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On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester.
You are just judging from a western perspective. It's really bad but whether it's unforgivable or not depends on the society.
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On February 16 2013 13:51 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
Also LoveRip said he would never return to progaming, but he got a second chance on MVP. He's finale.
Oh shit I had no idea they were the same person o_o;
OT: yeah I don't think the guy should be let back into progaming...
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On February 16 2013 13:51 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
Sickening.
Also LoveRip said he would never return to progaming, but he got a second chance on MVP. He's finale.
WTF? Finale is LoveRip? Wow I never noticed that
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On February 16 2013 14:43 Cubu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester. You are just judging from a western perspective. It's really bad but whether it's unforgivable or not depends on the society.
Reform from past behaviour is very possible, I do not deny that Gundam can/could change his ways and not be a child molester.
I meant it is unforgivable for him to be allowed gather a group of young boys/teenagers (15-20+)again after he sexually molested LoveRip. Gundam molested LoveRip (aged 15 at the time) while they were in Werra clan.
Name a reasonable, rational society on earth that condones the molestation of their children by Older men who supervise them.
Western perspective or not, Gundam is a child molester/sexual predator.
How does no one else see eye-to-eye with me on this? Have I gone crazy?
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On February 16 2013 14:43 Cubu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester. You are just judging from a western perspective
I wouldn't call it an exclusively western perspective.
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On February 16 2013 14:43 Cubu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester. You are just judging from a western perspective. It's really bad but whether it's unforgivable or not depends on the society.
not that simple, the way korean proteams work do not leave much room to take a risk. it is not just simple interactive witha former moloster, its living with a moloster.
I wonder families of underage players are aware of this issue
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On February 16 2013 15:44 GhoSt[shield] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 14:43 Cubu wrote:On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester. You are just judging from a western perspective. It's really bad but whether it's unforgivable or not depends on the society. Reform from past behaviour is very possible, I do not deny that Gundam can/could change his ways and not be a child molester. I meant it is unforgivable for him to be allowed gather a group of young boys/teenagers (15-20+)again after he sexually molested LoveRip. Gundam molested LoveRip (aged 15 at the time) while they were in Werra clan. Name a reasonable, rational society on earth that condones the molestation of their children by Older men who supervise them. Western perspective or not, Gundam is a child molester/sexual predator. How does no one else see eye-to-eye with me on this? Have I gone crazy?
...Ancient Greece, Persia, modern-day Afghanistan... young boys were often preferred for sex in many cultures... Reasonable/rational are extremely subjective words so they are basically useless descriptors in this regard. Plenty of places still think 15 is an acceptable age to get married.
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So people are saying he needs to reform "away from e-sports" and that we "shouldn't let him back into e-sports". WeRRa disbanded a long-ass time ago now. I'm not sure what most of you would consider "long enough". But I'm sure most of you aren't experts in this sort of behaviour, and I don't think Team Liquid forum members can or should decide anything related to the situation.
I don't know anything about this idea of reset syndrome but if the point is to erase past misdeeds by starting over then that kind of implies he knows he was wrong and wants to do better the second time around.
It was a bizarre and disturbing incident, and someone needs to keep tabs on the situation. But if former members of WeRRa make up most of the clan, and former members of WeRRa are probably the most likely to know why WeRRa disbanded, then I don't know what anyone could say or do.
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what does forgiveness have to do with the idea that he perhaps shouldnt be employed around kids and teenagers?
The latter is just common sense.
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On February 17 2013 01:05 1Dhalism wrote:
what does forgiveness have to do with the idea that he perhaps shouldnt be employed around kids and teenagers?
The latter is just common sense.
He's in a position of quasi-authority again as a prominent member of a group that has financial records. But I don't think there is any sense in which we can say he is employed as that implies an employer, who was either ignorant of what he had allegedly done or didn't care.
Whether it's "right" or "wrong" for him to be involved with video games again isn't something I would leave up to people who don't know him or what has happened in the intervening years. That's all. My or your idea of "common sense" is probably just based around a stereotype.
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It's like letting a pedo work in Disney land.
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On February 17 2013 01:18 S_SienZ wrote:
It's like letting a pedo work in Disney land.
No, because members of a team depend on their coach to a degree, children in Disneyland do not depend on the staff.
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On February 17 2013 01:23 Dagobert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 01:18 S_SienZ wrote:
It's like letting a pedo work in Disney land. No, because members of a team depend on their coach to a degree, children in Disneyland do not depend on the staff.
Children in Disneyland also don't decide which staff to work with, though. It's possible that newer members of the clan have no idea about the history of WeRRa, but what about the people who returned? I don't think it would be responsible at this point to just say they were groomed and can't speak for themselves.
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I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that.
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Well, the statement finale made after he left WeRRa was really heartbreaking.. I think Gundam deserves a second chance, but someone should really keep an eye on him.
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On February 17 2013 01:28 Salazarz wrote:
I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that.
Right.....as someone from Germany Id figure you wouldnt of had such a naive view on things. Sure teamliquid doesnt hand out punishment but to think everyone can be reformed and let back into society is the dumbest thing ive ever heard, Im sure someone like Hitler or Gengis Khan could of be reformed right? Sometimes you either crate a mad dog or you kill it. You dont let it back out into the pastures to hunt new prey.
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On February 17 2013 01:28 Salazarz wrote:
I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that.
Straw man.
I mean really, there's a difference between that and being a coach on a Korean pro-team... Anyone who's watched some of the documentaries, read a few interviews or even watched simple fan made tours of pro-houses should know how close these people are. They are practically family. They rely heavily on their coach for everything, who becomes almost like a father figure to these kids.
It's a massive position of POWER over these kids, which many people seem to miss. Some of these guys surely dream heavily making it in the scene, and they need the team to do it. Understand where I'm going with this?
Now, I'm not saying he is going to abuse with certainty, but considering his past crimes, why risk it? Surely he can find some other line of work that doesn't involve being in charge of bunch of young teenagers?
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no one is arguing that he should not retun to esports, we are just sayign he should not be in charge of minors. more precisly, at very least he should get a very informed concent from their parents. I very doubtfull that he or the rest of the team had been clear on this issue with legal guardians of their players.
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risk>reward
simple. u risk more by letting him back in than reaping whatever benefits he can contribute.
so it's better not to
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EPT
