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TL Mafia XLIV - Page 4

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 21 2011 00:24 GMT
#554
here's to hoping I'm wrong!
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 21 2011 09:02 GMT
#668
Can I yell at town now?
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 21 2011 14:28 GMT
#674
Vigi list:

1. BrownBear
2. BrownBear
3. Chaos13
4. DropBear
5. RayzorFlash
6. Mig
7. Any lurker you fancy.

Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 21 2011 14:29 GMT
#675
actually, bump mig above rayzorflash.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 21 2011 16:47 GMT
#680
why would I be a serious candidate?

It's pretty obvious to anyone that has actually read the thread I'm town.

Welcome btw.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 21 2011 17:01 GMT
#682
Fuck, I've contributed more to this thread than anyone, I've posted the most detailed analysis of anyone.

god you're terrible.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 21 2011 17:06 GMT
#683
Just do me a favor and kill me tonight mafia types. I'm playing terribly, I let town lynch a townie which means I'm fucking terrible at this game, I'll be asking for a replacement.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 21 2011 17:50 GMT
#687
this has nothing to do with balance or other people, it's purely a self-induced-rage.

What happened here on day 1, is that someone presented something I consider a weak case and bad arguments against a player I was 99.8% sure was town (hence my chances post!). I then presented a case against someone I'm pretty damn sure is mafia, yet I did not successfully push my case.

Now to me this means I failed terribly at doing my job on day 1, and I'm just ridiculously mad at myself for letting mafia run the thread like that. Not being able to push the lynch away from someone I knew would flip townie, is the ultimate failure in my mind. If BrownBear actually flips scum, I'll be even madder at myself, if he flips town, I'll feel a bit better, I just don't think he will.

Basically, I let someone with bad reasoning outargue me, which means something is wrong and I need to take a step back for a while. I don't mind being wrong or right, I do mind being unable to do my job.

Thing is, what I want to do now is rehash my entire strategy and approach, because clearly this is bad. But if I do that I'll just be lurking through the game. If GM finds a replacement, it's unfair to you guys that I'm being useless.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 21 2011 18:10 GMT
#691
On August 22 2011 02:57 Jackal58 wrote:
Quit whining and get back on your horse.


Derp, you're right.

Sorry about flipping out a bit, I'm stupidly competetive and I take myself failing very seriously.

Giving up is worse than failing.

Let's do this.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 21 2011 18:35 GMT
#695
im just going to pretend ve doesnt exist, he's town anyway.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 21 2011 19:16 GMT
#702
On August 22 2011 03:39 chaos13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 03:35 Palmar wrote:
im just going to pretend ve doesnt exist, he's town anyway.


I point out your scumminess and suddenly I'm scum, and apparently should be vigi hit.

Viscera points out your scumminess and he's town.

HMMMMMMM


what is the reason you refuse to act your normal, critical self?

surely you understand that this is not based on something as simple as you want to make it look like. i dont give a shit what people do, its how they do it that matters.

are you intentionally not putting any thought into this game, or have you simply not put in the time to read it yet?
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 22 2011 00:12 GMT
#711
that's not a replacement for me btw.

I just re-read the entire thing since I cast my vote on sevryn last night, I'm really glad so many townies realized that the lynch was a bad one. I also re-read Rayzor's posts, and I don't think he is scum. The lynch is 2am my time and 4am CET, so if switches are to happen they need to be initiated sooner.

Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 22 2011 08:53 GMT
#752
*lurks*
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 22 2011 09:12 GMT
#756
On August 22 2011 18:08 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 17:53 Palmar wrote:
*lurks*

start being useful
same goes to me, brb re-reading the thread.


I think I've made my opinions pretty damn clear, but I've made some fundamental mistakes this game that stop town from considering my opinions as valid. I think I have laid down the most detailed analysis of someone in the thread that isn't completely based on meta, and I stand by my conclusions in that one.

I'm fine with lynching Mig actually, there are multiple mafia in this game, and unlike sevryn I'd actually give him a 50% chance of flipping red. I'm much more convinced BB is scum though. I don't know Chaoser's meta so the argument made against him may therefore look weaker to me than it should. Hopefully others who know him will correctly push his lynch if they're right.

Just to rehash, this remains my opinion:


On August 20 2011 22:20 Palmar wrote:
BrownBear



So, I decided to try a new tactic this game. Most towns spend day one arguing casually about policies and then lynch a scummy lurker. This is sometimes effective, sometimes kind of weird. This game I decided to just tear up the thread with some super-awesome tunneling on the first scummy fucker I found, and read responses by other people. There are two people who stick out to me as scummy from their reactions to my tunneling. Namely Sevryn and BrownBear. I feel more confident BrownBear is the scum of the two.

There are quite a few things in BrownBear's logic that really scare me. First off, let's take a look at the post that initially raised my suspicions of him:


Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 03:35 BrownBear wrote:
On August 20 2011 03:21 supersoft wrote:
no.


Posts like this make me sad. Put some effort into the game.

Palmar/DropBear, I'm starting to believe at least one of you isn't, however this could just as easily be two townies chest-pounding day 1, at which point mafia just sits back and watches the fireworks as one or both get lynched, town wastes time, and they don't have to do jack shit.

Point being, Palmar, we know you want us to lynch DropBear. DropBear, we know you want us to not lynch you. Arguing about it just takes up space.

So, DropBear, if you want us to not lynch you, name someone who you think would be a better lynch target, and why. If no better alternative presents itself, I'll vote for you over a no-lynch, and you're the only person really with votes currently on you, so I highly recommend giving us some reasons why your neck should be spared.

And Palmar... you keep making statements like "nard's totally setting me up he's scum" or "dropbear's scum lets investigate by lynching him" without ANY backup. "Your first post was a question to mods ppl know YOU MUST BE COVERING YOUR TRACKS OMG MAFIA" does not constitute evidence. If DropBear's gonna be active and making plans, I'm inclined to NOT lynch him day 1, because it means one less inactive jackass dragging us down. Plus, the more active he is, the sooner he'll slip up if he actually is scum. Of course, lynching is preferable to no-lynching in 99.99% of cases, so I'll vote for him in the end if nobody else comes forth.

But I want to see a better case from you regardless.

Finally, DB's plan: in a perfect world, it'd be great, but I don't think an unofficial mayor will have the power necessary to break ties of more than one vote. Also, how do we know this mayor will be pro-town? How do we know you are pro-town? How do we know if ANYONE'S pro-town at this point?

We don't really, so I think an unofficial "mayor" will just serve to clog the thread further, will draw med-protects away from people who really need them like blues, and will end up not benefitting town in any major way.


I immediately called him out on the scum logic in his posts. I pointed out that one wouldn't have to make a big stretch to understand the bolded sentence as a free pass to anyone who was being active in the thread. Which conveniently enough also clears BB of any suspicion.

He also mentions the possibility of two townies just shouting at each other.

The reason this jumps so much out to me is that I used exactly the same logic as scum on day 1 in SNMMII as scum. I pointed out that two loudmouths were probably just townies shouting at each other and then I suggested that the real threat are the inactive people.

Deflecting lynches onto inactives is mafia's favorite way of playing day 1.

BrownBear's defense of this, is that I'm twisting his words. But can anyone honestly says he understands the bolded sentence in any other way than BrownBear wants to kill off inactive people over people who are active, because the active people will reveal themselves as scum at some point.

Next post, after demanding contribution from me:

Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 06:52 BrownBear wrote:
On August 20 2011 04:05 Palmar wrote:
On August 20 2011 03:53 BrownBear wrote:
I don't think I have... please quote where you're getting that from.

The only thing I can think of is in my large post, where I said if DB is gonna be active I'm less inclined to lynch him. This means I'm less inclined to lynch DB right now, NOT that I'm "heavily advocating lynching a lurker". Please don't put words into my mouth.


Here you go:

On August 20 2011 03:35 BrownBear wrote:
If DropBear's gonna be active and making plans, I'm inclined to NOT lynch him day 1, because it means one less inactive jackass dragging us down. Plus, the more active he is, the sooner he'll slip up if he actually is scum. Of course, lynching is preferable to no-lynching in 99.99% of cases, so I'll vote for him in the end if nobody else comes forth.



Well, I read that as any scummy asshole with a plan is going to get a free bye on day 1, because you want to lynch someone inactive?

Or does, the free pass on making plans and blanket statements to avoid the lynch only extend to a specific pool of people?


I asked for something of substance and this is what I got?

Oh, you.

Ok, something you've pulled out of my reasoning that really just wasn't there. You're saying I want to lynch someone inactive. Not necessarily true. Implied, maybe, but NOT what I said. Again, you really need to stop putting words in people's mouths.

What I said there, and what anyone who took 5 seconds to think rationally got out of that sentence before you started spewing shit all over it, is that regardless of what I think about DropBear's alignment (and for the record, I think he's more green than not. Scummy, possibly, but not confirmed scum), I want to see people post more. We're on only 17 pages halfway through the first day, which is kind of sad. I want more content. DropBear's providing it.

I'm for lynching any of the semi-actives - that is, the people who are just contributing one liners and sheeping along to do the bare minimum to fly under the radar. Inactives = people who haven't noticed the game's started yet, people in different time zones who are sleeping, or people who don't care about the game. No reason wasting a vote on them - modkills will get them soon enough. The real area where mafia are probably lurking are the semi-actives - the guys who have posted a few times to be able to say "hey, I was here", but haven't contributed anything of substance or worth to the discussion.

That doesn't include DropBear right now. At the very least, he's provoking discussion both about his silly fake-mayor plan, and about whether or not he's red. He's defending himself and providing some alternate ideas. (Although, DropBear, "I will do so if it becomes necessary"? Really? That's not doing you any favors, bro). Right now, my list of semi-actives include: wherebugsgo, hiro protagonist, Foolishness, and JeeJee (when you read his posts, they don't contribute nearly as much as they do ask questions that go unanswered). I'm open to adding more to that list tho.

So let's start talking about those guys! JeeJee is the most suspicious to me right now: He's posted the most, but I see not all that much in his posts... it looks to me as though he's trying to post while not adding anything of value to town discussion. Just a gut feeling, but I still feel a lot better about lynching him than I do DropBear.

Anyway, long story short: You read things out of my post that didn't exist, those things are the entire basis of your case against me, your case against me sucks, gg, try harder.

##Vote: JeeJee


The first sentence is interesting. He makes a point that he did not say what I called him out for, yet he implied it? What's the difference? The mindset he's working in is the same.

I ask that everyone reads the post above carefully, and preferably often. Look at what he's saying. He's basically throwing a one-line accusation towards JeeJee in an attempt to divert the discussion off himself and DropBear.

The bolded sentence is another one of interest. I don't actually understand how he's going to scumhunt if he actively states that "mafia is amongst the semi-actives". Well sherlock, if you tell us that you're going for semi-active people, won't the mafia just stop being semi-active? And note that he himself is definitely not amongst the semi-actives, so he cannot be mafia, by his theory.

This case against JeeJee is basically just a throw-away case, BB knows well enough that JeeJee is not going to get lynched based on this case, and he's happy to look like he's not supporting a town lynch while throwing an off-vote on some random "semi-active".

Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 09:55 BrownBear wrote:
It's cute that you tell everyone I'm wrong without explaining exactly why I'm wrong.

lern2backupyouraccusations



Interesting that he calls out for other people to back up their accusations, yet your entire case against JeeJee is:

Show nested quote +
So let's start talking about those guys! JeeJee is the most suspicious to me right now: He's posted the most, but I see not all that much in his posts... it looks to me as though he's trying to post while not adding anything of value to town discussion. Just a gut feeling, but I still feel a lot better about lynching him than I do DropBear.


Re-read his posts.

Look at them from the point of view he is scum, understand what motivations he might have for posting like this if he's town.

I think we have a great lynch candidate here town.

BrownBear is scum

##Vote BrownBear

Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 22 2011 09:27 GMT
#762
On August 22 2011 18:23 Mig wrote:
You know palmar you could actually put the effort in to look at chaoser's past games, I even linked 39 earlier. Instead of just relying on other people to form your opinion for you.


I can only push one lynch target today.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 22 2011 12:27 GMT
#764
I have a really hard time believing Foolishness would fail badly enough as to not read the rules, especially considering it's normal for veterans to get killed by a rb/kill combo.

Also, I don't take orders from scum chaos13.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 22 2011 12:34 GMT
#765
But to be fair, you forget the worst part about Foolishness's actions. Only like 3 posts earlier he accused chaoser or BB of being mafia, and then he's willing to listen to the arguments presented by chaoser just a few posts down.

I still think we should just lynch BB today.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 22 2011 12:55 GMT
#768
I'm not sold on Rayzorflash, the only thing that's a bit weird is that he apparently seems to know what an ideal atmosphere looks like for town, yet he doesn't know what wifom means. He claims this is his first game, but it really looks like he's either put a lot of work in research, or he's actually played some before.

But if we assume he's telling the truth, I very much doubt he'd have the balls as mafia to post the way he's done, so I'd like to remove him from the discussion as of now.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 22 2011 13:27 GMT
#772
Are you arguing with yourself?
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
August 22 2011 13:33 GMT
#774
Yes, I have quite a few questions. are you available for a conversation?

First thing's first. Do you have any major suspicions. If it's up to you and you only, whom would you lynch today?
Computer says mafia
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