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Katowice25012 Posts
Well look at this, Leoric, who I guess is The Skeleton King, is now out.
Trait
Undying- Become a ghost when you die, regenerating Health over time, and resurrecting upon reaching full Health. Your Abilities don’t deal damage while in ghost form, but can still heal.
Basic Abilities
Skeletal Swing (Q)- Swing your mace in front of you, dealing damage and slowing enemies by 40% for 2.5 seconds. Deals double damage to all non-Heroic sources.
Drain Hope (W)- Grab an enemy Hero’s soul for up to 4 seconds, dealing up to 25% of their maximum Health as damage and healing you for up to 25% of your maximum Health, so long as you remain within range of the target. You are slowed by 20% while Drain Hope is active.
Wraith Walk (E)- Separate from your body, becoming Unstoppable and gaining Movement Speed, accelerating up to 50% over 2.5 seconds. Your body jumps to your wraith when Wraith Walk ends or is canceled.
Heroic Abilities
Entomb (R)- Create an unpathable tomb in front of you for 4 seconds.
March of the Black King (R)- Become Unstoppable and swing your mace three times, dealing damage and healing you for 7% of your maximum Health for each enemy Hero hit.
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Guide coming within the next few days!
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Mexico2170 Posts
Initial impression
Leoric is definitely strong, but it also has clear weakneses.
He doesnt have any ability to initate, his Q has a big area but not that big range. His W slows him and his E don't let him move, so his mobility isnt good. His E is his way to initiate but it isn't particuarly good imo, its ok. The Die and resurrect there is kinda...cool on some ways but can back fire. For example, if you die away from your base, the enemy team can just follow you, and since you can't mount while dead, they can kill you again.
I'd describe him as pretty strong but not OP, but we'll have to wait and see how he develops.
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Yo that trailer is fucking sexy. Unfortunately I'm away for 2 weeks and can't try him x.x
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I love how he goes at the end of the video: "I will only choose allies I know will not betray me"
and illidan turns his head towards him (illidans title granted by the night elves is "illidan the betrayer")
edit: now that I think about it im not entirely sure who gave him that titlle but whatever.
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I liked the butcher trailer so much more.
But the cute humor was nice
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Hmm, this hero seems familiar somehow... Especially the trait rings a bell...
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First impressions playing against him, he seems alright, not overpowered, but able to contribute more than some other tanks. His kit seems like a weird combination of Murky/Uther with the Sylvanas escape, nothing amazingly original there.
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On July 22 2015 09:37 Roblin wrote:
I love how he goes at the end of the video: "I will only choose allies I know will not betray me"
and illidan turns his head towards him (illidans title granted by the night elves is "illidan the betrayer")
edit: now that I think about it im not entirely sure who gave him that titlle but whatever.
Funny thing is that he always just wanted to protect his world. By destroying a whole continent ... but minor details !
But its all 4 heroes at his side did betray someone. I think Anub would have been a better fit then Zagara though. She just wanted to take over when Kerrigan was gone. But maybe its a spoiler for LotV ?
Wouldn't call the Ghost Walk an escape, as your body stands on one spot and takes full damage. But it does give some form of unstoppable.
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I wasn't expecting it would be a thing.
But i just played a quick match soloQ with Leoric vs Leoric. Both top hero damage AND doubling everyone's deaths -_-
We won, the other Leoric died 11 times lol
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God at 20 he becomes an anti tank tank. Johanna beware I guess, or well any warrior without an escape lol. I have the urge to play Diablo and meet a Leoric that doesn't cancel his Entomb.
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On July 22 2015 11:25 FeyFey wrote:
Wouldn't call the Ghost Walk an escape, as your body stands on one spot and takes full damage. But it does give some form of unstoppable.
I have been trying the 25% reduced dmg while wraith walking at lvl 4 which seems to help with escaping.
So far the build I have been happiest with is:
1) Reanimation- regen when picking up health orbs whether dead or alive or Block if there are dangerous auto attackers or it's a map with limited chances to collect lots of orbs.
4) Hardened Bones- 25% less dmg while Wraith Walking
7) Ghastly Reach- +25% range on Skeletal Swing
10) March of the Black King
13) Drain Momentum- Drain Hope no longer causes you to slow down
16) Renewed Swing- Skeletal Swing can be cast again for free within 3 seconds for 50% dmg
20) Spectral Leech- Basic attacks do 5% of a heroes max life and heal for the same amount
But I haven't played that many games so some will probably change. The range plus double swing makes for great wave clears and aoe slows. I watched a few streams and most of them were taking Ossein Renewal at 7 for the 20% heal, but since it happens over 6 seconds it just seems too slow to be that great as a reliable combat heal.
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Leoric seems to deal too much damage, I saw a few streams and he was consistently near the top for hero damage. Also his Q is even better than Johanna with Knight Takes Pawn :S
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On July 22 2015 17:26 Big G wrote:
Leoric seems to deal too much damage, I saw a few streams and he was consistently near the top for hero damage. Also his Q is even better than Johanna with Knight Takes Pawn :S
He should do more than Johanna tbh, since he's way less tanky than she is
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On July 22 2015 17:29 Larkin wrote:
He should do more than Johanna tbh, since he's way less tanky than she is
He's way less tanky because he can respawn in 20 seconds at lvl20.
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I went Aba for a few matches just to "ultimate evo" the Leoric's there :p it seems fun but the limited timer (albeit for a few times) obviously does not allow me to get a good feeling of how he will play out.
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On July 22 2015 08:45 [Phantom] wrote:
Initial impression
Leoric is definitely strong, but it also has clear weakneses.
He doesnt have any ability to initate, his Q has a big area but not that big range. His W slows him and his E don't let him move, so his mobility isnt good. His E is his way to initiate but it isn't particuarly good imo, its ok. The Die and resurrect there is kinda...cool on some ways but can back fire. For example, if you die away from your base, the enemy team can just follow you, and since you can't mount while dead, they can kill you again.
I'd describe him as pretty strong but not OP, but we'll have to wait and see how he develops.
I think he's got a so-so kit, but so far it looks like he gets a lot out of his talents, so it will be interesting to see how he ends up getting built.
I wouldn't use his E to initiate that's just asking for trouble. His W appears to not be a channeled effect meaning even if you stun him it continues to cast. Which makes it a little better at driving squishier out of a fight.
Last and most importantly - he can still hearth while dead, so Leoric shouldn't be rezzing to instantly die again (*cough* Uther *cough*).
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Played against him twice as nazeebo last night. When he ghosts into you it's super easy to zombie wall/ kill him.
Also, both leorics I played against just fed kills to us all game long-- I think they both had like 3x as many deaths as their teammates.
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Like most new heroes he seems pretty strong.
The Q ability is a fairly nice slow and decent waveclear, especially towards the end where it just 1 shots a wave basically. With renewed swing later he decent solo's camps even although that is less of a useful thing that late. The W is alright but the leash range isn't too long and he is fairly slow, coupled with the fact it does damage based of max % hp makes him a bit of an anti-tank hero. Johanna, Arthas etc. are good targets for it. Heroes like muradin are fine too but can escape it if they want but that's a win of itself in a fight. For killing mobile squishies it's not all too exciting. His E is a pretty good initiator but a mediocre disengage.
His trait feels stupidly strong early on but becomes weak lategame I think. Early on the low deathtimer on it let's you be back in lane almost instantly, to the point that I wonder if he is almost worth it in a sort of Murky style at that point just choosing to play risky and die instead of going back to base. I believe XP for a kill is still granted if you die without enemies near but even then I feel you're better off walking him into towers than hearthing when you want to be back asap for an objective for example. Especially on maps that snowball with crucial objective fights early like haunted mines he feels very strong because of that. Lategame the timer is so long that even with some reductions here and there in talents it doesn't matter all too much. When you die in a teamfight you won't be back in time usually for that same teamfight and if you lose said teamfight being back a bit earlier often doesn't do all that much. Well at least he can clear waves on his own quite well at that point so he has something to do but he won't slow down the enemy team pushing a fort/keep much if at all.
As for his Talents so far, some thoughts:
(in general it seems by the way that any talent unless specifically stated does not alter anything while undying but haven't thoroughly tested all yet.)
Level 1
- Mana thirst Skeletal Swing restores 10 Mana per enemy hit, up to 50 Mana This kind of talent has usually been pretty bad because it forces you to spam spells on minions which you shouldn't be spamming on them in the first place like Johanna's roar but skeletal swing is good waveclear actually and his spammable spell which makes the spell free vs minons. That makes this potentially interesting but leoric doesn't seem to have much mana problems to begin with. You probably don't use his E too much and his W is also fairly restrictive that is only useful in actual engagements so I found this talent leaving you with more mana then you can actually use. You can get more creative though and for example use his E liberally to just move around if you take Royal focus at 4 and that may be quite interesting actually but I don't think it's worth it. Does less you create net 50 mana with renewed swing later which is nice.
- Block the usual but seems a little lackluster on him given the rest except against stuff like zeratul and nova.
- Hopelessness Increases the range of Drain Hope by 20% This is pretty sweet, the range for locking on is big enough without this it seems but this talent also increases the leash range (which seems to be same or slightly bigger than the targeting rang) which let's him lock on much easier. Typically you should have an easy tank target where you can just stick to in fights without this talent I feel.
- Reanimation Every Regeneration Globe gathered increases your Health Regeneration by 1.5 per second, even during Undying. You also gain the ability to gather Regeneration Globes while Undying.This seems fairly good. It's basically regen master that helps you shave a off your death timer. Given that he is a tank it's hard to get more than 1% hp/sec with this especially as he doesn't have amplified healing like most other tanks that take this. So I think it works that you need to restore your full hp with him as he dies which without any other abilities or talents used takes as long as the normal death timer. So later on if he dies and normally takes 50 secs, thus 2%hp per sec this can improve that rate to 3% hp per sec for example and make that ~33 secs instead. Not sure if this is right and it's a bit hard to test, will have to check more because I think how much you shave off will determine if I like this or not. Because regen master by itself on leoric doesn't seem very exciting.
Level 4
- Hardened Bones During Wraith Walk, you take 25% less damage. This makes your E a slightly better disengage which is fairly useful but it's not a very good amount. It's worth mentioning though that with E making you unstoppable too it also becomes interesting with this talent to just use it as a bad version of ice block to avoid stuns and some damage by some spells but for that 25% is quite lackluster.
- Royal Focus If your body takes no damage during Wraith Walk's duration, the cooldown is reduced to 4 seconds. This turns your E into a much better engage because it will be up to disengage quite quickly if needed. For that reason I like it most at this tier because your E is best at engaging and this makes it even better at that. In combat you typically get hit by some random damage too much for this to proc but just for chasing or getting into combat this is sweet and since i don't like the rest on this tier much I think this will be the pick
- Willing Vessel Increases the healing from Drain Hope to 30% of your maximum Health. Only increasing the heal on your W from 25% to 30%, that's a really marginal increase.
- Fealty Unto Death When a nearby Minion dies, you gain 1% of your maximum Health and 5 Mana, even while Undying. Provides him with some self sustain in lane which is useful as he has no reliable self sustain himself. However the numbers on this are really low, it's pretty terrible compared to Nazeebo's trait or Victuals on the butcher. Additionally it does help reviving a bit faster but not by much and it's not even that likely after death that you are around minions that are dying. Don't like this.
Level 7
- Ossein Renewal Activate to heal 20% of your maximum life over 6 seconds. Can be used while Undying to revive faster. 20% hp over 6 secs makes this a terrible version of Jojo's Laws of Hope. The clause that it can be used while undying is pretty weak too because the cooldown doesn't reset, so often you'll use this in the fight where you're dying and the clause becomes useless. Only use I really see for it is when you're caught out of position somehow and you know you'll be dying that you don't activate this until after you died to get back quicker. Generally I don't like talents that do stuff when it went bad for you like tyrael's on death talents especially when they are this weak.
- Paralyzing Rage Increases the Movement Speed slow of Skeletal Swing to 60%. From 40% to 60% is quite noticeable but the range increase as applying slow and damage to more targets seems good too.Although if you need to peel an illidan or something this shoots up in value and it does set up his March ult nicely.
- Ghastly Reach Increases the range of Skeletal Swing by 25%. You don't need it to hit full minion waves but being able to hit more targets in fights or easier on the run is very useful. Pretty close call with Paralyzing rage for me.
- Lingering Apparition Increases the duration of Wraith Walk by 60%. For engaging the original duration is quite long enough and for disengaging you don't want to wait the full duration typically anyway as you're vulnerable. So this is most useful for chasing far or even moving about the map faster but I vastly prefer the skeletal swing upgrades.
Level 10
- Entomb Create an unpathable tomb in front of you for 4 seconds. cd 50 secs. A pretty decent spell to lock someone as unlike Lamb to the slaugher this can't just be cleansed. Depends quite a bit on the heroes you're facing though if this does much, some like Johanna just can't get out but you might not want to catch. But heroes like Kael are just screwed by this until they get bolt. Heck when lvl 20 hits most heroes have escapes that can evade this but there are still you can catch nicely. Does create the problem of sometimes zoning a hero out from your own melee, especially frustating for a fellow zeratul that wants to finish Kael off.
- March of the Black King Become Unstoppable and swing your mace three times, healing yourself for 7.03% of your maximum Health for each enemy Hero hit and dealing 400 (210 + 10 per level) damage. This I found really lackluster so far. The damage isn't all that much and it's quite hard to hit. Really needs some sort of setup, haven't gotten to test this exactly yet with void prison for example. If you do this into the void prison while there are 3 targets there will it immediately continue as the VP ends and hit them? I guess so and could be good then but by itself without other setup it seemed a whole lot of trouble to hit without even that much payoff. Perhaps paralyzing rage helps this to hit easier. The thing is you have to choose this sometimes I feel when Entomb isn't well positioned.
Level 13
- Burning Rage It's alright but Leoric doesn't stick as well onto others like muradin or johanna because he doesn't have the sustain so not a huge fan here. Also this late skeletal swing tends to clear waves practically by itself already especially if you take renewed swing so I don't really like this on him.
- Spell Shield I like this quite a bit on Leoric, he get's in from far with his E and then is suddenly in your face, the natural reaction for many is to bomb him with spells which is exactly where this shines. Especially as he isn't that incredibly tanky for a tank this is nice.
- Crushing Hope If Drain Hope lasts its full duration, it deals bonus damage equal to 10% of the victim's Maximum Health. This damage does not heal you. This seems ok but not so special, 10% extra is alright especially as you want to hit tanks anyway with W but having to last full duration is a big if. The target might be out of range or dead already especially if they know you have this it seems too easy to avoid.
- Drain Momentum Drain Hope no longer causes you to lose Movement Speed. This is fairly nice, one of the problems of drain momentum is people getting out of range too easily and this counteracts that. Also let's you chase just much better, whereas otherwise W kills his own chase too much.
Level 16
- Imposing Presence Enemies that attack you have their Attack Speed slowed by 50%. as always situationally very interesting and a bit more so than leoric than on say Johanna because Leoric is actually a bit squishier so tends to get targeted more. Imposing presence is just at it's best on those targets you don't really want to ignore (like Jojo and muradin). I just don't think it competes with Renewed swing often.
- Consume Vitality Skeletal Swing heals you for 2% of your maximum Health per target hit, up to 10%. Effective while Undying. The heal on this is very lackluster as even with bigger range you're not getting more than 6-8% per swing really. And like other talents, those that shine most when you're dead are not the ones that you want imo, you want those that let you win the fight in the first place as getting back a bit earlier won't help all that much if your team got wiped in a teamfight. Heck it doesn't even do all too much then as you probably get of a couple swings against 1 target when you're dead (note that range upgrade doesn't apply to undying swing).
- Renewed Swing Skeletal Swing can be recast again for free within 3 seconds for 50% damage. 50% increase on your core damage spell, is there a hero where this sort of talent at lvl 16 is not the most popular? Especially as skeletal swing is part damage and part slow this is just too sweet as you do get the entire slow effect again which normally lasts 2.5 sec so you can chain this nicely to keep targets slowed for a long time.
- Unyielding Despair Every second Drain Hope is active, its cooldown is reduced by 1 second. So without interaction with the lvl 20 upgrade to March of the black king this can at best reduce a cooldown from 12 to 8 seconds.. And conditionally so.. That is just terrible
Level 20
- Unyielding Despair Every second Drain Hope is active, its cooldown is reduced by 1 second. The damage on this is a little lackluster especially as you this ultimate is best for focussing a target down as team and not getting some DoT spell added to it. That DoT is best for some sort of 1v1 scenario but another talent on this level is better at that..
- Death March Your final swing of March of the Black King also applies the base version of Drain Hope to all enemy Heroes in a large area. Only happening after the last swing is a letdown here as enemies can and often will be quite far gone by then. I think from some testing the area is equal to your cast range on W though so if you have the increased range there this could be interesting as applying say 3-4 drain essences does great damage while making you damn hard to kill. There might be something there especially if you can somehow garantee the fight stays a bit clumped up by taking paralyzing rage and having teammates with slowing effects.
- Hardened Shield Always solid on tanks, makes you suddenly near unkillable especially if you have a bit of healing going on.
- Spectral Leech Basic Attacks against enemy Heroes deal bonus damage equal to 5% of the Hero's maximum Health and heal you for the same amount. This seems quite good. Sure Leoric has a very slow attack being more than twice as slow as illidan/valla but this also does more than triple the damage of giant killer. So comparing this to giant killer on a fast attacking hero it increases your damage by slightly more and lifesteals for that same amount. Quite nice if you're whacking at muradin.
Overall interesting hero, I think he will show to be a bit broken on maps that snowball where he can abuse the trait early on. Haunted mines specifically as he is such a huge asset in doing well in those first 2 mines.
The most popular build I think will be:
Reanimation-Royal Focus-Paralyzing rage-March of the Black King-Spell Shield-Renewed Swing-Spectral leech
but I think he has quite some variation possible.
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Kinda have the feeling Leoric will go the way of Johanna on release, and will end up in the same place as Arthas.
I don't mind, Dwarf > Skeleton. Though Entombed is a good Ult.
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Anyone finding he's really strong on Curse/Eternity? I'm expecting his trait to really shine given those objectives.
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On July 23 2015 03:49 Roe wrote:
Anyone finding he's really strong on Curse/Eternity? I'm expecting his trait to really shine given those objectives.
Well he is looking great on CH, BoE, HM, DS and ST, where his trait isn't doing anything special on Tomb, BHB and GoT.
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Mexico2170 Posts
I think he's great on DS and GoT simply because not only does his Q deals extra damage to the Garden terror and Dragon Knight, but also thanks to his W, which drains 25% of their life in 4 seconds, that's massive when you're defending.
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On July 23 2015 05:16 [Phantom] wrote:
I think he's great on DS and GoT simply because not only does his Q deals extra damage to the Garden terror and Dragon Knight, but also thanks to his W, which drains 25% of their life in 4 seconds, that's massive when you're defending.
Yeah that seems like such a silly thing that needs hotfixing. Which spells can and which can't target Garden terror and dragon is already a bit vague and this definately feels like one that shouldn't.
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He's a lot of fun. I definitely recommend buying him. Getting his master skin tonight lol.
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There is a new abuse going on with Leoric + Abathur that resembles the abuse Abathur and Azmodan had earlier.
The quick rundown is this: You play normally and gather as much globes as possible on Leoric for his Reanimation talent. Once you reach level 16 you just go at their base and start attacking a keep while Abathur hats you. You can do decent burst damage to it using your Q, ultimate and abathur's damage. They will kill you but having stacked all reanimation talents you can bring your deathtimer down by over 40 seconds. You will revive so fast you can keep doing this while the other team has to choose: stop it or surrender any map control. Either way they are doomed because leoric will take down the keeps and core and/or they get every merc/objective. Heck even if you counterpush Leoric can just hearth in ghost form to help defend that. It's not sure the tactic is broken but it's annoyingly hard to stop and most of all stupid.
Edit: Decided to make own topic for it
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EPT
