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On March 24 2022 08:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2022 07:02 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 02:57 Zambrah wrote:
Sure but in a hypothetical world where Democrats are actually entirely incompetent rather than just kind of incompetent and majorly disingenuous they should stop their spoilers. If I presume they’re all entirely disingenuous then the only thing I have left to advocate for is people throwing bricks at Joe Manchin and his daughter’s cars, boats, and houses, and throwing eggs and milkshakes at Joe Manchin and his rotten daughter.
I like to be hopeful at times, it’s a fatal character flaw in this world The kind of Democrat you would vote for would never get elected in West Virginia so all you're doing is electing a Republican instead. Manchin is barely better than a Republican and once he retires he'll be replaced by one anyway. Not that big of a loss at this point once KBJ gets confirmed.
I think judge confirmations is more than we could ever get with a republican replacing Manchin.
Also I won't be surprised if Thomas ends up getting replaced during Biden's first term. Manchin may be crucial for that. I'd say it is very likely Thomas gets replaced some time between 2022-2028.
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On March 24 2022 09:05 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2022 08:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 24 2022 07:02 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 02:57 Zambrah wrote:
Sure but in a hypothetical world where Democrats are actually entirely incompetent rather than just kind of incompetent and majorly disingenuous they should stop their spoilers. If I presume they’re all entirely disingenuous then the only thing I have left to advocate for is people throwing bricks at Joe Manchin and his daughter’s cars, boats, and houses, and throwing eggs and milkshakes at Joe Manchin and his rotten daughter.
I like to be hopeful at times, it’s a fatal character flaw in this world The kind of Democrat you would vote for would never get elected in West Virginia so all you're doing is electing a Republican instead. Manchin is barely better than a Republican and once he retires he'll be replaced by one anyway. Not that big of a loss at this point once KBJ gets confirmed. I think judge confirmations is more than we could ever get with a republican replacing Manchin. Also I won't be surprised if Thomas ends up getting replaced during Biden's first term. Manchin may be crucial for that. I'd say it is very likely Thomas gets replaced some time between 2022-2028.
Well, if Thomas' seat does become vacant shortly before the 2024 election, you better pray Biden wins because Manchin will hold up a second confirmation if it's too close to election day for him.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/594196-manchin-would-oppose-on-second-supreme-court-nominee-right-before-midterms
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On March 24 2022 08:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2022 07:02 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 02:57 Zambrah wrote:
Sure but in a hypothetical world where Democrats are actually entirely incompetent rather than just kind of incompetent and majorly disingenuous they should stop their spoilers. If I presume they’re all entirely disingenuous then the only thing I have left to advocate for is people throwing bricks at Joe Manchin and his daughter’s cars, boats, and houses, and throwing eggs and milkshakes at Joe Manchin and his rotten daughter.
I like to be hopeful at times, it’s a fatal character flaw in this world The kind of Democrat you would vote for would never get elected in West Virginia so all you're doing is electing a Republican instead. Manchin is barely better than a Republican and once he retires he'll be replaced by one anyway. Not that big of a loss at this point once KBJ gets confirmed.
If Manchin tomorrow decided not to support the Democrats any more, Mitch McConnell would be Senate majority leader.
From your standpoint that would be a lot worse.
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On March 24 2022 09:32 StasisField wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2022 09:05 Mohdoo wrote:On March 24 2022 08:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 24 2022 07:02 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 02:57 Zambrah wrote:
Sure but in a hypothetical world where Democrats are actually entirely incompetent rather than just kind of incompetent and majorly disingenuous they should stop their spoilers. If I presume they’re all entirely disingenuous then the only thing I have left to advocate for is people throwing bricks at Joe Manchin and his daughter’s cars, boats, and houses, and throwing eggs and milkshakes at Joe Manchin and his rotten daughter.
I like to be hopeful at times, it’s a fatal character flaw in this world The kind of Democrat you would vote for would never get elected in West Virginia so all you're doing is electing a Republican instead. Manchin is barely better than a Republican and once he retires he'll be replaced by one anyway. Not that big of a loss at this point once KBJ gets confirmed. I think judge confirmations is more than we could ever get with a republican replacing Manchin. Also I won't be surprised if Thomas ends up getting replaced during Biden's first term. Manchin may be crucial for that. I'd say it is very likely Thomas gets replaced some time between 2022-2028. Well, if Thomas' seat does become vacant shortly before the 2024 election, you better pray Biden wins because Manchin will hold up a second confirmation if it's too close to election day for him. https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/594196-manchin-would-oppose-on-second-supreme-court-nominee-right-before-midterms
He's a firm believer in being on the wrong side of the Republican's double standards. I guess he makes the conscious choice to fuck things over, rather than getting duped by the crocodile tears of people who've basically declared them persona non grata.
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On March 24 2022 11:49 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2022 09:32 StasisField wrote:On March 24 2022 09:05 Mohdoo wrote:On March 24 2022 08:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 24 2022 07:02 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 02:57 Zambrah wrote:
Sure but in a hypothetical world where Democrats are actually entirely incompetent rather than just kind of incompetent and majorly disingenuous they should stop their spoilers. If I presume they’re all entirely disingenuous then the only thing I have left to advocate for is people throwing bricks at Joe Manchin and his daughter’s cars, boats, and houses, and throwing eggs and milkshakes at Joe Manchin and his rotten daughter.
I like to be hopeful at times, it’s a fatal character flaw in this world The kind of Democrat you would vote for would never get elected in West Virginia so all you're doing is electing a Republican instead. Manchin is barely better than a Republican and once he retires he'll be replaced by one anyway. Not that big of a loss at this point once KBJ gets confirmed. I think judge confirmations is more than we could ever get with a republican replacing Manchin. Also I won't be surprised if Thomas ends up getting replaced during Biden's first term. Manchin may be crucial for that. I'd say it is very likely Thomas gets replaced some time between 2022-2028. Well, if Thomas' seat does become vacant shortly before the 2024 election, you better pray Biden wins because Manchin will hold up a second confirmation if it's too close to election day for him. https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/594196-manchin-would-oppose-on-second-supreme-court-nominee-right-before-midterms He's a firm believer in being on the wrong side of the Republican's double standards. I guess he makes the conscious choice to fuck things over, rather than getting duped by the crocodile tears of people who've basically declared them persona non grata.
That's clearly a play to appeal to his mostly Republican voter base.
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On March 24 2022 07:02 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2022 02:57 Zambrah wrote:
Sure but in a hypothetical world where Democrats are actually entirely incompetent rather than just kind of incompetent and majorly disingenuous they should stop their spoilers. If I presume they’re all entirely disingenuous then the only thing I have left to advocate for is people throwing bricks at Joe Manchin and his daughter’s cars, boats, and houses, and throwing eggs and milkshakes at Joe Manchin and his rotten daughter.
I like to be hopeful at times, it’s a fatal character flaw in this world The kind of Democrat you would vote for would never get elected in West Virginia so all you're doing is electing a Republican instead.
It’s harder for a Republican Republican to make Democrats look bad than it is for a Republican Democrat to make Democrats look bad
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Man the child porn theatrics at the KBJ confirmation hearings are so... characteristic. Can just see them in the strategy room, "pizzagate worked pretty good, let's plant those seeds again and harvest in November."
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On March 24 2022 15:34 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2022 07:02 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 02:57 Zambrah wrote:
Sure but in a hypothetical world where Democrats are actually entirely incompetent rather than just kind of incompetent and majorly disingenuous they should stop their spoilers. If I presume they’re all entirely disingenuous then the only thing I have left to advocate for is people throwing bricks at Joe Manchin and his daughter’s cars, boats, and houses, and throwing eggs and milkshakes at Joe Manchin and his rotten daughter.
I like to be hopeful at times, it’s a fatal character flaw in this world The kind of Democrat you would vote for would never get elected in West Virginia so all you're doing is electing a Republican instead. It’s harder for a Republican Republican to make Democrats look bad than it is for a Republican Democrat to make Democrats look bad
On the flip side, a Republican Republican will always try to make Democrats look bad, while a Republican Democrat is not always trying to do that.
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On March 24 2022 19:56 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2022 15:34 Zambrah wrote:On March 24 2022 07:02 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 02:57 Zambrah wrote:
Sure but in a hypothetical world where Democrats are actually entirely incompetent rather than just kind of incompetent and majorly disingenuous they should stop their spoilers. If I presume they’re all entirely disingenuous then the only thing I have left to advocate for is people throwing bricks at Joe Manchin and his daughter’s cars, boats, and houses, and throwing eggs and milkshakes at Joe Manchin and his rotten daughter.
I like to be hopeful at times, it’s a fatal character flaw in this world The kind of Democrat you would vote for would never get elected in West Virginia so all you're doing is electing a Republican instead. It’s harder for a Republican Republican to make Democrats look bad than it is for a Republican Democrat to make Democrats look bad On the flip side, a Republican Republican will always try to make Democrats look bad, while a Republican Democrat is not always trying to do that.
A Republican Republican will never have the credibility to make a Democrat look bad the way a Republican Democrat does.
Democrats cant cry "Republicans block us!" when Republicans arent blocking them, instead Democrats are blocking Democrats which makes Democrats look weak and incompetent.
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On March 24 2022 20:27 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2022 19:56 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 15:34 Zambrah wrote:On March 24 2022 07:02 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 02:57 Zambrah wrote:
Sure but in a hypothetical world where Democrats are actually entirely incompetent rather than just kind of incompetent and majorly disingenuous they should stop their spoilers. If I presume they’re all entirely disingenuous then the only thing I have left to advocate for is people throwing bricks at Joe Manchin and his daughter’s cars, boats, and houses, and throwing eggs and milkshakes at Joe Manchin and his rotten daughter.
I like to be hopeful at times, it’s a fatal character flaw in this world The kind of Democrat you would vote for would never get elected in West Virginia so all you're doing is electing a Republican instead. It’s harder for a Republican Republican to make Democrats look bad than it is for a Republican Democrat to make Democrats look bad On the flip side, a Republican Republican will always try to make Democrats look bad, while a Republican Democrat is not always trying to do that. A Republican Republican will never have the credibility to make a Democrat look bad the way a Republican Democrat does. Democrats cant cry "Republicans block us!" when Republicans arent blocking them, instead Democrats are blocking Democrats which makes Democrats look weak and incompetent.
The solution to Manchin blocking Democrats is to elect more Democrats, not less though.
You'd best be looking in another state that doesn't vote 70% Trump.
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On March 24 2022 21:33 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2022 20:27 Zambrah wrote:On March 24 2022 19:56 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 15:34 Zambrah wrote:On March 24 2022 07:02 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 02:57 Zambrah wrote:
Sure but in a hypothetical world where Democrats are actually entirely incompetent rather than just kind of incompetent and majorly disingenuous they should stop their spoilers. If I presume they’re all entirely disingenuous then the only thing I have left to advocate for is people throwing bricks at Joe Manchin and his daughter’s cars, boats, and houses, and throwing eggs and milkshakes at Joe Manchin and his rotten daughter.
I like to be hopeful at times, it’s a fatal character flaw in this world The kind of Democrat you would vote for would never get elected in West Virginia so all you're doing is electing a Republican instead. It’s harder for a Republican Republican to make Democrats look bad than it is for a Republican Democrat to make Democrats look bad On the flip side, a Republican Republican will always try to make Democrats look bad, while a Republican Democrat is not always trying to do that. A Republican Republican will never have the credibility to make a Democrat look bad the way a Republican Democrat does. Democrats cant cry "Republicans block us!" when Republicans arent blocking them, instead Democrats are blocking Democrats which makes Democrats look weak and incompetent. The solution to Manchin blocking Democrats is to elect more Democrats, not less though. You'd best be looking in another state that doesn't vote 70% Trump.
Yes, that would be the solution, but that is not how people react. People see democrats in power with a majority in both houses, but not accomplishing anything. Sure, the sane thing to do would be to elect more people you like, but the reaction by a lot of people is to just stop giving a fuck and stopping to vote, since it doesn't seem to matter anyways.
On the other hand, US politics are just insane. I still cannot accept that republicans are a relevant force in the country. They should be some 5% fringe party instead of one of the two dominant/only ones.
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On March 25 2022 00:08 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2022 21:33 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 20:27 Zambrah wrote:On March 24 2022 19:56 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 15:34 Zambrah wrote:On March 24 2022 07:02 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 02:57 Zambrah wrote:
Sure but in a hypothetical world where Democrats are actually entirely incompetent rather than just kind of incompetent and majorly disingenuous they should stop their spoilers. If I presume they’re all entirely disingenuous then the only thing I have left to advocate for is people throwing bricks at Joe Manchin and his daughter’s cars, boats, and houses, and throwing eggs and milkshakes at Joe Manchin and his rotten daughter.
I like to be hopeful at times, it’s a fatal character flaw in this world The kind of Democrat you would vote for would never get elected in West Virginia so all you're doing is electing a Republican instead. It’s harder for a Republican Republican to make Democrats look bad than it is for a Republican Democrat to make Democrats look bad On the flip side, a Republican Republican will always try to make Democrats look bad, while a Republican Democrat is not always trying to do that. A Republican Republican will never have the credibility to make a Democrat look bad the way a Republican Democrat does. Democrats cant cry "Republicans block us!" when Republicans arent blocking them, instead Democrats are blocking Democrats which makes Democrats look weak and incompetent. The solution to Manchin blocking Democrats is to elect more Democrats, not less though. You'd best be looking in another state that doesn't vote 70% Trump. Yes, that would be the solution, but that is not how people react. People see democrats in power with a majority in both houses, but not accomplishing anything. Sure, the sane thing to do would be to elect more people you like, but the reaction by a lot of people is to just stop giving a fuck and stopping to vote, since it doesn't seem to matter anyways. On the other hand, US politics are just insane. I still cannot accept that republicans are a relevant force in the country. They should be some 5% fringe party instead of one of the two dominant/only ones.
Im not sure electing more Democrats is a proper solution though, sure Manchin and Sinema are the hyper-visual spoilers, but I also look to votes on things like the 15 dollar minimum wage where EIGHT Democrats voted against it. Two of whom are the Democrats from fuckin DELAWARE. Ive harped on this before but the fact that two Senators that are from Biden's state voting No says that Biden actually didnt want it, if the sitting president from your state calls and asks you to do something you do that something because that sitting president owns your next elections results for you.
How many more Democrats are needed before you scrape out a 51 - 50 Majority against Republicans? Do we need 60? What happens when oops you get a Sinema style Spoiler that was lying the whole time and always planned to be a spoiler in order to get pharma money?
The number of Democrats needed to fill both houses and be able to defeat spoilers is ludicrous and expecting or hoping for those numbers to happen is a fairy tale when people see "We elected Democrats to both houses and the Presidency and they spent the time in fighting and not fulfilling campaign promises."
There is no simple answer to politics in the US that doesnt in some way involve violence, either the big organized kind, the throwing bricks at politicians houses kind, or the beat strikers to death so they get back to work kind.
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On March 25 2022 01:42 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2022 00:08 Simberto wrote:On March 24 2022 21:33 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 20:27 Zambrah wrote:On March 24 2022 19:56 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 15:34 Zambrah wrote:On March 24 2022 07:02 gobbledydook wrote:On March 24 2022 02:57 Zambrah wrote:
Sure but in a hypothetical world where Democrats are actually entirely incompetent rather than just kind of incompetent and majorly disingenuous they should stop their spoilers. If I presume they’re all entirely disingenuous then the only thing I have left to advocate for is people throwing bricks at Joe Manchin and his daughter’s cars, boats, and houses, and throwing eggs and milkshakes at Joe Manchin and his rotten daughter.
I like to be hopeful at times, it’s a fatal character flaw in this world The kind of Democrat you would vote for would never get elected in West Virginia so all you're doing is electing a Republican instead. It’s harder for a Republican Republican to make Democrats look bad than it is for a Republican Democrat to make Democrats look bad On the flip side, a Republican Republican will always try to make Democrats look bad, while a Republican Democrat is not always trying to do that. A Republican Republican will never have the credibility to make a Democrat look bad the way a Republican Democrat does. Democrats cant cry "Republicans block us!" when Republicans arent blocking them, instead Democrats are blocking Democrats which makes Democrats look weak and incompetent. The solution to Manchin blocking Democrats is to elect more Democrats, not less though. You'd best be looking in another state that doesn't vote 70% Trump. Yes, that would be the solution, but that is not how people react. People see democrats in power with a majority in both houses, but not accomplishing anything. Sure, the sane thing to do would be to elect more people you like, but the reaction by a lot of people is to just stop giving a fuck and stopping to vote, since it doesn't seem to matter anyways. On the other hand, US politics are just insane. I still cannot accept that republicans are a relevant force in the country. They should be some 5% fringe party instead of one of the two dominant/only ones. Im not sure electing more Democrats is a proper solution though, sure Manchin and Sinema are the hyper-visual spoilers, but I also look to votes on things like the 15 dollar minimum wage where EIGHT Democrats voted against it. Two of whom are the Democrats from fuckin DELAWARE. Ive harped on this before but the fact that two Senators that are from Biden's state voting No says that Biden actually didnt want it, if the sitting president from your state calls and asks you to do something you do that something because that sitting president owns your next elections results for you. How many more Democrats are needed before you scrape out a 51 - 50 Majority against Republicans? Do we need 60? What happens when oops you get a Sinema style Spoiler that was lying the whole time and always planned to be a spoiler in order to get pharma money? The number of Democrats needed to fill both houses and be able to defeat spoilers is ludicrous and expecting or hoping for those numbers to happen is a fairy tale when people see "We elected Democrats to both houses and the Presidency and they spent the time in fighting and not fulfilling campaign promises." There is no simple answer to politics in the US that doesnt in some way involve violence, either the big organized kind, the throwing bricks at politicians houses kind, or the beat strikers to death so they get back to work kind.
I think a lot of problems in the US come from the fact that republicans are not a fringe party. That flattens all of the rest of the political spectrum. In a sane setup, democrats would be 3-4 different parties. In the US, you don't really have a choice, because one of the two sole choices is an insane fascist.
This enables a lot of bullshit from democrats, because you really cannot do anything. No matter what you want or believe, you can still only vote for the democrats. No matter how ineffective or corrupt they are, the republicans are still worse. And democrats know this. There is no incentive for them to stop being shit, because the people who care the most have no choice but to vote for them.
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The other political party's entire philosophy is government doesn't work, and they drag their feet to make sure it doesn't work.
60 would be ideal, but I think 51 senators willing to destroy the filbuster is pretty good.
That's probably not going to be enough for serious progressive issues but at least we have a chance in that framework. We vote in Democrats and keep out right wing/center right people.
Unfortunately liberals and Democrats are completely awful at messaging.
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On March 25 2022 02:43 lestye wrote:
The other political party's entire philosophy is government doesn't work, and they drag their feet to make sure it doesn't work.
60 would be ideal, but I think 51 senators willing to destroy the filbuster is pretty good.
That's probably not going to be enough for serious progressive issues but at least we have a chance in that framework. We vote in Democrats and keep out right wing/center right people.
Unfortunately liberals and Democrats are completely awful at messaging.
This is the sticking point, how many Democrats do you actually need to hit this number? How many spoilers are actually in the party reading for their turn at the rotating villain role
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Yeah, I don't think we know for sure. Constituents and the media will have to make the candidate pinky promise to vote against the filibuster.
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On March 25 2022 03:12 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2022 02:48 Zambrah wrote:On March 25 2022 02:43 lestye wrote:
The other political party's entire philosophy is government doesn't work, and they drag their feet to make sure it doesn't work.
60 would be ideal, but I think 51 senators willing to destroy the filbuster is pretty good.
That's probably not going to be enough for serious progressive issues but at least we have a chance in that framework. We vote in Democrats and keep out right wing/center right people.
Unfortunately liberals and Democrats are completely awful at messaging. This is the sticking point, how many Democrats do you actually need to hit this number? How many spoilers are actually in the party reading for their turn at the rotating villain role Depends on the issue and how their voters feel on it.
Yes, Kristen Sinema's constituents want her to sell out to the pharmaceutical industry and Joe Manchin's constituents agree that poor people are all drug addicts and shouldn't be allowed to have money, lol.
American politicians dont give a fuck what their constituents think, their constituents dont get them elected or secure their financial future, donors do that. Donors are who American politicians serve.
On March 25 2022 03:28 lestye wrote:
Yeah, I don't think we know for sure. Constituents and the media will have to make the candidate pinky promise to vote against the filibuster.
Politicians lie and break promises all the time, they wont stop til there are consequences (and Senators cant be impeached so youre in it you win it basically, lol)
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On March 25 2022 03:35 Zambrah wrote:
Politicians lie and break promises all the time, they wont stop til there are consequences (and Senators cant be impeached so youre in it you win it basically, lol)
Yeah, and the consequences are you vote out the people who don't vote to abuse the filibuster and vote in those who say you would. Same issue in any democracy. You can't have them lock in a pre-vote.
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On March 25 2022 04:03 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2022 03:35 Zambrah wrote:
Politicians lie and break promises all the time, they wont stop til there are consequences (and Senators cant be impeached so youre in it you win it basically, lol) Yeah, and the consequences are you vote out the people who don't vote to abuse the filibuster and vote in those who say you would. Same issue in any democracy. You can't have them lock in a pre-vote.
But then it gets to the complicated money-in-politics, first-past-the-post two-party problems with that, elections in the US aren't as simple as being purely about voting in the US.
Candidates with lots of money, lots of political backing, these are often the same types who also lie and sell out their constituencies but what can you do? They have enormous colossal advantages against any decent person because theyre structurally advantaged.
You cant challenge them from outside the party, so you have to challenge them from within where entrenched and corrupt party leaders have near absolute levels of control, because then what, youre going to vote Republican? Can't, the Democrats OWN your vote and you either eat their shit or you get nothing.
When Democrats expel their spoilers from the party or entirely cut them off from electoral support and actually damn their election chances then there will be the start of consequences.
At this point the "just vote" argument is libertarian levels of idealism, human beings arent rational and things arent as easy as just-vote-whats-so-hard-about-that.
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EPT
