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On May 25 2011 02:18 Omnipresent wrote:Assuming it's pretty bad, my proposal would be to enforce litter laws, increase fines if you need to, and increase the number of trash cans/places to put cigarettes. They don't have to be open ashtrays, something like this would be fine. + Show Spoiler +These don't even smell and have a low profile, so they're not unsightly. Hell, you could even impose a small tobacco tax to pay for them. That's a reasonable solution. I would be ok with that if it works. But I do have some doubts. Do you think people really will use the ashtrays? Don't you think we might end up needing way too many ashtrays that might end up being a new problem? The solution could work. But I have the impression that when you compare both solutions side by side (smoking ban vs ashtrays). And compare pros vs cons. I still have the impression that smoking ban is more advantageous. Tho I admit I'd need to know NYC better to be more certain.
People litter because there's nowhere to put their trash, not because they're malicious. I wasn't thinking malicious as much as I was thinking lazy 
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On May 25 2011 02:27 BroodjeBaller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:23 ComaDose wrote:On May 25 2011 02:21 JinDesu wrote:On May 25 2011 02:20 ComaDose wrote:Asking to use a hot chicks lighter even when you have your own is probably the best way to initiate conversation with a girl that shares a habit with you. How will this affect the dating scene in NYC? + Show Spoiler +this thread is getting dull. courtesy people, errbody just be courteous On May 25 2011 00:07 Clearout wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 00:04 ComaDose wrote:
To people saying smoking is useless:
So is ice cream. It feels good, infinitely more so when you are addicted to nicotine.
I would compare it to the feeling you get chugging a tall glass of water when you are extremely thirsty. But you can get it every couple hours.
Manages stress and helps kill time. Get more breaks at work ;p.
Negatives? Yeah kills you, bad breath, yellow teeth aging quicker...
But go eat another cheese burger ill have a king size stick of cancer and endorphins.
And we might both get hit by a car tomorrow.
Should people be subjected to second hand smoke? No.
A university campus is crowded and full of sensitive young people who can hardly remember their mothers lighting up in pizza hut after the buffet. Perhaps their bodies are more susceptible to these few parts per million in passing breaths than those people of the centuries past where there were no laws.
But these sensitive people do not enjoy the smell. My university imposed a 10m from any entrance law that is reasonable and generally unobserved. I am a courteous smoker, i smoke in smoking areas and avoid walking and smoking down busy pathways. People should be courteous but they are not and thus implementing rules to make them so is reasonable. Smoking in your car is taking the initiative to isolate yourself from those that may be offended and banning such is excessive and unnecessary.
Rules for smoking in public are reasonable. This set of rules is to strict. You have a very decent middle ground standing, which I wholesomely approve of. Life of lively to live to life of full life thx to cigarettes? thx thats nice + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/YJyfV.jpg) Tell him where to smoke You can always dazzle her with your winning personality. But she wont be allowed to loiter around to observe the show! she will be at home smoking alone in her room  Why care about girls who smoke anyway. They are disgusting ashtrays.
Hey, if she smokes, she pokes!
Serious note: it says park and beaches. Now I know a bunch of buildings have "no smoking within 20 feet" signs, but those are generally ignored. So what's stopping people from their smoking on the street? I don't see anything in the ban here about that.
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On May 25 2011 02:29 Omnipresent wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:21 VIB wrote:On May 25 2011 02:16 Serthius wrote:
We should just ban tobacco products. Let's face it - if tobacco was discovered today, there's no way you would be allowed to grow or sell that poison without ending up in prison.
It will come in time. We need to smoothly prepare instead of making a radical change. Be patient little grasshopper  It's unlikely that tobacco will ever be illegal in the US. We have an unfortunate history with prohibition, so Americans understand the effects of denying people something they want. I wouldn't be so sure. I'm not talking of a radical change like the licor ban. But something smooth that will take a few generations. Our generation already smokes way much less then the previous. The next one will smoke even less. Eventually, the economic power of tabacco fighting against prohibition will be irrelevant. And not enough people will care. It will come in time
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It's incredible the amounth of slurs thrown around in this thread, without any mod taking action. Are all mods non-smokers or do people just get away with it?
I'm sorry, but if I say "<insert minority race here> are filthy" I'll get banned, yet when someone says "smokers are disgusting ashtrays" I should feel how exactly? I get it, you don't like smoking, you think it's incredibly dangerous (which to some extent it is). Yet you have no problem indulging in other incredibly dangerous activities (by the same standards that make smoking dangerous) like drinking alcohol or driving a car.
Trust me, my second-hand smoke you breathe in the park hurts nothing like a drunk driver hitting you head-on with a pick-up truck.
P.S. I'm smoking a cig while I write this. There.
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On May 25 2011 02:31 VIB wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:18 Omnipresent wrote:Assuming it's pretty bad, my proposal would be to enforce litter laws, increase fines if you need to, and increase the number of trash cans/places to put cigarettes. They don't have to be open ashtrays, something like this would be fine. + Show Spoiler +These don't even smell and have a low profile, so they're not unsightly. Hell, you could even impose a small tobacco tax to pay for them. That's a reasonable solution. I would be ok with that if it works. But I do have some doubts. Do you think people really will use the ashtrays? Don't you think we might end up needing way too many ashtrays that might end up being a new problem? The solution could work. But I have the impression that when you compare both solutions side by side (smoking ban vs ashtrays). And compare pros vs cons. I still have the impression that smoking ban is more advantageous. Tho I admit I'd need to know NYC better to be more certain. Show nested quote +People litter because there's nowhere to put their trash, not because they're malicious. I wasn't thinking malicious as much as I was thinking lazy
I'm an occasional smoker, and have friends who smoke. I can tell you, people will use cigarette receptacles if they're nearby. A lot of people even take the time to wait until their butt is cool so they can safely throw it in a trash can, assuming no other option is available.
Preventing people from having cigarettes in the area will obviously be more effective, but it's also much more intrusive and (as I've been saying) hypocritical.
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On May 25 2011 02:39 Omnipresent wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:31 VIB wrote:On May 25 2011 02:18 Omnipresent wrote:Assuming it's pretty bad, my proposal would be to enforce litter laws, increase fines if you need to, and increase the number of trash cans/places to put cigarettes. They don't have to be open ashtrays, something like this would be fine. + Show Spoiler +These don't even smell and have a low profile, so they're not unsightly. Hell, you could even impose a small tobacco tax to pay for them. That's a reasonable solution. I would be ok with that if it works. But I do have some doubts. Do you think people really will use the ashtrays? Don't you think we might end up needing way too many ashtrays that might end up being a new problem? The solution could work. But I have the impression that when you compare both solutions side by side (smoking ban vs ashtrays). And compare pros vs cons. I still have the impression that smoking ban is more advantageous. Tho I admit I'd need to know NYC better to be more certain. People litter because there's nowhere to put their trash, not because they're malicious. I wasn't thinking malicious as much as I was thinking lazy I'm an occasional smoker, and have friends who smoke. I can tell you, people will use cigarette receptacles if they're nearby. A lot of people even take the time to wait until their butt is cool so they can safely throw it in a trash can, assuming no other option is available. Preventing people from having cigarettes in the area will obviously be more effective, but it's also much more intrusive and (as I've been saying) hypocritical.
I can tell you the opposite in my neighborhood. They just toss it, still alit. What's terrifying is that some of these people will toss them without caring if it hits someone, and since it's alit, it can hurt.
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Yet you have no problem indulging in other incredibly dangerous activities (by the same standards that make smoking dangerous) like drinking alcohol or driving a car.
Drinking alcohol in moderation has been shown to have positive effects on your health.
Driving a car while observing the rules of traffic does not create danger.
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On May 25 2011 02:39 Tudi wrote:
It's incredible the amounth of slurs thrown around in this thread, without any mod taking action. Are all mods non-smokers or do people just get away with it?
I'm sorry, but if I say "<insert minority race here> are filthy" I'll get banned, yet when someone says "smokers are disgusting ashtrays" I should feel how exactly? I get it, you don't like smoking, you think it's incredibly dangerous (which to some extent it is). Yet you have no problem indulging in other incredibly dangerous activities (by the same standards that make smoking dangerous) like drinking alcohol or driving a car.
Trust me, my second-hand smoke you breathe in the park hurts nothing like a drunk driver hitting you head-on with a pick-up truck.
P.S. I'm smoking a cig while I write this. There.
Dunno - I mean, having a few broken bones and then suing the drunk can possibly be better than getting chemo for 5-10 years.
I do agree on the "insulting" part. Just call smokers smokers.
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On May 25 2011 02:39 Tudi wrote:
It's incredible the amounth of slurs thrown around in this thread, without any mod taking action. Are all mods non-smokers or do people just get away with it?
I'm sorry, but if I say "<insert minority race here> are filthy" I'll get banned, yet when someone says "smokers are disgusting ashtrays" I should feel how exactly? I get it, you don't like smoking, you think it's incredibly dangerous (which to some extent it is). Yet you have no problem indulging in other incredibly dangerous activities (by the same standards that make smoking dangerous) like drinking alcohol or driving a car.
Trust me, my second-hand smoke you breathe in the park hurts nothing like a drunk driver hitting you head-on with a pick-up truck.
P.S. I'm smoking a cig while I write this. There.
doesn't mean it's not harmful and shouldn't be regulated.
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On May 25 2011 02:36 VIB wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:29 Omnipresent wrote:On May 25 2011 02:21 VIB wrote:On May 25 2011 02:16 Serthius wrote:
We should just ban tobacco products. Let's face it - if tobacco was discovered today, there's no way you would be allowed to grow or sell that poison without ending up in prison.
It will come in time. We need to smoothly prepare instead of making a radical change. Be patient little grasshopper It's unlikely that tobacco will ever be illegal in the US. We have an unfortunate history with prohibition, so Americans understand the effects of denying people something they want. I wouldn't be so sure. I'm not talking of a radical change like the licor ban. But something smooth that will take a few generations. Our generation already smokes way much less then the previous. The next one will smoke even less. Eventually, the economic power of tabacco fighting against prohibition will be irrelevant. And not enough people will care. It will come in time
Might make a sick comeback when healthcare becomes so good it's not a danger anymore.
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On May 25 2011 02:39 Tudi wrote:
It's incredible the amounth of slurs thrown around in this thread, without any mod taking action. Are all mods non-smokers or do people just get away with it?
I'm sorry, but if I say "<insert minority race here> are filthy" I'll get banned, yet when someone says "smokers are disgusting ashtrays" I should feel how exactly? I get it, you don't like smoking, you think it's incredibly dangerous (which to some extent it is). Yet you have no problem indulging in other incredibly dangerous activities (by the same standards that make smoking dangerous) like drinking alcohol or driving a car.
Trust me, my second-hand smoke you breathe in the park hurts nothing like a drunk driver hitting you head-on with a pick-up truck.
P.S. I'm smoking a cig while I write this. There.
Thats why drunk driving is illegal just like smoking should be.
And pls stop making assumptions about my opinion on drinking alcohol or driving a car.
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On May 25 2011 02:36 VIB wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:29 Omnipresent wrote:On May 25 2011 02:21 VIB wrote:On May 25 2011 02:16 Serthius wrote:
We should just ban tobacco products. Let's face it - if tobacco was discovered today, there's no way you would be allowed to grow or sell that poison without ending up in prison.
It will come in time. We need to smoothly prepare instead of making a radical change. Be patient little grasshopper It's unlikely that tobacco will ever be illegal in the US. We have an unfortunate history with prohibition, so Americans understand the effects of denying people something they want. I wouldn't be so sure. I'm not talking of a radical change like the licor ban. But something smooth that will take a few generations. Our generation already smokes way much less then the previous. The next one will smoke even less. Eventually, the economic power of tabacco fighting against prohibition will be irrelevant. And not enough people will care. It will come in time
I'm not so sure. A lot of people still smoke, and will continue to smoke for a very long time.
I think non-smokers generally misunderstand the situation. They think, "if people only knew how bad tobacco is for them, they'd never get hooked in the first place." Sure, that will stop a lot of people from ever trying tobacco. Telling people the facts is also the right thing to do, regardless of whether it prevents people from smoking.
I'm not addicted. I was told the risks from a very young age. I know that even the small amount I smoke will probably kill me if I continue. But I still smoke . For people who enjoy it, the benefits outweigh the risks. Author Christopher Hitchens is currently dieing from lung cancer. When asked if he would go back and never start smoking, he says no.
The odds of tobacco becoming so unpopular that it can be outlawed without serious reprisal is virtually zero.
We should discourage smoking, especially to children, but adults should have the right.
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On May 25 2011 02:44 Cyba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:36 VIB wrote:On May 25 2011 02:29 Omnipresent wrote:On May 25 2011 02:21 VIB wrote:On May 25 2011 02:16 Serthius wrote:
We should just ban tobacco products. Let's face it - if tobacco was discovered today, there's no way you would be allowed to grow or sell that poison without ending up in prison.
It will come in time. We need to smoothly prepare instead of making a radical change. Be patient little grasshopper It's unlikely that tobacco will ever be illegal in the US. We have an unfortunate history with prohibition, so Americans understand the effects of denying people something they want. I wouldn't be so sure. I'm not talking of a radical change like the licor ban. But something smooth that will take a few generations. Our generation already smokes way much less then the previous. The next one will smoke even less. Eventually, the economic power of tabacco fighting against prohibition will be irrelevant. And not enough people will care. It will come in time Might make a sick comeback when healthcare becomes so good it's not a danger anymore.
people aren't developing vaccines and treatments so some joe can inject himself with 20 substances but know he'll be still alive because of doctors.
just because we know how to take a bullet out of your arm without you dying doesn’t mean you can start shooting yourself or others for the thrill of it.
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This Ban shows perfectly whats wrong with western world, people want their politicans and policemen to control what they do, congratulations.
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On May 25 2011 02:47 BroodjeBaller wrote:
Thats why drunk driving is illegal just like smoking should be.
And pls stop making assumptions about my opinion on drinking alcohol or driving a car.
As long as you automatically assume "all smokers should be banned and smoking should be illegal" based on your personal preference towards smoking, I will assume all I want, thank you very much. I don't like people who relieve sexual tension by going to prostitutes, yet my personal preference has nothing to do with how prostitution is regulated in each country.
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On May 25 2011 02:39 Tudi wrote:
It's incredible the amounth of slurs thrown around in this thread, without any mod taking action. Are all mods non-smokers or do people just get away with it?
I'm sorry, but if I say "<insert minority race here> are filthy" I'll get banned, yet when someone says "smokers are disgusting ashtrays" I should feel how exactly? I get it, you don't like smoking, you think it's incredibly dangerous (which to some extent it is). Yet you have no problem indulging in other incredibly dangerous activities (by the same standards that make smoking dangerous) like drinking alcohol or driving a car.
Trust me, my second-hand smoke you breathe in the park hurts nothing like a drunk driver hitting you head-on with a pick-up truck.
P.S. I'm smoking a cig while I write this. There.
You're making too much of this. Smoking isn't like being a racial/ethnic/religious minority. It's a clear choice.
Also, a lot of people have received temp bans for their comments in this thread. It doesn't happen immediately, but it'll happen.
I'm a smoker, and I think the moderation in this thread is fine. Posters of most of the disgusting remarks have already been issued bans. If you're upset about this, go to the "Tobacco Smoking Thread." Just about ever page has a long post about how awful smoking is, and how awful/disgusting smokers are. It's essentially like posting negative comments about someone in a fan club thread, only it's about a product instead of a person.
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On May 25 2011 02:16 Serthius wrote:
We should just ban tobacco products. Let's face it - if tobacco was discovered today, there's no way you would be allowed to grow or sell that poison without ending up in prison.
Rofl.
The fact that it would happen is proof enough something's terribly, terribly wrong with the modern world.
If I want to poison myself than nobody in the whole wide world should have the right to interfere with that as long as I don't affect other people in the process. My choice, my consequences.
Ban drugs, booze, smoking etc = socialist horseshit.
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On May 25 2011 03:02 4lko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:16 Serthius wrote:
We should just ban tobacco products. Let's face it - if tobacco was discovered today, there's no way you would be allowed to grow or sell that poison without ending up in prison.
Rofl. The fact that it would happen is proof enough something's terribly, terribly wrong with the modern world. If I want to poison myself than nobody in the whole wide world should have the right to interfere with that as long as I don't affect other people in the process. My choice, my consequences. Ban drugs, booze, smoking etc = socialist horseshit.
Saying "if I want to poison myself" is getting quite close to "if I want to hurt myself" or "if I want to kill myself"
There's a good precedence of that being frowned upon here.
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On May 25 2011 03:02 Omnipresent wrote:
You're making too much of this. Smoking isn't like being a racial/ethnic/religious minority. It's a clear choice.
Also, a lot of people have received temp bans for their comments in this thread. It doesn't happen immediately, but it'll happen.
I'm a smoker, and I think the moderation in this thread is fine. Posters of most of the disgusting remarks have already been issued bans. If you're upset about this, go to the "Tobacco Smoking Thread." Just about ever page has a long post about how awful smoking is, and how awful/disgusting smokers are. It's essentially like posting negative comments about someone in a fan club thread, only it's about a product instead of a person.
It's an insult aimed at a minority. Regardless if the minority is based on race, a hobby, a profession, a religion or sex it's still an insult. I for one am growing a bit tired to be treated like an outcast just because I have this one vice that I use for social interaction/relaxation (I don't drink, I don't whore, I don't gamble, I don't do fast-food, I don't pee in public. May I please have this one bad addiction in my life, pretty please?).
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On May 25 2011 03:05 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 03:02 4lko wrote:On May 25 2011 02:16 Serthius wrote:
We should just ban tobacco products. Let's face it - if tobacco was discovered today, there's no way you would be allowed to grow or sell that poison without ending up in prison.
Rofl. The fact that it would happen is proof enough something's terribly, terribly wrong with the modern world. If I want to poison myself than nobody in the whole wide world should have the right to interfere with that as long as I don't affect other people in the process. My choice, my consequences. Ban drugs, booze, smoking etc = socialist horseshit. Saying "if I want to poison myself" is getting quite close to "if I want to hurt myself" or "if I want to kill myself" There's a good precedence of that being frowned upon here.
You ought to have the right to kill yourself if you want to, but that's not the point.
A better way of saying "if i want to poison myself," would be "I'm an adult, and I've weighed the costs and benefits of smoking. I decided that the benefits outweigh the risks, even though that means a shorter life."
That should be your right.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.belson.com/images/csocr-M.jpg)
