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On October 03 2019 05:14 Ben... wrote:
I haven't seen it yet, but it sounds like Trump had a proper meltdown during a media conference today. I've been seeing it described as "unhinged". I'll have to give it a watch.
Watched some part of it. I never understand why US press is so docile still. When Trump starts his story of his 'perfect beautiful conversation', he needs to be interrupted and told that he personally stopped aid to Ukraine days before his call, and then in the call said how important the US was for Ukraine, how he feels their relationship is not reciprocal, and then asks for a favor. It's clear as day what he means. He can't get away with the ridiculous defense that he 'didn't literally said the words quid pro quo' and that the call was perfect.
I don't understand why he is allowed a platform for his rants of lies and spin.
When he says 'I think whistleblowers need to be protected, but only legitimate whistleblowers' he needs to be countered. He gets away with things so easily because they somehow still have respect for the office and let him speak freely.
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Canada3485 Posts
On October 03 2019 07:52 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2019 07:42 Ben... wrote:More details have come out about this meeting. The incompetence of this administration continues to amaze me. Apparently some of the information that the State Department handed over appears to be from Rudy Giuliani, and the rest about old debunked conspiracies from the 2016 election. Dems say State watchdog gave us 'packet of propaganda'Instead, Democrats say the packet of documents handed over by the State Department watchdog mentions former Vice President Biden, Yovanovitch and CrowdStrike, the cybersecurity firm that investigated breaches at the DNC in the lead up to the 2016 election.
"They appear to contain long-debunked theories and false statements about the former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine and one of President Trump’s political opponents," said Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.), whose staff attended the briefing.
“These documents provide further evidence of a concerted, external effort to conduct a disinformation campaign against a career U.S ambassador, who has been the subject of baseless attacks, including by the President himself," he added.
It's unclear where the documents came from, though Democrats quickly made clear after the briefing that they suspect Rudy Giuliani, Trump's personal attorney, was involved.
A Democratic source familiar with the briefing said that the material appeared to come from the White House.
"Those folders contained notes from interviews that took place at Rudy Giuliani’s NYC office with various Ukrainians about debunked conspiracies related to Ukraine. This was just another attempt by the White House to peddle Rudy Giuliana conspiracy theories," the source added. Who do they think they are fooling when they pull stuff like this? Also announced today were apparently a bunch of new US tariffs on goods from Europe. This is on the same day US markets dropped drastically on fears of a manufacturing slowdown. I would imagine the EU will counter these tariffs, which would cause more damage. I continue to not understand why they keep throwing more and more tariffs on everything. These Tariffs are different tho that its not Trump just being a dick but a WTO sanctioned move because of financial damages America suffered from the EU helping Airbus, a court case that yesterday? was given a verdict. Still, bad timing.
Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks. I must have missed the context for them. Yeah, the timing is particularly rough.
On October 03 2019 07:52 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2019 07:42 Ben... wrote:More details have come out about this meeting. The incompetence of this administration continues to amaze me. Apparently some of the information that the State Department handed over appears to be from Rudy Giuliani, and the rest about old debunked conspiracies from the 2016 election. Dems say State watchdog gave us 'packet of propaganda'Instead, Democrats say the packet of documents handed over by the State Department watchdog mentions former Vice President Biden, Yovanovitch and CrowdStrike, the cybersecurity firm that investigated breaches at the DNC in the lead up to the 2016 election.
"They appear to contain long-debunked theories and false statements about the former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine and one of President Trump’s political opponents," said Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.), whose staff attended the briefing.
“These documents provide further evidence of a concerted, external effort to conduct a disinformation campaign against a career U.S ambassador, who has been the subject of baseless attacks, including by the President himself," he added.
It's unclear where the documents came from, though Democrats quickly made clear after the briefing that they suspect Rudy Giuliani, Trump's personal attorney, was involved.
A Democratic source familiar with the briefing said that the material appeared to come from the White House.
"Those folders contained notes from interviews that took place at Rudy Giuliani’s NYC office with various Ukrainians about debunked conspiracies related to Ukraine. This was just another attempt by the White House to peddle Rudy Giuliana conspiracy theories," the source added. Who do they think they are fooling when they pull stuff like this? Also announced today were apparently a bunch of new US tariffs on goods from Europe. This is on the same day US markets dropped drastically on fears of a manufacturing slowdown. I would imagine the EU will counter these tariffs, which would cause more damage. I continue to not understand why they keep throwing more and more tariffs on everything. My theory is that the tariffs are being used as a way to surge the markets at an opportune time. Imagine if Trump cancelled ALL tariffs tomorrow. The stock market would go through the roof because we are basically used to operating under these stupid conditions. If all of those magically went away, perhaps right before the general election, with Trump declaring "mission accomplished! no need for tariffs anymore!", it would make him look amazing. So that's likely his plan. Declare victory without actually getting anything, markets go crazy, "look how dank my economy is lol" and hope he wins.
Yes, I've seen other folks mention this type of idea too. In a normal world it would be a far-fetched idea because it would be clear to most people/the media what was going on and they wouldn't fall for it, but with how things are going they could do something like this and a non-trivial portion of the population would buy into this move and half of the NYT editorial page would champion it as being a genius ploy on the admin's behalf.
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You need to remember that similiar verdict was (some time ago) handed to USA in relation to Boeing. Both sides are playing the same game here.
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On October 03 2019 07:52 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2019 07:42 Ben... wrote:More details have come out about this meeting. The incompetence of this administration continues to amaze me. Apparently some of the information that the State Department handed over appears to be from Rudy Giuliani, and the rest about old debunked conspiracies from the 2016 election. Dems say State watchdog gave us 'packet of propaganda'Instead, Democrats say the packet of documents handed over by the State Department watchdog mentions former Vice President Biden, Yovanovitch and CrowdStrike, the cybersecurity firm that investigated breaches at the DNC in the lead up to the 2016 election.
"They appear to contain long-debunked theories and false statements about the former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine and one of President Trump’s political opponents," said Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.), whose staff attended the briefing.
“These documents provide further evidence of a concerted, external effort to conduct a disinformation campaign against a career U.S ambassador, who has been the subject of baseless attacks, including by the President himself," he added.
It's unclear where the documents came from, though Democrats quickly made clear after the briefing that they suspect Rudy Giuliani, Trump's personal attorney, was involved.
A Democratic source familiar with the briefing said that the material appeared to come from the White House.
"Those folders contained notes from interviews that took place at Rudy Giuliani’s NYC office with various Ukrainians about debunked conspiracies related to Ukraine. This was just another attempt by the White House to peddle Rudy Giuliana conspiracy theories," the source added. Who do they think they are fooling when they pull stuff like this? Also announced today were apparently a bunch of new US tariffs on goods from Europe. This is on the same day US markets dropped drastically on fears of a manufacturing slowdown. I would imagine the EU will counter these tariffs, which would cause more damage. I continue to not understand why they keep throwing more and more tariffs on everything. My theory is that the tariffs are being used as a way to surge the markets at an opportune time. Imagine if Trump cancelled ALL tariffs tomorrow. The stock market would go through the roof because we are basically used to operating under these stupid conditions. If all of those magically went away, perhaps right before the general election, with Trump declaring "mission accomplished! no need for tariffs anymore!", it would make him look amazing. So that's likely his plan. Declare victory without actually getting anything, markets go crazy, "look how dank my economy is lol" and hope he wins.
Krugman explains the support to austerity politics the same way: they hurt the economy like hell, and when you stop them things start to go better and you can yell "mission accomplished!" He compares it to hitting your own head with a baseball bat and claim it's a great idea because it stops hurting when you stop.
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On October 03 2019 16:17 Silvanel wrote:
You need to remember that similiar verdict was (some time ago) handed to USA in relation to Boeing. Both sides are playing the same game here.
Not yet, it is going to be judged in a few months. It is to be noted that the us is blocking all nominations to the appeal court, which means starting from the next resignation scheduled in a few months, no appeals will be possible as the amount of judges will be under the threshold. Another shitty move from this US administration, as is already the case with the Federal Election Commission which cannot function anymore, as they are down to 2 members when the quorum is 3.
Same with all the "acting" people in the admin.
Trump & Co are just using every possible loophole to shut down institutions that could be damageable to their dealings. Lawless.
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On October 03 2019 07:52 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2019 07:42 Ben... wrote:More details have come out about this meeting. The incompetence of this administration continues to amaze me. Apparently some of the information that the State Department handed over appears to be from Rudy Giuliani, and the rest about old debunked conspiracies from the 2016 election. Dems say State watchdog gave us 'packet of propaganda'Instead, Democrats say the packet of documents handed over by the State Department watchdog mentions former Vice President Biden, Yovanovitch and CrowdStrike, the cybersecurity firm that investigated breaches at the DNC in the lead up to the 2016 election.
"They appear to contain long-debunked theories and false statements about the former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine and one of President Trump’s political opponents," said Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.), whose staff attended the briefing.
“These documents provide further evidence of a concerted, external effort to conduct a disinformation campaign against a career U.S ambassador, who has been the subject of baseless attacks, including by the President himself," he added.
It's unclear where the documents came from, though Democrats quickly made clear after the briefing that they suspect Rudy Giuliani, Trump's personal attorney, was involved.
A Democratic source familiar with the briefing said that the material appeared to come from the White House.
"Those folders contained notes from interviews that took place at Rudy Giuliani’s NYC office with various Ukrainians about debunked conspiracies related to Ukraine. This was just another attempt by the White House to peddle Rudy Giuliana conspiracy theories," the source added. Who do they think they are fooling when they pull stuff like this? Also announced today were apparently a bunch of new US tariffs on goods from Europe. This is on the same day US markets dropped drastically on fears of a manufacturing slowdown. I would imagine the EU will counter these tariffs, which would cause more damage. I continue to not understand why they keep throwing more and more tariffs on everything. These Tariffs are different tho that its not Trump just being a dick but a WTO sanctioned move because of financial damages America suffered from the EU helping Airbus, a court case that yesterday? was given a verdict. Still, bad timing.
Yes but it's incredibly hypocritical. The US subsidises Boeing as well. The only difference being that the case against the US is still pending. As usual for Trump it's simply an excuse to increase tariffs.
Edit: didn't see that others already said the same thing. My bad.
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It would seem that nothing is getting through the sludge that is his brain. He's just giving congress ammunition to impeach him. Is this the normal now? Are people, specifically his base, just gonna continue to eat this up?
President Trump now says China should investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter.
Trump brought up China, just days before restarting trade talks with Beijing, while answering questions about his call with his Ukrainian counterpart and what specifically he hoped Ukraine would do about the Biden family.
"If they were honest about it, they'd start a major investigation into Bidens," Trump said. "It's a very simple answer ... And by the way, likewise, China should start an investigation into the Bidens because what happened in China is just about as bad as Ukraine."
Source
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It’s getting worse by the day; Rep. McCarthy, one of Trump’s staunchest congressional allies, revealed in interviews yesterday that he had not read the “transcript” of Trump’s call with Zelensky, even though he was claiming that nothing in said “transcript” implicated an impeachable offense. The cracks are showing wider and wider.
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idk, we went through the exact same thing with the Mueller report vis a vis ‘i didn’t read it but i can still speak with expertise on the subject.’
loud & proud ignorance is not a disqualifying trait if history is a teacher.
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I don’t think the Mueller Report is comparable with what is at hand now, the contours of the inquiry are far more free floating and less beholden to a process that can be frustrated by Trump lovers. But yes, practically everything that happens now has to overcome the worsening shitshow complacency that has taken hold since the ‘16 election.
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if xdaunt is any metric it’s pretty clear that anything these days can only be viewed through a partisan lens
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This reminds me of trump claiming that he could murder someone and get away with it. It seems like that is really the case. His base could first ask what the victim did and then find any way possible to convince themselves that trump acted in self defense and that the victim deserved it. It's a weird time to see this kind of dissonance in the 21st century.
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Northern Ireland26359 Posts
On October 04 2019 04:46 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
This reminds me of trump claiming that he could murder someone and get away with it. It seems like that is really the case. His base could first ask what the victim did and then find any way possible to convince themselves that trump acted in self defense and that the victim deserved it. It's a weird time to see this kind of dissonance in the 21st century.
Frustrating yes, is it particularly weird?
If anything a media sphere where people can just select their own news is as natural time for this to occur than any other period in our history.
It is getting beyond preposterous though, I think the only thing that would break the spell is Trump getting caught in a secret recording outright stating his contempt for the everyman and how he’s happy to fuck them.
Which honestly wouldn’t surprise me if it happened.
Any of his other failings in meeting the needs of his base are always blamed on x boogeyman, so I don’t see that myopic section of his base ever turning otherwise.
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On October 04 2019 05:42 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2019 04:46 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
This reminds me of trump claiming that he could murder someone and get away with it. It seems like that is really the case. His base could first ask what the victim did and then find any way possible to convince themselves that trump acted in self defense and that the victim deserved it. It's a weird time to see this kind of dissonance in the 21st century. Frustrating yes, is it particularly weird? If anything a media sphere where people can just select their own news is as natural time for this to occur than any other period in our history. It is getting beyond preposterous though, I think the only thing that would break the spell is Trump getting caught in a secret recording outright stating his contempt for the everyman and how he’s happy to fuck them. Which honestly wouldn’t surprise me if it happened. Any of his other failings in meeting the needs of his base are always blamed on x boogeyman, so I don’t see that myopic section of his base ever turning otherwise. Such a recording would simply not be shown to the people in that media sphere or if they saw it they would say it's fake.
Remember, these people still don't even know what is in the Mueller file because no one told them and they didn't go and look at it themselves. And why should they, someone already told them it exonerated Trump.
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Kevin McCarthy wrote a letter to Pelosi demanding she suspend the impeachment inquiry until 'rules and procedures are established' and he has answers to a list of questions, demanding the presidents counsel has a right to cross examine witnesses etc.
Pelosi's repsonse is pretty much 'lol no':
Dear Leader McCarthy,
As Members of Congress, we take a solemn oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
The existing rules of the House provide House Committees with full authority to conduct investigations for all matters under their jurisdiction, including impeachment investigations. There is no requirement under the Constitution, under House Rules, or House precedent that the whole House vote before proceeding with an impeachment inquiry.
As you know, our Founders were specifically intent on ensuring that foreign entities did not undermine the integrity of our elections. I received your letter this morning shortly after the world witnessed President Trump on national television asking yet another foreign power to interfere in the upcoming 2020 elections. We hope you and other Republicans share our commitment to following the facts, upholding the Constitution, protecting our national security, and defending the integrity of our elections at such a serious moment in our nation’s history.
best regards,
NANCY PELOSI
Speaker of the House
With Pence also being involved in the mess she must be feeling that third in line position right now.
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Man, an impeachment turned into a house cleaning that leads to a very short Pelosi presidency would be...astounding. What was that show? Designated Survivor? Shit is depressingly hilarious.
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Northern Ireland26359 Posts
On October 04 2019 05:46 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2019 05:42 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 04 2019 04:46 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
This reminds me of trump claiming that he could murder someone and get away with it. It seems like that is really the case. His base could first ask what the victim did and then find any way possible to convince themselves that trump acted in self defense and that the victim deserved it. It's a weird time to see this kind of dissonance in the 21st century. Frustrating yes, is it particularly weird? If anything a media sphere where people can just select their own news is as natural time for this to occur than any other period in our history. It is getting beyond preposterous though, I think the only thing that would break the spell is Trump getting caught in a secret recording outright stating his contempt for the everyman and how he’s happy to fuck them. Which honestly wouldn’t surprise me if it happened. Any of his other failings in meeting the needs of his base are always blamed on x boogeyman, so I don’t see that myopic section of his base ever turning otherwise. Such a recording would simply not be shown to the people in that media sphere or if they saw it they would say it's fake. Remember, these people still don't even know what is in the Mueller file because no one told them and they didn't go and look at it themselves. And why should they, someone already told them it exonerated Trump.
Indeed, although I still think at least to some degree such a hypothetical recording would punch through to some people.
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Some of Pelosi’s messaging is off-base or out of touch, but that letter is well drafted.
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On October 04 2019 06:06 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Kevin McCarthy wrote a letter to Pelosi demanding she suspend the impeachment inquiry until 'rules and procedures are established' and he has answers to a list of questions, demanding the presidents counsel has a right to cross examine witnesses etc. Pelosi's repsonse is pretty much 'lol no': Show nested quote +Dear Leader McCarthy,
As Members of Congress, we take a solemn oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
The existing rules of the House provide House Committees with full authority to conduct investigations for all matters under their jurisdiction, including impeachment investigations. There is no requirement under the Constitution, under House Rules, or House precedent that the whole House vote before proceeding with an impeachment inquiry.
As you know, our Founders were specifically intent on ensuring that foreign entities did not undermine the integrity of our elections. I received your letter this morning shortly after the world witnessed President Trump on national television asking yet another foreign power to interfere in the upcoming 2020 elections. We hope you and other Republicans share our commitment to following the facts, upholding the Constitution, protecting our national security, and defending the integrity of our elections at such a serious moment in our nation’s history.
best regards,
NANCY PELOSI
Speaker of the House With Pence also being involved in the mess she must be feeling that third in line position right now.
There is no chance shes dumb enough to entertain Pence being impeached from office as well even in her wildest dreams. Taking trump down will be the pelt on the wall to solidify her legacy and ensure she stays the senior chief for the democratic party for the rest of her life. Conquest is the best revenge and having Pence as a lame-duck will ensure an easy victory in the next presidential and midterms.
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EPT
