Condoleezza Rice on "torture" / waterboarding.

Condoleezza Rice on "torture" / waterboarding. - Page 18

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Servolisk

United States5241 Posts

May 17 2009 23:26 GMT

#341

On May 17 2009 10:22 Aegraen wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 17 2009 08:40 Biff The Understudy wrote:

On May 16 2009 09:24 Aegraen wrote:

On May 16 2009 09:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:

On May 16 2009 09:14 zizou21 wrote:
dude biff please stop posting in this thread

I am really sorry, but I feel I should react when someone says it's completely normal to torture people. The whole thing is fucking surreal.

You yet again fail to grasp that I'm not advocated across the border 'torture'. I don't find waterboarding torture. It is not harmful in any way shape or form. Ask just about every military personnel subjected to it..It is nothing, but perception and the way perception plays on your fears.

I am against torture as employed by Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, NKVD, VC, Pol Pot, Japanese doctors and scientists in WWII, etc.

Coercive techniques are not torture, though however subjective the word is, you probably believe throwing someone in a room filled with benign spiders as torture if someone has arachnophobia. So, yea, I am I guess a 'monster' according to you, even though I'm not hurting a single person, yet in the process I am potentially saving many, and if only one, makes it worth it.

"Torture: Physical or moral pain inflicted to someone to make him reveal something he refuses to say." That's from the Robert, main french dictionary.

Saying that it's not torture for you doesn't change anything. This is torture. Don't escape the moral problem by playing with words.

Now.

I will tell you: because you seem unable to understand the moral issue, I will try to explain you the problem another way:

Your country is losing its soul. Nobody believe that you fight for something good, because you behave exctly the same way that the "evil terrorist" you have against you. US have been behaving like a terrorist country over the six last year, breaking international rules, doing an illegal war for private interest, lying to its own people, torturing people, killing countless innocents.

You think it doesn't matter because what you only focus on is your security. But you are wrong. For every innocent you kill, for every people you torture, for every country you invade, you create thousand of ennemies, of "terrorist" who hate you and will fight you.

You can't imagine the harm Bush era has done to America. America have never been very popular, but now its mostly hated all around the world. You are wrong to think it's not a problem. It's a huge problem. It's your number one problem. Everybody want you down. Even Britons now hate america. I know it, I live in London. You pronounce the word US, and people think about Guantanamo, about torture, about all this shit.

If you don't behave better than Taleban, I don't see why people should wish you to win this war. I personnaly don't really think I do.

You believe in force. That doesn't work. That has basically never worked.

When did America behead those we are fighting against? When did Americans target civilians specifically? When was the last time we took Journalists hostage? I could go on.....

Are you blind or deaf? How can you ask that question. When did Americans target civilians? You don't deserve to be taken seriously.

Last time you took journalist hostage? Not sure about journalist specifically, but any random group of people can be taken without trial into Guantanamo. And the US did hit Al Jazeera news stations with missles.

We aren't losing our soul. In case you forgot, we got attacked. That's fine, the world can hate us like it hates Israel. I would rather have security then the good will of other countries. That's fine, it's no wonder, Europe is increasingly becoming a Muslim controlled continent so its no wonder you would think like that.

Nice, nice. Muslim = terrorist (check).

Didn't get attacked by Iraq, you ____. "We got attacked." Honestly, go die for using the most refuted logic of all time. It was bad enough trying to beat this into the skulls of dimwits when this reasoning was more popular, but who has the time for this argument eight years later.

You aren't getting security or goodwill, the irony is just compounding too heavily here.

I'm sure you hate Israel also.

lolol

PS: Last I checked everyone still flocks to America to live...now, since we are apparently so bad, what is the reasons for the mass immigration to America?

Would be 2x the immigration if not for necons.

Servolisk

United States5241 Posts

May 17 2009 23:35 GMT

#342

On May 17 2009 10:18 L wrote:
if he wasn't lying and is indeed the type of person that the USA recruits into their intelligence agencies then we're in big trouble.

-____- No joke. It's a difficult to solve problem. What kind of people actually want to join the military? It's not like Korea who can get Boxer.

Although, after some hearing (forget title of it) where a CIA interrogator (guy who did the standard, legal interrogation) was being questioned by some select group of congress, he was a sane and reasonable guy, unhappy with what had happened. His standard interrogations of Abdul Zubaidah produced what was among the best intelligence from any Al'Qaeda interrogation of any method. Meanwhile when the same guy was waterboarded (like 80 times?) they got zero. So at least it may not be 100% hopeless.

Unentschieden

Germany1471 Posts

May 19 2009 19:16 GMT

#343

While a bit apart from the current Thread direction I´d like to post something about the original Issue. Condi didn´t explictably get hammered for Torture (this time) but her admission that "it´s legal if the President does it". That isn´t a President, thats a Dictator.

But even if the Bush administration considered itself above the law they knew that the pupblic had different ideas about the legal system. That is why they needed Gitmo, Secret FBI Prisons etc. - it´s clearly against the US law to torture and waterboarding IS Torture (refering to numerous quotes in this thread).

Some might argue that I as German shouldn´t care about what the US does. But the USA is the symbol of "the west" a ideological group of nations sharing values like freedom, private ownership, christian values, free markets etc.

The bevavior of the Bush Administration hollowed the promises of "the west", strenghtening the position of what is collectivly called "international Terrorism"(Which ISN´T a single group as "us vs them" suggests). There is no purely military solution to Terrorism, because the Bush Administration shure tried. and failed.

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