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On March 10 2022 13:29 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2022 06:50 plasmidghost wrote:
I honestly have no idea what I'm even supposed to do at this point to stop the dozens of states making anti-trans legislation. It doesn't matter what the federal government or the courts say, kids are being stolen from loving families and it's soon going to be made illegal for me and everyone else to be trans and get healthcare. No one cares outside of us. LGBT groups don't care. Biden isn't doing more to actually stop these policies. I'm leaving the US permanently and moving to Belgium in August and even then, I think that I could lose my rights by then. What's your opinion on male athletes that undergo transition to female? Should they be allowed to compete with biologically female athletes, who naturally do not have the same muscle mass due to biology?
That's your response, really?
Not a shred of empathy to be found. Disgusting.
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I am not mad or that interested in sport in general, but here is a nice article by BBC concerning US swimming competitions and rule changes as a result of Lia Thomson case: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60225075?fbclid=IwAR1CqtkKAnpLWwjK1_UwqbOKGH-oS7CGDCkTQ07amqrcZl2HzD616k_cClk Hope it's helpful for those passionate about the issue.
TLDR:
They decided to implement the following changes:
-A three-person medical panel will now determine whether "prior physical development of the athlete as a male" gives transgender swimmers an unfair advantage.
-There will also be testosterone tests for 36 months before competitions.
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On March 11 2022 04:29 Silvanel wrote:I am not mad or that interested in sport in general, but here is a nice article by BBC concerning US swimming competitions and rule changes as a result of Lia Thomson case: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60225075?fbclid=IwAR1CqtkKAnpLWwjK1_UwqbOKGH-oS7CGDCkTQ07amqrcZl2HzD616k_cClk Hope it's helpful for those passionate about the issue. TLDR: They decided to implement the following changes: -A three-person medical panel will now determine whether "prior physical development of the athlete as a male" gives transgender swimmers an unfair advantage.-There will also be testosterone tests for 36 months before competitions.
Is this on a case-by-case / individual basis?
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If the answer to my questions is essentially fuck you, I don't see any reason to try to continue engaging. So, that's it for this topic for me.
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On March 11 2022 07:04 gobbledydook wrote:
If the answer to my questions is essentially fuck you, I don't see any reason to try to continue engaging. So, that's it for this topic for me.
It was exceedingly tone-deaf to pivot onto bathroom bans and trans-women in sports from plasmidghost's post on trans people basically having their rights erased. If you'd like to discuss that instead, I would be curious as to what your take is.
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sounds like an apt understanding.
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It's also helpful when bringing up a topic to provide detail or be precise. In other words, mention a specific piece of legislation or a news article about trans people having their rights being taken away. It's a better launching point for discussion and makes it more difficult for others to hijack the conversation.
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Here's a small article of something going on in Texas that I think supports PG's feelings of doom. It's short but hits hard with the various legislation going on around the country and how there's seemingly no way to end it.
Amber Briggle says her long fight over gender-affirming care wasn’t a choice but her duty. Her Texas family is under investigation after state Attorney General Ken Paxton issued a legal opinion this year saying gender-affirming treatments for transgender children constitutes child abuse. Later, Gov. Greg Abbott instructed the Department of Family and Protective Services to investigate any reported instances of such treatments.
The Briggles are now the target of such an investigation.
“I’m really not great,” Amber Briggle said. “Actually, my hair is falling out, I can’t sleep. It’s not – we’re not good.”
Briggle’s son is transgender. Back in 2016, she told Texas Standard she invited Paxton over to dinner to “put a human face” to the struggle for transgender rights that Paxton was challenging at the time via opposition to public school bathroom guidelines outlined by the Obama administration.
Today, Briggle tells the Standard that the open investigation by Child Protective Services, or CPS, is causing an immense amount of stress, but she and her husband are trying to shield their kids from the details.
“The lead-up to the CPS visit, which actually happened a week ago today, was very stressful and full of anxiety for both of my children,” Briggle said. “But the caseworker came and went and no one got hauled away in handcuffs, and so they feel like — they feel like it’s over.”
Last week, CPS called Briggle at her office and said the agency would be at her home in half an hour to begin an investigation. Briggle immediately hired a lawyer, at great expense, she says. The day she had dreaded had finally come, she thought.
“Texas legislators have been trying to erase trans kids and harm them and break the hearts of loving parents like me for years. And they’re they’re finally doing it,” Briggle said.
Source
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Northern Ireland26771 Posts
On March 11 2022 07:04 gobbledydook wrote:
If the answer to my questions is essentially fuck you, I don't see any reason to try to continue engaging. So, that's it for this topic for me.
At least once, possibly on multiple times the thread did engage in a pretty thorough debating of such issues.
In a vacuum, again, fair enough. Things are cyclical and discussions will tread multiple times over.
In this instance after what Plasmid posted, is that the time? IMO no, there’s no real ‘fuck you’ to it.
Let’s say someone had shared an experience of being sexually assaulted, and the next post is ‘yeah but what about people wrongfully accused?’
I mean yes, that’s a topic worthy of discussion, at some point, but coming directly after really smacks of minimising or deflecting from their particular experience.
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On March 11 2022 08:51 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2022 07:04 gobbledydook wrote:
If the answer to my questions is essentially fuck you, I don't see any reason to try to continue engaging. So, that's it for this topic for me. It was exceedingly tone-deaf to pivot onto bathroom bans and trans-women in sports from plasmidghost's post on trans people basically having their rights erased. If you'd like to discuss that instead, I would be curious as to what your take is.
It's of course extremely wrong to pretend that transgender people don't have rights. I thought there was no point in debating that. There are unfortunately still people who believe that trans people are really just mentally ill or believe that children are being misled into identifying as trans by their woke teachers and parents. There's nothing better we can do other than call them out for their ignorance or malice.
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The US is big enough that anything can happen.
If they were willing to censure Liz Cheney they should really sanction him too. He is going directly against the interests of the US.
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On March 11 2022 09:24 BlackJack wrote:
It's also helpful when bringing up a topic to provide detail or be precise. In other words, mention a specific piece of legislation or a news article about trans people having their rights being taken away. It's a better launching point for discussion and makes it more difficult for others to hijack the conversation.
A trans person shouldn't have to have all their receipts in line to prove that their anxiety and dread is validated when, yes, we are seeing one headline after another of regressive Republicans moving to strip transgender people of their rights, and Democrats not doing very much to stop them. Plasmidghost shouldn't need to have all the articles lined up in case someone wants to go "but what about transfolk in sports" when they literally came in to discuss their feelings, their fears, and the fact that they've made the heavy choice to leave the country, because of their experiences. When the discussion gets hijacked, it is absolutely right to look at the person who did the hijacking, not the person who could've theoretically done more to prevent the hijacking.
Don't start the victim blaming schtick again. It's not cute.
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Given that the leader of the Republican party, Trump, was anti-Ukraine and pro-Putin while in office, this doesn't surprise me at all. That being said, I still think that most Republican congresspeople are pro-Ukraine and anti-Putin, at least just based on how they clapped and cheered for Biden's remarks during the state of the union speech.
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On March 11 2022 11:45 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2022 08:51 EnDeR_ wrote:On March 11 2022 07:04 gobbledydook wrote:
If the answer to my questions is essentially fuck you, I don't see any reason to try to continue engaging. So, that's it for this topic for me. It was exceedingly tone-deaf to pivot onto bathroom bans and trans-women in sports from plasmidghost's post on trans people basically having their rights erased. If you'd like to discuss that instead, I would be curious as to what your take is. It's of course extremely wrong to pretend that transgender people don't have rights. I thought there was no point in debating that. There are unfortunately still people who believe that trans people are really just mentally ill or believe that children are being misled into identifying as trans by their woke teachers and parents. There's nothing better we can do other than call them out for their ignorance or malice.
To be honest, when you mentioned that whole "what about women who don't want to see penises in their bathroom, shouldn't we respect those women" question, I was having trouble figuring out whether or not you felt that was a reasonable concern. It's not a reasonable concern, as many people explained earlier, and I wondered why you would bring up such a topic, in that way, if you weren't also partially convinced by those people who are actually being either ignorant or malicious towards the trans community.
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United States43976 Posts
When I’m at the gym I don’t especially want to see old men standing in the middle of the changing room butt naked from the shower toweling their butthole dry but ultimately it doesn’t do any harm. If we’re getting to insist that we never see a penis we don’t want to see in a changing room then we have far greater problems to fix than trans people. Old men are the problem, not trans women. They should have their own showers segregated from the rest of us.
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On March 11 2022 13:36 KwarK wrote:
When I’m at the gym I don’t especially want to see old men standing in the middle of the changing room butt naked from the shower toweling their butthole dry but ultimately it doesn’t do any harm. If we’re getting to insist that we never see a penis we don’t want to see in a changing room then we have far greater problems to fix than trans people. Old men are the problem, not trans women. They should have their own showers segregated from the rest of us.
Retirement showers? Nah, that just kinda sounds wrong. Good imagery of old buttholes though, 10/10.
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On March 11 2022 13:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2022 11:45 gobbledydook wrote:On March 11 2022 08:51 EnDeR_ wrote:On March 11 2022 07:04 gobbledydook wrote:
If the answer to my questions is essentially fuck you, I don't see any reason to try to continue engaging. So, that's it for this topic for me. It was exceedingly tone-deaf to pivot onto bathroom bans and trans-women in sports from plasmidghost's post on trans people basically having their rights erased. If you'd like to discuss that instead, I would be curious as to what your take is. It's of course extremely wrong to pretend that transgender people don't have rights. I thought there was no point in debating that. There are unfortunately still people who believe that trans people are really just mentally ill or believe that children are being misled into identifying as trans by their woke teachers and parents. There's nothing better we can do other than call them out for their ignorance or malice. To be honest, when you mentioned that whole "what about women who don't want to see penises in their bathroom, shouldn't we respect those women" question, I was having trouble figuring out whether or not you felt that was a reasonable concern. It's not a reasonable concern, as many people explained earlier, and I wondered why you would bring up such a topic, in that way, if you weren't also partially convinced by those people who are actually being either ignorant or malicious towards the trans community.
Some people are malicious. Others are ignorant, and that doesn't mean they are bad people. You can't please those who are malicious, but it is well worth thinking about trying to get the ignorant on board, in a way that doesn't offend them and turn them into malicious people.
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EPT
