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On February 15 2010 13:07 Bill Murray wrote:
Ace at first seemed to be acting like he did in a game I read before I played my first mafia game... a game where Chezinu was detective. I've looked for the game, but I can't seem to find the correct one. Chezinu basically comes out and yells "WHOO IM THE BEST DIE MAFIA" and ace facepalms just like this (not literally). But, still, I would really like to find that game. It might just be how he acts, though, which is the reason i'm not certain that DoctorH is red just yet, and don't push for his lynching even regarding past discrepancies (flaming him in pms/my stupid comment that forced edit in the previous game that ruined the game[thanks for the second chance, btw.]/the fact that we aren't really on friendly terms because of my meanness.), but with 39.7777%(rofl my math rulez)of the game mafia, how can u really be sure?
Ace, would you agree to dying if DoctorH flips green?
Sure. Why not? Also I act like I'm above the law and don't really care in most Mafia games. In the past ~4 games I've tried to just chill, sit back and let others do the work but then people become sheepish so I have to step in. This game I was called out before I even posted and I'm accused of being Mafia because I'm defending myself. Seriously this is getting pretty sad.
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Redtooth remember most of these guys aren't used to games with so much information flowing around. They'll learn the hard way.
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and killing myself or Redtooth gives you what information? Please break this down because so far not a single one of you has told us WHAT information we'll be getting. This is why I keep saying you're being illogical in your "arguments".
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On February 15 2010 15:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Information:
If flip red we can analyze:
Vocal Supporters
Who voted for you for mayor, particularly while giving little reason
Vocal accusers (L, Myself, laaan) are very likely not in the same mafia family as you
People trying to distract attention from accusations toward you without offering a real argument
A relatively large amount of posts to analyze from the perspective of a mafia from a specific family
If you flip green, it's fair to analyze:
Vocal accusers seem more suspicious
Voters for the most vocal accusers
People who suddenly bandwagon against you late in the thread/without reason
If I flip red you can't analyze my vocal supporters. There aren't any. No one has supported me so far, only people who have said you guys may be wrong. That isn't support.
It doesn't matter if you're not in the same family - you'd still be suspect.
Who has tried to distract attention from this argument? List them please.
For the very last time, you can't analyze my posts. In fact before you even try and get me killed it might be a wise idea and analyze them now to see what you can find. And by analyze I don't mean "hey guys, look what Ace said" but more akin to what links if any you can see to other people. I ask this sincerely because before you try and kill me on the basis I'm Mafia you should do this BEFORE offing me to make sure you have some clue of what you are doing. Needless to say I think you're so off tangent so this will hopefully show you why you're wrong.
Now if you lynch me when I'm innocent you don't even get any more information based on my last paragraph. You have nothing to link me on. Nothing. you'd start the next day with the SAME information as the last. If you can prove me wrong, do it now by examining my posts and see what you can find that is going to be so mind blowing to the town it gets us a path to the Mafia.
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On February 15 2010 15:07 Iaaan wrote:
In addition to DoctorH's post:
I wrote about this in my first long post, I see connections between you, Redtooth, and possibly other people like decefchicken and abenson. and if your red, we can connect you to one of the clues, and thus rule out other people who also fit the same clue. If your green, then it still leaves suspicion on the people who fit the clue.
And I'm going to bed now, no more posts from me for like 12 hours.
so...because decaf and Abenson voted for me if I flip red that makes them suspicious? How about when I flip green? You don't get any further information about either of them. Hence, you're still on the wrong track.
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[QUOTE]On February 15 2010 15:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
[QUOTE]On February 15 2010 15:16 Ace wrote:
[QUOTE]On February 15 2010 15:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Information:
If flip red we can analyze:
Vocal Supporters
Who voted for you for mayor, particularly while giving little reason
Vocal accusers (L, Myself, laaan) are very likely not in the same mafia family as you
People trying to distract attention from accusations toward you without offering a real argument
A relatively large amount of posts to analyze from the perspective of a mafia from a specific family
If you flip green, it's fair to analyze:
Vocal accusers seem more suspicious
Voters for the most vocal accusers
People who suddenly bandwagon against you late in the thread/without reason[/QUOTE]
If I flip red you can't analyze my vocal supporters. There aren't any. No one has supported me so far, only people who have said you guys may be wrong. That isn't support.
It doesn't matter if you're not in the same family - you'd still be suspect.
Who has tried to distract attention from this argument? List them please.
For the very last time, you can't analyze my posts. In fact before you even try and get me killed it might be a wise idea and analyze them now to see what you can find. And by analyze I don't mean "hey guys, look what Ace said" but more akin to what links if any you can see to other people. I ask this sincerely because before you try and kill me on the basis I'm Mafia you should do this BEFORE offing me to make sure you have some clue of what you are doing. Needless to say I think you're so off tangent so this will hopefully show you why you're wrong.
Now if you lynch me when I'm innocent you don't even get any more information based on my last paragraph. You have nothing to link me on. Nothing. you'd start the next day with the SAME information as the last. If you can prove me wrong, do it now by examining my posts and see what you can find that is going to be so mind blowing to the town it gets us a path to the Mafia. [/QUOTE]
[quote]You said yourself if you flip green, that myself/L/laaan are likely mafia. Saying there is no information to be gleaned from your death either way is silly.[/quote]
Look at my paragraph before the last then re-read what I was addressing. It makes perfect sense.
[quote]
I wouldn't call ver a vocal supporter of you, but like redtooth said. If you are mafia, your allies will likely not vehemently defend you but perhaps try to discourage the use of clue analysis. Ver made a post a while back saying that "anyone discouraging clue usage is probably innocent" and it seems to me (please correct me if I'm wrong) that you tried to discourage redtooth from making anti-ver posts with your PM to him.
redtooth just now has added a fair amount to the case for you being scum. You're saying my suspicion isn't based on any analysis, but I've stated many times it has to do with your dodging L's questions, being unwilling to provide alternative solutions, and the biggest basis of your argument being "fuck you I'm ace i dont need to defend myself cuz im ace"[/QUOTE]
Ver, myself, MBH, and other have discouraged the use of clue analysis early on in past games. We are KNOWN to do this. This is why I said you pointing this out doesn't help your case. It's really not a big deal. You're trying to out think people when there isn't even a situation present.
And yes you're wrong. You should ask redtooth for the PM if you want clarity. I didn't try to influence redtooth in any way. If I wanted to do that I probably would have kept PMing him. He already showed me he was slightly distrustful of me when he cut the conversation short.
For the record I don't even agree with Ver that anyone discouraging clue usage is possibly innocent because that's too wide of a blanket statement.
How does redtooth's post push me further to scum? PLEASE explain this. Honestly you're really talking lots of bull right now. I address arguments that warrant attention. I'm not here to constantly repeat myself. All the answers are in the posts. If you need help reading, ask for it. Like really you're so wrong and I hate to say it's because you're a newb but it's getting very close to that point. THINK before you post. Seriously.
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On February 15 2010 15:31 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 12:15 Bill Murray wrote:
the only problem with your analysis, though, my friend... is that you're already thinking from the perspective of an opposing mafia. Why?
WHY ZATO? Game theory. When you have dynamic decision-making, in which the outcome of my decisions depends upon the decisions you take, the correct way to approach the problem is to determine your optimal course of action first, and once I know what you're going to do and therefore the payoff of each of my own choices, only then do I start looking at what is the optimal course of action for myself. Sorry for the completely off-topic post, but I actually love game theory. Prisoner's dilemma and all that shiz- the very same reasoning that brought me to the conclusion, many pages ago, that mafia will mostly be lurking, so we should focus less on the really active players and more on those who are making shitty, short and content-free posts, and also on those who aren't posting at all.
As someone who's taking courses in AI and a large part of it was Game Theory, I'd disagree that Mafia would be lurking because somebody has to win this election.
BUT - I do agree that we should be looking at the crap-content posters.
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On February 15 2010 15:36 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does it push you further to scum? lol
Because he provided reasons why he became distrustful of you and since he knows your posting style better than I do, I give a bit of credence to analysis. Why wouldn't additional reasons you may be mafia make me distrust you more?
But it's not EVIDENCE, it's conjecture. That's like me saying I don't trust Bill Murray - he's obviously more scummy than before!
See how this is nonsense? Didn't I tell you to THINK before posting?
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Bill Murray, the guy that's spamming the thread is a safer option than Chezinu? time to put you on the short bus.
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Can you explain how clues link me to both Mafia families?
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On February 16 2010 00:59 citi.zen wrote:
Ace - I already did - see my post on page 45.
I am not going to explain my post person by person. Read my post and make up your own minds. Think critically, at this point nobody can "demonstrate" anything beyond doubt.
Which is exactly why I asked the question. If you say the clues link me to both Mafia families it seems like you're trying to force the clues onto me rather than the other way around. How is it even possible that with so many players being Mafia this game that this can even happen?
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On February 16 2010 01:11 meeple wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 01:06 Ace wrote:On February 16 2010 00:59 citi.zen wrote:
Ace - I already did - see my post on page 45.
I am not going to explain my post person by person. Read my post and make up your own minds. Think critically, at this point nobody can "demonstrate" anything beyond doubt. Which is exactly why I asked the question. If you say the clues link me to both Mafia families it seems like you're trying to force the clues onto me rather than the other way around. How is it even possible that with so many players being Mafia this game that this can even happen? I think he meant it more in the way that there are more than one clue connected to you, so even if we're misinterpreting one of them, it gives a greater chance that one of the two clues refers to you. Correct me if I'm wrong though
Ok I get that. But my point I made from way back is that clues are subjective. So we don't know if they are right or not.
So with that in mind no one finds it strange that there seem to be so many coincidental clues being attached to me by multiple players on Day 1?
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On February 16 2010 01:18 citi.zen wrote:The clues are confusing and not sure things, absolutely. With that caveat in mind, here are the connections to you Ace: Show nested quote +Dreamflower was blinded from the moonlight that reflected off the horseman, and was a little slow to react. - look at your profile pic. Show nested quote +Kennigit emerged from behind the wine barrel, thinking that an angel had saved the town. Unfortunately, Kennigit did not find favor from the now radiant creature, and exploded into a shower of blue light. - Your profile quote: "If darkness is bad, why does it hide you? If light is good, why does it blind you?" Obviously they cant both be right at the same time, but the connection is there in both cases. You sure respond very promptly every time someone points a finger at you. If you were equally proactive in other areas of the game I would think it much more likely you are the new Hobbes. Right now however you remain high on my shortlist.
I don't know citizen, I'd figure trying to defend myself would be the wise choice instead of letting people off me with no resistance.
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Instead of criticizing people for making useless posts how about you make keep the ball rolling Caller?
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Well Caller, it's kind of hard for me to really do much so far since from Day 1 about 4 people have called for my head. I'd think spending my times vehemently proclaiming my innocence was a better use of my time. I'm not trolling at all, show me when I did? 
Besides, MTF and Camlito haven't played in over a year.
I highly doubt there's a town circle already unless people are doing the blind faith thing again.
Also I don't agree that DTs should roleclaim early. If I were Mafia I'd kill them asap. Even if my win condition is to murder the other family why would I want them to have help? DTs are a double edged sword in that regard.
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@Caller: How Am I lying? Explain please.
@Dr.H: There wasn't a big backlash of people against my clue connection. Please, this is like the 5th time you've over exaggerated a situation.
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Really Iaaan? So if that was the case why wouldn't you have thought I was innocent since only 1 person (redtooth) even gave an attempt to defend me?
You have a very funny set of standards there sir. L even said he PM'd Empyrean.
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Maybe you should stop taking jabs at the vets, be quiet and stop complaining?
Like it or not or whether you believe it or not most of us are better than you, and do have more experience than you. So keep it moving or take your whining somewhere else.
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On February 16 2010 08:21 L wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 08:19 redtooth wrote:
god damn it i said don't worry about chezinu L. I'm not worried about him. I'm worried about YOU.
and I'm worried about YOU.
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EPT
