On March 26 2012 05:59 Risen wrote: EBWOP: I think it's pretty clear, but scum love stuff like this so I'll reiterate what I mean by "We lynch acro and you get guaranteed scum on day 3." No that isn't a scum slip, I'm presenting to town what they do should acro flip town. It won't happen, but you don't know that, so I present it as a possibility.
Like here:
Risen is saying that if Acro is town, he is scum...
What town DT would ever say something like that? It completely ignores the possibility of both of them being town. Which is in itself retarded. Lynching Acro tells us nothing about Risen's alignment.
Of course, if Risen flips scum it's less likely Acro is scum. It doesn't make it impossible, just less likely.
On March 26 2012 06:34 Risen wrote: I'm done for a while. Can't keep arguing in circles. I think my logic is clear, you don't. It's over.
herp derp I wanted a rolechecker to check Mattchew herp derp without even checking that there was a rolechecker herp derp my logic makes sense no matter what you say herp derp despite the fact that you just showed it's complete shit herp derp herp
Sounds more like, "before I had the foresight to plan a DT claim I tried directing DTs into Mattchew and now I'm grasping at straws trying to make the statement make sense in retrospect"
There is nothing to suggest evantrees is scum because there very well could be two roleblockers, evantrees could be a veteran, evantrees could have been protected or jailed, and evantrees could be PGO. Since the OP states that roles can be on either side, it doesn't make a difference what evantrees's alignment is; we have no idea why he survived.
Just because SLJ wanted to shoot evantrees doesn't make him a good lynch. It might be a good idea to lynch him if Risen is somehow town, but Risen is the best choice today because there is clear analysis that supports him being scum.
Also, timing of the claim IS relevant. Scum generally claim earlier in the day than townies would, often in positions where normally townies would not feel as threatened. Don't believe me? Look at chaoser's DT claim from XLIV, or Palmar's cop claim from Some Mafia Game, or my jailkeeper claim from Mini X. In all of these situations mafia claim in a spot where it will shift potential lynch attention onto the target of their choice. From a mafia perspective it's all about buying time, and the longer town discussion is held up on false ideas and leads, the easier it is for the remaining mafia to hide.
If you've noticed, this claim has destroyed all discussion of any suspects outside of Risen and potentially Acro. If Risen flips scum we still have to find 3 more scum, and we have few leads from today. That's a win for scum if they thought Risen was going to die anyway.
On March 26 2012 08:10 wherebugsgo wrote: There is nothing to suggest evantrees is scum because there very well could be two roleblockers, evantrees could be a veteran, evantrees could have been protected or jailed, and evantrees could be PGO. Since the OP states that roles can be on either side, it doesn't make a difference what evantrees's alignment is; we have no idea why he survived.
I assumed players are informed if they take a hit, but perhaps this isn't a safe assumption to make. If that is the case, then evantrees would have claimed, meaning the only reasonable possibilities would be a scum evantrees, two roleblockers, or a lying wherebugsgo.
On March 26 2012 08:10 wherebugsgo wrote: Also, timing of the claim IS relevant. Scum generally claim earlier in the day than townies would, often in positions where normally townies would not feel as threatened. Don't believe me? Look at chaoser's DT claim from XLIV, or Palmar's cop claim from Some Mafia Game, or my jailkeeper claim from Mini X. In all of these situations mafia claim in a spot where it will shift potential lynch attention onto the target of their choice. From a mafia perspective it's all about buying time, and the longer town discussion is held up on false ideas and leads, the easier it is for the remaining mafia to hide.
If you've noticed, this claim has destroyed all discussion of any suspects outside of Risen and potentially Acro. If Risen flips scum we still have to find 3 more scum, and we have few leads from today. That's a win for scum if they thought Risen was going to die anyway.
I disagree. A scum claim is a sign of desperation or survival. They do not want the additional attention, unless it means that its going to further their agenda. Do you think a 1 for 1 trade on day two furthers their agenda?
You can disagree with my assessment all you want, but factual evidence will show you that you are wrong.
It's true that scum claims will come out of desperation, but so will town claims. Whether the claim is desperate or not has no bearing on the alignment of the claimer. However, almost universally scum claim in positions where they wouldn't have to in order to survive.
On March 27 2012 09:20 Lyter wrote: Alright my reasoning for voting Risen isn't particularly mindblowing, I don't think there's much that hasn't already been said about him.
I think a lynch on him is just plain sensible at this point. If he is lynched, and flips town, then he will be DT because there is no reason to claim it and then be something else, that is just anti-town. So of course the other option is he flips mafia, and hurrah you killed a scum. If he flips DT like his claim, then no doubt he has checked Acro, the only issue is whether something else occurred that night like a framing which at least provides a slight positive in that you know there is some manipulative role out there. I think him creating a heck of a lot of spam taking up practically all of day 2's discussion is a pretty scummy move, would it not be wiser as a DT to just take note that you checked someone and they came up scum and maybe use that at a later more critical time? Part of me thinks it would be smarter to lynch acro then get risen day 3 if acro flips town, but that is only the case if we don't give any value to way Risen has acted over day 2 and just say its 50/50. But I think in this case he's been so destructive to progress that he kinda has to go before acro because it makes he comes across much shadier, trying to divert town attention away from something else that we may have have missed from the events of day/night 1.
On March 29 2012 08:02 wherebugsgo wrote: Wtf does that have to do with evantrees being scum?
Just read his filter, it'll take you all of 30 seconds.
zealos and lyter are way worse.. why am i even bothering talking to you... remember risen?
Lol wut? How are they worse than a player who has posted...8 times?
Also, you voted Risen too, dipshit.
I would have voted Acro if I thought that it wouldn't lead to a scum decision. If I switched to acro it would have been 9 to 5 meaning only 2 scum have to switch to secure the lynch they want. I figured I'd trust in my fellow townies... lol... and I argued too vehemently against lynching risen to get called a dipshit over it.
Except when it comes to your actions your vote was there along with everyone else. So don't try to push me off as "bad" when in terms of actions you did the exact same thing I did.
At any rate the case on evantrees is simple. If you're town and you don't want to lynch him, that's fine. You'll lose, and I'll still be around anyway.
EPT
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