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On August 24 2011 19:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
Cause you say things in a manner no one would listen to!
If you actually said things in a reasonable manner, we'd probably value your opinion. Yesterday I disregarded what you were saying because your manner seemed scummy to me.
Yes, I am aware that if we lose this game it's probably very largely my fault, because I haven't been able to secure the trust required for town to listen to me when I explain we're about to lynch a townie.
What I'm slightly annoyed at, is that while I'm playing terribly, and really, I'm more mad at myself than anything else, there seems to be no one else ready to put in the work to actually think about the game at hand. It should have been pretty obvious that Hiro and Sevryn were being lynched because they were being a bit derp.
But someone already put it right in the thread that it's generally townies who are derp, not scum. I think Hiro was playing a pretty good town game, better than he ever has. He was blatantly town in my eyes. Now I can't fault people for not seeing things I fail to properly explain, but I hope that when you guys re-read his posts, you'll understand.
I would have preferred a no lynch over killing hiro.
Problem is, for some reason this town is more concerned with not being wrong, than with actually being right. Like people are afraid to think independently and read the thread objectively. The hive mentality this majority lynch spawns is extremely mafia favored, at least with a town that is so afraid of being made fool of.
If we have the chance, I'd suggest to our vigilantes to focus on shooting active people tonight. The reason for this is that we severely lack information, so instead of shooting the scummiest lurkers like vigis usually should do, I'd ask you to shoot scummy active people.
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On August 24 2011 19:23 Lucidity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 19:05 Palmar wrote:On August 24 2011 19:01 Lucidity wrote:
Can't believe he was green though -.- yah, it's because you don't think, or you're scum. And for some reason no one listens to a word I say. You believed hiro's Vet claim. I don't think your judgment this game is that great. Trying to introduce chaos13 as the new lynch candidate 2 hours before deadline was also a blunder. If anyone is not thinking, it is you. Based on the previous game I played with you I expected more from you... That's worrying me.
I believed his Vet claim because I believed he was town. That's not bad judgement. I can't actually tell the difference between vanilla townies, medics, dts, vigis and veterans. Asking that of me is absolutely ridiculous. I didn't think townies would lie about their roles, but who cares. I knew he was not scum, so I don't care what he claims.
I can, with reasonable amount of confidence, tell apart town-aligned people and scum-aligned people.
And I already apologized, I simply wasn't perfectly available to try to do the switch earlier. As I already promised, the switch had no negative effect on town. It was not a blunder, however much people trying to discredit me make it want to look like one.
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I'm actually just going to believe Mig's claim of hating mafia games at the moment, so I'm not going to consider him scum. I know the last two games he's played in must've tilted him a bit.
If he's using it as an excuse, we'll find out later. And I'll tunnel him every game from there on. I just don't think Mig is dirty enough to play like that, if he was scum he'd be defending him with in-game reasons instead of emotional reasons.
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On August 24 2011 19:31 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 19:28 supersoft wrote:On August 24 2011 19:23 Lucidity wrote:On August 24 2011 19:05 Palmar wrote:On August 24 2011 19:01 Lucidity wrote:
Can't believe he was green though -.- yah, it's because you don't think, or you're scum. And for some reason no one listens to a word I say. You believed hiro's Vet claim. I don't think your judgment this game is that great. Trying to introduce chaos13 as the new lynch candidate 2 hours before deadline was also a blunder. If anyone is not thinking, it is you. Based on the previous game I played with you I expected more from you... That's worrying me. You're a joke. If you expect something from palmar, you have to give him the chance to prove himself. Consequently you have to vote for his targets. You were wrong two times now. How can you claim that palmars judgement isn't that great, while your judgement isn't existing. One additional word to your accusations towards me: You didn't see that hiro was green, because you're just not smart enough. This is nothing personal or whatever, but if you don't see that the wagon on hero came out of the nowhere and builded up exceptionally fast, with noone reasoning his decision, I can't help you. Okay. I think this post convinced me lol. Come morning I'm voting you.
That would be a pretty stupid move.
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On August 24 2011 19:38 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 19:33 Palmar wrote:On August 24 2011 19:31 wherebugsgo wrote:On August 24 2011 19:28 supersoft wrote:On August 24 2011 19:23 Lucidity wrote:On August 24 2011 19:05 Palmar wrote:On August 24 2011 19:01 Lucidity wrote:
Can't believe he was green though -.- yah, it's because you don't think, or you're scum. And for some reason no one listens to a word I say. You believed hiro's Vet claim. I don't think your judgment this game is that great. Trying to introduce chaos13 as the new lynch candidate 2 hours before deadline was also a blunder. If anyone is not thinking, it is you. Based on the previous game I played with you I expected more from you... That's worrying me. You're a joke. If you expect something from palmar, you have to give him the chance to prove himself. Consequently you have to vote for his targets. You were wrong two times now. How can you claim that palmars judgement isn't that great, while your judgement isn't existing. One additional word to your accusations towards me: You didn't see that hiro was green, because you're just not smart enough. This is nothing personal or whatever, but if you don't see that the wagon on hero came out of the nowhere and builded up exceptionally fast, with noone reasoning his decision, I can't help you. Okay. I think this post convinced me lol. Come morning I'm voting you. That would be a pretty stupid move. Well I'd be down to vote you too, cause your actions over the past day have definitely eroded my town opinion of you. I think you're scumbuddies with supersoft. Both you and supersoft have attempted to gain towncred by landing on the right side of the voting both days. SS was more obvious about it but you've been spearheading these distraction efforts too. You BOTH are claiming we're all too dumb etc etc to see that hiro/sev were town when in reality hiro played like absolute trash and Sevryn's mistakes made him seem like a pretty good target day 1 too. Yeah, we were ultimately wrong in our assessments, but I stand by the reasoning. You can filter my posts and go back and see my analysis of hiro, for example. Honestly though, you and supersoft jumped several levels all at once in scumminess, ESPECIALLY in that last 2 hours vote switch you guys attempted.
I'm scum because I'm right, lol
I'm not saying town is stupid, I'm saying it's my own fault for not explaining my arguments in a good enough manner to prevent town from doing stupid shit.
Basically, at this point you're either town hiding the fact that you're not objectively reading the thread behind claiming hiro and sevryn are bad, or you're scum trying to do look like you're doing exactly that.
I have been leaning town on you for a while, I simply think your reasons were wrong. Being wrong is fine, being okay with being wrong is good town play, but we also need to be objective instead of emotional. Read the entire thing again with the knowledge you have now. You should find things a bit more clear.
I'm not giving up, and at some point people will listen.
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@Lucidity, are you going to explain to me how believing the Vet claim was bad judgement, cause I'm waiting?
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On August 24 2011 19:51 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 19:44 Palmar wrote:On August 24 2011 19:38 wherebugsgo wrote:On August 24 2011 19:33 Palmar wrote:On August 24 2011 19:31 wherebugsgo wrote:On August 24 2011 19:28 supersoft wrote:On August 24 2011 19:23 Lucidity wrote:On August 24 2011 19:05 Palmar wrote:On August 24 2011 19:01 Lucidity wrote:
Can't believe he was green though -.- yah, it's because you don't think, or you're scum. And for some reason no one listens to a word I say. You believed hiro's Vet claim. I don't think your judgment this game is that great. Trying to introduce chaos13 as the new lynch candidate 2 hours before deadline was also a blunder. If anyone is not thinking, it is you. Based on the previous game I played with you I expected more from you... That's worrying me. You're a joke. If you expect something from palmar, you have to give him the chance to prove himself. Consequently you have to vote for his targets. You were wrong two times now. How can you claim that palmars judgement isn't that great, while your judgement isn't existing. One additional word to your accusations towards me: You didn't see that hiro was green, because you're just not smart enough. This is nothing personal or whatever, but if you don't see that the wagon on hero came out of the nowhere and builded up exceptionally fast, with noone reasoning his decision, I can't help you. Okay. I think this post convinced me lol. Come morning I'm voting you. That would be a pretty stupid move. Well I'd be down to vote you too, cause your actions over the past day have definitely eroded my town opinion of you. I think you're scumbuddies with supersoft. Both you and supersoft have attempted to gain towncred by landing on the right side of the voting both days. SS was more obvious about it but you've been spearheading these distraction efforts too. You BOTH are claiming we're all too dumb etc etc to see that hiro/sev were town when in reality hiro played like absolute trash and Sevryn's mistakes made him seem like a pretty good target day 1 too. Yeah, we were ultimately wrong in our assessments, but I stand by the reasoning. You can filter my posts and go back and see my analysis of hiro, for example. Honestly though, you and supersoft jumped several levels all at once in scumminess, ESPECIALLY in that last 2 hours vote switch you guys attempted. I'm scum because I'm right, lol I'm not saying town is stupid, I'm saying it's my own fault for not explaining my arguments in a good enough manner to prevent town from doing stupid shit. Basically, at this point you're either town hiding the fact that you're not objectively reading the thread behind claiming hiro and sevryn are bad, or you're scum trying to do look like you're doing exactly that. I have been leaning town on you for a while, I simply think your reasons were wrong. Being wrong is fine, being okay with being wrong is good town play, but we also need to be objective instead of emotional. Read the entire thing again with the knowledge you have now. You should find things a bit more clear. I'm not giving up, and at some point people will listen. You're not scum because you're right. You're scum because you were right when no one else was.There's a big difference. Care to explain why, if you knew all along hiro was town, you didn't reason me and others out of voting him? Care to explain why you would pick a lurking lynch target in the last 2 hours of the day to focus your attention on, when we already had 3 candidates to lynch, ALL with decent analysis on them? Care to explain why you would seemingly just throw out 20+ hours of information and work just to muck up the last 2 hours with a vote on chaos13 (lol) instead of Mig or hiro? We could've used that time to discuss, instead we lost it all scrambling to try and get a vote on an actual lynch candidate most of us had spent hours analyzing.
I'll break it down for you:
Care to explain why, if you knew all along hiro was town, you didn't reason me and others out of voting him?
I did, I tried to get the lynch away from him, here's one of the posts. I already said multiple times that knowing Hiro Protagonist this was not the way he'd ever play as scum. This is based on meta, so it's harder to explain, and in turn for you to understand.
Read my posting history, I state multiple times that I don't think hiro can be scum.
Care to explain why you would pick a lurking lynch target in the last 2 hours of the day to focus your attention on, when we already had 3 candidates to lynch, ALL with decent analysis on them?
We had two candidates, Mig and Hiro. xtf wasn't a serious contender for that lynch, or I'd probably in the end have liked him better than the other two. I already said multiple times that I did not have the time to build the case, and it simply did not occur to me to try the switch until 2 hours before the lynch.
I don't know why people keep fixating on that, because it's not like that thing was in any way detrimental to town.
Main reason I tried it is because I don't believe either candidate is scum.
Care to explain why you would seemingly just throw out 20+ hours of information and work just to muck up the last 2 hours with a vote on chaos13 (lol) instead of Mig or hiro? We could've used that time to discuss, instead we lost it all scrambling to try and get a vote on an actual lynch candidate most of us had spent hours analyzing.
What did you want to discuss, which townie to lynch? I'm not here to make sure everything goes to plan, I'm here to find and kill scum. How does it matter if you spend hours analyzing it when it's wrong? I said multiple times that being wrong is okay, it's perfectly fine. But once you realize you were wrong, you need to step back and re-read the thread.
Every time a townie gets lynched, you need to re-read the thread, instead of lynching the next player who must be scum because he wasn't wrong like you.
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On August 24 2011 19:53 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 19:45 Palmar wrote:
@Lucidity, are you going to explain to me how believing the Vet claim was bad judgement, cause I'm waiting? LOL You believed the vet claim, of all things. Hiro's logic was so convoluted I have no idea how anyone could've believed he actually was a vet. He didn't even provide flavotext for it.
He could have claimed a town-aligned planar dragon and I'd have believed him.
why?
Because I believed him to be town aligned, and I had no idea what his role was.
I can't believe people are actually giving me shit for only being able to deduce his alignment, not his role.
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On August 24 2011 20:56 chaos13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 19:23 Palmar wrote:
If we have the chance, I'd suggest to our vigilantes to focus on shooting active people tonight. The reason for this is that we severely lack information, so instead of shooting the scummiest lurkers like vigis usually should do, I'd ask you to shoot scummy active people.
Vigilantes, whatever you do, do not listen to this. Unless you're an amazing scumhunter (there's a few of you out there, so if you're one of them feel free) you are more likely to hit town. Then you have not only eliminated a townie, you have eliminated an actively contributing townie, which is BAD. If you feel compelled to shoot, hit lurkers. Even better, hit a scummy lurker. DT's check Palmar. Hell, vig him. He's still stirring this game up into an anti-town environment, so even if he's town it would be of more use than hitting a lurker.
shut up scum.
Or if you're town... you're amazingly bad.
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yeah, probably not bad, just scum
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from now on, you don't exist chaos13. Go talk to visceraeyes. He's town though, you not so much.
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I'd love to hear more of your thoughts jackal.
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Do I have to go back to find the post?
He wrote a big post about simply being fed up with mafia. I believed him because I've played quite a bit with Mig, enough to know that it's very unlike him to try and use excuses like that if he was scum. He's much more likely to be genuine and be town.
In addition, his posting dramatically improved in the latter half of the last tday.
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On August 24 2011 19:51 wherebugsgo wrote:
You're not scum because you're right.
You're scum because you were right when no one else was.
This is going into my profile.
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On August 24 2011 22:09 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 21:42 Palmar wrote:
Do I have to go back to find the post?
He wrote a big post about simply being fed up with mafia. I believed him because I've played quite a bit with Mig, enough to know that it's very unlike him to try and use excuses like that if he was scum. He's much more likely to be genuine and be town.
In addition, his posting dramatically improved in the latter half of the last tday. but you don't find his change of heart to be scummy? Suddenly starting to put extra effort into posting after having "genuinely" stated that he's burned out – is that part of his meta too?
That's exactly what I'd expect him to, he's Mig, he's a nice guy and a fair player, he doesn't want to cause the town to mislynch him, so he mans up and posts some good stuff.
That's what I think.
I'll probably just write a big post before daybreak about all the things that I think, then I'll just let you guys decide if what I say will ever become something to listen to.
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On August 25 2011 00:45 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 00:38 supersoft wrote:
Well kurumi, I thought that you wanted to lynch me if hiro flips red. Do You think I am dumb? Just because You weren't on wagon which led on townie lynch does not make You a townie, same goes with lynches going on mafia. Sure, You CAN be Town, but there are many shenanigans which could happen.
You're basically claiming a vigilante and your target 11 hours before the deadline.
If somehow you're not scum and supersoft is (the chances of this are very low) the scumteam will just block the shot with a doctor or roleblock you.
Unless you have a bigger plan (trying to draw a roleblock... or something... I don't know...) this is basically a terrible way to shoot.
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Yeah I know.
I'm generally active, but not like I've been this game. Thing is, I don't yet know how to convince an unresponsive town without PMs. This is the first time as town where I want to be listened to and get completely ignored. In all those games I've played recently I've had my way, and town has done very well for it.
For some reason, mafia influenced or not, this town is different than others. People here refuse to listen to reason, and lynch based on what, but not on how. The ridiculousness reached new heights when people started accusing me of being scum for the crime of being right.
I'll take a step back, I think I've made my thoughts pretty clear, I've built my cases and submitted my reads. The rest of you can do what you wish with them, I'm not posting unless necessary now.
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On August 25 2011 06:52 GMarshal wrote:
Now looking for one more replacement. PM me -__-
Why hasn't Trotske been modkilled?
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EPT
