On January 06 2011 16:27 Scruffy wrote: This is exactly what I'm talking about. You think the rich, cigar smoking board rooms will take over the world, left unchecked. It obviously has the be a balance between the two.
Your words, not mine. I was simply telling you a basic fact since you are extremely confused. You spoke as if the balance of power is between the general public and the government, it's not. If the federal government ceased to exist it would not be random citizens in control, it would be major corporations. That's not an opinion, that is plain fact.
How is what I said racist?
You claimed that black people vote for Democrats so that they can sit around while getting paid. That is racist, whether you realize it or not.
I know liberals throw around the word "racist" everytime they start to lose an argument (which is quite often, as this thread shows), but please, spare me from your rhetoric.
You have some nerve claiming that you're winning an argument when you weren't even able to respond to the challenges I made to your last post. You stated something racist so I referred to it as racist, it's as simple as that. You have only yourself to blame for believing in such vile, prejudiced nonsense.
Its not just black people, its all kinds of people. I'm just saying that because 97% of blacks voted for Obama. How come whites don't vote that race proportionate? Makes you think.
Maybe because black people have historically been treated terribly in the United States and this was their first chance to ever elect a black president. That and the fact that the Republican Party abandoned all hope of ever gaining black support with the southern strategy.
The whole argument is moot for the most part though. Most liberals seem to think that humans get their rights from government and not from God/allah/whatever you believe in (Atheismo, lol Futurama reference).
Another baseless assertion, like everything else you post. And how would that make the argument moot? That's totally irrelevant.
That way the MSM would be 100% liberal.
Here, go educate yourself:
/braces for "LOLOL NOAM CHOMSKY? HES SO FAR LEFT"!
On January 07 2011 01:08 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 06 2011 12:51 Haemonculus wrote: And then there's the flawed notion that Socialism is the big scary terrible horrible awful no good very bad doom-of-the-country in the first place.
Right wingers policy are always designed for an elite. Therefore, they need to scare people so that even people who don't have any interest (98% of the population) vote for them. We had exactly the same with Sarkozy, except that the target is not "socialism" but immigrants. French racism is generated by our governments and our medias so that people vote for policies which fuck them in the ass for the benefit of banks, corporations and their shareholders. But oh, folks, the most important is that we kick arabs out of here, right?
This ideological bullcrap about "socialism" in US is just hilarious. Obama is everything in the world but a socialist. But old good irrational ignorant fear of the "red" is what keep Republican going since 50 years, no reason to stop now even if it doesn't make any sense. Especially when you have brainless zombie army such as Fox News as mainstream medias.
So obviously it would be better if Fox News didn't exist, right? That way the MSM would be 100% liberal. The main reason Fox News smashes the others in rating because its all conservatives have to watch that isn't absurdly liberal. If you think the fear of communism is all that keeps the conservative movement going, then you obviously know nothing of American politics.
If the only media which you don't find "liberal" is the most disgusting and obscene propagandist shit in the universe, there MAY be a reason. Try to find something else than the conspiracy.
Everytime I watch a minute of Fox News I have nausea and disgust towards humanity. The only thing I have seen which is as disgusting, as manipulative and as fascist than Fox News is totalitarian countries propaganda.
Irrational fears and misinformation is what keeps people voting for republicans. Because there is no reason for someone rationnal who is not a millionaire to vote for policies which sacrify everything to the interest of a few.
It is still the best healthcare system in the world though. The quality of care, the quality of medication, the variety of doctors and medicines available, and of course the wait times for surgeries and procedures are phenomenal and unobtainable through a gov't health care system.
I'm just looking to dispute this claim - numerous by-country rankings often have the United States ranked near the bottom of OECD countries. Unfortunately, being inefficient and being low in quality often go hand-in-hand with healthcare, as because it is inefficient, many people are deprived of it, thus meaning many people aren't being provided for at all. Not being provided for at all implies low quality. You can also dispute this claim by looking at figures such as life expectancy and similar health-related factors, though I could see the arguments against this being valid (American's with "fast-lane behavior".)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHO's_ranking_of_health_care_systems Granted, this is outdated, however, health care costs since have only risen, and I would guess that quality has stayed relatively equivalent since that years totals. While I understand the method of ranking by the WHO is debatable - i've seen other rankings that have only supported the WHO's conclusions - The united states has a bad health care system. I find it hard to argue against it. Claims that reform will remove quality is your senator taking campaign contributions to fear monger the population.
On January 06 2011 16:27 Scruffy wrote: This is exactly what I'm talking about. You think the rich, cigar smoking board rooms will take over the world, left unchecked. It obviously has the be a balance between the two.
Your words, not mine. I was simply telling you a basic fact since you are extremely confused. You spoke as if the balance of power is between the general public and the government, it's not. If the federal government ceased to exist it would not be random citizens in control, it would be major corporations. That's not an opinion, that is plain fact.
I know liberals throw around the word "racist" everytime they start to lose an argument (which is quite often, as this thread shows), but please, spare me from your rhetoric.
You have some nerve claiming that you're winning an argument when you weren't even able to respond to the challenges I made to your last post. You stated something racist so I referred to it as racist, it's as simple as that. You have only yourself to blame for believing in such vile, prejudiced nonsense.
Its not just black people, its all kinds of people. I'm just saying that because 97% of blacks voted for Obama. How come whites don't vote that race proportionate? Makes you think.
Maybe because black people have historically been treated terribly in the United States and this was their first chance to ever elect a black president. That and the fact that the Republican Party abandoned all hope of ever gaining black support with the southern strategy.
The whole argument is moot for the most part though. Most liberals seem to think that humans get their rights from government and not from God/allah/whatever you believe in (Atheismo, lol Futurama reference).
Another baseless assertion, like everything else you post. And how would that make the argument moot? That's totally irrelevant.
/braces for "LOLOL NOAM CHOMSKY? HES SO FAR LEFT"!
I said there needed to be a balance between powerful corporations and a power-grabbing government. Did you even read what I wrote? Also, I wouldn't consider Noam Chomsky an "education". I have actually seen many documentaries with his speeches/work. I don't think he's totally wrong, but we obviously have some pretty big divisions.
Me telling the truth that there are tons of people, of all races, that recieve tons of govt benefits for free basically does not make me racist. Or maybe it does...?
Is anyone else a little bewildered and disarmed at how genuinely difficult it has become to tell nowadays if someone is a totally serious right-winger or an over-the-top transparent troll? Seriously, you just can't tell anymore. I imagine this must be even harder for the non-Americans who are not used to the brow-beating and mudslinging of American politics.
what started as an attempt to have a reasonable political discussion has deteriorated into a conservative/liberal bashing party with assorted insults to Obama the tea party and a supposedly dumb conservative group at large
On January 07 2011 02:01 Krigwin wrote: Is anyone else a little bewildered and disarmed at how genuinely difficult it has become to tell nowadays if someone is a totally serious right-winger or an over-the-top transparent troll? Seriously, you just can't tell anymore. I imagine this must be even harder for the non-Americans who are not used to the brow-beating and mudslinging of American politics.
Krigwin, I have told you this before I think, and it may be a little hard to swallow but.... believe it or not, there are people out in the world that think differently than you. I'm gonna give that a few minutes to sink in.
I could easily call liberals "trolls", but its pointless, ignorant, and beside the point.
The People get the government they deserve. I wonder, whether Republicans will be able to accomplish anything, or will they get stuck as Democrats did.
Again you're completely unable to defend the points which I challenged. You may as well just say "I give up" instead of responding at all.
On January 07 2011 01:53 Scruffy wrote: I said there needed to be a balance between powerful corporations and a power-grabbing government. Did you even read what I wrote?
No, this is what you said:
So basically, what I'm saying is....make government smaller. The people will make things right (if we can/deserve to), not the government.
I have actually seen many documentaries with his speeches/work. I don't think he's totally wrong, but we obviously have some pretty big divisions.
Then you should know that the ridiculous notion of a liberal media that you asserted earlier is totally false.
Me telling the truth that there are tons of people, of all races, that recieve tons of govt benefits for free basically does not make me racist. Or maybe it does...?
No, this is what you said:
Do you really think African-American's poverty demographics have shifted in the past 50 years? They have probably gotten worse. Its almost like the Dems want to tell them (although more covertly, obviously) "Hey, guess what guys, vote us in, and we will pay you to not work!" Pretty sweet deal if you can get it I guess.
On January 07 2011 02:01 Krigwin wrote: Is anyone else a little bewildered and disarmed at how genuinely difficult it has become to tell nowadays if someone is a totally serious right-winger or an over-the-top transparent troll? Seriously, you just can't tell anymore. I imagine this must be even harder for the non-Americans who are not used to the brow-beating and mudslinging of American politics.
That's true, but sadly I think all of these people are serious.
I don't get why there isn't some sort of way to opt out of things like social security or welfare, in exchange for not having to pay taxes for it. So many people get so riled up about welfare programs, if there was a system like this they'd have no reason to complain since they would have the right to chose whether they'd like welfare in case they ever need it or whether they'd like to take the risk in exchange for less taxes.
I bet that a lot of lower class inexplicably right wing people wouldn't opt out.
Also to people saying Obama is a socialist, I wish there was but a grain of truth in such statements.
On January 07 2011 02:01 Krigwin wrote: Is anyone else a little bewildered and disarmed at how genuinely difficult it has become to tell nowadays if someone is a totally serious right-winger or an over-the-top transparent troll? Seriously, you just can't tell anymore. I imagine this must be even harder for the non-Americans who are not used to the brow-beating and mudslinging of American politics.
Krigwin, I have told you this before I think, and it may be a little hard to swallow but.... believe it or not, there are people out in the world that think differently than you. I'm gonna give that a few minutes to sink in.
I could easily call liberals "trolls", but its pointless, ignorant, and beside the point.
Krigwin is right.
Now, I'll explain you. When you have people who come and tell you that earth was created 6000 years ago, or that the problem of the most capitalist country in the world is that the state is too big and there is no place for business (lol, seriously?), or some racist bullcrap about afro-american who don't want to work (yeah, your post is very racist), it's very very hard to believe that they are serious and are not just trying to piss you off.
Now, I know, people think differently. You see, I'm not a liberal, but I understand liberal thinking. It makes sense, although I have reasons not to share their ideas. That's why I always like talking with liberals. Republican ideas, in an other hand, just mostly don't make any sense at all.
On January 07 2011 02:01 Krigwin wrote: Is anyone else a little bewildered and disarmed at how genuinely difficult it has become to tell nowadays if someone is a totally serious right-winger or an over-the-top transparent troll? Seriously, you just can't tell anymore. I imagine this must be even harder for the non-Americans who are not used to the brow-beating and mudslinging of American politics.
Krigwin, I have told you this before I think, and it may be a little hard to swallow but.... believe it or not, there are people out in the world that think differently than you. I'm gonna give that a few minutes to sink in.
I could easily call liberals "trolls", but its pointless, ignorant, and beside the point.
Krigwin is right.
Now, I'll explain you. When you have people who come and tell you that earth was created 6000 years ago, or that the problem of the most capitalist country in the world is that the state is too big and there is no place for business (lol, seriously?), or some racist bullcrap about afro-american who don't want to work (yeah, your post is very racist), it's very very hard to believe that they are serious and are not just trying to piss you off.
Now, I know, people think differently. You see, I'm not a liberal, but I understand liberal thinking. It makes sense, although I have reasons not to share their ideas. That's why I always like talking with liberals. Republican ideas, in an other hand, just mostly don't make any sense at all.
To us americans, socialism also doesn't make sense because the US prides itself on individualism and individual accomplishment. Collectivist thought is the #1 reason for the majority of the wars that have ever happened. No i'm not a conservative, i'm a libertarian, but just because you have absolutely no knowledge of american thought and philosophy, i'd thought i'd point it out to you. The democrat party here is more conservative than the most conservative party in europe btw. We have no nationalist party since nationalism is a dead idea. Republicans in general are pragmatists which is the problem. Libertarians want real limited government and no foreign intervention and free trade. Republicans simply represent a people who are disillusioned with government and want to enjoy the freedom and prosperity that their grandparents told them about, but don't believe that it is possible so that make concessions such as having a huge army and moderately regulating a central bank. The very small percentage of republicans who are fundamentalist christians that believe in literal 6 day creation make up probably 2-5% of the republican party, however, they are the most vocal and the media really likes to talk about them. Imagine if American's thought that all french people were anarchists, it's basically the same as how french people think of conservative americans.
On January 07 2011 03:00 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 07 2011 02:18 Scruffy wrote:
On January 07 2011 02:01 Krigwin wrote: Is anyone else a little bewildered and disarmed at how genuinely difficult it has become to tell nowadays if someone is a totally serious right-winger or an over-the-top transparent troll? Seriously, you just can't tell anymore. I imagine this must be even harder for the non-Americans who are not used to the brow-beating and mudslinging of American politics.
Krigwin, I have told you this before I think, and it may be a little hard to swallow but.... believe it or not, there are people out in the world that think differently than you. I'm gonna give that a few minutes to sink in.
I could easily call liberals "trolls", but its pointless, ignorant, and beside the point.
Krigwin is right.
Now, I'll explain you. When you have people who come and tell you that earth was created 6000 years ago, or that the problem of the most capitalist country in the world is that the state is too big and there is no place for business (lol, seriously?), or some racist bullcrap about afro-american who don't want to work (yeah, your post is very racist), it's very very hard to believe that they are serious and are not just trying to piss you off.
Now, I know, people think differently. You see, I'm not a liberal, but I understand liberal thinking. It makes sense, although I have reasons not to share their ideas. That's why I always like talking with liberals. Republican ideas, in an other hand, just mostly don't make any sense at all.
To us americans, socialism also doesn't make sense because the US prides itself on individualism and individual accomplishment. Collectivist thought is the #1 reason for the majority of the wars that have ever happened. No i'm not a conservative, i'm a libertarian, but just because you have absolutely no knowledge of american thought and philosophy, i'd thought i'd point it out to you. The democrat party here is more conservative than the most conservative party in europe btw. We have no nationalist party since nationalism is a dead idea. Republicans in general are pragmatists which is the problem. Libertarians want real limited government and no foreign intervention and free trade. Republicans simply represent a people who are disillusioned with government and want to enjoy the freedom and prosperity that their grandparents told them about, but don't believe that it is possible so that make concessions such as having a huge army and moderately regulating a central bank. The very small percentage of republicans who are fundamentalist christians that believe in literal 6 day creation make up probably 2-5% of the republican party, however, they are the most vocal and the media really likes to talk about them. Imagine if American's thought that all french people were anarchists, it's basically the same as how french people think of conservative americans.
I have quite a problem with your post, I don't know what to answer because it doesn't answer to mine, and I wonder if you have really read what I have written. It's just irrelevant to what I was saying concerning Scruffy's position and what Krigwin said.
Now that we are there, "collectivism is the n°1 reason for war" made me laugh out loud. I have limited knowledge? Are you sure? Are you really sure?
On January 07 2011 02:56 Attican wrote: I don't get why there isn't some sort of way to opt out of things like social security or welfare, in exchange for not having to pay taxes for it. So many people get so riled up about welfare programs, if there was a system like this they'd have no reason to complain since they would have the right to chose whether they'd like welfare in case they ever need it or whether they'd like to take the risk in exchange for less taxes. .
Because everybody who pays more in taxes for welfare than they receive from it would opt out.
On January 07 2011 03:00 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 07 2011 02:18 Scruffy wrote:
On January 07 2011 02:01 Krigwin wrote: Is anyone else a little bewildered and disarmed at how genuinely difficult it has become to tell nowadays if someone is a totally serious right-winger or an over-the-top transparent troll? Seriously, you just can't tell anymore. I imagine this must be even harder for the non-Americans who are not used to the brow-beating and mudslinging of American politics.
Krigwin, I have told you this before I think, and it may be a little hard to swallow but.... believe it or not, there are people out in the world that think differently than you. I'm gonna give that a few minutes to sink in.
I could easily call liberals "trolls", but its pointless, ignorant, and beside the point.
Krigwin is right.
Now, I'll explain you. When you have people who come and tell you that earth was created 6000 years ago, or that the problem of the most capitalist country in the world is that the state is too big and there is no place for business (lol, seriously?), or some racist bullcrap about afro-american who don't want to work (yeah, your post is very racist), it's very very hard to believe that they are serious and are not just trying to piss you off.
Now, I know, people think differently. You see, I'm not a liberal, but I understand liberal thinking. It makes sense, although I have reasons not to share their ideas. That's why I always like talking with liberals. Republican ideas, in an other hand, just mostly don't make any sense at all.
To us americans, socialism also doesn't make sense because the US prides itself on individualism and individual accomplishment. Collectivist thought is the #1 reason for the majority of the wars that have ever happened. No i'm not a conservative, i'm a libertarian, but just because you have absolutely no knowledge of american thought and philosophy, i'd thought i'd point it out to you. The democrat party here is more conservative than the most conservative party in europe btw. We have no nationalist party since nationalism is a dead idea. Republicans in general are pragmatists which is the problem. Libertarians want real limited government and no foreign intervention and free trade. Republicans simply represent a people who are disillusioned with government and want to enjoy the freedom and prosperity that their grandparents told them about, but don't believe that it is possible so that make concessions such as having a huge army and moderately regulating a central bank. The very small percentage of republicans who are fundamentalist christians that believe in literal 6 day creation make up probably 2-5% of the republican party, however, they are the most vocal and the media really likes to talk about them. Imagine if American's thought that all french people were anarchists, it's basically the same as how french people think of conservative americans.
This man spits the truth. I am conservative and libertarian. I see the Republican party as a vehicle to get fresh ideas into government (third parties hardly ever win). Idk, I wish more people would go independent and win, that way labels aren't used as much.
Is it wrong for me to want my country to succeed? I don't think what Obama is/was doing has worked, and I am pretty sure it won't work.
On January 07 2011 03:00 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 07 2011 02:18 Scruffy wrote:
On January 07 2011 02:01 Krigwin wrote: Is anyone else a little bewildered and disarmed at how genuinely difficult it has become to tell nowadays if someone is a totally serious right-winger or an over-the-top transparent troll? Seriously, you just can't tell anymore. I imagine this must be even harder for the non-Americans who are not used to the brow-beating and mudslinging of American politics.
Krigwin, I have told you this before I think, and it may be a little hard to swallow but.... believe it or not, there are people out in the world that think differently than you. I'm gonna give that a few minutes to sink in.
I could easily call liberals "trolls", but its pointless, ignorant, and beside the point.
Krigwin is right.
Now, I'll explain you. When you have people who come and tell you that earth was created 6000 years ago, or that the problem of the most capitalist country in the world is that the state is too big and there is no place for business (lol, seriously?), or some racist bullcrap about afro-american who don't want to work (yeah, your post is very racist), it's very very hard to believe that they are serious and are not just trying to piss you off.
Now, I know, people think differently. You see, I'm not a liberal, but I understand liberal thinking. It makes sense, although I have reasons not to share their ideas. That's why I always like talking with liberals. Republican ideas, in an other hand, just mostly don't make any sense at all.
To us americans, socialism also doesn't make sense because the US prides itself on individualism and individual accomplishment. Collectivist thought is the #1 reason for the majority of the wars that have ever happened. No i'm not a conservative, i'm a libertarian, but just because you have absolutely no knowledge of american thought and philosophy, i'd thought i'd point it out to you. The democrat party here is more conservative than the most conservative party in europe btw. We have no nationalist party since nationalism is a dead idea. Republicans in general are pragmatists which is the problem. Libertarians want real limited government and no foreign intervention and free trade. Republicans simply represent a people who are disillusioned with government and want to enjoy the freedom and prosperity that their grandparents told them about, but don't believe that it is possible so that make concessions such as having a huge army and moderately regulating a central bank. The very small percentage of republicans who are fundamentalist christians that believe in literal 6 day creation make up probably 2-5% of the republican party, however, they are the most vocal and the media really likes to talk about them. Imagine if American's thought that all french people were anarchists, it's basically the same as how french people think of conservative americans.
I have quite a problem with your post, I don't know what to answer because it doesn't answer to mine, and I wonder if you have really read what I have written. It's just irrelevant to what I was saying concerning Scruffy's position and what Krigwin said.
Now that we are there, "collectivism is the n°1 reason for war" made me laugh out loud. I have limited knowledge? Are you sure? Are you really sure?
Well, maybe open a history book. Like, once.
No i didn't answer it because there is nothing to answer, but how you responded to them didn't make sense at all. Instead of responding to the question of the intentions of republicans, you respond by saying that republicans make no sense and making huge general blanket statements that only are partially accurate about a significantly small portion of republicans. Republicans themselves are a very divided group. You have fundamentalist christians who only care about the topic of creation/evolution. You have normal christians who only care about abortion and taxes (which is like 50% of republicans). You have atheist republicans who hate taxes and think the government is corrupt. (like 25%) You have people who occasionally vote republican (because their parents do, which is another 25%). Then you have libertarians who will sometimes vote republican since it tends to align closer to libertarians on economic issues during a time of economic recession. The way republicans are portrayed in media is significantly different than how they actually are. Most republicans tend to be families and small business owners since they are generally more affected by taxes than any other group. In the end I really don't care because the republican party cannot last in it's current form. It's too muddled with different opinions. A lot of republicans don't care about issues like marajuana alchohol or even gay marriage as the libertarian influence has become more popular. Eventually the republican party will likely split its ways into a conservative party (for people like palin and bush) and a tea party like movement but will likely adpot libertarian social policy. The democrats are the same way, you have the 10% who actually believe in socialism and then you have the majority who simply believe in a large government and want to implement some domestic policies related to welfare. The democrat party is not nearly as divided as the republican party is.
On January 07 2011 03:00 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 07 2011 02:18 Scruffy wrote:
On January 07 2011 02:01 Krigwin wrote: Is anyone else a little bewildered and disarmed at how genuinely difficult it has become to tell nowadays if someone is a totally serious right-winger or an over-the-top transparent troll? Seriously, you just can't tell anymore. I imagine this must be even harder for the non-Americans who are not used to the brow-beating and mudslinging of American politics.
Krigwin, I have told you this before I think, and it may be a little hard to swallow but.... believe it or not, there are people out in the world that think differently than you. I'm gonna give that a few minutes to sink in.
I could easily call liberals "trolls", but its pointless, ignorant, and beside the point.
Krigwin is right.
Now, I'll explain you. When you have people who come and tell you that earth was created 6000 years ago, or that the problem of the most capitalist country in the world is that the state is too big and there is no place for business (lol, seriously?), or some racist bullcrap about afro-american who don't want to work (yeah, your post is very racist), it's very very hard to believe that they are serious and are not just trying to piss you off.
Now, I know, people think differently. You see, I'm not a liberal, but I understand liberal thinking. It makes sense, although I have reasons not to share their ideas. That's why I always like talking with liberals. Republican ideas, in an other hand, just mostly don't make any sense at all.
To us americans, socialism also doesn't make sense because the US prides itself on individualism and individual accomplishment. Collectivist thought is the #1 reason for the majority of the wars that have ever happened. No i'm not a conservative, i'm a libertarian, but just because you have absolutely no knowledge of american thought and philosophy, i'd thought i'd point it out to you. The democrat party here is more conservative than the most conservative party in europe btw. We have no nationalist party since nationalism is a dead idea. Republicans in general are pragmatists which is the problem. Libertarians want real limited government and no foreign intervention and free trade. Republicans simply represent a people who are disillusioned with government and want to enjoy the freedom and prosperity that their grandparents told them about, but don't believe that it is possible so that make concessions such as having a huge army and moderately regulating a central bank. The very small percentage of republicans who are fundamentalist christians that believe in literal 6 day creation make up probably 2-5% of the republican party, however, they are the most vocal and the media really likes to talk about them. Imagine if American's thought that all french people were anarchists, it's basically the same as how french people think of conservative americans.
This man spits the truth. I am conservative and libertarian. I see the Republican party as a vehicle to get fresh ideas into government (third parties hardly ever win). Idk, I wish more people would go independent and win, that way labels aren't used as much.
Is it wrong for me to want my country to succeed? I don't think what Obama is/was doing has worked, and I am pretty sure it won't work.
You guys make me facepalm so much my face hurts.
Do you realize that the State is the representation of public interest?
Do you realize that you are enslaved not by an evil administration but by your companies, your multinational and your oligarchy of shareholders? Do you realize that your food industry, your media industry, your weapon industry, your carceral industry, your pharmaceutic industry, every single industry fucks you in the ass day after day after day after day, because of how ridiculously powerful corporations are nowaday?
And you complain about your powerless adminsitration because it wants to give the chance to people who can't pay their insurance to get their cancer cured.
I'm so happy not to live in America, I would kill myself;
On January 07 2011 03:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 07 2011 03:12 darmousseh wrote:
On January 07 2011 03:00 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 07 2011 02:18 Scruffy wrote:
On January 07 2011 02:01 Krigwin wrote: Is anyone else a little bewildered and disarmed at how genuinely difficult it has become to tell nowadays if someone is a totally serious right-winger or an over-the-top transparent troll? Seriously, you just can't tell anymore. I imagine this must be even harder for the non-Americans who are not used to the brow-beating and mudslinging of American politics.
Krigwin, I have told you this before I think, and it may be a little hard to swallow but.... believe it or not, there are people out in the world that think differently than you. I'm gonna give that a few minutes to sink in.
I could easily call liberals "trolls", but its pointless, ignorant, and beside the point.
Krigwin is right.
Now, I'll explain you. When you have people who come and tell you that earth was created 6000 years ago, or that the problem of the most capitalist country in the world is that the state is too big and there is no place for business (lol, seriously?), or some racist bullcrap about afro-american who don't want to work (yeah, your post is very racist), it's very very hard to believe that they are serious and are not just trying to piss you off.
Now, I know, people think differently. You see, I'm not a liberal, but I understand liberal thinking. It makes sense, although I have reasons not to share their ideas. That's why I always like talking with liberals. Republican ideas, in an other hand, just mostly don't make any sense at all.
To us americans, socialism also doesn't make sense because the US prides itself on individualism and individual accomplishment. Collectivist thought is the #1 reason for the majority of the wars that have ever happened. No i'm not a conservative, i'm a libertarian, but just because you have absolutely no knowledge of american thought and philosophy, i'd thought i'd point it out to you. The democrat party here is more conservative than the most conservative party in europe btw. We have no nationalist party since nationalism is a dead idea. Republicans in general are pragmatists which is the problem. Libertarians want real limited government and no foreign intervention and free trade. Republicans simply represent a people who are disillusioned with government and want to enjoy the freedom and prosperity that their grandparents told them about, but don't believe that it is possible so that make concessions such as having a huge army and moderately regulating a central bank. The very small percentage of republicans who are fundamentalist christians that believe in literal 6 day creation make up probably 2-5% of the republican party, however, they are the most vocal and the media really likes to talk about them. Imagine if American's thought that all french people were anarchists, it's basically the same as how french people think of conservative americans.
I have quite a problem with your post, I don't know what to answer because it doesn't answer to mine, and I wonder if you have really read what I have written. It's just irrelevant to what I was saying concerning Scruffy's position and what Krigwin said.
Now that we are there, "collectivism is the n°1 reason for war" made me laugh out loud. I have limited knowledge? Are you sure? Are you really sure?
Well, maybe open a history book. Like, once.
No i didn't answer it because there is nothing to answer, but how you responded to them didn't make sense at all. Instead of responding to the question of the intentions of republicans, you respond by saying that republicans make no sense and making huge general blanket statements that only are partially accurate about a significantly small portion of republicans. Republicans themselves are a very divided group. You have fundamentalist christians who only care about the topic of creation/evolution. You have normal christians who only care about abortion and taxes (which is like 50% of republicans). You have atheist republicans who hate taxes and think the government is corrupt. (like 25%) You have people who occasionally vote republican (because their parents do, which is another 25%). Then you have libertarians who will sometimes vote republican since it tends to align closer to libertarians on economic issues during a time of economic recession. The way republicans are portrayed in media is significantly different than how they actually are. Most republicans tend to be families and small business owners since they are generally more affected by taxes than any other group. In the end I really don't care because the republican party cannot last in it's current form. It's too muddled with different opinions. A lot of republicans don't care about issues like marajuana alchohol or even gay marriage as the libertarian influence has become more popular. Eventually the republican party will likely split its ways into a conservative party (for people like palin and bush) and a tea party like movement but will likely adpot libertarian social policy. The democrats are the same way, you have the 10% who actually believe in socialism and then you have the majority who simply believe in a large government and want to implement some domestic policies related to welfare. The democrat party is not nearly as divided as the republican party is.
Look, you had George Bush as a leader, and Sarah Palin was n°2 in the presidential election. I don't get how someone with a functional brain can vote for Bush or want Sarah Palin as a vice president. It just doesn't fit.
Now, just that you know, between 40 and 45% of american believe in evolution. I guess the 60% remaining are not 2 or 3% of fucked up republicans.
"Do you realize that the State is the representation of public interest?"
This is fine until the public interest is to get paid by the government taking from working class people. Also we have politicians that rob the Treasury daily to stay in power.
At least corporations actually contribute to society. I hope you don't work for an evil corporation, because I don't.
Also, give me some examples of how im being asspounded daily by corporations. My butthole feels fine.
On January 07 2011 04:00 Scruffy wrote: "Do you realize that the State is the representation of public interest?"
This is fine until the public interest is to get paid by the government taking from working class people. Also we have politicians that rob the Treasury daily to stay in power.
At least corporations actually contribute to society. I hope you don't work for an evil corporation, because I don't.
Also, give me some examples of how im being asspounded daily by corporations. My butthole feels fine.
You don't get it.
Politicians work for the public interest. Their job is to help the country. When they don't, it means they are corrupted, and if all of them are corrupted, your political system is bad (and your political system IS bad as it is financed by private interest which is ludicrous: corruption is structural to your conception of democracy).
Companies work for their shareholders. They are supposed to make a lot of money at any cost, very quickly. Period. That's not about being evil. That's the way it is. Most of the time, that means, fucking everybody, including their customers, and evrybody in the country, in the ass.
If your butthole doesn't hurt, maybe you should really think why americans are so fucking huge, why you have nearly 1% people in jail in your country, why you are doing illegal war for no geopolitical good reason where thousand of your people are dying every year, why your population is so incredibly uneducated, etc etc etc etc
All of theses are not because of government, believe me. And when it is, it is because your government work for private interest. And not for you.
EPT
