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Scientists 'solve' checkers

Forum Index > General Forum
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1 2 3 Next All
Wizard
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Poland5055 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-07-21 04:16:05
July 21 2007 04:10 GMT
#1
Alberta (Canada) – Canadian researchers have created an invincible Checkers program that can beat any human. Jonathan Schaeffer from the University of Alberta began working on his “Chinook” program 18 years ago and now claims to have mathematically solved the game.

Schaeffer published his results in the journal Science and documents how he had dozens of computers compute through billions possible moves. Chinook now has a database of possible moves and countermoves which, according to Schaeffer, can only allow a human to draw under the best possible circumstances.

Unconvinced? You can now test your skills against Chinook because Schaeffer has put the program online here . Of course there isn’t much fun to a playing Checkers when you know you are about to lose, so the scientist has turned his computers onto a much more lofty goal … beating humans at Poker.

Source: http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33003/98/
Play (scroll down): http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~chinook/play/index.html
sAviOr[gm] ~ want to watch good replays? read my blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/wizard
CaucasianAsian
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
Korea (South)11602 Posts
July 21 2007 04:13 GMT
#2
wher do you play it?
Calendar@ Fish Server: `iOps]..Stark
Wizard
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Poland5055 Posts
July 21 2007 04:15 GMT
#3
Link added:.
sAviOr[gm] ~ want to watch good replays? read my blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/wizard
Pressure
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
7326 Posts
July 21 2007 04:18 GMT
#4
poker? rofl thats impossible lol
sushiman
Profile Joined September 2003
Sweden2691 Posts
July 21 2007 05:18 GMT
#5
wow, what a waste of 18 years. -_-
1000 at least.
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
July 21 2007 05:24 GMT
#6
Checkers has far fewer possible outcomes compared to games like Chess or Go, so it's not surprising that they could develop an unbeatable AI.
IIICodeIIIIIII
Profile Joined April 2006
China1101 Posts
July 21 2007 05:24 GMT
#7
have one computer play white. have the other play black in another window. you know what i'm getting at...
Wizard
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Poland5055 Posts
July 21 2007 05:24 GMT
#8
^^
Lolz. -_-
sAviOr[gm] ~ want to watch good replays? read my blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/wizard
Pika Chu
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Romania2510 Posts
July 21 2007 05:30 GMT
#9
On July 21 2007 14:24 Jyvblamo wrote:
Checkers has far fewer possible outcomes compared to games like Chess or Go, so it's not surprising that they could develop an unbeatable AI.


There are very good AI's for Chess, but not even a mediocre one for Go (afaik).
They first ignore you. After they laugh at you. Next they will fight you. In the end you will win.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
July 21 2007 05:30 GMT
#10
open 2 games with this comp, one in which you go first, one in which comp goes first, then mirror.


omfg?!
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-07-21 06:01:39
July 21 2007 05:36 GMT
#11
I saw something about this on Sirlin.net

http://www.sirlin.net/archive/checkers-solved/#comments

Too bad poker has way too many variables and cannot be mathematically solved.
Also Chess "I heard somewhere (lost the source, sorry) that if every particle in the universe could somehow be used to compute one operation per second and that all the particles in the universe were used in a massively parallel computer that analyzed all possible positions in Chess, it would take longer than the current estimated age of the universe to finish. So yeah, pretty long."
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
LxRogue
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States1415 Posts
July 21 2007 05:37 GMT
#12
If 2 of these comps play each other, they will just draw. For some games it matters who go first, but not checkers apparently.
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
July 21 2007 05:43 GMT
#13
On July 21 2007 14:30 Pika Chu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2007 14:24 Jyvblamo wrote:
Checkers has far fewer possible outcomes compared to games like Chess or Go, so it's not surprising that they could develop an unbeatable AI.


There are very good AI's for Chess, but not even a mediocre one for Go (afaik).


I know that, the point is both those games have incredibly greater numbers of possible moves/outcomes compared to Checkers. I didn't say Chess was comparable to Go in terms of possible games (it's not).
LeoTheLion
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
China958 Posts
July 21 2007 05:49 GMT
#14
On July 21 2007 14:18 sushiman wrote:
wow, what a waste of 18 years. -_-


to publish a paper in science that's worth it

guaranteed professorship for the rest of his life
Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. -Chairman Mao
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-07-21 05:59:21
July 21 2007 05:54 GMT
#15
Most of us have been playing Starcraft for 9-10 years. Its not that much a difference.

Wow, also on that site it lists other games that have been solved. My Gf thinks shes the shit at connect 4, I'll rape her every time now.

http://homepages.cwi.nl/~tromp/c4/c4.html
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-07-21 06:07:52
July 21 2007 06:07 GMT
#16
[image loading]


Wtf How did I lose?

It wouldn't let me move any more pieces.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26004 Posts
July 21 2007 06:13 GMT
#17
This has been solved for awhile, no?
Moderator
mikeymoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada7170 Posts
July 21 2007 06:14 GMT
#18
Haha I live in Calgary and this was on all the news channels at night.

HUGE breakthrough. *cough*

I'd think that next on the list is Monopoly; a "best of" set to offset luck issues. Odds and implied odds are very important. Also, a computer could easily understand the exact values of a proposed trade in the long term better than any human.
o_x | Ow. | 1003 ESPORTS dollars | If you have any questions about bans please PM Kennigit
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
July 21 2007 06:32 GMT
#19
go is crazy.
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
July 21 2007 07:02 GMT
#20
On July 21 2007 15:07 CharlieMurphy wrote:
[image loading]


Wtf How did I lose?

It wouldn't let me move any more pieces.


captures are forced in checkers=/ you only have 1 option, capture the white piece, at which point he will counter-capture 3 of yours and it spirals down from there
(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
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