: BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##vote: BroodKingeXxe
casualman ##Vote: casualman
drwiggl3s ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
ShiaoPi ##vote: BroodKingEXE
rastaban ##vote mKmKmK
BroodKingEXE ##Vote: casualman
VisceraEyes ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##Vote Acrofales
Acrofales ##vote BillMurray
Mattchew ##vote casualman
casualman ##Vote BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##Vote: VE
Katina ##Vote BroodKingEXE
NoSmurfHere ##vote mKmKmK
VisceraEyes ##Vote: VisceraEyes
votecount:
mKmKmK (7)
austinmcc
Vivax
Kurumi
EchelonTee
Hyaach
NoSmurfHere
rastaban
BroodkingEXE (6)
Katina
ShiaoPi
drwiggl3s
Bill Murray
Twelve
mandalor
Casualman (3)
Casualman
BrodkingEXE
Mattchew
BillMurray (2)
VisceraEyes
Acrofales
Mandalor (1)
Adam4167
NoSmurfHere (1)
MajuGarzett
Katina (1)
s0Lstice
As a member of our great (circus) town it is very important that you put effort and time into your vote. It increases your chance of winning. It is expected of town. It is not very difficult for town. It is benfiacial for town. It is risky for mafia. The more opinions mafia give and the more stances mafia have to take, the more likely they are to give themselves away. Avoiding putting in time and effort in voting is beneficial to mafia. With that in mind, why on earth are VisceraEyes and Acrofales throwing away their votes. Both players are known for domineering and leading threads for better or worse and it is surprising that they are happy to cast votes that will be of little consequence. These players: + Show Spoiler +Katina
NoSmurfHere
Mattchew
Acrofales
Voted very early on and have not changed their votws. I am concerned that so many players are content to leave their votes like this when you consider the huge difference in the information available when they voted to the information available now. Casualman voted for himself. Either he is a townie that is playing to screw with us or he is mafia plaing to screw with us. We should kill Casualman. If we allow players to do that then we will be dealing with nonsense all game and once all of the active players are killed off our lurking brethren will see a bunch of rubbish get confused and lose. I still think we should kill Kurumi but he is at least half playing the game. ##Vote Casualman I have to agree. Atleast BM isn't going full retard like casualman. Casualman doesn't want to play and is just being plain stupid. Plus, he is by far playing the most scummiest so far.
+ Show Spoiler [calls BKE scum] +On July 02 2012 04:05 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 04:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:Your two posts on me: On June 30 2012 15:31 Twelve wrote:
My initial thoughts are to be suspicious of Kurumi. He takes three posts to say very little, seeming to want to contribute without actually offering anything. I also agree that BroodKingEXE is suspicious for the same reasons, a long ranting post on a topic that he didn't seemed concerned about before the game started. I'm going to read the thread a bit more... just my initial thoughts. Does it matter what I was interested in before game? I wasn't scum or townie before the game, so it wouldn't reveal anything about more alignment. On July 01 2012 08:24 Twelve wrote:On July 01 2012 08:12 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I think a vote count would be appropriate:
Votecount:
VisceraEyes: VisceraEyes ,Bill Murray
mKmKmK(2): NoSmurfHere, rastaban
BroodKEXE(4): Katina, casualman, VisceraEyes , ShiaoPi, Drwiggl3s
Bill Murray(1): Acrofales
Acrofales(1): Bill Murray
casualman(3): Mattchew, BroodKingEXE, casualman This reads as scum to me. Reorganizing public information and posting it as a friendly town helping message, even though in reality it offers very little information. I hear "Hey guys, scum would never post a vote count where they are losing! Clearly BKE just has the town's best interests at heart!" On a side note though, what reasons would there be for casualman to vote for himself if he were town? Your going to vote for me for posting a votecount? Funny how you ninja vote right after it, maybe you saw the count and thought you could get away with it while everyone was using it to get a gauge on the accusations. A vote is a powerful indicator of whether you are scum or not, a townie doesn't need to hide it as it reveals their townieness. Y u so scum bro
Into voting for mK with no prior reasoning. Now given the pre-game banter you seem to be one of those players who looks scummy in all his games, regardless of actual alignment (like bluelightz and Zealos). I know you looked scummy in Space Station and were town, because I blew you up for looking scummy (or rather, placed a bomb on you and scum shot me).
However, this looks terrible. I want to know what the rest of the thread thinks of this. It's night, so plenty of time to discuss.
Vivax: I like you for a D2 lynch too. Every single case you've made has been some kind of wonky connection-based case with terrible premises. I'm not sure what s0lstice sees in you that's townie, but I'm not getting it.
1. You are not reading the thread properly despite being told multiple times by multiple people (myself, VE and marvellosity so far) to read the thread.
2. You are throwing suspicion around on people without giving a real reason (myself, VE, Shiao and marvellosity). While you built a dodgy connection case on VE and me based on the premise that BM is town (can we please lynch and/or shoot BM?!), your "suspicion" of marvellosity is that he is shutting down discussion at a time he was GENERATING discussion. You also don't like ShiaoPi for some unspecified reasons. You are therefore casting suspicion without real reason on:
- Me: confirmed town
- VE: slight town read
- Marvellosity: quite a strong town read, despite the bad lynch. The way he brought the lynch together was imho very townie.
- ShiaoPi: slight town read
I'd be happy to look into any of the 3 players if you tell me what you think is scummy, but saying "you're shutting down discussion when he isn't" or "I don't like your posts" is trying to take away momentum from town players and creating a bad atmosphere. That is scum agenda point number 1.
3. Your scumhunting is limited to making connection cases. The only case that isn't a connection case is suggesting grush for a lurker lynch. I say above what I think about grush. However, it's a pretty damned easy case to make. It was also at a time to create MORE chaos in a thread that was consolidating on a lynch (however badly that turned out). Adding candidates 1 hour before the deadline is a terrible idea unless someone suddenly stands out as obvious scum. Grush didn't do that, it was just another lurker to be added to the list. Why? To make the votecount even more dispersed and less useful than it is now? For somoene who likes connection cases this is fucking weird: the strongest connnections are votes.
4. Your voting behaviour.
You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK:
On July 01 2012 21:45 Vivax wrote:
##unvote
##Vote mKmKmK
Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post:
+ Show Spoiler [Vivax defending mK] +On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote:
Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?"
1. The scum claim you adressed.
I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment.
Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all.
I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie.
2. His low activity after that post
I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role.
That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him.
3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim.
A blue role could react like that, too.
___________________________________________
I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him.
Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides.
So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote).
In closing, you're scum
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Just saw I posted as kingdedede. Kingdedede is me (SSB game).
Also, ET is making sense and people should listen to him. ET, what do you think of Vivax and layabout?
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I have subtly hinted twice now that I think your topic of discussion is WIFOM central and going nowhere really fast. Of COURSE I want to change its direction.
1. Mattchew wasn't the driving factor behind the Fox lynch
2. Mattchew is a good player. If he's scum, there will be scum on his list and a priori assuming everybody is town is bullshit.
3. Assuming there's scum motives for moving off BKE ignores most of what happened in D1. BKE was starting to post coherently. The case against him is based on his very early actions and his lack of scumhunting. I think we should give him a chance to rectify that second and see what he comes up with. In general, connection cases are TERRIBLE until you flip a scum and can actually connect to a confirmed scum.
ET was pointing this out, therefore he was making sense. Stopping town from wifom'ing themselves in circles is NOT bad play.
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On July 02 2012 18:20 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 18:15 Acrofales wrote:
Just saw I posted as kingdedede. Kingdedede is me (SSB game).
Also, ET is making sense and people should listen to him. ET, what do you think of Vivax and layabout? Funny that you mention layabout, because I thought that it was odd that he said "move foxtrot up the kill list", but was completely AWOL for the switch. It seems like something that he would've liked to get moving if he believed foxtrot to be scum, since it was clear BKE was not going to be lynched. Need to do a re-read of him tomorrow. He feels odd, but layabout often posts sort of scummy (citation, TL LII jubjub). Vivax is more curious; while I disagree with a lot of his logic, I still have him in the null category because a lot of his reactions can be explained from a townie perspective. I'm actually sleeping. Acro, I really hope your buddying is coming from a good place because I could really use it atm. Tell me what you think of s0Lstice?
I am cautiously leaning town on him. He made some good contributions in D1. Also
On July 02 2012 08:30 s0Lstice wrote:
@marv--Yea I did that already. I'm not voting for someone until I read their shit myself, recently.
I'm not sure that one post makes him more scummy than mK, but it certainly doesn't look great. Our problem if we want to switch is there are 7 votes on BKE right now. If those people aren't here to switch, it's possible he will be the guy if we get off mK. That I don't like at all.
indicates a pro-active attitude in scumhunting, which I like. Why you asking me for my townreads at night? 
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Okay, lets do it your way. Lets assume mK is town and BKE and Mattchew are scum.
At the time the Fox lynch was proposed mK was set to be lynched, at 10 votes to 7. What reason does a scum Mattchew or Marvellosity have to push forward another townie to be sacrificed? It actually increased the chances of scumbuddy BKE getting lynched. This makes NO SENSE.
When you can explain how your reasoning works, I may be willing to listen to you.
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On July 02 2012 18:42 drwiggl3s wrote:I'd agree if I wasn't so sure that this thread will be spammed up with mafia posting about their "reads" and "leans" and etc. while ignoring the main point being made here. I'll have to settle in for the night and return to this in the morning. If your town, read what was said here.
Lol. Reverse wifom! Scum is known to be quiet during the night. So to switch it up, they will be active and promote discussion by scumhunting during the night, just so town gets confused and thinks scum is town and town is scum!
/facepalm.
No talking during the night is a bad idea. Not giving town reads during the night is generally a good idea (one that I have quite rigorously broken already). However, posting ass-backwards wifom is never a good idea, night OR day.
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On July 02 2012 18:49 Vivax wrote:Poor poor acrofales. Posting such a huge case and then he gets zero attention for it I'll give you some: Get your things straight, thinking I'd be mafia is ridiculous.Let's string up people for the FT mislynch.I told you the cases against him were bullshit and more of a policy lynch than anything else. That said, marv, I don't see you drawing conclusions after his death, but you criticisized mine before his death for being premature. You contribute zero to town except for causing bandwagons, and your posts are numerous, but not helpful. I'll anticipate what I'm gonna do day2. ##Vote marvellosity
Don't worry, I'll push it when people start waking up. DrWiggl3s burying it in spam is not making you look any better either.
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EPT
