EPTHaving a middle class creates demand.
Nowadays consumers and corporations don‘t profit from each other, they compete imo.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4890
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Vivax
22043 Posts
Having a middle class creates demand. Nowadays consumers and corporations don‘t profit from each other, they compete imo. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25665 Posts
On April 03 2025 09:11 Mohdoo wrote: Thanks for the thoughtful replies, all. The point regarding excessively huge tariffs giving domestic companies breathing room to increase their prices highlights the other point made regarding the need for tariffs to be precise. I think most of us agree precise tariffs would be great for lots of critical manufacturing. Its important for any major nation to have the skills to make materials, medicines, and other critical components of keeping the lights on. We would be harming ourselves if we let those industries rot domestically to save a dollar. At this point, all I can really do is hope the whole world decides appeasing the US is necessary in the short term while they work out ways to decouple from the American hegemony. Very similar to the decision made with Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Russia was an asshole, but it was also impossible to just cut them off overnight. I want to make a point very directly because I think its a worthwhile devil's advocate of sorts. Russia, Iran, and other adversarial countries benefit enormously from framing themselves as irrational actors. Countries who walk off a cliff because they know other countries will catch them are able to reap incredible benefits by other countries being critically connected to them. Trump actually walking off this cliff and setting in motion a collapse of the world economy would be so destructive it would clearly make sense to simply appease Trump. I think this is only a card the US can play once, but its possible it would turn out to be unbelievably beneficial if we pull it off. Just like how we've all discussed Europe's pitiful reaction to Russia was largely due to their robust and well-preserved democracies, these same weaknesses also tie the hands of many other nations. Even though there's all this talk of unity and whatnot and everyone is extra fired up to disengage from the US, these perspectives would quickly vanish if Europe's unemployment rate doubled. People would be saying "I hate the US and I want us to make sure this never happens again, but if we are unprepared to wage this trade war, I want to surrender and live to fight another day". I say all this knowing I truly have no way of understanding what the "real" situation is. Maybe the world really can simply isolate the US and force the US to backtrack without feeling pressure within their democracies. Maybe they'd just get an uptick in inflation while mostly weathering the storm. I truly don't know. But everything I've learned from Russia and Iran indicates the costs of decisively fighting back against international belligerence is way too high for most countries to actually consider. Right now everything feels like a huge game of chicken and I really think its possible the US pulls off a heist but then needing to find a new way to maintain their control over the world. Europe sanctioned Russia en masse and spent 100+ billion in military and other aid to Ukraine. Enough? Debatable. Pitiful? Nah The thing here is that it’s way less in the hands of government than that policy was. It’s in the hands of businesses and consumers now. It’s not like an Iraq War where you can be fervently against it but not able to do anything about it. And oh lord, don’t underestimate spite, hatred, petty nationalism etc. People can be quite motivated by it, and the US currently is disliked over here by fucking magnitudes than I can ever remember. Sure that’s not gonna manifest in everyone boycotting American produce or whatever, but it’s not negligible either | ||
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Billyboy
1119 Posts
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Razyda
799 Posts
On April 02 2025 22:49 EnDeR_ wrote: It's so depressing. I've stopped purchasing anything originating from Israel and have stopped reviewing project proposals involving Israeli scientists as well as papers. Definitely meagre, but not sure what else I can personally do -- Spain is already more pro-Palestine than the rest of Europe so unlikely to achieve anything else voting-wise. I'd guess they'll start by living in limbo somewhere very shitty and eventually will be forced to relocate elsewhere. This is just awful. Bolded - that's why democrats lost election. When you are at work you should do what you are paid to do, not what's aligns with your world view. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2574 Posts
That's the kind of headline that makes me want to read the article just to find out what kind of drugs the journalist is on. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44601 Posts
"The Senate adopted a resolution by a vote of 51 to 48 aimed at blocking the Trump administration’s proposed tariffs on Canadian imports. The four Republicans who voted with Democrats were: Sens. Rand Paul, who cosponsored the resolution, Susan Collins, Mitch McConnell, and Lisa Murkowski." https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/04/02/politics/senate-vote-tariffs-republicans-trump | ||
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Husyelt
United States836 Posts
On April 03 2025 11:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Looks like the Democrats and 4 Republicans have temporarily blocked some of Trump's tariffs, in a rare bipartisan pro-USA pro-Canada decision. But just barely. "The Senate adopted a resolution by a vote of 51 to 48 aimed at blocking the Trump administration’s proposed tariffs on Canadian imports. The four Republicans who voted with Democrats were: Sens. Rand Paul, who cosponsored the resolution, Susan Collins, Mitch McConnell, and Lisa Murkowski." https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/04/02/politics/senate-vote-tariffs-republicans-trump Cant the House just not even take this up if Johnson doesn't want to? Im betting the House would cave to Trump too even with the shift towards the left thats been happening in recent elections | ||
KwarK
United States42971 Posts
https://pay.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1jq1qji/trumps_tariff_numbers_are_just_trade_balance/ml4pear/ He's literally not aware of what any of this means. Cambodia does not have 90% tariffs against the US. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11554 Posts
On April 03 2025 13:59 KwarK wrote: Someone worked out where Trump's tariff numbers were coming from. https://pay.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1jq1qji/trumps_tariff_numbers_are_just_trade_balance/ml4pear/ He's literally not aware of what any of this means. Cambodia does not have 90% tariffs against the US. This would be incredibly funny if it didn't actually have real consequences. It is just so fucking stupid and silly. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23295 Posts
On April 03 2025 13:17 Husyelt wrote: Cant the House just not even take this up if Johnson doesn't want to? Im betting the House would cave to Trump too even with the shift towards the left thats been happening in recent elections LibHorizons: Correct. Also Trump would just veto it. That it is just 1 out of 185 countries he put tariffs on makes it that much more asinine. EDIT: I should add that Canada is already currently exempt from the 10% global baseline tariff, but still potentially subject to some others. MEXICO CITY/OTTAWA, April 2 (Reuters) - Mexico and Canada avoided fresh tariffs on Wednesday with President Donald Trump exempting the United States' top trading partners from his new 10% global tariff baseline, although previous duties remain in place. Goods from Mexico and Canada that comply with the USMCA trade agreement between the three countries will largely remain exempt from tariffs, except for auto exports and steel and aluminum which fall under separate tariff policies. Trump previously imposed 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada for not doing enough to curb migration and fentanyl trafficking, but later issued a carve out for USMCA compliant goods. "For Canada and Mexico, the existing fentanyl/migration ... orders remain in effect, and are unaffected by this order," the White House fact sheet said. "In the event the existing fentanyl/migration ... orders are terminated, USMCA compliant goods would continue to receive preferential treatment, while non-USMCA compliant goods would be subject to a 12% reciprocal tariff." www.reuters.com | ||
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decafchicken
United States20028 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8570 Posts
On April 03 2025 13:59 KwarK wrote: Someone worked out where Trump's tariff numbers were coming from. https://pay.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1jq1qji/trumps_tariff_numbers_are_just_trade_balance/ml4pear/ He's literally not aware of what any of this means. Cambodia does not have 90% tariffs against the US. that would be the Trump modus operandi. talk a big game without understanding anything, underdelivering/breaking stuff(as is most often the case). and then blame whoever or whatever seems convenient. when someone is saying "he is playing 4d chess man"... what that means is Trump calling himself "Don strong" 4 times before he breaks the board. On April 03 2025 14:31 decafchicken wrote: The fact that congress could end this clown show if 1% of the GOP grew enough of a spine to end the completely made up national state of emergency which would benefit the entire globe, America included, to the order of tens of trillions of dollars but they refuse to is absolutely mind numbing they will react, their donors won't stand for it. money rules these ghouls. the funny thing to watch out for will be their pivot and how they try to communicate it. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18050 Posts
On April 03 2025 14:31 decafchicken wrote: The fact that congress could end this clown show if 1% of the GOP grew enough of a spine to end the completely made up national state of emergency which would benefit the entire globe, America included, to the order of tens of trillions of dollars but they refuse to is absolutely mind numbing Wait, this is all possible because of the state of emergency, which is about Fentanyl, right? So... Cambodia is getting tariffs because the US failed to regulate their legal opioid market and now have a Fentanyl problem since people moved off oxy. What does Cambodia have to do with the Fentanyl pandemic? Can't a judge just strike 99% of these tariffs down as being obvious overreach? | ||
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Sermokala
United States13986 Posts
On April 03 2025 13:59 KwarK wrote: Someone worked out where Trump's tariff numbers were coming from. https://pay.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1jq1qji/trumps_tariff_numbers_are_just_trade_balance/ml4pear/ He's literally not aware of what any of this means. Cambodia does not have 90% tariffs against the US. He decided to tariff islands that are not inhabited by human beings. Jan mayan is an island that sometimes has military bases on it, but has no economic activity in it. | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany999 Posts
World Economics in the western world is a sped up middleclass squeeze out. Step 0: Somekind of slump in economics is happening. Step 1: Government goes into debt (lending from the rich) and spending spree (2008 Bail outs, Covid Relief, Bidennomics..) Step 2: The Money spent accumulates at the top, because the mega wealthy and their super wealthy goons aren't taxed Step 3: The wealthy gobble up assets, as their consumerism isn't limited by their income, never was, and doesn't change. But they need to spent the money.. and buy land, housing, companies, gold, stocks. Step 4: Inflation happens because assets get more expensive.. even "poor people" may enjoy the buzz, because your grandparent's house suddenly doubled in value and you sold it to fund the retirement home and then some..but you never be able to buy this asset again. Step 5: Spending dries up, because what money was spent by the rich on getting more assets has been burned up by the asset selling middle class Step 6: Economic slump because of less consumerism or other catastrophe. Now everyting repeats. Governments will refrain from taxing the mega wealthy, and only tax the middle class. Cut spending (which mostly goes to middle class), entering austerity and selling off their assets as well. Until even governments are renting offices and printers.. and at some iteration the welfare state has to be cut. Police cut, Education.. cut.. Publicly funded research cut. The working and middle class at some point wil have gone through enough iterations to be stripped of assets and inflation will forbid their consumerism.. it suddenly and violently doesn't pay off to offer services and sell products for normal people.. the only people who can consume are rich people. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44601 Posts
"The export figures from Heard Island and McDonald Islands are even more perplexing. The territory does have a fishery but no buildings or human habitation whatsoever." https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/03/donald-trump-tariffs-antarctica-uninhabited-heard-mcdonald-islands First he eats our dogs, and then he taxes the penguins... Donald Trump truly is the Donald Trump of our generation. | ||
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EnDeR_
Spain2718 Posts
On April 03 2025 09:35 Razyda wrote: Bolded - that's why democrats lost election. When you are at work you should do what you are paid to do, not what's aligns with your world view. You don't get paid to assess proposals or papers. You do it because if no one reviewed these things, funding or papers would not get allocated/accepted or gets massively delayed affecting the livelihoods of all of us. | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany999 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44601 Posts
On April 03 2025 18:42 KT_Elwood wrote: I had to add your last line in my signature @DarkPlasmaBall I feel honored  | ||
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r00ty
Germany1056 Posts
Of course this is stupid, manufacturing will not magically return to the US by executive order. You know what's nice for investments like he desires? Stability. For the second time in my life i'm with Rand Paul, props to him for speaking up: The fake emergency powers need to be taken away and the power to make decisions like that needs to be returned to the proper channels of government and power. The wannabe king in chief will do a lot more harm otherwise. | ||
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