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imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
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imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
As for Maju, I think the post about Daniel being either blue or scum is stupid but doesn't strike me as scummy play. Why would scum tell everyone who they want to kill. Is a bit over defensive at yomi's baseless accusations but that could just be him being new to the game. Arctic posted a ton of suggestions but didn't actually post anything of real worth. It's certainly something to keep an eye on because it's an easy way for scum to look like they are helping. | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
insectoceanx Has barely posted apart from the case against Zealos. Can't get a good read on him yet. St.Daniel Posts a weak case against Dream then backs up on it later. His non-committal to anything seems a little suspicious. Dracolich70 I'm finding the defence of yomi and attack on maju, following yomi and Zealos, fairly suspicious. He's my # 3 scum read behind yomi and Zealos. MajuGarzett Hasn't posted much content apart from the case against yomi. Not sure on my read of him yet. oneplus Makes a few weak cases against people but never says anything concrete. This seems a bit scummy to me. nreekay324 Has made good cases against yomi and Zealos. Seems to be wanting to scumhunt which makes me think he is town. mutant The only real case he has made so far has been against yomi who is a fairly easy target at the moment. However his case is solid. I have a neutral read on him so far. ArcticFox He has been perfectly willing to post his thoughts about other people and make cases against the ones he thinks are scummy. Seems fairly town to me. Zealos Early on he complains about people looking like they are contributing while they aren't actually helping. The he proceeds to do just that. Then he makes a half hearted accusation of maju. The point about policy talk isn't important because apart from the one post suggesting it he leaves it be. The attacks against his case against yomi make very little sense to me because the points he brought up about yomi are perfectly valid yet Zealos dismisses them as nonsense. He strikes me as very suspicious but not enough yet to vote for him. ForTheDr3am He has posted good cases throughout the day and seems to want to help the town scum hunt. He seems fairly town in my eyes. yomi First off this post makes no sense hey bros. I'm not 100% convinced that we should lynch day1. but if we do ##vote: majugarzett This has been mentioned by everyone else and seems to be the main reason for people voting for him. While I agree that it makes no sense I don't think it makes him scummy. Honestly I can't see a reason why scum or town would jump on someone so early. Given just this post I'd put it down to bad play. However the random aggressiveness towards anyone calling him out on it makes me much more suspicious. The asking everyone to post their previous games is strange. If you actually wanted to read through people's previous games you would just go and do it, especially given that the people in this game will have at most 2 other games. This seems to me to be trying to look like he is contributing. He then tries to defend his vote for maju and doesn't do very well at it. "Why not" isn't a sufficient answer and I'm not buying the pressure vote excuse. It was such a baseless accusation that maju would never felt any real pressure. Again this feels like someone trying to look like he is contributing while not doing anything of the sort. The case against Arctic is terrible and the case and vote against me is based entirely on one meta argument and is just a thinly veiled suggestion of a lynch all lurkers policy. #FoS: Zealos Vote: yomi | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
Did that wrong. ##Vote: yomi | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 18:23 Dracolich70 wrote: Hi, so the game got finally started. I have read through the posts, and thus far we have this: - Lynch could be good. It weeds out lurkers, whom must/can be scum". - Being dunce is valid for targeting. - A good discussion is good, it nearly got a scum on day 1 in another game. - Yomi and Maju accusing each other. - Zealous accusing Maju, which results in ArticFox and nreekay324 thinking Zealous is scummy. - Dream stating the validity of good discussions, while he states he will not be around for deadlines. - Those who post are less scummy. It may because I am a rookie, but it all seems very muddy. And to me, people stating "In the last game..." makes me think that a person knowing the behaviorism of both parties can emulate either one, and as such manipulate to their fitting. And while being aggressive can get this party started, it makes me feel some eager to muddy up the place with "information" on the basis of accusing left and right. It it works, it must be based on luck, if you ask me. I am okay with a d1 lynch, IF it is on the basis of valid information. His first post is just a summation of the thread so far. This screams of trying to look like you are contributing + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 00:41 Dracolich70 wrote: I am pretty sure I didn't say such a thing. I am pretty sure that was the direct opposite of what I said. I am also pretty certain I have stated that I feel that a lot of people are just pointing fingers left and right for the most part, and seemingly this is going to continue. However, I am not going about be the front runner in a lynch mob, when I feel this way still, and joining in with the finger-pointing. This being said, if you want something, then I think yomi is acting a bit weird to say the least. The only thing I think I agree with him on is the uncertainty of d1 lynches. For the most part he has responded with complete disinterest, and awkward behavior and responses, when responding. If it is something he does, when scum, or it's because he is one-dimensional, I do not know. Or even if it makes him scum. Other than that I don't see a lot of substance. This post is saying people should stop pointing fingers at each other, basically that they should stop scum hunting as much. This is followed by airing suspicions of yomi who was the easy target all day. + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 01:24 Dracolich70 wrote: The list was trying to draw a picture of how I feel the events thus far. Which is either guided by paranoia, or as a initiator for debate(?). I am not sure if this is the right way, as it can clutter the thread mightily quickly. If you feel it is content less, then it is because most of the accusations are pretty weak. It was pretty much the highlights, as I see it. I just said that knowing the behavior of either one, makes it easier to manipulate, and right now, I feel/fear some are trying to manipulate the course of actions with pointing fingers left and right. He defends his summation of events as trying to start conversation. This isn't true because restating conversations that have already happened doesn't get new conversations started it just keeps people stuck in old ones. He is also trying to hide behind his newbness. + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 01:24 Dracolich70 wrote: I don't know if it is rocket science, but if we all take turns to point fingers at 2-3 in each of our posts, and they in turn do the same, it gets pretty muddied. Isn't saying "pointing too many accusations will muddy up the place" something logical? Sorry, it is to me. I have still said I am okay with a lynch, however I am not a supporter of just lynching someone to make something happen. And as I stated - I am very open to valid information. Is this the part where I should point fingers at you? This again makes no sense. If everyone had pointed fingers at 2-3 random people then yes it would muddy the thread but that isn't the case. Most of the finger pointing was aimed at Yomi, Zealos and Maju. This is actually useful information. + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote: Or it could just be a list of things that happened as I saw it when I opened up the thread for the first time, and saw people were already at each other with very little substance in their hand to guide them. The highlights are pretty accurate, I believe. Highlights don't muddy threads, but clearify. I bet mafia likes obfuscation, what do you think? I find it problematic for instance that you hope for good discussions, and then you bark at every tree you can find, and trying to suggest what people should be posting to be of use to you. Is that in relation with you not being around on deadlines, and want to control events? The highlights don't clarify anything that wasn't already clear. If you can go through the thread in 10 minutes and sum it up so can everyone else. + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 18:30 Dracolich70 wrote: 1) Maju: Firstly he starts by offering both a question and a suggestion, "Should we lynch lurkers? I think we should." now that he has posted, it seems like a suspect way of trying to not let suspicion fall onto him, and reaching consensus, which he offers soon after. In fact stating it is more important that generating discussions. "Well the main purpose was to get a consensus on how things should be done, generating discussion is just another benefit." Secondly he responds to Zealos offer, " He's right, no lynch = really bad.", with "I agree that we should lynch someone. The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia." (more on this below). Thirdly when yomi votes for him, he immediately counter-accuses yomi, with this: "Yomi seems suspicious to me. He says he isn't sure about lynching someone then votes when no one else has. That makes it more likely someone will be lynched. Also, he gave no reasons as to why I should be lynched. This makes me think he's a mafia who just wants to get some townie lynched." I see a problem with this on multiple levels. First off, he offers consensus as the most important thing, but doesn't register that yomi is willing to bow down for this very consensus if it is as such. He asks for reasonable things from yomi - things he himself does not offer in return, when it comes to st. Daniel for the weak reason of him asking for help in a newbie game, much like he even did before Daniel, and I am "dumbfounded" as to why he did this. Lastly, that on one hand he offers to Zealos that we should lynch someone, but then uses the exact same reasoning against yomi as suspect. If we should suspect yomi on these things, then it should be more so with Maju. At best Maju is hypocritical. Soon after we find statements such as this: "Furthermore, you're pressuring people to lynch someone who you so far have proposed no case against and when many people have not yet posted. To me this hints at you being mafia as you just want to get someone who you know isn't mafia lynched as fast as possible.", "It is, I just wanted to get clarification on the source of Daniel's statement since it could help tell if dr3am is mafia.", "I just meant he might be mafia or he might be a detective or medic or something."(concerning lurkers, something he doesn't consider is on yomis mind), ": I realise I may have phrased that poorly earlier", "Yeah, I realise now that I didn't really think that through." Maybe the best answers can be found here: "Yes, I guess I was posting defensively. I did this not because I was mafia, but because yomi's was the first vote, and Zealos, one of the only others who had posted at that point, was accusing me of being scummy. I was fearful that yomi's ideas may gain traction early on so I was trying to highlight that your vote had no substance.". Why would he be fearful 1) as a townie. 2) That yomis near no-reason posts would gain traction? The difference between Maju and Yomi was that Maju never said Daniel was scum and didn't vote for him so it's not him being hypocritical. I'm not really sure why you posted a load of quotes from Maju without any explanation. If you think they make him scummy explain why. The final point about town not being scared of getting lynched is invalid as well town don't want to get lynched just as much as scum. Also that early on in a game it's impossible to tell what town will latch onto for a lynch. Defending yourself even from a null case is perfectly valid. + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 18:30 Dracolich70 wrote: 2) Yomi. I am conflicted on yomi. On one hand he offers some of the same fears that I have with not giving away too much information, when it comes to roles, but more importantly it was this that caught my immediate attention on him: " it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said.", which is something I myself have tried to avoid, and thought was happening right off the bat. The bad things are that like Maju, he is of little use at best, if he doesn't aid town in some way. He is constantly evasive, and reluctant to answer questions directly, ie "Can everyone post how many games they've played in (on this or other sites) and what they were in those other games (if it's just a few). And links to the games.", and him under the belief that day 1 doesn't provide any useful information/reading options. To it seems like he doesn't really care, if we catch scum or not. And for the most part, we see him not willing to offer anything, on the contrary. I am not sure if I should put too much into him playing this way as scum, but it can't be a positive thing. This is a very soft defence of Yomi. Both this and the bad case against Maju make me think Draco is scum trying to get town cred when Yomi flips town. There is more posts along the same line later on. More defence of his first two posts where he keeps pushing less scumhunting: On April 25 2012 15:12 Dracolich70 wrote: I had written an analysis on the little you had written, but I found it counter-productive, when some had already taken the "scum-hunt"-cap on. 12 scumhunters makes it easy for Mafia to hide in the "I said, you said. I find you scummy". For the most part I have spent time trying to explain an opening post to you. Then some more on his case against Maju which doesn't add anything to make it any good and adds more soft defence of Yomi. This fits well into the trying to get town cred from Yomi's flip. ##Vote: Dracolich70 | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 27 2012 01:33 ArcticFox wrote: Did anyone else laugh incredibly hard at this series of events? I couldn't help it. I laughed only to not cry. XD Any opinions on people other than Dracolich (Stossel now)? What are your thoughts on Zealos? oneplus? Any other scum reads you have that we should be made aware of? Yeah that was unfortunate. It makes my case against him impossible for the replacement to defend. Zealos I still think is fairly scummy. He hasn't posted much of worth and made a bad case against Maju while defending Yomi. Simmilar to Draco's posting. Oneplus defends Yomi but has actually contributed a decent amount. Posts his reads and I like his analysis of the voting on Yomi. He is leaning town in my eyes. | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
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imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 30 2012 04:00 MajuGarzett wrote: Once you get a chance to read through stuff can you post your responses to the cases against you? Hopefully that will give people something to discuss. Well the case against me seems to basically be that I'm lurking, which I have explained, and not posting any strong views on people. The only person I had a strong read on was Draco but he was replaced so can't answer to that and his replacement has posted nothing besides a case against me and Zealos who are easy targets. I was very suspicious of Zealos Day 1 and Day 2 he was still suspicious to me but behind Draco. His posting has been better as the game has gone on so I'm starting to think he might be town, he is one of the people actually contributing. However, he is still very defensive and suggests some stuff that seems bad for the town so I'm still reasonably suspicious of him. I wasn't sure about Daniel and Mutant before they were replaced and their replacements haven't posted anything yet they could easily be scum but I can't make a case against them. Dream seems to be contributing as does Oneplus which makes me think they are town however seeing as there is so little posting in general it would be easy for scum to hide in a middle ground posting wise. Maju I'm really not sure on because it looks like he is contributing but his only real cases are against me and Zealos, again easy targets, so I think he might be trying to hide behind other people's cases. Insect I'm fairly sure is town. He contributes a lot and if he keeps up the good posting from earlier then he is probably my top town read at the moment. If there is any specific case you want me to answer I'll be happy to. | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 30 2012 12:37 insectoceanx wrote: Well what I posted is most everything I had thought of regarding him, plus what others have said. Without him having posted anything it is really hard to come up with anything else. It seems he may have been defending his voting for yomi by saying that draco was being defending yomi just to get town cred. I wasn't trying to say voting Yomi was either bad or good just that defending Yomi, knowing he is town, is an easy way for scum to get some town cred. It alone wouldn't make me think someone was scum but I can see it fitting someone's scum play. Also I wasn't trying to defend my vote for Yomi because there wasn't really any need to. There were perfectly valid reasons to vote for Yomi, if there weren't he wouldn't have got 7 votes. | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 30 2012 07:52 MajuGarzett wrote: EBWOP You really haven't explained why you haven't had much information. Also,why would a change of players negate your read. The new player has the same role as the old one. It doesn't negate my read but it makes it impossible for the replacement to defend any cases made against them because the posting wan't theirs. So my suspicion of Draco transfers to Stossel but I am bearing in mind that Stossel can't defend Draco's posts. If he starts posting more pro-town then my suspicions will be lower. | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 30 2012 21:22 insectoceanx wrote: We all need consensus to get a lynch through, as stossel said above me, sticking to the plan is important as What exactly is the plan. Because if it is blindly going along the same path as yesterday that isn't helpful. Along with this On April 30 2012 10:50 insectoceanx wrote: Also, since the replacements did not vote, the mafia must be someone who is still active. Your recent posting doesn't make much sense unless you are trying to get town to blindly follow you into lynching an easy town target (me). | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
He's almost made it his job to be useless to town. Had absolutely no opinion on anybody in town in his big summary post ("seems town, seems scum, null read, might be scum" etc etc -- you can check his filter and read it, it's not hard to find in his 4 posts), except for yomi, who he bandwagoned onto very easily. He had an FoS on Zealos after that, then decided to make his 3rd post on....Dracolich? He has volunteered no other opinions seperate from when I asked him directly about Zealos and oneplus, and his post there was STILL the "leaning town" and "fairly scummy" non-commital posting style he's done. My summary was Day 1 and given the quietness of the thread it would have been hard to make any definite claims about people that early. If I had said I'm sure x is scum then nobody would listen because I'm obviously talking crap. In general I don't like saying people are definitely scum unless it's actually that obvious. Day 1 I was sure Yomi was scum which is why I voted for him and the same Day 2 with Draco. I'm still sure Stossel is scum. ##Vote: Stossel imallinson has been heavily lurking this game. With 5 days of play gone he has only made 5 posts. Of these, the first post essentially mentioned two players and said that he was unsure of either of them. This added nothing to the game. His first act of any gravity was to vote for yomi but this vote was one of the last votes cast and yomi was already the most likely choice to get lynched.At this point voting for yomi was an extremely safe move for mafia as it was a common choice and a townie would be lynched. Now that we know yomi was townie this vote becomes more suspicious. Alone it might not be much but combined with the lurking and lack of solid posting it becomes suspicious. Looking back at the accusation against yomi, it initially seems to have content but reeally the only thing he used against yomi was I personally see this accusation: as rather weak. My case against Yomi wasn't the strongest but it was intended to be adding to the cases made by others. Imallinson recently contributed new ideas with his voting for Dracho (Gossemerr). We can see though that all the information used against Dracho in this post was posted before imallinson's initial list of reads. Why, imallinson, was none of this observed earlier? Also, Dracho was initially imallinson's third choice for scum behind yomi and Zealos. After yomi died Dracho suddenly moved up to first choice over Zealos with no explanation why his suspicions over Zealos diminished. After imallinsons first content filled post he finger of suspicions' Zealos while all the evidence that he later uses to vote Dracholich has already been posted. Also, he posted a lot more evidence against Dracho then against yomi. Assuming allin read everyone's posts carefully, his initial vote should have been for Dracho with yomi as a second choice. Why did that not happen imallinson? It's mainly because I hadn't paid much attention to Draco Day 1. With Yomi posting so aggressively and the back and forth between you and him his posts didn't register. It was only after I went back over everyone's filters Day 2 that I noticed Draco. | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On May 01 2012 00:11 Zealos wrote: Because you irritate me big time. How dare you come back after being a complete lurker, only to call the only people who bothered keeping town active mafia. If you are going to vote for someone make a case for it. Saying someone irritates you isn't going to convince anyone to vote for them which means your vote will be a waste. | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
I'm not really understanding your voting. Why would people not voting not being counted make you change your vote? Before that I could understand voting for me over insect because I'm much more likely to get 5 votes without everyone voting. You changing your vote after that decision doesn't make much sense to me. It's not necessarily scummy but I can't make much sense of it. Care to explain? | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On May 01 2012 05:37 MajuGarzett wrote: ##Vote: imallinson Keeping my vote from last time. He still hasn't responded to one of the arguments I quoted and has lurked. I responded to both the posts you quoted. | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
##Unvote ##Vote: insectocenax | ||
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