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Ok next thing came to my mind: How likely is it that there's two different medic roles in this game?
Drazerk claimed he's a RB-immun-Medic that has to claim n1 as far as I recall. At least that's the reason he claimed I think.
He said he protected V7 and yet we have, according to annul a successful save that's not V7. So that means we got a 2nd medic in this game if both claims are correct. The 2nd medic however does not seem to have to claim like Drazerk did.
On top of that I still think mafia would like to get something like V7's role out of this game. A dayvig that's able to also do other stuff is pretty awesome. Radfield already mentioned the Chances of a Mafia visit on V7 are like 99%. Do you really think mafia let's a claimed blue role that has already proven that he's not bullshitting alive?
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On December 07 2011 23:21 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 23:15 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok next thing came to my mind: How likely is it that there's two different medic roles in this game?
Drazerk claimed he's a RB-immun-Medic that has to claim n1 as far as I recall. At least that's the reason he claimed I think.
He said he protected V7 and yet we have, according to annul a successful save that's not V7. So that means we got a 2nd medic in this game if both claims are correct. The 2nd medic however does not seem to have to claim like Drazerk did.
On top of that I still think mafia would like to get something like V7's role out of this game. A dayvig that's able to also do other stuff is pretty awesome. Radfield already mentioned the Chances of a Mafia visit on V7 are like 99%. Do you really think mafia let's a claimed blue role that has already proven that he's not bullshitting alive? Drazerk's claim may as well be bollocks. If you think I troll mafia games, you should read Drazerk's history of playing. It doesn't even tell us anything about his alignment if he's lying. However, after what has happened I'm more willing to believe he's not scum, although trying to tell his alignment is kinda.... meh.
To be honest I thought he's either a VET or a VT trying to catch some bullets if he's town. At least that's what I thought from the very beginning. Someone already pointed it out: If a single person is able to see something, mafia is probably able to see it as well so while I did not say a thing yesterday to see if it works I don't have a problem with telling you what I think about him now.
If he's not town he's strange :p
So sum it up: I'm not believing a word Drazerk said.
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I'm going to repeat what I said and highlight the important part because people have been telling me I'm to much of a wall-of-text guy so probably sometimes the important stuff is not noticed:
On December 07 2011 23:15 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok next thing came to my mind: How likely is it that there's two different medic roles in this game?
Drazerk claimed he's a RB-immun-Medic that has to claim n1 as far as I recall. At least that's the reason he claimed I think.
He said he protected V7 and yet we have, according to annul a successful save that's not V7. So that means we got a 2nd medic in this game if both claims are correct. The 2nd medic however does not seem to have to claim like Drazerk did.
On top of that I still think mafia would like to get something like V7's role out of this game. A dayvig that's able to also do other stuff is pretty awesome. Radfield already mentioned the Chances of a Mafia visit on V7 are like 99%. Do you really think mafia let's a claimed blue role that has already proven that he's not bullshitting alive?
I don't think so in general. Now let's think of some possible solutions to that problem:
#1 V7 is Mafia - I don't think so. If you seriously want me to give more details on this, look up my filter and search for V7 or V7's (real) name and what I said about him
#2 Drazerk is Mafia - If Drazerk is mafia they can't "just" kill V7 because everyone would see that Drazerks claim was a lie because V7's dead would prove there was no protection on him although we told Drazerk to do so. Therefore they need V7 alive or Drazerk is dead as well.
Actually I can't think of something else that's makeing sense atm.
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On December 08 2011 00:05 vaderseven wrote:
[...]
Again, toad, you are trying to look to closely at the night kills. Scum killed some town players. End of (useful) story.
Well that and the claims we got is the new information we got so I think talking about it isn't bad and since it I really don't think my #1-option is a possibility I think it's a piece of the puzzle. I'm totally agreeing that what I just said about Drazerk is not strong enough of a case to say he's something like a confirmed mafia but it could be a part of it that adds up.
But I got to say I AM suspicious of Drazerk. There's some people who already pointed out he's looking weird. Maybe that's the reason he did a claim idk.
And I still don't believe a word he's said so far. That's already 3 pieces for me. Sure none of them is a strong case on its own but together I think we got AT LEAST enough to look closer at what he's doing today and what he's done so far.
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On December 08 2011 00:20 Palmar wrote:
Hey Mattchew, vote annul.
stop it for christs sake. The last time you tried to force someone to do something a townie got shot. You're still suspicious for a bunch of people and you're telling people to focus votes on someone just right after the day started?
I do agree that what you said is not bullshit (like what you said d1) but I'd like to hear people thoughts and see what they bring in our discussion.
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On December 08 2011 00:26 Mattchew wrote:your making it extremely hard even though I agree votes should be on annul until someone steps up and claims they protected him
noone will do such a thing. A medic is either happy becase he's a townie and thinks he saved someone or a medic is happy because he's a mafia and saved his buddy.
If the medic claims he's shot n2.
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I am agreeing that annul is a viable option right now, but so are people like redFF and Drazerk right now imo.
I don't the fact that those people pushing for annul are ALL suspicious
+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 20:23 Drazerk wrote:
##Vote Annul On December 07 2011 22:48 Palmar wrote:
##Vote annul On December 08 2011 00:27 Erandorr wrote:
##Vote Annul On December 08 2011 00:51 sandroba wrote:
##Vote: Annul On December 08 2011 00:56 Refallen wrote:
##Vote Annul
That's like THE WORST Wagon I ever saw. Not the reason behind that wagon but srsly guys? Look at that votelist
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On December 08 2011 00:59 Toadesstern wrote:I am agreeing that annul is a viable option right now, but so are people like redFF and Drazerk right now imo. I don't like the fact that those people pushing for annul are ALL suspicious + Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 20:23 Drazerk wrote:
##Vote Annul On December 07 2011 22:48 Palmar wrote:
##Vote annul On December 08 2011 00:27 Erandorr wrote:
##Vote Annul On December 08 2011 00:51 sandroba wrote:
##Vote: Annul On December 08 2011 00:56 Refallen wrote:
##Vote Annul That's like THE WORST Wagon I ever saw. Not the reason behind that wagon but srsly guys? Look at that votelist
EBWOP, sry
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On December 08 2011 01:05 Refallen wrote:
Toad I gave some reasons earlier at the start of day 2, and so did Palmar
I'm not questioning your reason as I mentioned I am questioning the list of people. I do agree that the case is a viable one but I'd like to discuss it rather than rushing to vote him. People like Palmar rushing to get people voting on annul with phrases like "X, vote Annul, now" are not helping but that's not the reason I'm scared of that wagon.
Everyone on that list is HIGHLY suspicious. I'm not going to sheep something like that until I got some opinions from people I think are clear town. Especially if 100% of that list is suspicious to say the least.
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On December 08 2011 01:09 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:01 Zephirdd wrote:sandroba is waaaay too different from the last game. More and more I'm inclined to believe that his new "style" is actually "I'm mafia this game". [quote=Palmar's counterarguments] On December 07 2011 23:53 Palmar wrote:On December 07 2011 23:40 Zephirdd wrote:Right off the bat, it's clear that he won't follow any advices regarding his playstyle. When town was told to worry about establishing innocence, redFF goes straight into an aggressive instance voting on Palmar before all the bullshit. Every single post of his is a bad post. filter. One-line, simple, double-posting(to generate volume on the filter), mostly zero content. Reminds me of someone on another game. Not a scumtell. Being aggressive and independent is if anything more likely to be something townies do. While his case on me was terribly forced because there was no content to analyse, it doesn't automatically make him scum. Not to mention, the game you're pointing to, Serejai was town. His "tunneling" of Corrupt ceased very soon, he didn't push him any more than after the huge post Corrupt made, despite "still being suspicious of him". It just goes with my idea that Corrupt is also scum. You can't determine anything about anyone from the actions of others, if you allow yourself that, then you're opening up a new arsenal of weapons for scum. Analyze each one of them individually, but not together. He goes on of how much we need a lynch of some sort, and then goes with this anyone not on a large wagon is anti town Exactly how much is that true? I don't disagree that it was good to lynch Hier, but how is not being on a wagon anti-town and not anti-scum? What bugs me the most is how much thought he puts into his posts: none. He doesn't expand on that thought and doesn't explain why a no-lynch would be bad in his opinion, not even to echo somebody's else opinion. Putting no thought into your posts concludes the person is trolling, dumb, or an asshole. None of these can be directly associated with that person being scum. Later, he goes back to Palmar, not because he "thinks he is scummy", but because "he is fucking around and is detrimental to town. plus we need a lynch."; Inconsistency to fit what looked like the easiest wagon at the time.
And of course he switches to Hier in order to achieve that lynch, that was soooo useful for town.
Some people hold the belief that a lynch must always be achieved very highly. Many of those people do it as town too. Corrupt then tries a mildly bad case on him during the night, that is just answered with an all-caps post. Nobody picks it, and they move on - Corrupt doesn't continue with it, everything is gone and people just ignore both. Stop creating links you cannot know exist. Day 2 had his best posts all game long: appealing to new players the same way he says Palmar did. He even tells how Palmar has done no scumhunting and is trying to fuck up any pro-town atmosphere "we" try to create, when in fact his own posts aren't creating any town atmosphere and even warranted a couple of mod warnings. Grats, you've successfully proven redFF is a moron. That doesn't make him scum. redFF is scum
If you don't think so, at least take your time to take a close look at his actions, and ask yourself whether those actions are good for town or not.
My vote goes to him, obviously. Now go put your vote on annul. I'm not ruling out the possibility of redFF being scum, there just isn't any concrete evidence for it at the moment, so I think you'd do much more good voting for annul. (disregard the link between him and Corrupt I made, as I said, it was a forced analysis there) I'm not voting annul until he tries to explain himself or someone claims his protection. If none of this happens by the end of the day-cycle, I'll gladly vote him. If I concluded that he is a moron/dumb/troll instead of a scum with that analysis, then I'm up to hammering down a moron/dumb/troll like him. At very least you proved to shape up a bit towards the end of the day.
Play nice please. Don't call someone a moron/dumb/troll. Attack arguments, not people.[/QUOTE]
Sorry for a one-line, but QFT: The fuck?
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ooooh, my bad I somehow missed that quote, thought Qatol is somehow posting in here now :p
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On December 08 2011 01:11 sandroba wrote:
LOL TOAD HYSHES MAFIA. redff is town because he has no coherent thought this game. GG
No way is hyshes mafia. Everything he's done so far looks like a mafia-hyshes. Ok I got to admit I never saw a mafia hyshes but I saw town-hyshes 3 times and although I'm trusting what he said more than what palmar, you, redFF or someone else on that list said so far. He's not a vet but he sure as hell looks town so at least what he says is his honest opinion.
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On December 08 2011 01:14 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:11 sandroba wrote:
LOL TOAD HYSHES MAFIA. redff is town because he has no coherent thought this game. GG No way is hyshes mafia. Everything he's done so far looks like a town-hyshes. Ok I got to admit I never saw a mafia hyshes but I saw town-hyshes 3 times and although I'm trusting what he said more than what palmar, you, redFF or someone else on that list said so far. He's not a vet but he sure as hell looks town so at least what he says is his honest opinion.
EBWOP :p
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On December 08 2011 01:15 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:14 Toadesstern wrote:On December 08 2011 01:11 sandroba wrote:
LOL TOAD HYSHES MAFIA. redff is town because he has no coherent thought this game. GG No way is hyshes mafia. Everything he's done so far looks like a mafia-hyshes. Ok I got to admit I never saw a mafia hyshes but I saw town-hyshes 3 times and although I'm trusting what he said more than what palmar, you, redFF or someone else on that list said so far. He's not a vet but he sure as hell looks town so at least what he says is his honest opinion. Oops. Is that maybe... a slip?
oh come on. It's a typo and what you quoted just doesn't make sense while my EBWOP DOED make sense. Context should explain that I meant town-hyshes.
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On December 08 2011 01:23 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:09 Qatol wrote:On December 08 2011 01:01 Zephirdd wrote:sandroba is waaaay too different from the last game. More and more I'm inclined to believe that his new "style" is actually "I'm mafia this game". On December 07 2011 23:53 Palmar wrote:On December 07 2011 23:40 Zephirdd wrote:Right off the bat, it's clear that he won't follow any advices regarding his playstyle. When town was told to worry about establishing innocence, redFF goes straight into an aggressive instance voting on Palmar before all the bullshit. Every single post of his is a bad post. filter. One-line, simple, double-posting(to generate volume on the filter), mostly zero content. Reminds me of someone on another game. Not a scumtell. Being aggressive and independent is if anything more likely to be something townies do. While his case on me was terribly forced because there was no content to analyse, it doesn't automatically make him scum. Not to mention, the game you're pointing to, Serejai was town. His "tunneling" of Corrupt ceased very soon, he didn't push him any more than after the huge post Corrupt made, despite "still being suspicious of him". It just goes with my idea that Corrupt is also scum. You can't determine anything about anyone from the actions of others, if you allow yourself that, then you're opening up a new arsenal of weapons for scum. Analyze each one of them individually, but not together. He goes on of how much we need a lynch of some sort, and then goes with this anyone not on a large wagon is anti town Exactly how much is that true? I don't disagree that it was good to lynch Hier, but how is not being on a wagon anti-town and not anti-scum? What bugs me the most is how much thought he puts into his posts: none. He doesn't expand on that thought and doesn't explain why a no-lynch would be bad in his opinion, not even to echo somebody's else opinion. Putting no thought into your posts concludes the person is trolling, dumb, or an asshole. None of these can be directly associated with that person being scum. Later, he goes back to Palmar, not because he "thinks he is scummy", but because "he is fucking around and is detrimental to town. plus we need a lynch."; Inconsistency to fit what looked like the easiest wagon at the time.
And of course he switches to Hier in order to achieve that lynch, that was soooo useful for town.
Some people hold the belief that a lynch must always be achieved very highly. Many of those people do it as town too. Corrupt then tries a mildly bad case on him during the night, that is just answered with an all-caps post. Nobody picks it, and they move on - Corrupt doesn't continue with it, everything is gone and people just ignore both. Stop creating links you cannot know exist. Day 2 had his best posts all game long: appealing to new players the same way he says Palmar did. He even tells how Palmar has done no scumhunting and is trying to fuck up any pro-town atmosphere "we" try to create, when in fact his own posts aren't creating any town atmosphere and even warranted a couple of mod warnings. Grats, you've successfully proven redFF is a moron. That doesn't make him scum. redFF is scum
If you don't think so, at least take your time to take a close look at his actions, and ask yourself whether those actions are good for town or not.
My vote goes to him, obviously. Now go put your vote on annul. I'm not ruling out the possibility of redFF being scum, there just isn't any concrete evidence for it at the moment, so I think you'd do much more good voting for annul. (disregard the link between him and Corrupt I made, as I said, it was a forced analysis there) I'm not voting annul until he tries to explain himself or someone claims his protection. If none of this happens by the end of the day-cycle, I'll gladly vote him. If I concluded that he is a moron/dumb/troll instead of a scum with that analysis, then I'm up to hammering down a moron/dumb/troll like him. At very least you proved to shape up a bit towards the end of the day. Play nice please. Don't call someone a moron/dumb/troll. Attack arguments, not people. I just echoed Palmar's words there, sorry 'bout it.
Palmar, what's with this black-and-white(or should I say green-and-red) thing? If I'm not with you I'm against you, really? I don't have any reason to believe that annul is more scum than redFF, therefore I'm not voting him. "Chosing sides" is just wrong, ESPECIALLY when annul still hasn't defended/explained himself.
That's actually very decent point. Why would palmar do such a thing as painting his' name green and annuls name red? To get people thinking "hey if he is mafia than I am town" or vice verca is a common mafia thing. Actually even Palmar said it's a logical error. This is not helping town at all, no matter what the flip (if we are going to lynch you OR annul) would be, you get people tunneled no matter what because they think "well if he was X than the other guy has to be Y".
That's like the worst thing that could happen to town. Don't fall for this guys although I don't know if it was sarcasm because of sandrobas post or if it was for real.
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On December 08 2011 01:25 Mattchew wrote:
I post a whole list of scum reads and noone comments.. idk why I bother only to be called out for not contributing later... and then having stretched cases made against me by anyone that I disagree with
sry I didn't mention it. Look at my reasoning. I said I don't like the list of people who are voting for annul because they're all suspicious. That's me agreeing with you without mentioning that half the people that are voteing for annul are those you got pointed out by several people, like you did.
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On December 08 2011 01:34 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:25 Mattchew wrote:
I post a whole list of scum reads and noone comments.. idk why I bother only to be called out for not contributing later... and then having stretched cases made against me by anyone that I disagree with sry I didn't mention it. Look at my reasoning. I said I don't like the list of people who are voting for annul because they're all suspicious. That's me agreeing with you without mentioning that half the people that are voteing for annul are those who got pointed out by several people, like you did.
EBWOP: sry guys. I'm out for an hour, really need to eat something and get some sugar. I'm just makeing typos all over the place because my brains fucked up right now. I'm not a good help atm
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On December 08 2011 02:56 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 02:09 Erandorr wrote:On December 08 2011 02:01 Mattchew wrote:On December 08 2011 01:51 Radfield wrote:On December 08 2011 01:25 Mattchew wrote:
I post a whole list of scum reads and noone comments.. idk why I bother only to be called out for not contributing later... and then having stretched cases made against me by anyone that I disagree with That's because there is already a ongoing discussion topic which you only touched on a little bit. I agree that Erandorr looks like scum right now. I disagree with redff, he spams and posts 1 liners every game regardless of alignment. In his case, it is not a scum tell. Both Erandorr and RedFF claimed roleblocked, but that does not mean they necessarily have a role. Oftentimes in games you are informed you were roleblocked even if you are vanilla town. The chances of v7 and Palmar being both scum is astronomically low in my eyes. Not only do BOTH of them seem like townies, and BOTH have claimed likely town roles, but there is very little chance that the conversation between them was manufactured. I think that it would have been more productive to let them answer the question of what role they are. You have now given both of them an easy out and although it was probably going to be their answers, you have now essentially limited information we could be recieving. Also, Palmar and V7 were both in the last game and Palmar was involved firsthand in the Palmar vs. Ace vs. BC in which they were all town. It would be ingenius but not out of the question for them to stage a similar occurence this game. Interesting. Would you mind explaining why us telling you our roles is pro-town? You may be right. But in that case How is saying that you were role blocked helpful? (this might be obvious to experienced players sorry)
It is useful information. Sure he could lie and we should not just take it for granted but there's no downside to it.
If you're telling the truth and town believes you they got more information even if you're a VT. If they don't, they don't who cares. It's not like it's a suspicious move to tell people you got roleblocked.
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Ok Palmar I want to hear your thoughts about Annul. I told you I'm not going to sheep on that wagon with a voting list full of suspicious people and I'd like to hear what people I think are green are thinking about it. Let's summarize those guys I have said multiple times that I think they're green:
Hyshes: Yes it's a meta one, but a pretty strong one and I'm sticking to it. He migh not be right with what he says but he's looks to be honest. He's not on the annul wagon
Radfield: He said he got some problems with Annul but thinks this wagon is wrong. At least what was pointed out by you guys is wrong. I do agree 100%. I said annul might be an option to talk about but all you said is just bullshit + I'm not going to sheep you guys
V7: I said he's lookdy pretty town to me. He looks to be emotional right now as I don't agree on a palmar vote yet although I got to agree, you're giving me a hard time to keep my green read on you Palmar.
Those 3 are basicly the 3 guys I got the biggest green read on right now. None of them voted for annul. I'm not going to vote annul until you step in this thread and give us a pretty damn good explanation why we should follow you.
And no "X, vote Annul, now" is not a good one.
I could go on. Those people who are voteing annul without a doubt are ALL suspicious right now and that's not because of the annul vote. Those people I'm not sure of or those tending-towards-town-guys haven't voted yet.
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On December 08 2011 03:55 Palmar wrote:
Radfield!
So it's you! I'm surprised, your day 1 play was actually quite solid.
that's what I meant earlier... care to explain at least A BIT?
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EPT
