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On December 08 2011 18:58 Lanaia wrote:I'm sorry. I know I said I would post, but I literally just spent 14 hours on my project and am almost done. It's now bedtime. I didn't realize it would take so long. I will post first thing in the morning. Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 15:14 Mattchew wrote:On December 08 2011 12:27 redFF wrote:
scumteam atm is palmar, prplhz, zephirdd mattchew and then someone else i dunno maybe rad? I'd be surprised if anyone on this list was mafia sorry I'm not sorry for being honest (or it might turn out I'm just stupid) Can you at the very least explain why you'd be surprised?
I would be surprised because zeph and rad I read into as definitive town. Rad for contributing and building a good town atmosphere and zeph has literally nothing suspicous about his posts. prplhz has been pushing at guys which can be read as scummy but I think that his pushing for answers has been pretty pro-town thus far. Palmar is by far the sketchiest on this list imo. His tunneling on annul screams "misleading town away from voting a mafia member to get lynched" but it could just be his ego on his read convincing him he is right. Plus I am town, so 4 out of 5 would really surprise me and Palmar I am questionable on.
On December 08 2011 22:50 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:
I still like my Erandorr case way more for the same reasons I already said yesterday. Those people on Annul right now are just not the most confirmed townies around to put it that way. That wagon formed so fast although it came to a halt that I just got a bad feeling of mafia influence here. I mean I got a case on erandorr and he's on Annul. That's not a good sign for me. Drazerk who's still a liar to me until he gets a confirmed save is not exactly the kind of guy I'd like on a bus as well.
Just look at erandorr for a second palmar. That guy did everything I expected, did a bigger post to protect himself and started one-liners right afterwards. I called him out for this behaviour, he made a bigger post in which he admits that his filter looks pretty damning but finishes along the lines "well but I'm a townie and I am really sorry I'm screwing town right now! I am willing to help you guys no matter what just shoot me a question". So people came along hugging him like a little baby that's told that it's not his fault and that everything's going to be okay.
Guess what? I asked him a simple question straight away after his post. He still hasn't answered, still somehow people think he's looking more town now with his most recent post because I guess people feel sorry for him. This is a cheap trick. The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates. I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia. And I just gave you mafia.
This was an awful post. For starters, toad pointed out your blatant contradictions. Secondly, your case against annul is not as strong or as 100% as your "self appointed thought leader" self thinks it is. Finally, if you keep trying to muscle people into voting the way you see things with hardly anyone ever fully agreeing, unless they are blindly following you because of past successes.
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On December 08 2011 23:12 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 22:59 Toadesstern wrote:On December 08 2011 22:50 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:
I still like my Erandorr case way more for the same reasons I already said yesterday. Those people on Annul right now are just not the most confirmed townies around to put it that way. That wagon formed so fast although it came to a halt that I just got a bad feeling of mafia influence here. I mean I got a case on erandorr and he's on Annul. That's not a good sign for me. Drazerk who's still a liar to me until he gets a confirmed save is not exactly the kind of guy I'd like on a bus as well.
Just look at erandorr for a second palmar. That guy did everything I expected, did a bigger post to protect himself and started one-liners right afterwards. I called him out for this behaviour, he made a bigger post in which he admits that his filter looks pretty damning but finishes along the lines "well but I'm a townie and I am really sorry I'm screwing town right now! I am willing to help you guys no matter what just shoot me a question". So people came along hugging him like a little baby that's told that it's not his fault and that everything's going to be okay.
Guess what? I asked him a simple question straight away after his post. He still hasn't answered, still somehow people think he's looking more town now with his most recent post because I guess people feel sorry for him. This is a cheap trick. The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates. I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia. And I just gave you mafia. EBWOP: You're even contradicting yourself wtf. So you're saying when it's not okay to not lynch annul because of what other people think about him but it's okay to do so with erandorr after a lynch? Woah, are you intentionally being thick? There is no way to tell anything about the alignment of a person being bandwagoned or followed by looking at the people following them. This is because you cannot scumhunt against player a based on the actions of player b. Thus you cannot deduce annul's alignment by looking at who's voting for him. However, you can deduce a player's alignment by looking at whom he's voting for. Because in that scenario you're evaluating player a's alignment based on the actions of player a. To make it simple: Annul is not responsible for the people voting him, and I'm not responsible for the people sheeping my case (which everyone should be doing). Thus: The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it.Errandor is however responsible for his own vote, and his own decision for following me, thus: I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his [Errandor's] alignment by lynching annul.If you fail to see the difference of people being responsible for their own actions, and people being responsible for other's actions, I'm not sure I can help you.
Woah, are you intentionally being thick?
He's saying that you cant say "don't look at who votes annul" followed by "watch how erandorr votes"
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On December 08 2011 23:28 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 23:19 Mattchew wrote:On December 08 2011 23:12 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 22:59 Toadesstern wrote:On December 08 2011 22:50 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:
I still like my Erandorr case way more for the same reasons I already said yesterday. Those people on Annul right now are just not the most confirmed townies around to put it that way. That wagon formed so fast although it came to a halt that I just got a bad feeling of mafia influence here. I mean I got a case on erandorr and he's on Annul. That's not a good sign for me. Drazerk who's still a liar to me until he gets a confirmed save is not exactly the kind of guy I'd like on a bus as well.
Just look at erandorr for a second palmar. That guy did everything I expected, did a bigger post to protect himself and started one-liners right afterwards. I called him out for this behaviour, he made a bigger post in which he admits that his filter looks pretty damning but finishes along the lines "well but I'm a townie and I am really sorry I'm screwing town right now! I am willing to help you guys no matter what just shoot me a question". So people came along hugging him like a little baby that's told that it's not his fault and that everything's going to be okay.
Guess what? I asked him a simple question straight away after his post. He still hasn't answered, still somehow people think he's looking more town now with his most recent post because I guess people feel sorry for him. This is a cheap trick. The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates. I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia. And I just gave you mafia. EBWOP: You're even contradicting yourself wtf. So you're saying when it's not okay to not lynch annul because of what other people think about him but it's okay to do so with erandorr after a lynch? Woah, are you intentionally being thick? There is no way to tell anything about the alignment of a person being bandwagoned or followed by looking at the people following them. This is because you cannot scumhunt against player a based on the actions of player b. Thus you cannot deduce annul's alignment by looking at who's voting for him. However, you can deduce a player's alignment by looking at whom he's voting for. Because in that scenario you're evaluating player a's alignment based on the actions of player a. To make it simple: Annul is not responsible for the people voting him, and I'm not responsible for the people sheeping my case (which everyone should be doing). Thus: The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it.Errandor is however responsible for his own vote, and his own decision for following me, thus: I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his [Errandor's] alignment by lynching annul.If you fail to see the difference of people being responsible for their own actions, and people being responsible for other's actions, I'm not sure I can help you. Woah, are you intentionally being thick? He's saying that you cant say "don't look at who votes annul" followed by "watch how erandorr votes" Why not? If toad thinks Erandorr is mafia, and Erandorr votes for annul, that should have no impact on whether or not the case against annul is valid, because Erandorr isn't annul, they're seperate people. Toad could be wrong about Erandorr, I could be wrong about annul, and Erandorr could be bussing annul. You cannot read anything about whether or not the annul wagon is valid based on who is on it. However, while the fact Erandorr votes for annul says nothing about annul, it does say a lot about Erandorr, because... Erandorr is Erandorr. I don't get what's complicated about this.
I believe he's talking about more people that look scummy then just eran jumping on the annul bandwagon, and I think he is claiming that its a nice scum hideout vote. I dont know whos right (I personally agree more with Toad based on my own reads) but I think you can read into the people (not just eran) voting for annul and question that bandwagon
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Saying that soap is your "homeboy" and almost sarcastically agreeing with him on RNG'n (especially when your vote is anon) does not mean you were supportive of him. If you re-read your filter it reads as a very disingenuous "friendship" between you and soap.
You should probably drop the I liked soap, he flipped green, therefore I'm green routine. Atleast with me it's not making you look less scummy, infact quite the opposite
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Palmar, would you go Lynch for Lynch with Annul. If he flips town you get lynched next?
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On December 08 2011 23:55 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 23:55 Mattchew wrote:
Palmar, would you go Lynch for Lynch with Annul. If he flips town you get lynched next? Yes.
you realize last time you did this... ace flipped town and you backed out
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On December 09 2011 00:01 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 23:55 Mattchew wrote:
Palmar, would you go Lynch for Lynch with Annul. If he flips town you get lynched next? please stop these things I know palmar is confident in his own and might be willing to do such a thing but it's NOT going to help town, it's just a tool to make a case look stronger "see I even would agree to that deal, np ezpz". NOONE should agree to that kind of deal unless he's 100% certain his target is scum. There is no 100% chance to know someones alignment in this game unless you're mafia and know it. Therefore it's at max something like 99%. Even if you somehow got a 99% clear case which I doubt we have here (neither annul nore erandorr) there is 99 cases in which town won't get an advantage because palmar was right and 1 case in which we're just fucked because palmar's the next guy who's getting lynched because he was wrong although he believes in his case. So unless you think yourself that palmar is 100% scum there's no reason to suggest such a thing because that "bad" case isn't a bad case if we lynch a mafia. Therefore, stop it.
In no way, shape or form, did I intend that to be an honest plan. I realize its stupid I just like hearing and reading peoples responses to it. (I wanted to wait for annul to respond to this but I have a feeling he would hop on what you just said)
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On December 09 2011 00:03 hyshes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 23:59 Mattchew wrote:On December 08 2011 23:55 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 23:55 Mattchew wrote:
Palmar, would you go Lynch for Lynch with Annul. If he flips town you get lynched next? Yes. you realize last time you did this... ace flipped town and you backed out He can't back out if we force it on him. If we are with 16 who support this 100% (so me +15, palmar not included) i'm willing to do this.
lol what? Please explain to me why you are actually willing to do this.
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On December 09 2011 00:10 hyshes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 00:09 hyshes wrote:On December 09 2011 00:07 Mattchew wrote:On December 09 2011 00:03 hyshes wrote:On December 08 2011 23:59 Mattchew wrote:On December 08 2011 23:55 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 23:55 Mattchew wrote:
Palmar, would you go Lynch for Lynch with Annul. If he flips town you get lynched next? Yes. you realize last time you did this... ace flipped town and you backed out He can't back out if we force it on him. If we are with 16 who support this 100% (so me +15, palmar not included) i'm willing to do this. lol what? Please explain to me why you are actually willing to do this. bc i'm not letting palmar have free townkills And 1 for 1 trades are good for town
so can you explain why you think annul is scum and why you think palmar is scum. and why they cant be 2 townies bumping heads.
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Keep reading page 77 jackal
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On December 09 2011 00:16 Palmar wrote:
Mattchew is actually arguing that this would be a terrible idea, so i think he simply wanted to gauge my reactions.
I actually wanted annul's reaction. I knew you would say yes lol
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prplhz, I used to want the medic to claim... but that doesn't mean hes town if he does... its extremely possible syllo shot him which could leave him still as scum. Also, who is seeing what you meant about me? I don't see anyone new just you and redFF
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Jackal you are right, Truthbringer you are also right. You guys are arguing over the same words but have different meanings. Jackal is trying to say that it is very scummy to just vote anyone without any logic or reason behind the vote other than to just get someone hung. Truth is saying that he is willing to push the lynch of someone instead of a no-lynch, and I am pretty sure he is implying that any person that close to being lynched probably has a decent case against them. Im sure if Truth was like a detective or somehow knew that the person up for lynching he would be fighting tooth and nail to have them not lynched and switch a target.
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On December 09 2011 03:37 Zephirdd wrote:
I just had this random thought, as we seem to be in this fight between Erandorr or annul's lynch.
Ask yourself which flip gives you the most.
- If Erandorr flips scum, congrats we got scum.
- If Erandorr flips town, fuck our lives.
- If annul flips scum, we can disregard his protection claim or assume it exists; either way, we got a scum and that also should increase Palmars credibility(which seems to be worrying a lot of people)
- If annul flips town, Palmar's credibility goes downhill BUT we confirm that there is at least one town-aligned medic other than the supposed Drazerk claim.
either way, annul's flip should provide us much more information than Erandorr's flip.
Yeah this point is too good for me too ignore and be stubborn about. The information gained from lynching annul is greater than anyone else.
##unvote
##vote annul
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On December 09 2011 03:51 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 03:37 Zephirdd wrote:
I just had this random thought, as we seem to be in this fight between Erandorr or annul's lynch.
Ask yourself which flip gives you the most.
- If Erandorr flips scum, congrats we got scum.
- If Erandorr flips town, fuck our lives.
- If annul flips scum, we can disregard his protection claim or assume it exists; either way, we got a scum and that also should increase Palmars credibility(which seems to be worrying a lot of people)
- If annul flips town, Palmar's credibility goes downhill BUT we confirm that there is at least one town-aligned medic other than the supposed Drazerk claim.
either way, annul's flip should provide us much more information than Erandorr's flip. The problem I have with that is that I'm not exactly willing to lynch for information. I am reading the case on annul again right after this post. A couple hours I thought it's weaker than my cae but who knows what sticking my nose into that case might make me see what I did not see earlier.
As an almost neutral party (I favor the lynching of eran straight up) the cases presented are close enough where the information becomes a tipping point for me.
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Saying what I said is bad because you only have to look at the case when it hurts palmars case but when it's supporting his case it's okay?
You gotta rephrase this i've read it 6 times and I just dont understand what you are trying to say
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EBWOP: upon more re-reading of that, you may want to re-read my filter, never did I claim that who is voting for a person should not be taken into account when making your decision.
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we don't know if they have 2 or 3 kp, and with 1 or 2 medics and seemingly other blues, I think we are only put at a slight disadvantage with a mislynch...
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oh and the sexist comment case against laniana is terrible. sorry.
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Yes. I think the benefits of the information out-weigh the people voting for annul. This is where we disagree
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EPT
