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On April 13 2011 16:08 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 15:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Today on the shitter I thought "flamewheel is either assassin or detective making some ballsy play"
however i don't believe you are bad enough to DT claim day 2 on a check, I mean really? that's textbook shit. This pandain stuff sounds like mumbo jumbo you made up after the fact.
Here's what I think. I think you're the assassin. I think you came to the same conclusion as me:
Coagulation and Kitaman27 are the other two assasins.
You think you can win very quickly, if coagulation is lynched and you burn your hit on Kitaman27. I'm not convinced. This is just very odd behavior and I wouldn't expect this from a player like you of all people.
I'll look back on coagulations posts and crosscheck with your analysis tomorrow. Still working on homework tonight but I'm skeptical right off the bat. Please elaborate more on your DT gambit ESPECIALLY why you decided to claim?
Why not simply make a case? Everyone believed you were trying to help town as the assassin? Why not just say "look coagulation is probably mafia here is my case as to why" and get the lynch onto him? As I see it you have a huge incentive to see Coag dead if you got the same read on him I did and you are indeed the assassin : / It's illogical not to claim. Do you really think that in a game without PMs and in a situation where I'm going to get shot tomorrow night by Assassins I'm not going to tell the town that I've found a red? I have to claim at this point. Otherwise I'm just going to get shot by Asssassins during Night 2, and there's your best blue down the drain. There's honestly nothing else to it: I either claim and prove myself by having Coagulation lynched, thus drawing Medic protection so that I can continue searching, or I die to Assassins Night 2. As to why Coagulation is red, and not black, look again at the Kavdragon issue. Look at how much he was spamming the thread, trying to up his townie cred before it went through. Remember, conveniently after you as Mayor was finalized and you made your announcement that you would lynch him he went silent, only coming out to flame and taunt afterward. An Assassin would have no reason to try to prevent the Kavdragon lynch, and have no reason to taunt you post-lynch anyway, as that just draws suspicion. An Assassin would be more than willing to point out reds since that builds him townie cred and possibly gets him medic protection, which he sorely wants. Coagulation has been really hesitant to point out reds. Combine that with the Kavdragon situation and it's highly unlikely that Coagulation is black. If I were Assassin and Coagulation is lynched and turns up Assassin then I still don't have a chance of winning. If he's not red, that means I obviously didn't rolecheck. I'll still proceed to get shot the next night since there's no way in hell BrownBear would put only two Assassins in a 40 person game.
Works for me.
Everyone should be voting for Coagulation. No getting around this one.
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On April 13 2011 16:22 Lemonwalrus wrote:
Protact...who is 'we'?
the town, the people playing this game, looking too had for a slip that isn't there imo
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On April 13 2011 16:48 Coagulation wrote:
Why the fuck would a experienced player like FW ever claim to be an assassin when hes a DT. Do you really think he would put that kind of heat on himself if he was honestly a PRO TOWN ROLE.
This whole thing reeks of desperate scum
he has nothing to gain from this as scum
it doesn't reek of anything besides you getting lynched
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On April 13 2011 16:46 Barundar wrote:
What this really comes down to is that protact and coag can't be on the same team. One of them is lieing. Congrats to us, we are getting us a scum.
As for who of them to kill first, I'm going to go with my read on coag, which has been pro town so far, despite what protact has written. Protact is writing a long story to explain his actions, and I'm going to go with the simplest explanation: He has been lieing and is now throwing another gambit to avoid dieing.
Both the simplest explanation and my read points away from coag being scum, that's how I will vote.
No, go with the DT check. This is absurdly bad mafia play for someone like protactinium. What does he have to gain from this as scum? delaying his death? How?
If he's scum -
Assassins will still kill him tonight
he's trading himself for coagulation which is a worthless trade and doesn't benefit mafia
HOW DOES MAFIA SEEK TO BENEFIT FROM FAKING A DT CHECK ON COAGULATION. If mafia are gonna pull a power play like this it is becuase they are looking to reap a HUGE BENEFIT
you don't bus yourself to kill coagulation of all people, jesus christ
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On April 13 2011 16:56 Coagulation wrote:
I ment scum as in assassin.
DOCH please use your head man. are you really surprised hes pulling this?
he has nothing to gain from this as assassin
i thought about it. if you are assassin and we lynch you and he hits kitaman27 (or whoever he thinks is the next assassin) he's pretty much guaranteed to be killed that same night. if there are 3 assassins this would result in a TIE
the only way this makes sense is if there are two assassins. if protact was assassin he would know that and lynching you is a way to get you killed without letting you take him down as well. That way he can win his game and he is transported out immediately.
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the only scenario in which protact can win as assassin with this gambit is under these conditions:
-There are two assassins
-The two assassins are Coagulation and Protactinium
Both of these things must be true or Protactinium is fucked.
Let's look at other scenarios and how they'd play out:
-There are three assassins
-The three assassins are protactinium/coagulation/kitaman27
-Coagulation is lynched
-Night 2 Protactinium hits Kitaman27, Kitaman27 hits Protactinium
-Nobody wins
-There are four assassins
-The four assassins are protactinium/coagulation/kitaman27/chaoser
-Coagulation is lynched
-Night 2 Protactinium hits Kitaman27, kitaman27 hits protactinium, chaoser hits protactinium
-Chaoser wins
etc. So it's either a Flamewheel win with 2 assassins (if coag is the other assassin) or no one wins, or someone else wins, or there are more than four which seems unlikely.
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On April 13 2011 17:00 urashimakt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 16:56 chaoser wrote:
So all of you are saying this is all a ploy for mafia to buy ONE EXTRA NIGHT. Basically you're saying this comes down to mafia sacrificing a mafia member, FLAMEWHEEL BTW, early in the game to lynch a townie, have him flip town, and then have us lynch flamewheel (who would have been lying and now obviously mafia) all so we waste a lynch? Come on now...That's some bullshit logic and you know. If Flamewheel was actually mafia there'd be no reason to pull this shit since he could have just posted normally and raped us two ways to friday. I doubt lynching Protactinium is even going to be required. Barring medic intervention, he's probably going to get hit by black tonight whether he's red, green, or black. Probably.
If you are an assassin in this game and DON'T use one of your hits on protactinium, then that's pretty fucking dumb I must say.
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On April 13 2011 17:03 Mig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 17:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
he has nothing to gain from this as assassin
i thought about it. if you are assassin and we lynch you and he hits kitaman27 (or whoever he thinks is the next assassin) he's pretty much guaranteed to be killed that same night. if there are 3 assassins this would result in a TIE
the only way this makes sense is if there are two assassins. if protact was assassin he would know that and lynching you is a way to get you killed without letting you take him down as well. That way he can win his game and he is transported out immediately. That plan is all based on him trying to wipe the assassins out in 1 night. But what if instead hes just going to try and get medic protection from us by role claiming dt and hitting a scum? That way he can hope we either lynch or the mafia hits the other assassins while he has protection. And if hes assassin he can use his actual dt check to continue the lie the next night.
what if monkeys fly out of my butt
If he hits a scum and then gets another with his real dt check then what is the problem lol, that's great for us.
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do you really think medics will protect protact if coagulation flips anything but red? of course not. then the assassins will kill him. but if he's right WHO CARES if he's assassin.
He'll continue his "charade" with his assassin check and hey guess what, it totally helps the town. I don't see why you'd be against that...
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On April 13 2011 17:06 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 16:51 Protactinium wrote:On April 13 2011 15:57 Barundar wrote:
Oh dramaz!
First of all we knew protac was going to do something drastic to not get killed tonight. Personally I'm not buying the whole "it was safer for me to claim assassin than DT", claiming assassin is painting a huge target on his back. The reason people jumped on Pandain was because of his plan of a non-town mayor, and because his sole platform was the DT claim. We saw from Protac's campaign that he was quite capable of making a case for himself more than just his role claim.
It seems all too convenient to me that he would
A) Fake claim assassin over DT
B) Find mafia in the first go when he doesn't get elected into office.
C) Roleclaims instead of building a case, on day 2.
I found Coag to be one of the most pro town players, quite unlike the analysis provided by our "DT". That said, I'm looking forward to Coags response. Like I said, claiming DT doesn't work. But I find it interesting how you say that it's "convenient" that I found Mafia in the first go when I didn't get elected to office. I am easily the best player in this game. Yet you seem to think that the Mafia are hiding well. I'm sure you didn't want to let that slip, did you? As to your third part, I roleclaimed while building a case, which is something you've either blatantly ignored or didn't notice. Obviously, you didn't read any of my case on Coagulation, did you? Didn't think so. We have Coag's response now. He's blowing up and getting desperate, so you can honestly just give up. Your defense of him is laughably transparent. Coagulation is nowhere near being pro-town. Why do you think that? Lol now "It's convenient that you find scum in first go when it's the only way you could survive" translates into "scum is hiding well"? Nice try  I like how you keep blowing your own trumpet. I read your case, and your main point is he only defended kavdragon before the lynch was sent in, and that he couldn't point to who he wanted to instead. I didn't specify which lurker I wanted killed myself either, but like coag I got pretty fucking pissed off when I woke up and saw Kavdragon had flipped green. But what it really comes down to is not both of you can be town. One of you is lieing. It's beneficial to trade scum for town 1 for 1, so town wins in any case. Whats up to town to decide is whether we use a lynch on one of you, or just let you die to assassins and lynch coag depending on what you flip.
Actually his main point was that he checked coagulation and got "mafia"
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Let me stress this again one more time.
The only way Protactinium can get a win off this play is if he and Coagulation are the two assassins.
This assumes that:
-Coagulation is an assassin
-There are only two assassins in the game.
I find the second prospect highly unlikely. In the event of 3 assassins, Protactinium is almost guaranteed loss.
I seriously doubt this is a bid for medic protection and honestly I don't care because:
a)In order to get the medic protection he'd have to be correct about Chaoser. This is a huge gamble.
b)This will still give him a real check on night 2 to use again in our favor, particularly if he strikes red with it. This benefits town.
However this play could also make sense under a third condition:
Protactinium and Coagulation are both red. An early bus like this puts Protactinium in a position where he is trusted and he could simply spend the rest of the game saying he never got another red check while busting out misleading analysis.
I find this very unlikely. Detective is imo the trickiest and worst claim for a mafia to make and he really had no reason to be desperate. If he wanted to avoid getting hit by assassins he could have just made a safe claim that's easy to fake like Veteran or Vigilante.
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On April 13 2011 17:14 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 17:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On April 13 2011 16:56 Coagulation wrote:
I ment scum as in assassin.
DOCH please use your head man. are you really surprised hes pulling this? he has nothing to gain from this as assassin i thought about it. if you are assassin and we lynch you and he hits kitaman27 (or whoever he thinks is the next assassin) he's pretty much guaranteed to be killed that same night. if there are 3 assassins this would result in a TIE the only way this makes sense is if there are two assassins. if protact was assassin he would know that and lynching you is a way to get you killed without letting you take him down as well. That way he can win his game and he is transported out immediately. Hes gambling im RED so he can get MED PROTECT HE DIDNT DT CHECK ME I FUCKING KNOW THIS LET THE ASSASSIN DIE NIGHT 2 I would love to be DT checked night 2 and have this cleared up without the town losing a town role in the process. Give me till night 2 to prove i am town. I CAN PROVE IT.
There are easier ways to get the medic protection if he's that desperate for protection. This move doesn't sit right with me.
You can prove it? There are no confirmation roles in this game buddy. The closest thing is vig.
OH WAIT MAFIA CAN FAKE THAT PERFECTLY HUH
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On April 13 2011 17:17 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +a)In order to get the medic protection he'd have to be correct about Chaoser. This is a huge gamble. Wait, what'd he say about me? lol I'm tired from writing a paper, did I miss something?
Sorry, you were on my mind when I was typing. I meant Coagulation.
Errr not in any sort of homoerotic way. In a "I want to re-read your day 1 meta" way because something doesn't sit right with me but I'm not ready to FoS you or anything so I wouldn't worry about it.
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On April 13 2011 17:19 Coagulation wrote:
I CAN PROVE IT WHEN Protactinium FLIPS ASSASSIN
THEN U GUYS CAN DT CHECK ME FOR ALL I FUCKING CARE.
ITS JUST IF U GIVE ME 1 NIGHT
THIS WILL RESOLVE ITSELF. DONT LYNCH A TOWNIE CAUSE AN ASSASSIN IS SPEWING LIES TO STAY ALIVE.
If your plan is to claim vig i'm not impressed
because that won't actually prove shit
and that's the only role that can do anything like "prove" itself unless you're about to make some insane calleresque claim
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On April 13 2011 17:22 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 17:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On April 13 2011 17:19 Coagulation wrote:
I CAN PROVE IT WHEN Protactinium FLIPS ASSASSIN
THEN U GUYS CAN DT CHECK ME FOR ALL I FUCKING CARE.
ITS JUST IF U GIVE ME 1 NIGHT
THIS WILL RESOLVE ITSELF. DONT LYNCH A TOWNIE CAUSE AN ASSASSIN IS SPEWING LIES TO STAY ALIVE.
If your plan is to claim vig i'm not impressed because that won't actually prove shit and that's the only role that can do anything like "prove" itself unless you're about to make some insane calleresque claim I already told you guys im vet. I dont have to do anything. The assassins will fucking kill prot night 2 THAT SHOULD BE PRETTY OBVIOUS HE DIDNT DT CHECK ME AT THAT POINT. AND IT WOULD BE FANTASTIC IF YOU WOULD HOLD ME TO A DT CHECK NIGHT 2 ALSO.
Veteran? as in the one that survives one night kill?
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On April 13 2011 17:26 Coagulation wrote:
I havnt been lying to town all game.
wouldnt it make sense to give me the benefit of the doubt.
LAL
can you clarify
are you claiming veteran
yes or no
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Good now I know you're full of shit.
Because I'm the veteran. And unless this is a no medic tons of veterans set-up, there is almost NEVER more than one veteran.
Veteran is also the EASIEST and SAFEST fake roleclaim for mafia.
bye coagulation
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If anyone thinks I'm full of it right now (because scum is so desperate to get coagulation lynched am i right????)
I used this bait just earlier
On April 13 2011 11:24 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 11:23 bumatlarge wrote:
Whatever makes things difficult for you. That's not a very pro-town attitude. I'm asking if you're claiming veteran or joking. Answer the question.
If bumatlarge claimed veteran I hoped to nail him for it. But he didn't which secured my trust in him quite a bit.
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On April 13 2011 17:30 urashimakt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 17:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Good now I know you're full of shit. Because I'm the veteran. And unless this is a no medic tons of veterans set-up, there is almost NEVER more than one veteran. Veteran is also the EASIEST and SAFEST fake roleclaim for mafia. bye coagulation Well I think we have to lynch Coag now. If he blue/green, DrH and Prot have both put themselves on the chopping block. This is like the best town day ever, no?
There is the remote
possibility
that in this set-up there are no medics and instead there are many veterans.
but really if me and protact and scum why would we go through SO MUCH effort to kill COAGULATION
ITS COAGULATION
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On April 13 2011 17:31 Coagulation wrote:
I dunno what to tell you Doch
Have fun lynching another townie.
It's a collective decision this time. If you were in my position you'd make the same choice, you don't just write off a DT check claim on day 2.
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EPT
