EPTKingmaker - A New Game
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United States5171 Posts
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United States5171 Posts
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The main thing we should do is establish a pro-town atmosphere. I say that the town should decide what the king does. This way if the kingmaker accidentally makes the assassins the king, they will not be able to access the kingmaker's killpower without exposing themselves. To do this, we should all have a lynching system, sort of like Callers game where we declared who we were going to start voting for. Say we want to lynch infun, we should type ##King: Infun and the king will kill the person with the most amounts of votes. Inaddition, we don't just have to vote to kill someone, we can always use the relics. However I don't like the relics. Excalibur is a random lynch, and doesn't help much. The first day's lynch should be used on scummy/inactive people (more on this later). Merlin is unreliable, but he could be used as an abstain vote, which can be pretty useful by itself. But if we decide to use the relics, we should type ##King: Merlin | ||
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A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The other options are to A) Lynch a scummy person. Take a look at Team Micro Mafia II, they found both scums day 1 B) Use Merlin. This would be like an abstain. If there are no inactives and no one is scummy, it's a good idea to use Merlin C) Use Excalibur. This is just random. I feel this is a waste of an action. We should focus on building a good town environment. | ||
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On November 09 2010 11:50 Pandain wrote: Alright, here's some of my thoughts right now. Standards for a King: 1.King should not lynch anyone before 24 hours. Don't be impulsive, don't be stupid. Obviously you should in fact wait until last moment possible(but don't forget :p.) There's nothing worse I can imagine than having a king execute someone at the first second. :/ 2.Calling/executing. Also should not be used,especially right now. I'm thinking we could save this towards late game. For example, if there's 2 town and one scum left, king can easily just execute both of them and win the game. With only 9 people, this isn't too impossible either. Don't be too rash. Follow the majority, at least as a guideline. We should probably decide as a group when to use call/execute. Which reminds me: Ace, does using execute AND Use: Excalibur mean you can get two kills in one day? Firstly, the king should not have any autonomy at all. The town should decide what the king does. Secondly, I don't think you understand what the king does. The king can only kill one person each round. He basically decides the lynch (like the mayor) Thirdly, follow the majority as a rule. This way we can tell if the assassin is the king and just using his role to get an extra KP | ||
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On November 09 2010 11:55 Pandain wrote: I disagree, actually. I totally agree that he should follow the town, but sometimes you have to follow your gut. For the early days I highly agree that he should do what the town says, but just leaving that up to the town increases the possibility for scum to manipulate the whole thing. Now, if a king just does whatever he wants, is that suscipcious? Of course! However, leaving him a bit of room is a good thing imo. Following your gut is an easy way for the Assassin to gain KP. It's easy for an assassin to go against the town and execute a townie because it 'went against his gut'. We would have no read on the king. Think of it this way. Your way: Townie is king and goes against his gut: High chance of killing town Assassin is king: Easy extra KP There is no benefit besides an easier job for the Assassin Your afraid of the scum manipulating the results. This is public, so therefore if they start messing around, we'll be able to tell. However, if the scum is the king and manipulates the results, it's private, we won't be able to tell. Lastly, remember. we only have 2 mislynches until lylo. We cannot let the scum to gain a hold of any of our lynchs | ||
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On November 09 2010 12:00 Pandain wrote: What do you mean, if the king manipulates the results? From what I understand, he does every single one of his actions in thread. Lets say the town's votes to kill Infun. But suddenly the king decides to kill deconduo instead. The king claims that he had a 'gut feeling', or some other reasoning. This would be indistinguishable from a assassin kill. I understand maybe deconduo could be a mafia. However, the fact that if we allow any lax in this rule means that it's a free hit for the scum. Allowing scum to get a free kill is far worse than a small chance of maybe hitting a scum | ||
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Remember, a rouge king is a loss of a lynch. | ||
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On November 09 2010 12:09 orgolove wrote: Another thing to note is the setup. As Ace did not reveal the number of each roles, we have to figure it out ourselves. Compared to the standard setups, there's 2 disadvantages to the town: 1. a red could randomly be chosen as the mayor, leading to an auto -1 town. Actually, eventually one of the reds WILL be chosen as a mayor since the kingmaker is forced to switch his choice every day to a different player. That's why you look to my idea about the king following the town's decision. That way even if an assassin is chosen as king, nothing will happen. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=167304¤tpage=2#27 2. there is no reliable detective. This is huge. The biggest problem with no detective is that there is no easy way to check the alignment of inactives. This is why on the first day we should lynch an inactive. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=167304¤tpage=2#30 | ||
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On November 09 2010 12:22 orgolove wrote: I do agree with the king following the majority. There's absolutely no reason we should not do that. It really brings to question why DrH, who's usually a good player, is against this. Really brings a FoS on him. That's not gonna work. -_- You have to remember that an assassin king is an automatic 2KP that can be bought at the cost of 1 life. In the case where there's 5 players left (end of night 2), an Assassin king can just kill a town immediately, then kill the next town at night, gaining an automatic win. Above all else it is extremely important for the kingmaker to not choose a red king. Ah yes of course, the lylo situation. There's not much that can be done anyways. However do you agree that this would work outside of lylo? It defiantly would help day1 and day2 Also, all townies. Make sure you read this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147475 | ||
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On November 09 2010 12:32 BrownBear wrote: Sup, Pandain. So for right now, we are just waiting for someone to be all "yo sup, I'm the king for today"? We are discussing day 1 kill, and also the plan for what the king should do. | ||
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On November 09 2010 12:36 BrownBear wrote: Well, I'm looking at the "lynch an inactive" plan, and I don't really think it's that smart, given that we especially don't want to get anywhere near LYLO. I think we really should be trying to drop an Assassin right now: it's totally doable this stage in the game, and if we fall into the "hurr durr lets just lynch inactive" trap TL town usually falls into, it's going to bite us in the ass. Inactives are very bad for the town. In practically every game, an inactive is either a) Mafia, or b) a townie that just gets lynched. If we're going to use a lynch, it should be day 1. Although I'm all for going after an Assassin, we should first establish that being inactive is not okay. | ||
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Just a thought. Remember, the hero can claim if needed. This is crucial as the hero could be a good counter to an assassin king, and could make sure a townie king does not hit him. (The actual situation is going to be a bit more complex, but we should talk about that when it actually happens) | ||
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On November 09 2010 12:43 BrownBear wrote: Well, obviously, but I'm too used to seeing a bunch of people vote on an inactive, go AFK for the rest of the cycle, and then the poor guy dies, even if he shows up. I'm just saying, king should be using his judgement here. If town wants to kill a dude "for being inactive" but the dude has posted, should king go ahead and kill the dude? Not unless the king thinks he's actually an assassin, or the king himself is an assassin. Part of the awesome part of having a King is that the king reveals a lot about HIS role by how he acts. If we force him to be our puppet, that doesn't tell us much at all. Giving the kings a bit more leeway might actually make an Assassin-King work in our favor - we thrust him into the spotlight, make him more likely to screw up, and thus stand a better chance of catching him. I'm in favor of ADVISING the king, but not forcing him to follow our orders. Gives us more to work with. Also, whoever is the king should be held to a VERY HIGH standard of activity, for the same reason: we know they're king, but we want to know as much more about them as we can. Remember though, we can easily switch to the Merlin (abstain), so if the inactive shows up and everyone is contributing, we can easily not lynch anyone. The problem is that in your situation, that mostly happens if the town HAS TO kill someone. It would be great if we had 5 days of lynches to be able to check out how a king acts, and make sure that the king isn't an assassin. However, remember, we only will have three lynches. First day it's going to be hard to see what the king does. Second day, what if the king goes against the grain and kills someone? It should be easy to pick out a random townie. Third day, we're unlucky and king is an assassin. GG. As for holding to him to a high level activity. I agree with that, but in order to pull that off, we need to make sure he claims at the start of the day. I see no reason why the king should not claim | ||
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On November 09 2010 12:47 BrownBear wrote: I think he wants you to start doing more than just pressure lynching - propose ideas, debate strategy, that kind of thing. Basically, do what others are doing. ^This Pandain. Could you address the issue of forcing a 'puppet king', and day 1 inactive lynch? Thanks | ||
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On November 09 2010 12:52 BrownBear wrote: Hmm... more ideas. So the Kingmaker knows who he chose as King. Obviously, we all want the king to claim in thread. Thus, stands to reason that a king who doesn't claim until he executes is basically scum. I'm trying to think if there's any merit to the Kingmaker claiming and posting who he chose as king in order to force the king out... obviously though, an Assassin King can delay with Excalibur/Merlin. Actually, question - does a king using Merlin/Excalibur mean he remains king next cycle, or is a new king chosen? If the kingmaker reveals himself, he just gets killed by the mafia. And anyways, we should just expect the king to claim in thread. New king is chosen always btw | ||
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Firstly, we need a united town. We need some sort of policy regarding the kings. If we're going to decide to let the king lynch people independently, we cannot make the argument later that 'you should have followed majority'. At the same time, if we force the king to follow majority, the must hold him accountable On November 09 2010 16:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I agree. The king should not roleclaim. This way the mafia can not manipulate the king directly and he can participate in the town discussion without being pushed in a direction intentionally. And we fear this because the assassins have sercretz mind control abilities </sarcasm> You are saying that 1) The king is smart enough to make his own decisions. and 2) The king is too easily influenced. Please clarify | ||
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On November 09 2010 13:30 Coagulation wrote: so whos king? oh and bite me pandain. On November 09 2010 16:34 Coagulation wrote: the only ones that really "need to find out what the king is thinking" are the assassins. Coagulation, could you please be a bit more active and join the discussion? Thanks Anyways, we should now move discuss whether or not we should use Merlin I am against using Merlin, as it is a waste of a lynch. Remember, lylo is not delayed when we use Merlin. | ||
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