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Merc Mini 2

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-11 16:15:06
July 11 2011 16:07 GMT
#39
Do you get informed if the other party does not send the contract PM to the host?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-11 16:28:21
July 11 2011 16:20 GMT
#41
Do the contract terms have to involve actions or can they be statements as well? I'm assuming the former as this would be too breakable otherwise

e: what I'm saying here is that since town outnumbers mafia, there's no anonymity and town will know if someone doesn't agree to send the contract, they can completely control what kind of contracts get made
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 11 2011 16:36 GMT
#43
I see, it makes sense now. In that case

/in
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 11 2011 16:43 GMT
#47
I can sit out if Nisani signed up earlier
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 11 2011 21:46 GMT
#61
Well that makes it clearer, if harder to abuse
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 10:27 GMT
#79
You should probably make the contract stipulate that the vest isn't booby trapped as in mafia mini 1

I'll be leaving in a bit but will be available later tonight
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 10:34 GMT
#83
That's a good plan in general; either inform a likely townie/thread about the purchase or make sure the contract is so specific the item in question can not be harmful
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 10:40 GMT
#86
That was just general advice and I find it pretty unlikely there to be more than one, non-rigged at least, vest in the game. Would make it pretty hard for the scum team, especially if they don't have RPGs or something that can break them
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 10:41 GMT
#87
If RPGs ignore the vest, then announcing them like that is a terrible idea
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 14:38 GMT
#106
I'm back, so feel free to contact me for any reason; I'm interested in information as well. Contracts should only be announced in the threat if there's a very good reason. I think in general it's a bad idea because the information is much more useful for mafia as they know what kind of roles they've available and the alignment of the contracting parties (SK aside). It's far better to reveal the contracts in private to someone who you really trust. Pretty straightforward.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 16:38 GMT
#122
Can you just ask the other party to include full description of the item in the contract and once LSB banking gets the item, it will see if it matches said description? If the description doesn't match, the contract terminates automatically and items are returned. Should ask LSB to clarify if that's possible
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 16:45 GMT
#127
Will the violator of said breaching item be punished if the other party dies before he can file a complaint? LSB banking will at least know the transferred item didn't match the contract terms
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 16:47 GMT
#128
Oh I suppose you could include a contract term that stipulates the other party will be found to be in breach of contract if the party who receives the item dies before the end of the night. Remember, contracts are fulfilled at the end of the day, so at least there won't be night kills messing up with that.
Then you would have time to file for a breach before night ends, or if you die the other party will be punished.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 16:55 GMT
#132
"Indeed, and there are no limits on the contracts" Perhaps the contract can stipulate that LSB banking makes the violation public.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 16:56 GMT
#133
These aren't holes in the rules, figuring out contracts that benefit your team is a very important aspect of the game, as suggested by that quote about there being no limitations
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 20:06 GMT
#170
It's extremely useful to get a blue/town read on someone in this format, much more so than a traditional game
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 20:09 GMT
#172
What, because I didn't elaborate? I can if you want
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 20:13 GMT
#176
It's a format in which you've have to find players you can trust, because you can't just go around giving your items to random players. In a regular game all you've to do is scum hunt, but in this game many abilities/items cost money and might be dangerous in scum hands. Making contracts with and revealing information to players who you can't trust is the worst mistake you can make.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 20:36 GMT
#186
I'm not surprised, I find it unlikely a good player would be so daring/careless as scum, especially in hist first few posts
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 22:29 GMT
#203
Even if that ability is real, I would recommend not using it right now, unless there is an extremely good reason. Your role says nothing of your alignment and appears to reveal a lot of information to you.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 12 2011 22:48 GMT
#209
On July 13 2011 07:42 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2011 07:29 syllogism wrote:
Even if that ability is real, I would recommend not using it right now, unless there is an extremely good reason. Your role says nothing of your alignment and appears to reveal a lot of information to you.


Is this to Chezinu? He's just having some fun.

Who do you think we should lynch today?

Yes it looked like trolling, but anyway I agree with sandroba on nisani201. Besides what he already stated above, I don't like this part

I guess I'll post my opinions on some players now, because I'll probably be asked to do so anyways sooner or later.

It just sounds like a strange thing for a townie to say. You should be posting your opinions because your contribution not only could help finding reds, but also because it can help us to confirm your alignment. You make it sound like it just a formality/obligation and not something that you would be doing without prodding.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 13 2011 21:10 GMT
#261
Heist have you been trying to find townies in pm land
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 13 2011 21:10 GMT
#262
This is re: you echoing my earlier thoughts here

trying to find almost-certain townies is almost as important as catching scum in this game. trust is the most important factor of this game

syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 13 2011 21:20 GMT
#263
As for the current lynch candidates, I've made my thought clear in Pm land, but I consider nisani201 far better lynch candidate, for reasons already stated and he has done little to alleviate those concerns . I'm rather concerned that two of you, especially chaos13, want to lynch Radfield not because you find him scummy, but because you think he is SK based on rather flimsy evidence. The problem with that kind of line of thought is that the odds of actually catching SK based on such weak reads (who actually plays SK like that: "well I'm sk so I need a bulletproof vest and something I can use for extra KP later, might as well ask in the thread straight away in a PM game) on day 1 are very low. There's only one SK and 3 scum. You should be looking for players who are suspicious in a way that they could be either.

##vote: nisani201

Originalname is another I'm suspicious of; Palmar is spot on. I will be deciding between ON and nisani201 within the next few hours.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 13 2011 21:41 GMT
#267
Sandroba voted Nisani201 earlier and has not unvoted. You've Gmarshal twice
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 07:53 GMT
#324
Well now that I'm Confirmed Townie~, feel free to mass claim in PM
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 08:53 GMT
#325
Also I would like to know if you've made a contract. You do not necessarily have to give me the details
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 09:24 GMT
#327
That's interesting because Chaos13 told me that

"They don't differentiate between benign or malicious visits. If someone visits you, it kills them."

No mention of placing them between two specific players or anything
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 09:31 GMT
#331
Also chaos13 didn't question me at all when i made inquiries about his item. He answered the questions and offered to sell. No warnings, no attempts to make sure I'm town. Nothing.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 12:42 GMT
#335
I think we've the whole scum team/SK nailed down, this was fun
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 15:22 GMT
#338
But hey Chaos13, to give you the benefit of the doubt, feel free to list people who you have

"have been recommending that one of the two targets be a strong suspect."

Oh, and have you sold any yet and if so, to whom
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 17:09 GMT
#341
Oh okay, are you going to answer the other question too? I'd also like to see the full description of the item and full role claim. Don't take too long, should be easy to copy/paste
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 17:20 GMT
#343
By the way, this is the chain of conversation, obviously I didn't sound interested and didn't want to know the details

Original Message From chaos13:
Based on money only. If you give me 355,000 to cover the contract fee you'll have a deal.

Show nested quote +
Original Message From syllogism:
Is it one per day or based purely on how much money you have?

Original Message From chaos13:
I can make them for 350,000 each.

Original Message From syllogism:
And how many of these defensive weapons do you have

Original Message From chaos13:
They don't differentiate between benign or malicious visits. If someone visits you, it kills them.

Original Message From syllogism:
Do they activate when someone offensively targets you (for instance, via a night kill)? I might be interested depending on the exact properties.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 17:30 GMT
#345
You forgot to answer the actual question

If it was anyone who visited, that would be more of a problem. However, you place it between two specific players and it is only if one of those two visits each other that it is activated. As such, I have been recommending that one of the two targets be a strong suspect.

To whom have you been making these recommendations
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 17:32 GMT
#347
lol
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 17:33 GMT
#348
So have you sold any
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 17:36 GMT
#350
Did you make the testament before day ended
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 17:42 GMT
#353
Well then I know for a fact you didn't sell anything or are lying about the testament. Either way, even disregarding that you are 100% scum
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 17:45 GMT
#355
On July 15 2011 02:44 chaos13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2011 02:42 syllogism wrote:
Well then I know for a fact you didn't sell anything or are lying about the testament. Either way, even disregarding that you are 100% scum


There are three things wrong with this statement.
1. I sold something
2. I am not lying about the testament
3. I am not scum

Now which one of you three (Palmar, sandroba, you) is killing me tonight?

See you don't have all the information available, so it's easy to see why you made the mistake of claiming that. Anyway, you don't need to know
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 18:35 GMT
#364
I like how he doesn't "reveal" who he testamented his stuff to, but thinks basically everyone is suspicious but Kurumi, who he is somehow certain is a townie. Chaos13, why is Kurumi town aligned? What has he done besides voted against lynching scum today
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 18:51 GMT
#371
If someone bought a mine from him, he should claim. Since you can place them between any two people, it shouldn't matter much if we know who he sold it to.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 18:52 GMT
#372
Another reason to claim is because he almost certainly omitted the part where it says he can PM the host to make the mine explode
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 18:55 GMT
#374
Hey do you know what's a good way to miss a zero in the middle of the sentence? By not copy pasting the sum from the PM the host gave you
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 14 2011 19:23 GMT
#376
I don't think we really need to go on, but

Almost. You'll see I mentioned early on that I would not sell them to anyone on my suspect list. No reason to give them to someone who is mafia.


Jackal58 and GMarshal. These two are both really good players, and they're both giving me a really bad feeling that I can't quite place the origin of


And he sold it to jackal
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 15 2011 05:03 GMT
#420
Well I still think everything you did/said regarding your venture was suspicious chaos13
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 15 2011 10:34 GMT
#435
We made a slight RTM-esque miscalculation on day 1, but things make sense now
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 15 2011 15:31 GMT
#444
Are contracts processed before or after lynch. That is, if someone gets lynched, will his contract go through

The thing is, it doesn't even matter because contracts cost money and I can tell how many contracts have been made based on how much money disappears. All the money lost is accounted for.

##Vote OriginalName
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 15 2011 15:35 GMT
#449
So can you trade stuff in real time
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 15 2011 15:36 GMT
#453
What's the point of the vault again
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 15 2011 15:37 GMT
#454
Someone has to PM the host the password and he gets what's inside, immediately?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 15 2011 15:41 GMT
#458
Can you show the PM conversation you had with nisani201. You've less than a minute
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 15 2011 15:48 GMT
#463
1 Market forecast, it reads 12 million Kronos
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 15 2011 15:51 GMT
#464
Why didn't you warn people of these potentially dangerous items when Nisani flipped mafia Tekker
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 15 2011 15:54 GMT
#468
Why did buy an item for 500k from nisani when you can't use items
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 15 2011 16:31 GMT
#501
Originalname who do you think is scum
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 15 2011 20:05 GMT
#515
Rad still needs to have his bat taken away, that thing looks dangerous
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 16 2011 11:27 GMT
#538
Radfield why do you think kurumi tried to bus jackal and chezinu? Is it because you and your scum buddy ON tried to kill Jackal last night
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 16 2011 16:28 GMT
#571
How about we just whack you with the bat tonight and there will be no kills
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 16 2011 20:00 GMT
#582
Nah, pretty sure Rad has those
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 16 2011 23:50 GMT
#603
ON I'm open to lynching Radfield instead if you make a solid case
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 17 2011 00:38 GMT
#605
Thanks, looks like we can lynch him tomorrow then
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 17 2011 01:03 GMT
#609
On July 17 2011 09:58 Kavdragon wrote:
Syllogism, OriginalName had no support from anyone. This is an exact repeat of SNMM3. Vote radfield today

Switching now would look scummy imo and I've an image to maintain. We can lynch Rad for information tomorrow
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 17 2011 09:44 GMT
#628
Yes you attempting a last minute switch from nisani/rad on day 1 has nothing to do with you being the last mafia. Should have switched to ON since that was the alternative wagon, oh wait
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 17 2011 10:02 GMT
#630
And I agree on cycles being shortened, this should be over
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 17 2011 14:32 GMT
#637
We are lynching Rad tomorrow and then Chezinu for non-payment of royal taxes; if he bleeds black or red, that's a bonus
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 17 2011 14:46 GMT
#652
GM/Kav would have had to fake claim hitman, which is a terrible (day 1 no less) fake claim as it's easily verifiable, because mafia/sk would have pooled their money and already killed a townie or two with it

Also there's no way scum has that kind of role in a 8 3 1 settings
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 17 2011 15:21 GMT
#655
We considered all that after day 1 and this initially lead us towards chaos13. In the end, however, there was little incentive for scum to bus in a 8 3 1 game, unless there were no viable townie candidates. There were no attempts made by the scum team to convince people to vote for you instead of Nisani, not even in private. Nisani put little to no effort into his defence; he didn't even bother fake claiming despite me specifically asking him to do so in private. I could go on, but it doesn't matter. Even if you miraculously don't flip scum RB, we'll still win, it will just take a day longer
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 17 2011 16:28 GMT
#665
Hey Rad who do you think is the SK?

Follow up question: if you are town, why aren't you trying to get him lynched today
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 17 2011 16:33 GMT
#669
So who do you think were the mafia and sk hits last night
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 17 2011 16:49 GMT
#682
Actually the town win con in this game is to kill all non-town aligned players, according to LSB. We just didn't feel like lynching you since you were so open about being SK and we didn't think we could lose either way
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 17 2011 16:56 GMT
#686
On July 18 2011 01:53 Chezinu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2011 01:49 syllogism wrote:
Actually the town win con in this game is to kill all non-town aligned players, according to LSB. We just didn't feel like lynching you since you were so open about being SK and we didn't think we could lose either way

My win condition was to kill all the competing banks... Are you sure? LSB never gave me a win condition except for killing the competition.

That's what LSB said in a PM, could have been a mistake
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 17 2011 17:16 GMT
#693
"Oops"
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 07:00 GMT
#720
##vote Palmar
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 07:01 GMT
#721
I'd rather lynch Rad today, this is a pressure vote
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 07:04 GMT
#722
##unvote
##vote Chezinu


boring
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 07:09 GMT
#724
##unvote

Don't hammer yet, someone has to write a certain contract first
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 16:04 GMT
#731
[b##]vote Chezinu[/b]
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 16:04 GMT
#732
##vote Chezinu
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 20:40 GMT
#748
No, how about you shoot Rad
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 20:40 GMT
#749
And then if the game is still isn't over, shoot yourself
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 22:07 GMT
#757
uhh
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 23:21 GMT
#765
What
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 23:23 GMT
#768
Hahaha at least we won, and I did tell Palmar I thought his role claim was suspicious
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 23:25 GMT
#769
and I thought it weird Palmar wasn't keeping Jackal up to date on things
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 23:32 GMT
#772
In case someone is curious, Palmar claimed he was a confirmed mason with Jackal so their role PM confirmed their alignments. I thought it was suspicious to have confirmed townies in this setup, let alone them being called masons as it's a PM game. It just didn't make sense for them to both be mafia so I had no reason to believe he was, in the end, lying.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 23:39 GMT
#775
On July 19 2011 08:38 sandroba wrote:
The setup was very interesting, but heavilly town favored imo.

Palmar could win with mafia though
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-19 00:09:50
July 19 2011 00:09 GMT
#784
It didn't really matter what Jackal did because him being mafia required a townie lying about his role claim, which we just weren't willing to accept. Remember, Palmar claimed his role pm confirmed Jackal as town. I've seen romeo/julia setups like this before but it just didn't cross my mind. At least I kept pointing out things I thought were strange to Palmar haha
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