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On February 18 2012 15:45 DoYouHas wrote:
Just finished reading after being away for a while. Gum, for the sake of my eyes, when you quote walls of text, put them in spoilers. If you are doing analysis on that wall of text, link the whole thing then just quote the relevant parts. Also, the preview button is your friend. I'm going to go back over what I just read again and let it sink in a bit.
I dislike that no one directly addressed my defense of gumshoe, with the exception of ET. I wrote it to be picked at and debated, but you all seem content hammering away at each other. Making big cases and walls of text is nice, but spending all your time on them is going to blind you. I know from personal experience.
My schedule is going to be very busy tomorrow. I will be unavailable starting at 4-3 hours before the deadline and remain so for something like 8-9 hours.
I did read your defense on gumshoe.
I stopped taking it seriously after this
On February 18 2012 09:51 DoYouHas wrote:
gumshoe has done a number of things that are not helping the town. The have been pointed out quite a few times so I won't go into depth about them now. Things like derailing, cluttering, unclear-ness, lying, a few inconsistencies.
The reason is quite obvious I think.
Not that I believe that your play is bad or scummy DYH, but there's a point up to you can excuse one's behavior.
Just look at gums last post, I won't comment on it, but just take a look at how hes trying to use "statistics" again(oh my) to prove his point.
Anyway, I think all that should be said about gum have been said. Lets move on for now.
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I appreciate the effort blae but as a general rule of thumb, if you are gonna spend 1-2 hours catching up with the thread, then please make some solid analysis based on one or two players.
Making a list about everyone with 3 liners is not helping, it's just fluff.
Anyway,my pro town reads so far are trackd00r and sloosh.
Not too sure about anyone else so far, with some clinging towards scum a bit more and some towards town a bit more but nothing I can make a case on.
My 2 lengthy posts were on gom and midnight, I wanna post one more solid analysis but I'm trying to set my sleep schedule right, so I'm staying 30 hours up,Q_Q. So dunno if I will have the courage for filtering and analysing, just a heads up guys. I'll be here though till a few hours till the 1st night comes(that's if I don't fall asleep, xP).
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Ok, have pulled through it as much as I could, xP. Gotta sleep now.
I place my vote on gumshoe. The reasoning for this is in my case against him.
tldr:I wanna kill him cause of his scummy play. Regardless of his allingment his play is ultra scummy, that's anti town.
I'm not 100% sold on Echellons case, if I was I would push for him and a day2 lynch on gum. Since I am not, I will stick with the only option that will benefit town, killing the guy whos acting like he's actively trolling on the game.
You can expect much more quality posting from me again, starting tomorrow morning, in euro time that is.
Peace.
Oh almost forgot,
##vote Gumshoe
Edited by GMarshal to correct the vote format
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Holy Moses just woke up and read the day post. Q_Q
GG Dimmu and gl next game, (.
Ok, I see that noone followed me on Gumshoe only to see that he went afk literally minutes before the deadline without changing vote. Yet I see that you guys still are
a)not convinced that he's scum
b)believe that although he plays anti-town you don't want him gone.
So I'm gonna drop my vote off of him as well. To avoid no majority situations like last day.
Expect some analysis during this night from me.
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Gum gum gum gum....
That's exactly why I believe your play is bad and hurts town.
You have me spending precious time trying to decipher your scribble while I wanted to check other people's filters.
That's all you did so far in the game, wasted time.
You make unfounded and ridiculous claims. You also seem to either not being able to comprehend written word or be too focused in your delusions. Which of them is true I don't care.
Let's look at the extent of the uselessness of your claims.
On February 19 2012 15:30 gumshoe wrote:
Also this notion that its ok too lynch a townie is kinda funny coming from the guy who claimed to be the sheth of mini mafia.
huh, pretty humane thing coming out of someone who proposed a few hours later that a bad townie is 100 percent worth lynching.
Who in the name of God would say that he's too kind in a game of forum Mafia? Do you even read what you type?
I obviously meant that my phrasing is soft(for example using "lol", "xP" and stuff like that) and not that I AM KIND IN THE WAY I PLAY. I feel like an idiot just trying to make sense with you.
Next,
On February 19 2012 15:30 gumshoe wrote:+ Show Spoiler +With each post you make, I'm getting more and more confident about killing you, lol. doesn't he mean lynch me, or vote for me? How can you alone kill me? He didnt say "makes me wanna vote or convince everyone else to vote for you" you said kill me. The only people who kill in this game are mafia and vigilantes. Steve if your a vig why would you risk yourself by using that phrasing?
Yeah dude you are right. I obviously meant that I will personally kill you. Not by voting, cause fuck that, that's for pussies.
You see what you want to see then proceed to make a stupid claim.
You proceed to make the worst suggestion you could possibly make after that.
On February 19 2012 15:30 gumshoe wrote:
We need to try and see what goals groups of 2 to 3 players have been trying to accomplish.
You are a player who thought that the "poll" we all know about was a good idea. You managed to throw us into a meaningless discussion for half the 1st day.
Now you are proposing to check into group patterns? Even seasoned veterans with dozens of games under their belts can't do that. On top of this it's the 1st night dude, we can't possibly look for group patterns in the 1st freaking night.
I can't view this in any other way than an attempt to confuse the town again and stir us away from constructive and meaningfull posts, much like you are doing with me now, wasting my time on you.
On February 19 2012 15:30 gumshoe wrote:
This is a very bold claim, I'm far more worried about the people who feel that even if I am town I should be lynched anyways then I am worried about the people who just claim I am mafia(like Blae who is totally justified in suspecting me). Because the later opinion wants to kill scum while the former wants to kill a player regardless of their alignment. This opinion is beyond reckless in a 15 player game with four mafia where the mafia gain a clear advantage if a townie is lynched(as one has been). It just seems like a bad move , unless you are mafia and you know that you have every right to accuse me of being scum and you also want to convince the town that the amount of chaos I've brought to the thread is more of a threat to them than you and your piers (the people who want to shoot them) are
Oh look! It's you WIFOMING AGAIN! How rare!
You then say that lynching a bad towny(yourself that is) is wrong.
No dude,it's not wrong, and in your case, it's actually recommended.
My first mafia game, which I joined pretty late cause I subbed someone, was a huge game with 80 players and almost all veterans were there.
Just as I joined and begun reading, the thing that caught my attention most, was the almost unanimous agreement to ignore one player and his posting as trolling/bad play. The player was Serejai, you can check the game if you want.
And they did just that, they actively ignored him and considered him scum.
If a player hurts town play as much as you, it's a much better option to kill you(see?i did it again, said kill,I must be scum),rather than letting you spread our deductive power thin.
And you hurt us gum, you hurt us bigtime.
On February 19 2012 15:30 gumshoe wrote:
One of my biggest concerns going into the vote was that it felt like the majority of us were set on the players who had made common individual mistakes. It feels like were not really entertaining the notion that the mafia might actually be playing well because were so set on the idea that they are obvius and awful.
On February 19 2012 15:30 gumshoe wrote:
Theres a chance(I wont say a good one because I got fried for that last time) that one of these intelligent players is mafia
On February 19 2012 15:30 gumshoe wrote:
Because this is my nightmare scenario, I think until we lynch a mafia we need to actively consider the worst case scenario ,the possibility that the mafia has the mental upper hand, that they are intelligent and have come up with plans to adapt if a teammate catches fire.
Each and every one of these statements is designed to throw us into chaos chasing our tails.
It's the pinnacle of a fluff scum post.
No good reasoning, just laying out some "ideas" in order to generally help us in some way.
And that's only from that 1 post. If I count the times where you post non constructively I'll have to write an essay.
Congratulations gumshoe, I just wasted 1 more hour.
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Ya gumshoe I know, my plan on checking someone else didn't materialize cause you added fuel to the fire and I didn't have the time to read all day today.
Gonna sleep now, god(and gum) willing I'll do some more constructive play tomorrow.
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On February 20 2012 06:33 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 06:17 Steveling wrote:
Ya gumshoe I know, my plan on checking someone else didn't materialize cause you added fuel to the fire and I didn't have the time to read all day today.
Gonna sleep now, god(and gum) willing I'll do some more constructive play tomorrow. Please before you go to be can I get your opinion on DYH?
My view from a 10min read on him.
He goes passive fairly quickly after a strong pro town start attitude, calling people out trying to promote discussion.
Suddenly he fixates on sl0osh.
I find it very weird that he defended you gum. Even my deathadder mouse is yelling about your funky play.
What's even more interesting is that he made a list of those who accused/defended you. That's 100% fluff.
The only reason that someone would make a list like that is
a)you are 100% sure about the allingment of the player you are defending(that can happen only if you are scum)
b)you are trying to confuse the town (that happens if you are scum)
c)you are starting to play like gumshoe in which case you should take a chill pill, lol
Off to bed, cya tomorrow.
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Holy shit the night post.
GG jaj, gl next game, T_T.
Um, ok.
At first I wanna say that I'm sold on DYH being scummy. I was already suspicious of him as I stated.
The stronger point of this as Sloosh also stated after me, is that DYH made a list.
And here's his slip.
On February 19 2012 04:57 DoYouHas wrote:
TKHawkins: Not much to say here. I dislike his first post as it was just a conglomerate of posts others made before with a poor assumption about scum tagged on (an assumption that would exclude TKHawkins from the pool of possible scum of course). Then, in his last post he started following the format of listing everyone with basic reads on them. THIS NEEDS TO STOP. Posting lists is not nearly as helpful as posting thoughtful analysis on a few people. If posting lists becomes standard then we are giving scum an easy way of making long posts that stay shallow.
How can you argue with Hawkins on this exact point when you made a list yourself?
And it was a list BASED ON GUM's defense for christs sake.
You asked yourself why noone took seriously your long post about gum(the attention it drew was almost zero).
Do you even need to ask?
That's corresponding with my initial view of you which I posted when gumshoe asked me about you.
Another thing is that now that I had time to read and analyze some more, I find your case against sloosh extremely weak.
Here's why.
This was the first time you mention sloosh. It's interesting to see in what manner you did so,
On February 17 2012 10:06 DoYouHas wrote:
Alright, let's get this going. We need an active town this game. I'm expecting a lot from you sl0osh.
You are obviously counting heavily on meta.
Now that's not bad in itself ofcourse, but I checked out the game were you, sloosh and Midnight all participated in.
The results were shocking to me.
Sloosh asked for some clarifying advises from the veterans after the game was over. Here is his post
On February 10 2012 11:22 slOosh wrote:
It seems that the game was won mostly through help of blue roles in confirming ppl for late game rather than strong analysis.
People in Obs QT said my case against Zarepath was weak / confirmation bias, and I think besides MidnightGladius' vig shot and Adams hunches on Chocolate, as a town we didn't ever rally around a good analysis case.
Could you help point out posts which tipped off people as mafia? Or is this more an overall feel in which each post adds to the case rather than one solid post upon which you can lynch mafia?
Also, how can you differentiate between timidity due to being new to the game and timidity due to being mafia?
He seem confused and seeks help from experienced players.
This was Qatol's answer(you might know him as the writer of many mafia guides).
On February 17 2012 12:43 Qatol wrote:
I agree that you didn't really rally around a good analysis case all game. I felt the zarepath lynch was lucky, and the rest came down to good blue play. MidnightGladius caught balt11t not contributing (which was a solid read), and chocolate and bromancipate were found mathematically.
My point should be fairly obvious to all of you now.
Why did your post which was based on META was directed towards sloosh and not midnight?
You have no reasons whatsoever to believe that sloosh is a better player than midnight.
Then you attacked sloosh out of nowhere.
On February 18 2012 04:19 DoYouHas wrote:
I think it is about time we start talking about who to lynch today. With the scheduling problems mentioned by a few people, I don't think we can wait too much longer.
My current list of people I'm consdering voting for is sl0osh and MannerKiss
sl0osh, he overreacted badly to a perfectly fine way of calling him out. Everything in his exchange was just an extended version of OMGUS (attacking the person who attacked you only because he attacked you).
If sloosh is town, that's bad play, you know why? Cause you are right in these points, he did overreact and he did OMGUS.
And that doesn't fit with your view of sloosh being a better player than midnight.
And all that with Qatol having provided enough validity NOT to do so.
The only explanation for this mess is the following
• You aknowledged sloosh as a weak player, someone you can manipulate, someone you can build a case or defend yourself from, easy.
• You tried to give him credit, so that we all hold him on higher regard than we should be.
• You waited until he made a slip.(the overreaction and omgus part)
•You made a jump on him, just to start a bus against him and gain credit as a towny.
That seems suspicious ofc, but it's not condemning. I knew so myself.
Until I read that little gem in your filter after your case against sloosh has been made
On February 18 2012 06:30 DoYouHas wrote:
My logic is that sl0osh is a decent to good player of mafia. As such I believe it is scummy for sl0osh to have ignored obvious reasoning and launched into OMGUS. It is that simple. I don't believe the quality of player that sl0osh is would have reacted in the way that sl0osh did as a townie.
Two slips happen there.
The first is obvious with the evidence I have provided so far, you shouldn't consider sloosh such a good player in mafia.
The second is that it's extremely biased and weak reasoned. You say that your logic is based on him being a good player?
That logic is unfounded and WIFOM.
If that applied then veteran games would be a breeze with players having played a million games between them.
But ofcourse you wouldn't want to actually lynch him and expose his towny nature, would you? At least not in the first day.
As I expected you did exactly that.
On February 18 2012 07:39 DoYouHas wrote:
I am dropping my case on sl0osh for now for 2 reasons.
1. His explanation that I bolded fits and is reasonable.
2. Other cases have been presented that are stronger than mine and I want to free both sl0osh and myself up to be constructive in that area.
So, some other cases stronger than yours popped up? What a surprise.
Ofc you don't wanna discredit yourself by killing a towny so fast.
After some time passed you are onto your favorite boy toy again, sloosh.
I can't give any reasons for this atm, are we onto one of your teammates and you wanna divert us?
Are you that sure that you can make a case but pull out of it just like you did last time?
I can't say, so this is just simple food for thought.
My case has one weak point atm. I did not account for sloosh being a scum as well.
And I did not, cause I do not read him as as such.
I'd like some opinions on that.
My vote atm goes to DYH.
vote##: DoYouHas
On another note, people don't panic please. And stop making these lists. We need solid stuff. Not fluff.
Also if you are gonna spend 1 hour filtering only to say that you find x and y to be town, then pls do something else.
We need opinions on scum not on town.
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We posted at the same time.
Haven't read your post yet but I just wanna say, would I make a good cop or what?
Just as I predicted you pulled out from the sloosh case for the 2nd time.
Anyway gonna read your case on Midnight now.
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On February 21 2012 00:11 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 18:14 Steveling wrote:
My case has one weak point atm. I did not account for sloosh being a scum as well.
And I did not, cause I do not read him as as such.
I'd like some opinions on that.
My vote atm goes to DYH.
vote##: DoYouHas
On another note, people don't panic please. And stop making these lists. We need solid stuff. Not fluff.
Also if you are gonna spend 1 hour filtering only to say that you find x and y to be town, then pls do something else.
We need opinions on scum not on town.
Take your own advice. Your filter only contains stuff with gumshoe and weak commentary on MG. Your stance on DYH (btw its not "your case" stop trying to look like you contributed anything) is built from the assumption that DYH is mafia and nitpicking for random junk. Either you suffer confirmation bias or are mafia busing. Give us something new. Show some effort.
Offering something solid /= randomly accusing someone just to enrich my filter.
My general playstyle is to try and find clues. I'm not gut guessing or throwing random punches hoping to hit something good. So it takes time.
Anyway I'll try to give more opinions.
But I don't like your 2nd point. I spent quite enough time on the DYH case to have you telling me that I contributed nothing and that I'm "nitpicking random junk". T_T
I know it's not my case, but I think I offered new clues.
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On February 21 2012 01:27 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 08:08 GreYMisT wrote:
I forgot we had ZBot and did a votecount, yay.
Gumshoe (2): DimmuKlok, Steveling
MidnightGladius (3): EchelonTee, jaj22, Mattchew
DimmuKlok (2): Gumshoe, Alderan
EchelonTee (5): Zelblade, trackd00r, blae000, MidnightGladius, TKHawkins
SlOosh (1): DoYouHas
DoYouHas (1): slOosh
With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch! the day ends in less than 1 hour! does anyone else find it really fucking weird that we went from 5 on ET to lynching DK in less than an hour?
Um, actually yeah lol.
What page was this?
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Ok you are right.
Ask me for an opinion on anyone.
Let's get back on track people!
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On February 21 2012 03:19 ZBot wrote:
Day 2, with 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Current votes:
DoYouHas (8): slOosh, Mattchew, Janaan, gumshoe, MidnightGladius, EchelonTee, zelblade, trackd00r
MidnightGladius (1): gumshoe, -gumshoe, DoYouHas
Not voting: Alderan, rgTheSchworz, Steveling, TKHawkins
The Day deadline is at 2012-02-22 09:00:00. (That's approximately 1 day, 5:40:26 from now.)
Hmmm, what's wrong? I'm pretty sure I voted.
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On February 21 2012 04:07 Mattchew wrote:still not doing it right... you need to bold it
Rofl! That was a good laugh, xP.
##Vote DoYouHas
Ok, I think we need new direction. Ima pick one lurkery player and post my opinion on him.
If you want something specific ask me, that's the best way to promote town play.
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Interesting read.
You made quite a few connections about midnight and hawkings but you didn't state your conclusion.
Are you actually saying that they are working together? Clarify please.
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On February 21 2012 07:19 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 07:14 Steveling wrote:
Interesting read.
You made quite a few connections about midnight and hawkings but you didn't state your conclusion.
Are you actually saying that they are working together? Clarify please. You missed the point -_- he thinks Janaan is town and Hawk is scum because he's been tunnelling Janaan(among other things) Did you just read the first half or something? He discusses Janaan clearly at the end. Do you think they're working together?
So, he thinks janaan is town, hawk is tunneling him, so hawk is scum?
Yeah better let him explain. lol
And anyway I'm not interested in town reads, I'm interested in scum reads.
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Um, has anyone else noted that zbot dude only makes lists in his posts?
He has 3 posts with some weird lists.
SCUM!
On a more serious note, I decided my next investigation subject will be Janaan. Will post tomorrow morning.
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Shiiiiiiat Mattchew! You might have done it, lol.
I'll drop my janaan research and start one on trackdoor since he's the one with the less posts iirc.
Considering what I find and how the cases on the others subjects go I might even withdraw my DYH vote.
I still think he's scummy but we might find more damning evidence on these guys.
So, tomorrow morning-noon I'll post.
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Um, ok regarding my thoughts on trackdoor.
You know how I like to find little clues here and there and prove them wrong, right? That's my scumhunting tactic.
Well after examining trackdoors filter I found out there's not even one and I mean zero, nada posts with substance.
It's 100% fluff.
What he likes to do, is correcting other people's gameplay(mine,gums,blades,midnights,echellons, you get the point).
Most of his posts are like "Dude I don't like x aspect of your posting, can you do y?" then drops the pressure on his target/s.
Way to appear constructive in the most terrible manner there is.
He made 3 big posts in this exact manner.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 18 2012 01:59 trackd00r wrote:Ok, so I've been reading the thread for a while and taken a look to the filters. @jaj22: Regarding in the comparison of those four players in NMM3, Their metagame has been similar so far, with a very few exceptions: -Sloosh has been very aggressive against EcheleonTea after he made an indirect scum claim (not sure if he was kidding still). The discussion lasted quite a bit with lots of attacks against each other. I'm not missing that attitude from sloosh, but I still expect more from him as town, by pulling off cases and encouraging everyone to participate, opposed to pick off a single target and turning it into a semi-heated talk. Helping us by posting the filters (thanks btw) and giving some general advice is nice to hear, but that fight left me with a little drop of doubt. Anyways, I somewhat understand that he was trying to defend from the first claim and in that case, it's the right thing to do. Looking good. -DoyouHas seems to be pointing the town to the right direction: taking the confidence to be the first to post (BUT last newbie mafia the first poster turned to be scum, with the difference that it was just fluff), gathering information and making his stand clear to everyone. Seems very pro town from me, the same way he did it in NMM3. -MidnightGladius has somewhat posted in the begging of the game. However, he does still have that flaw present in the past game, which is to make useless calculations and proportions about the mafia/town ratio. I feel that doesn't really contributes much to the dialogue. His next post have been better though, analyzing and commenting about the Echelon-sloosh clash and the not that succesful plan of gumshoe. I hope he keeps like that. Important to mention that those 3 players had blue roles in NMM3, so looking through their posts in the next days can make a clearer picture of them and their attitude to everything in general. -Zelbalde has only posted once, giving advice to us and apologizing. This was his biggest flaw last game. We know that you are a busy person zelblade, but posting just once is fine, instead of refilling your posts with more 'sorry' and making you either difficult to read or a scum candidate. Well, that's all regarding the past players, but of course we need to take look to the rest... Gumshoe did not had the best start ever in a mafia game. That first post was just flashy and not very elaborated. As Echelon said, it could be interpreted as an attempt to derail the discussion. This thing drew my attention quite a bit: + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On February 17 2012 11:36 EchelonTee wrote:
Show nested quote +
I would like it if you divided your walls of text into paragraphs; it took me a few to fathom your post, when I realized you're not saying anything. K very simple I wanted to see if any voting patterns formed within the poll It was like a lynch simulator But less than 12 people have voted in the pole therefore any conjecture regarding any mafia patterns is at the moment useless. Because it's possible that none of the mafia voted given that town thinks the poll is stupid and just posted on it randomly or trolingly. Discredit it until theres twelve votes or just discredit it period if you so please. That is all. That ridiculously excessive action regarding to divide your text into paragraphs makes you look fell very uncomfortable and desperate to get out of that situation. I'll take your plan as a newbie mistake, but that last post can draw suspicion... In my opinion, we should take a look at Steveling posts: + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On February 17 2012 10:50 gumshoe wrote:
Hi everybody! Im the friendly neighbourhood gum on your shoe! Today I come to you with a plan that'll hopefully shed some light on the certainly vile nature of the scum infesting our sacred house...OF GAMBLING! The plan is a simple anonymous poll asking wether your a townie or a scumie. Now in the case of the townie there is no risk whatsoever in voting townie, on acounta a) you are a townie and b) no one can say otherwise cause your voting anonymously. In fact I very much so ask that you don't say which one your voting for or wether or not your even voting at all. All I ask is that if you're a townie vote townie, or don't vote, please don't troll and say your mafia I REPEAT NO TOWNIES VOTE MAFIA, IT SHALL BE THE END OF US ALL!!!!!! This only works if all the townies voting vote townie so please do so if your a townie. If your mafia feel free to vote as well, in fact the whole purpose of this exercise is to see if you as a group abstain from voting, vote as you please, or all vote townie. This is an experiment to study the mafia and I promise to only do this once, so whata ya say newcomers! Watcha gonna be? I'd just likely to repeat one last time there is ABSOLUTELY no way I or anyone else can ascertain your alignment through this vote, so please give it a shot, it might very well teach us something useful.
Poll: Anonymous vote: are YOU mafia?
Mafioso (16)
80%
Townie (4)
20%
20 total votes
Your vote: Anonymous vote: are YOU mafia?
(Vote): Townie
(Vote): Mafioso
I loled soo hard reading this. As for me, I played one more game of mafia, but it was the biggest fail human kind has ever witnessed. There were 80 players in it, and it ended with the scum offering a draw, cause the city was that bad, T_T. I was a towny needless to say. Here's the link, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690I think I'm with jaj on the lurker lynching. Since unless some serious slips happen it's our best bet for scumhunt. On February 17 2012 11:25 jaj22 wrote: + Show Spoiler +
@Gumshoe: Did you get some RL buddies to spam your own vote, just in case it was accidentally useful?
@Steveling: I see you lynched Palmar on your first day. Not the greatest start to a mafia career. Fortunately we don't have any awesome scumhunting veterans in this game. Or mayors.
Yeah, that was ...unfortunate, Q_Q. But, I did have the best scumreads based on clues in that game. Well that was all I could do so I spent a lot of time into these. Also in my defense all the towny veterans where cockfighting each other so it was impossible for a newbie to tell who was what. On February 17 2012 11:55 gumshoe wrote: Show nested quote + + Show Spoiler +
I apologize as well. This was just a random shot to start off the night, I mean theres really nothing to discuss until something happens and it beats just randomly accusing people, but ill try not to do something like this again... for this game at least!
Just an idea, if you want this to work in future games, I think you need to post a clarifying post before the poll-post, something like a preemptive strike, so you get full cooperation from townies and state the purpose. For example, I voted scum on the poll before I even read it just to troll, T_T. There is barely anything helpful on those posts. Not really contributing . I expect you to post more or my suspicion to you will rise. That's it for the moment. I'll be checking again the thread in a couple of hours. My absence in the past is just sleeping. As may notice, my time is roughly the same as EST, so I'll be up for deadlines and lynches. And sorry for the bad formatting @ spoilers >.< I'll PM a mod later so I get some help lol On February 18 2012 06:28 trackd00r wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote:
Ok, just woke up and caught on the action.
So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1.
The reasoning: We are close to the night, very close actually and we have zero solid cases on anyone.
Yes mannerkiss's weird 1 liner is scummy, also both eche and sloosh became defensive too fast and yes there are some lurkers as well. Nothing we can make a strong case on.
But chanses are that we are probably gonna misslynch day1 with the current situation.
So the way I see it, we either push for a lurker lynch or a no lynch. And with a no lynch we promote more discussion without losing an unlucky towny, more discussion always benefits the town.
What do you guys think?
I'm sorry Steveling, but I definitely think that no-lynch is no no. We are not close to night. We've only had played for 21 hours and that's less than half of the time. We still have plenty of time to build a strong case on anyone. There have been several stances where we could gather information and I know that we can use it to push out a lynch. If it turns out mafia, great. If not, we will see the bandwagons and those who are dodging the cases to make a good and hopefully successful lynch in the second day. Well, you have posted much more content than you did it on your previous post, but I insist, I disagree with a no-lynch. Gumshoe, sometimes I think that you are going more pro-town, but in some other instances I just don't understand your intentions. Even you manage to contradict your self: Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 13:36 gumshoe wrote:Early reports! All very preliminary but hopefully it'll give everyone an idea of where some townies stand and where some lurkers don't. blae - absent but has an alibi(by alibi I mean he said before game that he would not be especially present day one) Alderan - Absent no alibi Ech - present but slightly suspicious ) : Do you has - present has contributed somewhat(a single post against the word of Ech) no basis for suspicion manner kiss- has presented himself but has not yet contributed to discussion. No basis for suspicion steveling - is present has contributed to discussion does not seem suspicious.track door - has made himself present has contributed somewhat to discussion no reason yet to suspect midnight- is present has contributed , (is mean to me but rightfully so )  no reason to suspect as of yet Sloosh - has contributed, acted out only to defend himself, does not seem suspicius Janaan- is absent no alibi tk hawakins- is absent no aibi dimmuKlk- is absent no alibi zell - is absent no alibi jaj22 - is present, is also somewhat mean but justifiably so as far as I can tell, his negative tone is striking negative but not yet suspicion worthy. Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:09 gumshoe wrote:
Now for stance number two! This ones about the lovely poll!
Unlike the topic of lynching lurkers, nearly everyone( with the exception of manner kiss and a few other lurkers) has stated an opinion on this matter, heres the breakdown of where everyone stands. Fore warning I'm a lot less objective here so take my opinions as you will.
Thinks I'm the nubbiest of noobs:
Blae(not much to say, just seems like he wants to move on from the poll which isn't really what a mafia would want)
Janan (just disregarded my poll and moved on, not very suspicious behaviour)
Steveling( hasn't commented to much, posted rather jokingly in response to my poll... Almost as if he wasn't worried about the prospect of me being mafia... Steve needs to post more.)
Midnight Gladius (didn't think I was mafia, not a suprise gladius dosent seem to take many risks)
TKHawkins( hasn't said much)
With this, I really want to make you think more carefully about you post. You say that Steveling has contributed to the discussion, when he actually didn't really at that point (he even loled at your poll) and then you suddenly realize deeper into the game that he hasn't commented much? I'm letting of the suspicion of you but please, please, think carefully every post you make. Instead of replaying to every post, try to start a case or at least draw your lynch candidates in a clear way. I swear that I can't even understand some of your posts, and not only to me, but all the town right here. For the moment, i'm lifting my suspicions about you and Steve I need to keep checking the filters and try to build up a strong case. There have been a lot of situations going on here and I'm starting to lose focus >_<. Expect more posting from me, I will. On February 18 2012 11:39 trackd00r wrote:I can't explain how tiring is to re-read like 5 times every filter. I haven't thought of a good case yet but some posts are revealing alignments and behaviors of each of you. I have no other option that expressing me my reads. Let's start Steveling: For a moment, I thought that you would have a more cooperative attitude towards the thread, but the only post which I've seen of content is this one: Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote:
Ok, just woke up and caught on the action.
So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1.
The reasoning: We are close to the night, very close actually and we have zero solid cases on anyone.
Yes mannerkiss's weird 1 liner is scummy, also both eche and sloosh became defensive too fast and yes there are some lurkers as well. Nothing we can make a strong case on.
But chanses are that we are probably gonna misslynch day1 with the current situation.
So the way I see it, we either push for a lurker lynch or a no lynch. And with a no lynch we promote more discussion without losing an unlucky towny, more discussion always benefits the town.
What do you guys think?
After that, you only attacked gumshoe, targeting mannerkiss with no reason whatsoever and post content less posts regarding lynches + random fluff. I'm expecting a lot more of you. You have been reading the thread long enough to build some accusations. EchelonTee: What's with the over aggressive and 'flashy' way of posting? I thought that after your talk vs sl0osh your posting style could have changed, but instead you post short lines which clearly lack a basis. My suspicion towards is raising because we don't need these kind of posting here. It looks like you want to work by your own. I hardly see any attempt of trying to lead the town to a healthy discussion. Instead, you are creating a confusing atmosphere to us. What is your plan? Which are your goals? Your intentions are not very clear... Probably the most confusing thing you did in the whole game is jump to vote at MG just after jaj22 opened a case against him. Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 09:49 EchelonTee wrote:On February 18 2012 09:47 MidnightGladius wrote:On February 18 2012 09:42 MannerKiss wrote:
Sorry i've been absent, work related stuff. Trying to catch up on the thread.
Doyouhas pretty strong townie feeling to me.
gumshoe - trying my best to overcome some scummy feeling from the earliest post, but it seems to have cleared up a little since the poll.
Dimmuklok giving me the strongest scum vibe of all so far, (and not just because he's aggressive toward me).
ET - also giving off a townie feeling
i'll catch up on everyone else when i get home this evening Welcome back! The last we saw you, DYH was your first scumread. Now, he's "pretty strong townie"? He was trolling, most likely. You are not. ##Vote MidnightGladiusmore after these messages! Seriously? No reasoning? Not any argument behind? Please, take a look to his behavior. I find it really scum and definitely NOT pro-town. This also applies to your earlier stand against sl0osh. MidnightGladius: You are in the very edge of what I consider constructive posting and what is just repeating what others said. I look you more to the path of constructiveness, but I'm expecting more about you. Your posting was slightly better in NMM3, although limited still (you were vig that game). Be a little more aggressive, but that's all. DimmuKlok: Please post more. You have only targeted the most obvious players at that moment. Also your 1st and 2nd were very fluffy. If you don't contribute more you will get targeted. Alderan: He looks very town for me at least. You made your stand clear from the start and you are pressuring Dimmu. Looks very neat so far. Mannerkiss: When you get back home, you'd better have good reads/accusations because your absence is really hurting us. Your semi analysis in your last post targets common players as well. I want to see more. jaj22: I don't have a clear picture of you yet You have been replying a fair amount of posts and looking forward information. I wouldn't vote for MG that early though, but it's up to you and we'll see how things come into the light after some hours. blae000: Perhaps you've only have made a few posts, but they are good quality ones. He looks to have good intentions. I would like to read more about him though. TWhawkins This has been his only contribution so far: Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 13:56 TKHawkins wrote:
Welcome.
First game on this forum. Anyway, I don't think Gumshoes poll is scummy. It's more likely he just thought "he I wonder if this idea would work." Clearly the answer is no and he didn't really think it through. Seems like more of newbie attempt at something more then anything else. I'm sure the obsever quick thread is already LOLing hard at us. I laughed too (and didn't vote since I hadn't known the game had started).
As for the policy on Lurker hunting, it's obviously a bit early to call people lurkers since many people might not even know the game has started yet (though definately not too early to discuss how to handle lurkers). It is best not to go after lurkers right away. The mafia generally aren't going to be completely inactive at the start. Rather, they are going to try to blend in. Scum post a reasonable amount, but don't contribute.
And finally, the Sl0osh vs Ech thing, I do think it's suspicious for Sl0osh to be acting defensive already. We need to hear more. Please, don't be shy. Come with some accusations. Your posts somewhat seem to you to look interested, but your post count says to opposite. Janaan: Hard to read. He has good intentions and makes good points, but I still i want to hear more from him. Looking forward to his posts. gumshoe: OK i'll be honest with this one. Many times when I saw his posts, i just the feeling to grab my laptop and smash to the ground. I'm pretty sure that everyone is conscious of this posts and ideas. He has been slowing down the posting for a while and in fact has given good well developed opinions against jaj and somewhat to MG. Anyways, that drama we saw in the first hours didn't really made a good organized discussion later on. I'm glad that your are calming down, gum. DoYouHas Very active, pointing good posts and having a very good analysis in his posts. A very good town read from him. sl0osh Your posts have been more concrete after the clash with ET. You are slowly getting to that style I loved about you back in NMM3. I'm expecting you to build a very good solid case in the future. That would be it. I really want to see EchelonTee with more productive and well developed posts. His individualism in this thread make me feels he has the most scummy behavior. I'll wait to your response before I cast my vote, specially the one regarding the MG jumping.
Then he voted Echellon.
Look at his "reasoning".
On February 18 2012 23:41 trackd00r wrote:I still believe that ET is our best candidate for lynching. I've already given my explanations why, as well as others. He hasn't replied my post yet. Sorry, but I cant wait any longer. ##Vote: EchelonTee
Yup, that's all. He basically accuses someone because his play is "flashy".
On February 18 2012 11:39 trackd00r wrote:
What's with the over aggressive and 'flashy' way of posting? I thought that after your talk vs sl0osh your posting style could have changed, but instead you post short lines which clearly lack a basis. My suspicion towards is raising because we don't need these kind of posting here. It looks like you want to work by your own. I hardly see any attempt of trying to lead the town to a healthy discussion. Instead, you are creating a confusing atmosphere to us. What is your plan? Which are your goals? Your intentions are not very clear...
He later jumped on the DYH wagon. His reasoning was once again weak.
On February 20 2012 02:03 trackd00r wrote:
My following thoughts are directed to DoYouHas.
I've changed my view on him. If you think that he has been contributing on the discussion, I think you need to take a look closer to his behavior. His play so far has mostly consisted of:
1) Convincing us that gumshoe is town
2) Responding to almost every sloosh's post and draw suspicion upon him.
Him defending gum was indeed weird.
But defending himself from sloosh aggressive play? What's the fuzz about that?
Sounds more like something he made up to make his case look bigger.
Next in the line of non contributing posts is the following
+ Show Spoiler +On February 20 2012 12:23 trackd00r wrote:I think it's time I have to catch the thread again. Personally, I'm not convinced with MidnightGladius case. I don't agree with the reasoning that jaj and ET gave. I'm not going to get into details about that, since we need to focus in other targets that don't create chaos. Alderan is lurking quite heavily now. And I need to say it. He has been one of the least contributors in this game so far. I have the feeling that he is just watching the thread, and watching us bash each other. + Show Spoiler +On February 18 2012 02:01 Alderan wrote:Hi guys, excited to get started. Ok so here are just my thoughts as I read through the thread (going to be pretty peacemeal as I catch up): As for my experience, most recently I played in SNMMIV as scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232826And before that I played a Vanilla towny in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500. I've also read a couple games all the way through I see that next we entered the obligatory Lurker Lynch policy discussion so I will throw in my $.02. We need to approach this in a way where lurkers know they will get lynched if they do not post. Our philosophy should be that someone who is blatantly lurking WILL get lynched unless of these 2 situations happens. 1. Adequate involvement from everyone. I have seen town get so focused on lynching a lurker that when that person becomes active the bandwagon has already started rolling so fast downhill that there's no stopping it. That person ends up being town more often than not. 2. There is an obvious scum slip or we can identify someone almost assuredly as scum. Let's make sure we don't hit a blue in our insistence on lynching someone day 1, if the obvious choice is not there, it's not there. That will be decided much closer to the end of the voting period though. Stay diligent. This poll is comical. I still fail to see the reasoning behind it. While discussion is good, let's not go round and round about that, almost no substantive value to be had. More worrisome than the poll is how quick to the gun ET was. Without formally FoSing, in my opinion you have already semi-accused DoYouHaas, Sloosh, and gumshoe. Do you stand any of these at all? If so which is the most scummy? I don't like it, and by it I mean blasting away with the accuse cannon nonstop. We need to hear from Mannerkiss again definitely. Gumshoe you're absolutely correct about Midnight Gladius's ratio post. What is the easiest way to "contribute" without actually contributing anything thats not common knowledge? Speculate about the setup/discuss the ratios and KP, and inactive lists. Those things are not inherently scummy, but they must be followed up with additional contributions. This first reminded me a lot of Zarepath's first post in NMM3, where he turned to be scum. Starts off with a fluffy hypothetical talk about what happens if X situation occurs. Then it goes on and makes the obvious remarks: The poll, ET vs sloosh and calling out manner kiss. Notice how he is just checking the thread. Then his next 2 posts are about gumshoe. Nothing really worthy to add to the discussion. Then it goes this case against Dimmu. It's ok, a lurker, everyone can be suspicious about (even I did). But that's not the point. I would've expected to vote him right away to put some pressure. Instead he just waited to other chaos to set in to cast his vote, when everyone was having different suspicions in other people. He addresses other players in a very shallow way. His opinions to ET and gum were very light IMO. If you think that just writing a case in the easiest case and posting everyone 5-6 hours is going to work, you are wrong. What do you think about the MidnightGladius case? Or DoYouHas'? FOS: Alderan
I'll give you the bulletins of it.
First he states his opinion on Midnights case
On February 20 2012 12:23 trackd00r wrote:
I think it's time I have to catch the thread again.
Personally, I'm not convinced with MidnightGladius case. I don't agree with the reasoning that jaj and ET gave. I'm not going to get into details about that, since we need to focus in other targets that don't create chaos.
He doesn't agree with the reasoning... Cause providing a sufficient explanation for your actions is not hip anymore, he just doesn't agree with it.
And if you take into account Mattchew's post connecting them, it makes perfect sense that he would just drop midnights case for no reason.
Next he accuses Alderan of lurking. Justified? Maybe. Easy? Hell yes.
His last posts are him defending from Mattchew. So zero town worth as well.
These are all of his posts. Not even a 2nd page in his filter. He tries to appear usefull while toying around.
If you take this post and mattchews case I think the picture is pretty clear at least about him.
We just have to find out how many more from Mattchew's remaining 3 are scum. Remember we might have missed some.
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