EPTNothing short of a full military coup can keep Trump in power at this point.
Seizing voting machines does nothing, even if they were to find rampant voting fraud that does not exist. That ship has sailed.
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22487 Posts
Nothing short of a full military coup can keep Trump in power at this point. Seizing voting machines does nothing, even if they were to find rampant voting fraud that does not exist. That ship has sailed. | ||
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RenSC2
United States1094 Posts
On December 20 2020 04:45 Nevuk wrote: We're entering extremely dangerous times with regards to Trump wanting to cling to power. The NYT's Haberman has a story on it, with Haberman also putting out a series of tweets outlining an insane meeting last night. Highlights : 1. Trump wants to appoint Sidney Powell as special counsel for election results. 2. Michael Flynn was present for the meeting pushing his idea of a military coup. 3. Giuliani and others are pushing the idea of outright seizing voting machines. + Show Spoiler + Cipollone is the White House counsel and has that position because he believes the president is above the law. For him to be the guy saying, “No” is pretty scary. He seems to have a Barr connection though, so perhaps he’s trying to put the brakes on everything without Barr being around to okay it all. Maybe Barr saying “no” to this sort of stuff is why he’s gone. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On December 20 2020 04:45 Nevuk wrote: We're entering extremely dangerous times with regards to Trump wanting to cling to power. The NYT's Haberman has a story on it, with Haberman also putting out a series of tweets outlining an insane meeting last night. Highlights : 1. Trump wants to appoint Sidney Powell as special counsel for election results. 2. Michael Flynn was present for the meeting pushing his idea of a military coup. 3. Giuliani and others are pushing the idea of outright seizing voting machines. https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1340350060731789313 https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1340353369660076035 https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1340363388988354570 I'm gonna wait and see this one, since it appears the reporting is both anonymous and stemming from people not present in the meeting. There's been too many stories in the NYT anonymously sourced and reported third-hand that never came to fruition. | ||
KwarK
United States44203 Posts
On December 20 2020 07:56 Danglars wrote: I'm gonna wait and see this one, since it appears the reporting is both anonymous and stemming from people not present in the meeting. There's been too many stories in the NYT anonymously sourced and reported third-hand that never came to fruition. Care to name some of them? | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On December 20 2020 07:56 Danglars wrote: I'm gonna wait and see this one, since it appears the reporting is both anonymous and stemming from people not present in the meeting. There's been too many stories in the NYT anonymously sourced and reported third-hand that never came to fruition. Go by reporter rather than paper: Gabriel Sherman, for instance, has a history of really good leaks from Fox News. It doesn't matter what paper he's at. In this case, Haberman has been an extremely reliable WH source. She's even one of the people Trump himself has used to leak. She's been frequently criticized for being too close to the Trump WH in order to get these type of scoops. Note that these meetings are described as having had a lot of attendees (ie it's not just 5-6 people, it seems more like 15-20) , and she's said she has at least 3 different sources so far (2 later ones added the Flynn part to the initial Sydney Powell stuff). Johnathan Swan is also backing this up: he has multiple sources backing it. He also has one noting that it isn't the normal Trump critics in the administration sounding the alarm. Senior Trump administration officials are increasingly alarmed that President Trump might unleash — and abuse — the power of government in an effort to overturn the clear result of the election. Why it matters: These officials tell me that Trump is spending too much time with people they consider crackpots or conspiracy theorists and flirting with blatant abuses of power. The big picture: Their fears include Trump's interest in former national security adviser Michael Flynn's wild talk of martial law; an idea floated of an executive order to commandeer voting machines; and the specter of Sidney Powell, the conspiracy-spewing election lawyer, obtaining governmental power and a top-level security clearance. A senior administration official said that when Trump is "retweeting threats of putting politicians in jail, and spends his time talking to conspiracy nuts who openly say declaring martial law is no big deal, it’s impossible not to start getting anxious about how this ends." "People who are concerned and nervous aren’t the weak-kneed bureaucrats that we loathe," the official added. "These are people who have endured arguably more insanity and mayhem than any administration officials in history." At Friday's meeting, first reported by The New York Times, Trump discussed making Powell a special counsel for election fraud. The ideas included commandeering voting machines, with Powell as a special counsel to inspect the machines, according to a source familiar with the meeting. White House counsel Pat Cipollone and chief of staff Mark Meadows "pushed back strenuously and repeatedly against the ideas put forth by Sidney Powell,” the source said. The meeting included Flynn, who was pardoned by Trump in November and is a celebrity with election-denying Trump supporters. https://www.axios.com/trump-officials-alarmed-overturn-election-results-a844d1d2-acb2-47a9-87ce-ac579458b1ea.html? | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4433 Posts
About NYT using poor and badly checked sources who's story turns out false? NYT was caught out with this just two days ago with their podcast on an ISIS' member alleged atrocities. Now found to be completely fabricated. Possibly they should have checked his story before running the podcast series. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/18/world/middleeast/caliphate-chaudhry-hoax.html A Riveting ISIS Story, Told in a Times Podcast, Falls Apart A Canadian’s gruesome account as an Islamic State executioner in Syria, which was the subject of the “Caliphate” podcast by The New York Times, was fabricated, officials say. A Times review found no corroboration of his claim to have committed atrocities. Canadian law enforcement officials, who conducted an almost four-year investigation into Mr. Chaudhry, say their examination of his travel and financial records, social media posts, statements to the police and other intelligence make them confident that he did not enter Syria or join ISIS, much less commit the grievous crimes he described. Peabody award returned as of yesterday. New York Times hands back Peabody Award, is stripped of other honour over failure to verify Caliphate podcast claims https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-20/new-york-times-caliphate-podcast-unverified-claims-awards-lost/13001180 | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On December 20 2020 08:38 Nevuk wrote: Go by reporter rather than paper: Gabriel Sherman, for instance, has a history of really good leaks from Fox News. It doesn't matter what paper he's at. In this case, Haberman has been an extremely reliable WH source. She's even one of the people Trump himself has used to leak. She's been frequently criticized for being too close to the Trump WH in order to get these type of scoops. Note that these meetings are described as having had a lot of attendees (ie it's not just 5-6 people, it seems more like 15-20) , and she's said she has at least 3 different sources so far (2 later ones added the Flynn part to the initial Sydney Powell stuff). Johnathan Swan is also backing this up: he has multiple sources backing it. He also has one noting that it isn't the normal Trump critics in the administration sounding the alarm. https://www.axios.com/trump-officials-alarmed-overturn-election-results-a844d1d2-acb2-47a9-87ce-ac579458b1ea.html? Thank you. Jonathan Swan from Axios gives much more likelihood that the leak is accurate. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
It's worrying, but it's also pretty clear by now that the creaking scaffold of American democracy has withstood Trump's attempt to tear it down. It's still an embarrassment that there was ever doubt about this, but I think it will weather the last few hail-marys. To me, the biggest remaining risk is one of America's enemies convincing Trump to blow something up in a fit of pique on the way out, both literally and figuratively. | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On December 20 2020 06:24 Gorsameth wrote: No election fraud investigation matters. The results have all been certified and Electors have voted. Nothing short of a full military coup can keep Trump in power at this point. Seizing voting machines does nothing, even if they were to find rampant voting fraud that does not exist. That ship has sailed. People are literally proud they voted for the candidate closest to a Republican out of the entire roster. It's truly sickening, when's the last time Republicans ran their most liberal candidate? | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4433 Posts
On December 20 2020 10:37 JimmiC wrote: That was not a unnamed source. That was guys lying to get famous. It was a brand new example of the NYT failing to do the absolute basic background checks of a source that ended up being a false story. If you want an older story from a few months ago try the 'Losers and Suckers' story which was all from unnamed sources and disappeared pretty quickly. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/04/opinion/trump-losers-suckers-military.html | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On December 20 2020 12:15 Danglars wrote: Thank you. Jonathan Swan from Axios gives much more likelihood that the leak is accurate. No problem. I think it's perfectly valid to point out the issues that can occur with anonymous sources. A number of things made this unlikely to be incorrect, but those same factors also made it almost certain other orgs could back it (like the number of people who would have witnessed it). On December 20 2020 16:13 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: It was a brand new example of the NYT failing to do the absolute basic background checks of a source that ended up being a false story. If you want an older story from a few months ago try the 'Losers and Suckers' story which was all from unnamed sources and disappeared pretty quickly. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/04/opinion/trump-losers-suckers-military.html It disappearing quickly wasn't because it was disproved. That was because the news cycle moves really fast nowadays. The worst anonymous NYT problem recently was when they published the "lodestar" op-ed and attributed it to a "senior administration official"... which turned out to have been a MASSIVE stretch in that term. It wasn't a nobody, but it was no one anyone would know of. The lesson : they're unlikely to flat out lie about what they're being told. They may stretch the truth on WHO is saying it, though, to make it more credible (in this case, there's no need for that: the only thing we care about is what was said in a meeting attended by a lot of people). BTW, has the WH denied these reports? It doesn't seem the like the type of thing they would deny, as their diehard supporters would want this sort of thing to be happening. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4433 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On December 20 2020 14:42 Belisarius wrote: The defeated president appointing a "Special Counsel for Election Fraud" in order to commit election fraud is the newest of the many twists that would have been left on the southpark cutting room floor. It's worrying, but it's also pretty clear by now that the creaking scaffold of American democracy has withstood Trump's attempt to tear it down. It's still an embarrassment that there was ever doubt about this, but I think it will weather the last few hail-marys. To me, the biggest remaining risk is one of America's enemies convincing Trump to blow something up in a fit of pique on the way out, both literally and figuratively. It's literally the opposite of that quote from Biden that they tried taking completely out of context and pretending it was some kind of sick burn. This time it's actually called a counsel for election fraud because it's being used for election fraud. It's a reminder that these are the folks who landed themselves at Four Seasons Total Landscaping when trying to seriously insist that Trump wouldn't concede. The extent of head-up-ass going on here should be medically concerning. | ||
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farvacola
United States18866 Posts
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Slydie
1990 Posts
On December 20 2020 16:46 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Hard to disprove 'she said he said ' heresy but considering it was from anonymous sources with no video or audio evidence it wasn't worthy of being published. You obviously hope the story is inaccurate, but I hope you realize it fits perfectly with Trump's character and course of actions following his election loss. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Slydie
1990 Posts
On December 20 2020 23:54 JimmiC wrote: It is just the stages. Trump would never do that don't be crazy, that is Trump derangement syndrome to even suggest it, can't trust that story with anonymous sources, can't trust those people (even though they were the best people when Trump hired them), sure he did it but it was to fight the deep state, yeah he did it but its not a big deal. Rinse and repeat over and over. With seemingly no awareness of the pattern. Trump rehired Powell and hired Flynn after his marshal law tirade. I don't think there is any reason to doubt that the story about the meeting were largely accurate, what else is there to expect from these people? Throwing in the towel and admitting a fair defeat lol? | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On December 20 2020 21:07 farvacola wrote: I am personally quite happy the parties have reached a compromise on avoiding the shutdown and passing some Covid relief, but this bullshit does not bode well for the next four years. Maybe Biden will get hip. I no longer believe these compromises until they're actually passed and signed. Too many of them have fallen through, and any party involved can flip the table at any point. | ||
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