EPT1) I only quoted a part of his post, but the part where Golden consistently mentions WhySoMuch. There’s WIFOM about mafia’s nightt shot, a defensive discredit of WhySoMuch’s claims against Golden, and general comments about suspicion towards WSM’s play.
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 30 2012 10:27 O.Golden_ne wrote:
Day Two:
This is a solid read, please re-read it as it has alot of analysis and i don't want any of it missed....
I think that the reason they shot him was because while he may not have been a provider of new idea's, he was a provider of solid voting. Shooting an idea-provider would be greatly substantial for the Mafia in the early game so why didn't they? WhySoMuch could have been an ideal target and he even noted it himself so he binged out idea's in the night time. I thought that perhaps if WhySoMuch was shot than i would consider his idea's posted to be given a little more credence than i have (read below), but that is moot as he hasn't been shot.
THIS the fact that he wasn't shot makes him slightly suspicious, as who would be able to spew ideas in the night time and not get shot? Perhaps a Mafia who want's to incriminate someone who has been contributing to the group with a 'legitimate nightime argument' without any contest. This is highly strange behaviour. He wasn't sniped, and his idea has gone uncontested. If WhySoMuch was mafia and his position on me was known in Day 1 and i was sniped he would be considered suspicious. So he gave his idea's hoping they will be absorbed on the record, but unchallenged and so he could use them for his benefit at a later date ("oh woops we sniped a townie, what? justify why he's my target? WELL, i commented about him at night, surely he would have sniped me") all the while sniping a solid voter town.
My opinion of WhySoMuch and his vote on me.
You've tried very hard to set yourself up as the 'Champion of the Veriat lynch', however as i see it you voted 3 times yesterday within rapid succession. Then by admitting 'your townies' had voted for another player you jumped on a bandwagon, which i see as very loose play. By doing that you 'won over' a cheap sort of allegiance with these players, you seem to be trying to foster some surface level friendships with these players and then persecute me for not quickly jumping between 'bandwagons'. My vote on AcesAnoka was reasoned and explained and you've belittled it with this style of play. Yes, Veriat was mafia. Yes, i didn't change vote quickly. Is it more suspect to change votes quickly just before lynch time if you've explained your stance in great detail previously? I feel my style has been efficient in gathering information on players. I also feel that had i changed quickly you would have found me suspicious also. I was going to change votes in due course and i did, which was explained in my posts which you never seem to comprehend.
You worry me, you don't read very deeply into the game or into other peoples posts. I have had trouble with many of your responses to questions asked of you in regards to content and your stubborn attitude. I've answered your suspicions of me and you seem very against me. This stubborn attitude should be alleviated and you should read deeper into everyone's posts not just people who don't emerge on your core group of villagers. Please keep your vote on me until you decide with a little more consideration who is Mafia, because i assure you with 100% conviction i am Town, and that i am an asset to the Town.
On a side note that you've said there is a 'core group of villages emerging' with little explanation of this town list (Bar the_zen_man) compared this to the depth your 'explanation' of your vote for me. This could be worrisome as mafia could easily slip into your Town list. Your initial justification of your vote against Veriat was fairly slim which you rectified with some loose quoting, but lynching him wasn't because of your pressure on me. If you create a group of innocents in your mind please dont let this cloud your 'bull in a china shop' analysis of players.
Day Two:
This is a solid read, please re-read it as it has alot of analysis and i don't want any of it missed....
I think that the reason they shot him was because while he may not have been a provider of new idea's, he was a provider of solid voting. Shooting an idea-provider would be greatly substantial for the Mafia in the early game so why didn't they? WhySoMuch could have been an ideal target and he even noted it himself so he binged out idea's in the night time. I thought that perhaps if WhySoMuch was shot than i would consider his idea's posted to be given a little more credence than i have (read below), but that is moot as he hasn't been shot.
THIS the fact that he wasn't shot makes him slightly suspicious, as who would be able to spew ideas in the night time and not get shot? Perhaps a Mafia who want's to incriminate someone who has been contributing to the group with a 'legitimate nightime argument' without any contest. This is highly strange behaviour. He wasn't sniped, and his idea has gone uncontested. If WhySoMuch was mafia and his position on me was known in Day 1 and i was sniped he would be considered suspicious. So he gave his idea's hoping they will be absorbed on the record, but unchallenged and so he could use them for his benefit at a later date ("oh woops we sniped a townie, what? justify why he's my target? WELL, i commented about him at night, surely he would have sniped me") all the while sniping a solid voter town.
My opinion of WhySoMuch and his vote on me.
You've tried very hard to set yourself up as the 'Champion of the Veriat lynch', however as i see it you voted 3 times yesterday within rapid succession. Then by admitting 'your townies' had voted for another player you jumped on a bandwagon, which i see as very loose play. By doing that you 'won over' a cheap sort of allegiance with these players, you seem to be trying to foster some surface level friendships with these players and then persecute me for not quickly jumping between 'bandwagons'. My vote on AcesAnoka was reasoned and explained and you've belittled it with this style of play. Yes, Veriat was mafia. Yes, i didn't change vote quickly. Is it more suspect to change votes quickly just before lynch time if you've explained your stance in great detail previously? I feel my style has been efficient in gathering information on players. I also feel that had i changed quickly you would have found me suspicious also. I was going to change votes in due course and i did, which was explained in my posts which you never seem to comprehend.
You worry me, you don't read very deeply into the game or into other peoples posts. I have had trouble with many of your responses to questions asked of you in regards to content and your stubborn attitude. I've answered your suspicions of me and you seem very against me. This stubborn attitude should be alleviated and you should read deeper into everyone's posts not just people who don't emerge on your core group of villagers. Please keep your vote on me until you decide with a little more consideration who is Mafia, because i assure you with 100% conviction i am Town, and that i am an asset to the Town.
On a side note that you've said there is a 'core group of villages emerging' with little explanation of this town list (Bar the_zen_man) compared this to the depth your 'explanation' of your vote for me. This could be worrisome as mafia could easily slip into your Town list. Your initial justification of your vote against Veriat was fairly slim which you rectified with some loose quoting, but lynching him wasn't because of your pressure on me. If you create a group of innocents in your mind please dont let this cloud your 'bull in a china shop' analysis of players.
Under the spoiler, there’s a lot of stuff. I personally thought that Golden was leading up to a vote/FOS at this point. Here it is;
+ Show Spoiler +
@WhySoMuch: I am not suspicious of you as mafia. I think you are a very surface level thinking, stubborn and aggressive town. Please explain N1 to me.
@People who may consider WhySoMuch suspicious: In his defence, while he may have some contradictory and flip-flop opinions towards the end of day one and had a very strong conviction to get a lynch he was much more active and aggressive than i would expect even of an aggressive mafia....
So Golden took all that typing to get here. WSM is suspicious but don’t be suspicious of him because we shouldn’t be suspicious he's actually unsuspicious? ??? What’s the point of throwing all that guesswork “re-read this analysis” around, if there was no point to it? I asked Golden to clarify his stance on WSM, but he never did. I think this is scummy, because what's the point? A vote or FOS would force WSM (or others) to defend at the very least. But all it does is pull the reader in a circle, and Golden can stick with a safe read.
2)Then there's this;
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 01 2012 11:23 O.Golden_ne wrote:
@marvellosity regards to your discussion with WhySoMuch:
The worst part for me is that i get a town read from him, i've wasted a lot of my input trying to get his head in the game.
Thoughts...
Here are some queries i have before i do another mind-splurge on this thread.
1. Nreekay324
You posted a decent argument against Jailbreaker in a spoiler on your D1 Summary post. Nreekay324's Filter
What would it take to change your vote from AcesAnoka (marvellosity) in the same post, to Jailbreaker? I feel like your argument against Jailbreaker looks stronger than this one against AcesAnoka (marvellosity):
2. marvellosity
You've shown a much deeper level of perception that AcesAnoka ever did, and it's exactly what you'll need to keep doing to stay in the game. I feel if you can maintain few solid posts with little contradiction you may have earnt your character's standing in the game. You've certainly grilled WhySoMuch on a fair portion of his logic, however i can't help but wonder if this is scapegoating because you do need to establish yourself within the team and he is certainly an unusual character. I have my own thoughts on him which i've shared, and i think he holds a unique position within the group as a finger pointer now that yomi's voice has been nullified.
3. Mordanis
I want your analysis of Nreekay324's connections to other players.
4. WhySoMuch
Can you explain Jailbreakers connections to other players in the group in a list? thx
Thank you in advance for your timely responses.
Golden.
@marvellosity regards to your discussion with WhySoMuch:
The worst part for me is that i get a town read from him, i've wasted a lot of my input trying to get his head in the game.
Thoughts...
Here are some queries i have before i do another mind-splurge on this thread.
1. Nreekay324
You posted a decent argument against Jailbreaker in a spoiler on your D1 Summary post. Nreekay324's Filter
What would it take to change your vote from AcesAnoka (marvellosity) in the same post, to Jailbreaker? I feel like your argument against Jailbreaker looks stronger than this one against AcesAnoka (marvellosity):
2. marvellosity
You've shown a much deeper level of perception that AcesAnoka ever did, and it's exactly what you'll need to keep doing to stay in the game. I feel if you can maintain few solid posts with little contradiction you may have earnt your character's standing in the game. You've certainly grilled WhySoMuch on a fair portion of his logic, however i can't help but wonder if this is scapegoating because you do need to establish yourself within the team and he is certainly an unusual character. I have my own thoughts on him which i've shared, and i think he holds a unique position within the group as a finger pointer now that yomi's voice has been nullified.
3. Mordanis
I want your analysis of Nreekay324's connections to other players.
4. WhySoMuch
Can you explain Jailbreakers connections to other players in the group in a list? thx
Thank you in advance for your timely responses.
Golden.
^This is after marvellosity joins us, before Jailbreaker's lynch. He nudges me to shift my vote to Jailbreaker (using my own argument nonetheless) and then points at people to do stuff. Again, where's his stance on anything? He's just pushing people to make analyses for him to look at so he can chose the best (perhaps, safest?) case to vote for. It seems like he feels he's established himself as a sort of town leader, and doesn't even need to add input at this point. Especially when people are saying stuff like this,
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 01 2012 16:00 Mordanis wrote:
Yes, sir, mister Golden, sir
First things first, I just realized that nreekay = Enrique...
Yeah...
Anyways
Nreekay has only really posted three things which can be evaluated, and of course I can analyze his vote. I'll begin with his first analytical post.....
Yes, sir, mister Golden, sir
First things first, I just realized that nreekay = Enrique...
Yeah...
Anyways
Nreekay has only really posted three things which can be evaluated, and of course I can analyze his vote. I'll begin with his first analytical post.....
(not a blow to you mordanis, i totally answered anything golden direected at me too)
What's his next post? Well this round's an easy mislynch for him, so let's vote and get on with it.
On May 01 2012 20:18 O.Golden_ne wrote:
##Vote: Jailbreaker
Can we get a vote count?
##Vote: Jailbreaker
Can we get a vote count?
Then jailbreaker mislynches, oh no;
On May 02 2012 10:24 O.Golden_ne wrote:
damnit, I'm less pissed off about lynching jail breaker as I am splinter going MIA....
RIP yomi
RIP jailbreaker
RIP splinter
Golden
damnit, I'm less pissed off about lynching jail breaker as I am splinter going MIA....
RIP yomi
RIP jailbreaker
RIP splinter
Golden
After getting some heat from D1 lynch, Golden had an opportunity to coast D2 (I don't think he said anything directly to/about jailbreaker the whole D2)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@puresc2- I found this interesting. Do you have any comments about lazer's previous play that will give a better feel for his play/personality in general? I was comparing these two posts,
On May 04 2012 18:40 Pure-SC2 wrote:
I'm conflicted though, as I was the person that led the lynch against Lazermonkey in my first mafia game for similar reasons, i.e., he had made what appeared to be obvious scum tells, and he became the obvious lynch (like Jailbreaker this game) and then he flips town.
I'm conflicted though, as I was the person that led the lynch against Lazermonkey in my first mafia game for similar reasons, i.e., he had made what appeared to be obvious scum tells, and he became the obvious lynch (like Jailbreaker this game) and then he flips town.
from jailbreaker
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 02 2012 04:18 Jailbreaker wrote:
NO NO NOOOOOO
Yes, I am a lurker. Barely have time to post with my boatload of homework!
Mordanis - Whats with all the hate?!?
"if we're wrong and he turns out to be town, we aren't going to lose much." Well yeah, if you are MAFIA.
Pure-SC2 - I've been in full panic mode when players started to point at me with suspicion. I have literally no idea how to defend myself.
"and no response at all to the cases made against him in conjunction with lurking, he makes by the far the best lynching candidate we have."
Splinter[eP] hasn't posted at all either, yet I'm the one with all the votes?
Lazermonkey - NOOOOOOOO
You're vote still matters bro. Just because i have majority, doesn't mean that you should just jump on the bandwagon.
##Vote: Pure-SC2
FOS Mordanis
NO NO NOOOOOO
Yes, I am a lurker. Barely have time to post with my boatload of homework!
Mordanis - Whats with all the hate?!?
"if we're wrong and he turns out to be town, we aren't going to lose much." Well yeah, if you are MAFIA.
Pure-SC2 - I've been in full panic mode when players started to point at me with suspicion. I have literally no idea how to defend myself.
"and no response at all to the cases made against him in conjunction with lurking, he makes by the far the best lynching candidate we have."
Splinter[eP] hasn't posted at all either, yet I'm the one with all the votes?
Lazermonkey - NOOOOOOOO
You're vote still matters bro. Just because i have majority, doesn't mean that you should just jump on the bandwagon.
##Vote: Pure-SC2
FOS Mordanis
From Lazer;
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 03 2012 15:55 Lazermonkey wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I have you as my highest scumreads atm.
What limits do you want? I'm 63% sure that you are scum atm?
+ Show Spoiler +
Because I'm scum or because I don't remember things. you choose!
+ Show Spoiler +
Because while his play was confusing in the start, I strongly felt his motives didn't match the ones of scum. And if he were townie, which I still think although I'm not as certain as I was one day ago, I think he should step up his posting alot.
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 03 2012 10:18 WhySoMuch wrote:
Conflicting tone in this post.
You are sure that there is one scum on Veriat, and you go on to say that 4 of the 7 people (2 are dead) are some degree of town reads, and yet, you are "Not sure about this guy at all" at me. Shouldn't you be fairly sure I am a mafia? And as such shouldn't you be willing to make a case on me.
And then you go on to not limit your options by adding the underlined clause.
Conflicting tone in this post.
You are sure that there is one scum on Veriat, and you go on to say that 4 of the 7 people (2 are dead) are some degree of town reads, and yet, you are "Not sure about this guy at all" at me. Shouldn't you be fairly sure I am a mafia? And as such shouldn't you be willing to make a case on me.
And then you go on to not limit your options by adding the underlined clause.
I have you as my highest scumreads atm.
What limits do you want? I'm 63% sure that you are scum atm?
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 03 2012 13:55 WhySoMuch wrote:
Can I ask you something sir.
How can you follow all the drama on your phone if you are asleep?
If you weren't asleep, then you very well could have changed your vote but you didn't.
Either way you are lieing somewhere here. So why are you lieing?
I can already feel today being a good day. This is gonna get better btw. this is just the start
Can I ask you something sir.
How can you follow all the drama on your phone if you are asleep?
If you weren't asleep, then you very well could have changed your vote but you didn't.
Either way you are lieing somewhere here. So why are you lieing?
I can already feel today being a good day. This is gonna get better btw. this is just the start
Because I'm scum or because I don't remember things. you choose!
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 03 2012 14:02 WhySoMuch wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
You just made an extremely long post criticizing everything that The_Zen_Man had done, You even say that he is being "overly defensive imo which is not standard town play" and yet your conclusion is that he is "just town". How is that possible?
Then your last line you say you " don't think his play looks like town, but it doesn't look like scum either", yet you still call him a town. Why are you afraid to call him mafia, you laid out almost a whole case on him and still you think he's town? it doesn't make sense.
Also your phrasing of "just town". What do you mean by this?
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 06:30 Lazermonkey wrote:
@The_Zen_Man
+ Show Spoiler +
I feel you are just not reading/being stupid once again here. Alot of things in this post are plain wrong.
Both of the votes on AcesAnoka(or at least Yomi's, can't say too much about nreekay324 yet) were not serious. There was never a possibilty of bandwagoning here.
No you wouldn't. Having two people out of a sudden sharing their opinions on a weak case would make you look scummy as hell. It's a common way to play scum, you split your opinions. So this doesn't prove your innocence.
I even said in my post that my case on you and AcesAnoka being scumbros were a weak one. But the fact that you are still seem to think highly of Acec just makes me wonder more.
Once again you post a somewhat confused post. It's like you aren't reading the posts well enough because you seem to miss alot of what is happening. You are still being overly defensive imo, which is not standard town play. And you always attack the one who are suspicious of you. First WhySoMuch, then nreekay324 and last me. Have it actually struck you that we might not be suspicious of you because we are scum but rather that we actually think your play is strange?
Overall I still think your just town. I don't think your play looks like town, but it doesn't look like scum either.
Going to bed now, will be much more active tommorow!
@The_Zen_Man
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 05:41 The_Zen_Man wrote:
@Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. + Show Spoiler +
That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
@Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. + Show Spoiler +
On April 28 2012 05:41 The_Zen_Man wrote:
@Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. And if AcesAnoka would want to go for a bandwagon on someone, why not whysomuch, who already had 2 votes on him? That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
@Lazermonkey In that post a merely stated some of my opinions on some players.I posted several other similliar opinions on some other players. And concerning how i like how AcesAnoka put a pressure vote on yomi is because i liked it. We were all thinking why yomi voted, but we needed a statement from him. Also, the vote would tell us more why nreekay324 voted for whysomuch. And if AcesAnoka would want to go for a bandwagon on someone, why not whysomuch, who already had 2 votes on him? That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
That seems to me like a town behavior. Also, if i was his "scumbro", wouldnt i support his voting on yomi before? Not vote with him or something, just some few posts about it. And yet i haven't done that.
The reason for my defensive stance is beacuse i've had to explain some suspicions on me, not really any more than that. If you read my filter, you would know that. It seems like you are trying to find suspicious behavior on me, and you are not afraid on going far in your accusations. You did manage to inflate a few comments on AcesAnoka to me being his "scumbro" .Is it because on of your scum-buddies got some heat and you are trying to direct eveyones attention elsewhere? nreekay324 for example has been getting some heat lately.
Atm im not sure about you, you haven't posted enough for me to be sure of you.
I feel you are just not reading/being stupid once again here. Alot of things in this post are plain wrong.
Both of the votes on AcesAnoka(or at least Yomi's, can't say too much about nreekay324 yet) were not serious. There was never a possibilty of bandwagoning here.
No you wouldn't. Having two people out of a sudden sharing their opinions on a weak case would make you look scummy as hell. It's a common way to play scum, you split your opinions. So this doesn't prove your innocence.
I even said in my post that my case on you and AcesAnoka being scumbros were a weak one. But the fact that you are still seem to think highly of Acec just makes me wonder more.
Once again you post a somewhat confused post. It's like you aren't reading the posts well enough because you seem to miss alot of what is happening. You are still being overly defensive imo, which is not standard town play. And you always attack the one who are suspicious of you. First WhySoMuch, then nreekay324 and last me. Have it actually struck you that we might not be suspicious of you because we are scum but rather that we actually think your play is strange?
Overall I still think your just town. I don't think your play looks like town, but it doesn't look like scum either.
Going to bed now, will be much more active tommorow!
You just made an extremely long post criticizing everything that The_Zen_Man had done, You even say that he is being "overly defensive imo which is not standard town play" and yet your conclusion is that he is "just town". How is that possible?
Then your last line you say you " don't think his play looks like town, but it doesn't look like scum either", yet you still call him a town. Why are you afraid to call him mafia, you laid out almost a whole case on him and still you think he's town? it doesn't make sense.
Also your phrasing of "just town". What do you mean by this?
Because while his play was confusing in the start, I strongly felt his motives didn't match the ones of scum. And if he were townie, which I still think although I'm not as certain as I was one day ago, I think he should step up his posting alot.
I mean, I don't know how much I should be reading into this here, but both seem to be pretty upset about being voted/targeted, and they both throw out suspicions at other people. What I'm trying to figure out is, how genuine is Lazer's apologetic post? I'm not sure what to make of it. I'm leaning towards believing it because his this post really felt panicky. Was he panicky for being scum or town or blue, I'm not sure... but I think I'm starting to walk into WIFOM;
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On May 05 2012 01:22 marvellosity wrote:
Yeah. The problem comes because Golden can't defend himself. So we're left with:
1) we lynch sexfiend/golden on the strength of my case (and other's suspicions) and that's that
2) we let him off because he isn't golden
Both scenarios are a long way from ideal.
Yeah. The problem comes because Golden can't defend himself. So we're left with:
1) we lynch sexfiend/golden on the strength of my case (and other's suspicions) and that's that
2) we let him off because he isn't golden
Both scenarios are a long way from ideal.
Indeed, but I think 2 is worse, or further from ideal, than 1. The way I see it is the case against the guy before Marv, Aces was that he was a lurker. And although Aces were suspicious, it was agreeable that there wasn't a strong enough case on Aces to pursue Marv (lurking was bad, but it was only the beginning). However, I think the case against golden is pretty solid, AND if we let sexdoll off and golden/sexdoll IS mafia, then we have roughly a day for misguiding/distraction by sexdoll.
