And it can be re-formed by anyone with a strong enough imagination to believe it! Chezinu House lives on in the hearts and minds of the faithful!

LONG LIVE HOUSE CHEZINU!

JimboSilvers

United Kingdom167 Posts

October 23 2011 10:00 GMT

#1517

On October 15 2011 03:19 JimboSilvers wrote:
tl;dr
Sandroba is scum

Radfield, That's for you. The reason why I was so sure that he was scum, was that he thought that he could get away with saying that sort of thing. A townie might think up that sort of plan, but they would realize that it's scummy, and not post it. Scum would think it up, and say "well, this is a plausible town plan" and then say it. The fact that he disappeared from the thread (to a place where i couldn't pressure him, or get real defense out of him) should have made him a night one hit. That being said, I don't think I pushed him as much as I should have later on.

Regardless of whether or not he meant well by those remarks I pointed out, townies wouldn't have said them in the first place.

Sorry to the town for the lack of an invention night one, I really did think I had sent it in.

Those who have questions about the second invention can read my PM's with syllo.

+ Show Spoiler +

Was it the best use of inventor? No. You're right, there were problems with it, but I figured that the town was so far in the lead that I could afford to have a bit of fun (which is what the game is all about, right?), plus I really, really wanted to make something creative.

So yes. It wasn't the "best" idea, in terms of helpfulness to the town, and it turned out pretty bad, but it fulfilled the "fun" part of the game. (Btw, the reason for the flip, and the entire chezinu house was to get in contact with scum, much like foolishness did, and convince them that we were a third faction that got pick a side at some point. This worked to some extent, but never that well because people didn't think that there would be another party. The fact that I flipped as chez house, would have added a legitimacy to our claims, and hopefully gotten us in contact with more scum.)

But again, that never really happened because foolishness died too.

Original Message From syllogism:
Haha well I still don't quite understand what the purpose was. Basically the invention could only confuse town and postpones the first useful invention by another night. It's certainly more interesting than another dull list check, but still even if you had survived, you would have looked quite scummy following the ordeal. How would you explain to mig that you decided it was a better idea not to give or tell him anything and rather just pretend to be dead for another day?

Original Message From JimboSilvers:
Did you read the invention?

I put in a fail-safe for just such occasions as this, in which the person who I gave it to, could hit button, and instantly reveal all those who had died with the fake flip. Unfortunetly, the person who I gave it to was also killed that night. I (and the mods) didn't think about that possibilty, leading to a situation where there was no way to turn off the fake flip, and we ended up just turning it off after a while.

Again, I put in a mechanic to save us from confusion, but the town shot the guy who could do it. lol.

Original Message From syllogism:
That's better, but at least you should see now how that was a horrible idea, especially when it even masked other town flips

Original Message From JimboSilvers:
There was a reason for doing it, that WAS pro-town. The change in flip was just an aside, and was never the main purpose of the invention. Unfortunetly, because i died, it was the only part of my invention that was manifested in game. Just because I didn't do what Radfield asked me to doesn't mean i was playing to win.

Original Message From syllogism:
You are supposed to play to win rather than troll the game and attempt to lose the game for town on purpose. Can't believe you did that

JimboSilvers

United Kingdom167 Posts

October 23 2011 10:07 GMT

#1518

On an unrelated note, I think that setups like this revolve around a good deal of chance. The mafia's biggest failing in my eyes was their role picks. They had good draft order, but I think that they could have been much more greedy with the picks.

Town's biggest failure was being too trusting, imo. It worked out in the end, but if mafia had gotten at all ballsy with thier play, they could have gotten their hands on a TON of information that would have helped them. The second biggest failure was falling into the trap that innocent=correct. Wbg should have never taken the shot on foolishness given what he knew. He was MUCH more informed on him than Mig and Radfield, and regardless of whether or not he believed them to be town, he shouldn't have let them influence him that much. On a similar note, just because you have been confirmed doesn't mean that you are right. So don't always assume you have the best plan, or that your reads are better than someone who is in much better contact with the subject of your analysis.

I had little to no time to play this game, which is why I went for the somewhat cheesy (no pun intented) irc tricks. I didn't have time to do analysis of the traditional type, so I just tried to analyse people who had connections, then tested them in irc. Once I decided that was too cheep to keep doing, I mostly disappeared because of school. (I was originally not going to play, but Foolishness convinced me to join the day the game started.)

I think that my smurfing as Jimbo was successful. I wasn't lynched day 1.

JimboSilvers

United Kingdom167 Posts

October 23 2011 22:16 GMT

#1541

The problem with the irc impersonation is the fact that i could have caught every scum that ever logged into irc with it. I didn't because I realized that it was game breaking, and stopped. It's extremely powerful, especially when people are unaware of it like they were this game.

That being said, i DON'T think it should be banned. Those avenues should be open, and people should be allowed to be creative with their play (like honeypot). Looked down on? Sure, but banned? No. I think that people should be made aware of it, so that they can defend against it, but I really feel like it is in the same grain as bread-crumbing roles, and alignment PMs, which have been traditionally allowed. Mafia is a multi-faceted game, and I want it to remain that way. Creativity should always be rewarded.

JimboSilvers

United Kingdom167 Posts

October 23 2011 22:19 GMT

#1542

On October 23 2011 22:54 sandroba wrote:
@kav you being right about me being mafia does not equal your case being right at that point. Look at how this game worked and you will see that I wasn't pushing mafia objectives there =P

My point wasnt' that you were pushing mafia objectives, but that you were pushing objectives that only mafia would push. There IS a difference. This is a way of hunting scum that I learned from playing scum, but haven't heard many people talk about it, so it's still a little new imo, and not well tested.

The key is that there are some plans that would legitimately help the town, that almost no townie would think of. It takes a certain mindset to come up with the plans, and even thought they are still town favored, mafia will almost always be the ones who actually think them up. For example, you said that we should turtle. Radfield heard that, and agreed. It DOES make sense if you look at it the right way. However, I doubt that Radfield would have reached the same conclusion that you did, because he was town.

Again, I don't know how well this works. Obviously I was right, but with 40% scum, there's no easy way to tell if it was a legitimate way of identifying you as scum. I have used it in a few other games, and it seems to work more often than not, so I'm inclined to believe that it IS legitimate.

JimboSilvers

United Kingdom167 Posts

October 23 2011 23:38 GMT

#1560

I love the fact that this thread is way more active after it's over than when the game was running.

Wiggles brought up an important point that I stumbled upon when I was trying to decide the legitimacy of what I was doing: Impersonating persons outside the game. This should absolutly be banned. It should never be OK to impersonate another player outside the game, such as coaches, mods, and observers.

On another note, another reason why I think that irc SHOULD be allowed, is that it's just as mafia-favored as it is town favored. Think about it. If I were mafia, I could have just as easily impersonated someone, then acted scummy. I could easily spread misinformation, and wreak havoc with PM's and irc. The more and more I think about it, the more and more ways I can think of that mafia can use this to their advantage.

I pose as Mig right before the day post, and tell the DF that we need to switch targets really quick, and shoot someone else.

I pose as Radfield, and say that I got a red check on someone.

I have a fake conversation where I pretend to pose as Chaoser, and have my scum buddy pose as Cheese, and then have a scummy conversation between the two of us. Leak the PM's, wait for the vig's to shoot two innocents. (Lol, did mig ever think to check the validity of those irc logs? Doubt he did. Luckly I wasn't mafia, and I wasn't double faking it.)

The list goes on.

JimboSilvers

United Kingdom167 Posts

October 24 2011 04:10 GMT

#1569

For the record, I never leaked any of my exploits outside of the Chez house. Wbg was the one who ended up sending all that stuff to Mig. Which, btw, you should have consulted us about first. When you sent Mig the log I posted with me talking to him via smurf, it made me very suspicious of him, as there was no reason for him to know that that had happened. If he was town, than no harm would come to him, and if he was mafia, I might have been able to catch a scum pardoner.

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