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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On October 23 2011 14:14 Ace wrote: appeal to emotion isn't a scum tell though. I think it can be. Every scum who was about to get lynched this game did it. super, meapak, chaoser. Prpl did it in PMs when it was apparent he was going to get shot. EDIT: I should clarify that IMO it can be a good tell with respect to other tells. I don't think there's any one thing scum do all the time or town do all the time, and to think like that would be dumb. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6785 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
I guess if used in conjunction with other tells it works. I've never used it as a basis for picking whether someone is Scum/Town since new players are especially prone to making outrageous emotionally charged posts. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On October 23 2011 14:21 Ace wrote: Scum do it. Townies do it to. It's not easy to tell which side does it more than the other. Just that anyone trying to convince you of something is going to use it, even unintentionally some of the time. I guess if used in conjunction with other tells it works. I've never used it as a basis for picking whether someone is Scum/Town since new players are especially prone to making outrageous emotionally charged posts. Yeah this is one thing I keep in mind. When a player like chaoser or super does it, it gives me weird feelings because they are more experienced and I don't expect that from them. prpl did it day0 but I was left uncertain because prpl always is, to some degree, scummy, regardless of alignment. He is, also, more inexperienced than chaoser and other players in this game who did similar things (or at least I think he is) I used emotional appeal in conjunction with two other big things to pin chaoser: his badly constructed case on a townie, Dropbear, and his self contradiction with respect to whom he would vote for on day 0 for mayor (he said he would vote for sandro or radfield but then later switched to Mig instead of voting Radfield. When he got pissed at Mig he randomly switched back to Radfield) | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
I was the Parity Cop. I've still never been mafia. Wonder what it's like. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Scamp
United States1086 Posts
In retrospect I'm so glad that Mig checked me night 1 and that the town had a lot of trustworthy rolechecks. I tried to get into the game as much as I could but with my illness it was extremely difficult. Luckily I didn't need to check in much to do my part. Mafia losing comes down to rolepicks. Almost always does in this kind of format. Can't wait to see the full role selection list! | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 1. Meapak_Ziphh (Tudor) [6][12] --> Rock Star 2. Kenpachi (Lancaster) [7][3] --> NKVD Agent 3. JimboSilvers [8][8] --> Inventor 4. deconduo (Tudor) [10][5] --> Bulletproof 5. Mig [13][3] --> Detective 6. Cyber_Cheese (Lancaster) [14][4] --> Godfather 7. wherebugsgo [16][20] --> CPR Doctor 8. Scamp [20][20] --> Copycat 9. Sandroba (York) [11][1] --> Godfather--> Vanilla Bodyguard for Meapak_Ziphh 10. syllogism [11][1] --> NKVD Agent --> Vanilla 11. Radfield [15][1] --> Bullet Bill 12. hiro protagonist [15][2] --> Dreamflower 13. Mr. Wiggles (Lancaster) [17][1] --> Medic 14. DropBear [17][3] --> Bomber Man 15. bumatlarge [2][16] --> Bullet Bill --> Vanilla Bodyguard for Radfield 16. prplhz (Tudor) [2][1] --> Bomber Man --> Vanilla 17. Node (York) [2][1] --> America 18. supersoft (Tudor) [4][3] --> Hider 19. chaoser (Lancaster) [4][5] --> Puppeteer 20. Arctocod [4][9] --> Ace 21. Jackal58 [9][13] --> Admiral Ackbar 22. GreYMisT [9][1] --> Dreamflower --> Vanilla Bodyguard for Meapak_Ziphh 23. kitaman27 (York) [9][1] --> Role Swapper 24. heist [1][17] --> Parity Cop 25. Foolishness [1][1] --> Puppeteer --> Vanilla 26. Erandorr [1][1] --> Dreamflower --> Vanilla 27. JACCUZISPLAT [1][1] --> America --> Vanilla Bodyguard for Radfield 28. sinani206 (York) No Numbers Submitted --> No Pick Submitted --> Vanilla Bodyguard for Radfield Actions List: + Show Spoiler + Day 1: GreYMisT and Sandroba (York) become Rock Star Bodyguards for Meapak_Ziphh Radfield is elected Mayor Mig is elected Pardoner Node is lynched Scamp the Copycat inherits the role of America The House of York decides to substitute sinani206 in as a Mayoral Bodyguard JACCUZISPLAT and bumatlarge become Mayoral Bodyguards Night 1 The House of Tudor elects to kill kitaman27 The House of Lancaster elects to kill bumatlarge The House of York elects to kill DropBear wherebugsgo shocks Cyber_Cheese hiro protagonist shoots chaoser Arctocod attempts to shoot heist but misfires Kenpachi elects to appear as Meth Man to checks and investigates deconduo, who is revealed to be from the House of Tudor Cyber_Cheese covers Mr. Wiggles as a Anarchist Medic Mr. Wiggles protects Kenpachi kitaman27 swaps roles with Kenpachi Mig checks Scamp and receives Innocent American Radfield checks Meapak_Ziphh and finds out that he is carrying a gun DropBear places a bomb on Cyber_Cheese with the code word "alliance" heist checks syllogism, receives no result kitaman27, Cyber_Cheese, chaoser, DropBear, and bumatlarge are killed. Kenpachi becomes Role Swapper Day 2 Scamp nukes deconduo Meapak_Ziphh is lynched Jackal58 suicides into Arctocod Night 2 The House of Tudor elects to kill syllogism The House of Lancaster elects to kill JimboSilvers The House of York elects to kill syllogism wherebugsgo shocks Foolishness hiro protagonist shoots Mr. Wiggles heist checks JACCUZISPLAT, receives the result "same" Mig checks heist and receives Innocent Parity Cop Radfield checks JimboSilvers and finds out that he is not carrying a gun Kenpachi swaps roles with JimboSilvers supersoft hides behind Erandorr JimboSilvers invents Bill Murray Mr. Wiggles, Foolishness, JimboSilvers, and syllogism are killed Kenpachi becomes Inventor Day 3 Scamp nukes supersoft sinani206 is lynched Night 3 The House of Tudor elects to kill Erandorr The House of Lancaster elects to kill wherebugsgo The House of York elects to kill Scamp wherebugsgo shocks prplhz hiro protagonist shoots sandroba heist checks wherebugsgo, receives the result "same" Mig checks Kenpachi and receives Guilty Inventor Radfield checks GreYMisT and finds out that he is not carrying a gun Kenpachi invents a Sticky Bomb prplhz, sandroba, Scamp, wherebugsgo, and Erandorr are killed. The Houses of Tudor and York are eliminated Day 4 Kenpachi surrenders, Town win! | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
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hiro protagonist
1294 Posts
I was Scum in AA. in that game a group of townies ( that was headed by Mig lol) all soft confirmed each other and once they make the first scum lynch, there is not much mafia can do. you cant try and sow mistrust in the thread about them because they will all jump on you, then lynch you, which then makes them as a unit stronger. the rest of town claims to that group and your only hope is that the make a big fuck up. It was so frustrating not being able to be proactive and just sitting around hoping that they stop trusting each other. something most of mafia probably felt this game. IMO the game was over once Mig and Rad where in office. All my efforts were were not put into scum hunting, and instede I tryed to find out Mig and Rads aliment. after day one I was like 95% sure rad was town by his actions alone. after day 2, I was sure of Mig. GG | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On October 23 2011 14:38 Protactinium wrote: Role List: + Show Spoiler + 1. Meapak_Ziphh (Tudor) [6][12] --> Rock Star 2. Kenpachi (Lancaster) [7][3] --> NKVD Agent 3. JimboSilvers [8][8] --> Inventor 4. deconduo (Tudor) [10][5] --> Bulletproof 5. Mig [13][3] --> Detective 6. Cyber_Cheese (Lancaster) [14][4] --> Godfather 7. wherebugsgo [16][20] --> CPR Doctor 8. Scamp [20][20] --> Copycat 9. Sandroba (York) [11][1] --> Godfather--> Vanilla Bodyguard for Meapak_Ziphh 10. syllogism [11][1] --> NKVD Agent --> Vanilla 11. Radfield [15][1] --> Bullet Bill 12. hiro protagonist [15][2] --> Dreamflower 13. Mr. Wiggles (Lancaster) [17][1] --> Medic 14. DropBear [17][3] --> Bomber Man 15. bumatlarge [2][16] --> Bullet Bill --> Vanilla Bodyguard for Radfield 16. prplhz (Tudor) [2][1] --> Bomber Man --> Vanilla 17. Node (York) [2][1] --> America 18. supersoft (Tudor) [4][3] --> Hider 19. chaoser (Lancaster) [4][5] --> Puppeteer 20. Arctocod [4][9] --> Ace 21. Jackal58 [9][13] --> Admiral Ackbar 22. GreYMisT [9][1] --> Dreamflower --> Vanilla Bodyguard for Meapak_Ziphh 23. kitaman27 (York) [9][1] --> Role Swapper 24. heist [1][17] --> Parity Cop 25. Foolishness [1][1] --> Puppeteer --> Vanilla 26. Erandorr [1][1] --> Dreamflower --> Vanilla 27. JACCUZISPLAT [1][1] --> America --> Vanilla Bodyguard for Radfield 28. sinani206 (York) No Numbers Submitted --> No Pick Submitted --> Vanilla Bodyguard for Radfield Actions List: + Show Spoiler + Day 1: GreYMisT and Sandroba (York) become Rock Star Bodyguards for Meapak_Ziphh Radfield is elected Mayor Mig is elected Pardoner Node is lynched Scamp the Copycat inherits the role of America The House of York decides to substitute sinani206 in as a Mayoral Bodyguard JACCUZISPLAT and bumatlarge become Mayoral Bodyguards Night 1 The House of Tudor elects to kill kitaman27 The House of Lancaster elects to kill bumatlarge The House of York elects to kill DropBear wherebugsgo shocks Cyber_Cheese hiro protagonist shoots chaoser Arctocod attempts to shoot heist but misfires Kenpachi elects to appear as Meth Man to checks and investigates deconduo, who is revealed to be from the House of Tudor Cyber_Cheese covers Mr. Wiggles as a Anarchist Medic Mr. Wiggles protects Kenpachi kitaman27 swaps roles with Kenpachi Mig checks Scamp and receives Innocent American Radfield checks Meapak_Ziphh and finds out that he is carrying a gun DropBear places a bomb on Cyber_Cheese with the code word "alliance" heist checks syllogism, receives no result kitaman27, Cyber_Cheese, chaoser, DropBear, and bumatlarge are killed. Kenpachi becomes Role Swapper Day 2 Scamp nukes deconduo Meapak_Ziphh is lynched Jackal58 suicides into Arctocod Night 2 The House of Tudor elects to kill syllogism The House of Lancaster elects to kill JimboSilvers The House of York elects to kill syllogism wherebugsgo shocks Foolishness hiro protagonist shoots Mr. Wiggles heist checks JACCUZISPLAT, receives the result "same" Mig checks heist and receives Innocent Parity Cop Radfield checks JimboSilvers and finds out that he is not carrying a gun Kenpachi swaps roles with JimboSilvers supersoft hides behind Erandorr JimboSilvers invents Bill Murray Mr. Wiggles, Foolishness, JimboSilvers, and syllogism are killed Kenpachi becomes Inventor Day 3 Scamp nukes supersoft sinani206 is lynched Night 3 The House of Tudor elects to kill Erandorr The House of Lancaster elects to kill wherebugsgo The House of York elects to kill Scamp wherebugsgo shocks prplhz hiro protagonist shoots sandroba heist checks wherebugsgo, receives the result "same" Mig checks Kenpachi and receives Guilty Inventor Radfield checks GreYMisT and finds out that he is not carrying a gun Kenpachi invents a Sticky Bomb prplhz, sandroba, Scamp, wherebugsgo, and Erandorr are killed. The Houses of Tudor and York are eliminated Day 4 Kenpachi surrenders, Town win! couple things wrong: prpl was scum (not green) on the action where I shock him Dropbear was also town not scum so when the house elected to shoot him his name should be red EDIT also when radfield checks jimbo, he should be green not red | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
why no vote rigger/showtime/kingmaker? Vote rigger could easily be used to save one of your members from a lynch, by instead lynching the mayor or pardoner. Then the double lynch would be real useful too seeing as most of the lynches were complete one sided bandwagons. Showtime could end day early and seriously fuck over town. Kingmaker would allow you to simply king your scumbuddies and lynch through people during the day, or king a townie and convince them some scummy townie was scum, and have them get lynched | ||
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DropBear
Australia4351 Posts
I really had no idea what was going on this game cos the bulk of it was in pms. Fortunately the two people I was in most contact with were Mig and bugs. I asked at least 10 people on IRC to help lynch Meapak and they all said "Na he's too important" lol. Also Mig, I find it amusing that my fucking retarded plan to bomb sandroba would have netted a mafioso. You're right I am a useless failure. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On October 23 2011 13:40 wherebugsgo wrote: Cheese getting found out was almost entirely due to Jimbo's fake, but I'm not so sure he would've looked very good by n2 anyway I would have been perfectly fine, I was the gf kthx On October 23 2011 14:12 Mig wrote: Also kind of funny the entire pre game town discussed how we needed defensive roles and to turtle. Virtually everyone agreed with this, probably the first time in history people have agreed with a sandroba plan. Town then proceeded to literally not pick a single protection role, not one. Hider/Rockstar/Bulletproof/medic all picked by mafia. Instead town has 8 people try to pick kp roles lol. Plans are so beautiful in theory DropBear places a bomb on Cyber_Cheese with the code word "alliance" I'm not sure if I would have walked into that. On October 23 2011 16:21 syllogism wrote: So did Kenpachi really pick NKVD agent at #2 as scum because he misunderstood the role description The synergy with puppeteer was good | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On October 23 2011 18:51 Cyber_Cheese wrote: I would have been perfectly fine, I was the gf kthx Plans are so beautiful in theory DropBear places a bomb on Cyber_Cheese with the code word "alliance" I'm not sure if I would have walked into that. The synergy with puppeteer was good The fact that you were GF wouldn't have prevented you from being lynched or shot. You were on a short list of players at the time who needed investigation. Luckily Jimbo established the connection when he did. If I hadn't shot you I would've shot prpl, so either way a scum would've died to my shot that night. | ||
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JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
On October 15 2011 03:19 JimboSilvers wrote: tl;dr Sandroba is scum Radfield, That's for you. The reason why I was so sure that he was scum, was that he thought that he could get away with saying that sort of thing. A townie might think up that sort of plan, but they would realize that it's scummy, and not post it. Scum would think it up, and say "well, this is a plausible town plan" and then say it. The fact that he disappeared from the thread (to a place where i couldn't pressure him, or get real defense out of him) should have made him a night one hit. That being said, I don't think I pushed him as much as I should have later on. Regardless of whether or not he meant well by those remarks I pointed out, townies wouldn't have said them in the first place. Sorry to the town for the lack of an invention night one, I really did think I had sent it in. Those who have questions about the second invention can read my PM's with syllo. + Show Spoiler + Was it the best use of inventor? No. You're right, there were problems with it, but I figured that the town was so far in the lead that I could afford to have a bit of fun (which is what the game is all about, right?), plus I really, really wanted to make something creative. So yes. It wasn't the "best" idea, in terms of helpfulness to the town, and it turned out pretty bad, but it fulfilled the "fun" part of the game. (Btw, the reason for the flip, and the entire chezinu house was to get in contact with scum, much like foolishness did, and convince them that we were a third faction that got pick a side at some point. This worked to some extent, but never that well because people didn't think that there would be another party. The fact that I flipped as chez house, would have added a legitimacy to our claims, and hopefully gotten us in contact with more scum.) But again, that never really happened because foolishness died too. Original Message From syllogism: Haha well I still don't quite understand what the purpose was. Basically the invention could only confuse town and postpones the first useful invention by another night. It's certainly more interesting than another dull list check, but still even if you had survived, you would have looked quite scummy following the ordeal. How would you explain to mig that you decided it was a better idea not to give or tell him anything and rather just pretend to be dead for another day? Original Message From JimboSilvers: Did you read the invention? I put in a fail-safe for just such occasions as this, in which the person who I gave it to, could hit button, and instantly reveal all those who had died with the fake flip. Unfortunetly, the person who I gave it to was also killed that night. I (and the mods) didn't think about that possibilty, leading to a situation where there was no way to turn off the fake flip, and we ended up just turning it off after a while. Again, I put in a mechanic to save us from confusion, but the town shot the guy who could do it. lol. Original Message From syllogism: That's better, but at least you should see now how that was a horrible idea, especially when it even masked other town flips Original Message From JimboSilvers: There was a reason for doing it, that WAS pro-town. The change in flip was just an aside, and was never the main purpose of the invention. Unfortunetly, because i died, it was the only part of my invention that was manifested in game. Just because I didn't do what Radfield asked me to doesn't mean i was playing to win. Original Message From syllogism: You are supposed to play to win rather than troll the game and attempt to lose the game for town on purpose. Can't believe you did that | ||
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JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
Town's biggest failure was being too trusting, imo. It worked out in the end, but if mafia had gotten at all ballsy with thier play, they could have gotten their hands on a TON of information that would have helped them. The second biggest failure was falling into the trap that innocent=correct. Wbg should have never taken the shot on foolishness given what he knew. He was MUCH more informed on him than Mig and Radfield, and regardless of whether or not he believed them to be town, he shouldn't have let them influence him that much. On a similar note, just because you have been confirmed doesn't mean that you are right. So don't always assume you have the best plan, or that your reads are better than someone who is in much better contact with the subject of your analysis. I had little to no time to play this game, which is why I went for the somewhat cheesy (no pun intented) irc tricks. I didn't have time to do analysis of the traditional type, so I just tried to analyse people who had connections, then tested them in irc. Once I decided that was too cheep to keep doing, I mostly disappeared because of school. (I was originally not going to play, but Foolishness convinced me to join the day the game started.) I think that my smurfing as Jimbo was successful. I wasn't lynched day 1. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [POV] + Day0: Confused about all this role picking stuff, people are gonna pick whatever they want anyway. Also in my house, #1 and #4 pick but people pick whatever they want for what I consider silly reasons. In hindsight maybe deconduo could have soaked up some hits but he was unlucky to get checked and nuked. Day1: Confused about all this election stuff. I don't really see any other candidates but Radfield and Mig, and Radfield seems a bit more scummy than Mig but I doubt it matters. JimboSilvers might be another candidate but I don't think it matters still, especially when he's inventor and town, he could be pretty dangerous in office. It was frustrating being confirmed scum because I wasn't smart enough to figure out the rule9 thing myself so I had it from chaoser. Probably wouldn't have mentioned the rule9 thing unless wherebugsgo had poked me so that was pretty cool of him even though they all ended up drawing wrong conclusions. Totally arbitrarily claimed to Arctocod because he asked me, went for VT because that's what I am, and Dreamflower because I thought that was a cool role that somebody else would have taken and it wasn't as scum as Bomber. Apparently that saved me or something so that was cool, but forever I would be branded as untrustworthy which pretty much ended the game for me right here. Night1: Meapak_Ziphh decided that we're hitting kitaman27, I don't really want to argue about this so I'll just go along with that. I think it was Mig who told me I wasn't playing like my past games which was because I was so confused, would have done the same as town I'm sure, but I thought that maybe I should try doing what I did past game. Day2: Try to go for the player with the most reputation on the tlmafia forums like I didn't my last two games (DoctorHelvetica in LotR which made him ragequit and Incognito in XLV which made him ... I have no idea), that player is Foolishness. Arctocod wrote a case on Meapak_Ziphh that I kinda blocked, that was just a boon, but in the end Radfield and Mig had already decided the lynch and Meapak_Ziphh didn't really defend himself that well I think. Still going to vote for JimboSilvers because he's actually the best lynch from my point of view, as I laid out in the thread. Night2: supersoft wants to hit sandroba or syllogism but I don't really think either of those targets are too good. supersoft claimed hider so he's going to die tomorrow I think, so I guess we can shoot syllogism, maybe he's some sort of power role, sandroba isn't so I don't want to hit him, also he's scummy. I wanted to hit wherebugsgo because I thought that maybe he was Dreamflower or at least a power role but then I was like "hopefully he'll miss and kill somebody and then himself" so we went for syllogism. Day3: I'm getting quite sick and tired of this game since apparently everybody knows I'm scum. I guess I'll continue with somewhat dubitable cases, I guess it's townie like for a guy in my position. Also I'll try to talk more in PMs because I got that advice from coach. Worst case situation for townies right now would be that either Radfield or Mig are scum so I guess I'll try to talk to people in PMs about this. Talked to GreYMisT, hiro protagonist and Erandorr about this with no success. Night 3: All alone now, sandroba and wherebugsgo are trying to make me admit to being scum and coach says that maybe I'll have to coordinate with other scum teams but I think this would be playing against my winning condition and against rules so I really don't want to do that. It's kinda tempting though but then I remember that sandroba is claiming tudor in these PMs and that's kinda weird since I'm house tudor. Hopefully he's not scum but acting very scummy and then maybe they'll hit him with Dreamflower tonight. I'm gonna hit Erandorr in my hopes that he's the last bodyguard and I can't really waste hits on a possible Dreamflower or on America since they could maybe misfire and then that would be good for me. Post game thoughts: I was pretty lucky in this game. If I could have done anything differently I would have replaced out after Day1. At this point I'd never get into a town PM circle and there was nothing going on in the thread itself. After playing my first PM game, I don't feel like PM games are for me. Unrelated to this game in particular, I think the rules are very bad and distracts from the game and are not fully thought through and are not at all sufficiently specified. Thanks to hosts for hosting and thanks to everybody for playing. Also, what's breadcrumbing, why is it illegal, and where does it say that it is illegal? | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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