EPTThe Official Fighting Games Topic - Page 21
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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SayaSP
Laos5494 Posts
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
On June 04 2008 08:54 Bill307 wrote:Similarly, Catherine might fall lower as players learn to deal with her BS, e.g. by jumping away from her rushing-grab-wallslam on reaction, and by rarely/never teching to avoid being air-thrown. Catherine will still be top after people stop scrubbing out against her, because she's just too beastly regardless. First off, she has really good, repeatable oki. The normal pattern for oki in AH for a lot of characters is "high up air combo that knocks them down while I'm still up here so I cancel into my arcana move that appears on the ground and force them to eat an OTG or tech/block and then maybe I get a mixup." Saki is the key example of this, though it happens with other characters fairly often. There are two other major patterns for AH oki- "low altitude air combo that leaves me still in the air when they can tech, but I can force an Arcana special and get there to mix up" and "whatever altitude air combo that ends with me landing and recovering about the same time they do, if not earlier." Cathy falls into that last category, really. Who cares if people don't tech her easy-players-shouldn't-mess-this-up air combo? The real problem is her mixup off that combo, which is almost Tekken-esque in silliness- Land, then... - if they teched... -- A wallslam punishes ground tech for a free corner combo to the same mixup, and is safe if they don't -- 623x... depends on what you're trying to cover, but generally it's free oki if they don't tech, safe/forced mixup if they do unless they have a good tech -> special in which case you shoot the low one -- l5A... doing it a bit late punishes attempting to jump from the tech (which is pointless because the wallslam would get you anyhow in that situation), also punishes non-invincible tech -> special attempts. Has options on block. Do it too early and you'll just whiff though. --- > 5/2B (hit-confirm to combo or pressure depending on if they blocked after the tech) --- A wallslam (to catch them sleeping) --- 214x (punishes block -> 4GC~attack, safe against block if you have homing, clashes against 6GC and lets you re-spin as necessary) -- 214x punishes some tech -> special attempts -- throw punishes ground tech... mostly useful to set up ice/water/time drill combos. -- jump or IAD C gives them a chance to get out if they teched and did a fast horizontally moving special, though if they just teched you can usually at least force a block or a crossup guessing game. - if they didn't tech... -- A wallslam is safe and still pushes them towards the corner -- forced 623x block into mixup -- 5A OTG into A wallslam or 623x for the exact same guessing game as if they had teched -- 214x can OTG them for a few more hits sometimes lol -- throw whiffs but you STILL have time to go for a mixup -- jump/iadC is a forced crossup situation In any of the 623x situations, if they jumped they can't attack you (or they get shot) and sometimes they get caught blocking the explosion anyhow. Shame Cathy doesn't have a faster un-airblockable attack, but if you do 2E immediately after the 623x (you can confirm their jump in that time hopefully) then it can connect. You can also just go for airthrow vs. jump C/spin mixup, or if they GC predictably (or badly, or not at all) you can jump -> air wallslam them. That's just standard Cathy oki. Since Tempestas/wind Cathy is so popular these days (extra mobility + pushblock + easy no-homing combo into oki for Cathy = too good), we rarely get to see how stupid it gets with certain Arcana specials. | ||
Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
 Thanks again for all the info.The Maori player ACT has some new AH2 tournament videos up on Youtube and in his blog: http://miu-act2.seesaa.net/article/98966950.html Notable matches: AH2 - Love Dorothy vs Love Lilica, Wind Catherine (games 1-2-2 and 1-2-3) Finally some nice Dorothy action!  1st match is just to watch Dorothy kick ass for once, instead of losing all the time.  2nd match is actually really good. + Show Spoiler [2 matches] + Love Dorothy vs Love Lilica Love Dorothy vs Wind Catherine AH2 - ACT (Bolt Maori) vs Time Yoriko (game 1-5-3) ACT picks Lightning as a counter to powered-up Yoriko, with the intent of clashing with all of Yoriko's powered-up moves until her pentagram bar runs out. It seems to work well. The Yoriko player, however, is quite a beast with Time's 6D teleport. At one point he does a sick teleport -> grab super. I rated this 4/5 because it was a good match, but not a great match, imo. + Show Spoiler [the match] + AH2 - Love Lilica, Wind Catherine vs Fire Petra (games 2-2-1 and 2-2-2) Finally some good Petra action as well. This Petra player uses some new BnB that I haven't seen before, too. Again, the 1st match is just Petra destroying Lilica, while the 2nd match is a great game. + Show Spoiler [2 matches] + Love Lilica vs Fire Petra Wind Catherine vs Fire Petra (Yes, the same Wind Catherine that peaced-out Dorothy in the vid above.  )AH2 - Fire Kamui vs Magnet Clarice (game 2-4-1) I'm linking to this video solely to illustrate how extremely gay Clarice can be once she has you cornered. + Show Spoiler [the match] + AH2 - A good match between two strong players. The 1st round is incredible. By the way, this Sacred Clarice just destroyed the previously-shown Magnet Clarice in the previous game (game 2-4-2). + Show Spoiler [the match] + | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
Of particular note in that match is Clarice's stupid 6[E]xN corner trickery, which mostly works because of the huge hitbox on her 6E and 2E. Land one 6[E] then just do 6E/6[E] over and over (works best with sacred because it speeds up your charge IIRC) but watch their wall tech- there's a height where it doesn't matter if they wall tech because 6[E] will hit at a good timing to catch them anyhow and they can't block it in the air. Eventually they get a bit too high so you do 2E/2[E] to launch into air combo, which is the way you end the "trap" when they've been pushed too high up the wall to guarantee another 6E after their wall tech. I personally think it makes more sense to do a 1-2 6E's then do her no-homing corner loop into whatever air combo, but I don't play much Clarice and I get the impression that a lot of people play Clarice so that they don't have to work as hard so shrug. Also omg that Kamui had no idea how to fight Clarice  | ||
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
Alright, I finally finished watching all those videos ACT put up. The tournament finals were pretty good, but also rather boring because the Love Lilica player runs away most of the time. If you want to see Mildred (the Halo Arcana) in use, and/or want to see Lilica run away form Yoriko in pentagram mode (and do a fantastic job of it, too), then you might want to check this match out: (Note: to watch these in high quality, add "&fmt=18" to the end of the URL.) + Show Spoiler [Halo LIL vs Time YO] + After the tournament matches there are some casuals, which imo are even better than the tourney matches. I felt the Catherine and Petra players played particularly well. Vids, if you're interested:Wind Catherine vs Fire Lilica - Lilica destroyed. Love Catherine vs Fire Lilica - Lilica destroyed again. Wind Catherine vs Wind Maori - Somewhat close match. Fire Petra vs Wind Maori - Worth watching if you like watching a skilled Petra player (which seem to be pretty rare). Fire Petra vs Magnet Clarice - Ditto. Fire Petra vs Time Yoriko - Pretty good match. This next match between Mirror Konoha and Magnet Fiona (underused Arcanas ftw!) wasn't exactly great, but it did have Aegis Reflector! Also, it's the first time I've seen someone actually get hit by the random bucket on the ground. + Show Spoiler [Aegis Reflector!] + Actually imo that mirror setup wasn't too useful, considering how little damage it did and how difficult it looks to make the crossup ambiguous. (I'm surprised Fiona didn't block the 1st crossup.) Lastly, the final match of the casuals was by far the best in the entire set. AH2 - ACT (Bolt Maori) vs Love Dorothy - must-see ACT uses 5E/2E's clash frames as anti-air, which looks pretty cool. (I'd be much more impressed if Dorothy's cane didn't cause clash freeze, though. Like Maori's top.) Love Dorothy does a sick corner combo involving the ace of spades and the love beam super. Overall, this is one of the best AH2 matches I've seen in a long while.  + Show Spoiler [great game] + | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On June 06 2008 06:11 thedeadhaji wrote: has anyone watched the retarded Mugen AI battles? It's retardeeeddd but sometimes strangely amusing. While drunk? | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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SayaSP
Laos5494 Posts
Edit: Rofl that aegis reflector is hilarious | ||
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Kingkosi
United States1215 Posts
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H
New Zealand6138 Posts
On June 06 2008 06:11 thedeadhaji wrote: has anyone watched the retarded Mugen AI battles? It's retardeeeddd but sometimes strangely amusing. Search for "M. Bison mugen" on youtube. First result is actually pretty fucking amazing. | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
I mean, Aegis unblockables wouldn't work in GG. You have to block backwards correlated to your opponent, even if something comes to your back. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
On June 07 2008 16:29 freelander wrote: does blocking in AH work like the blocking in 3s or the one in guilty gear? I mean, Aegis unblockables wouldn't work in GG. You have to block backwards correlated to your opponent, even if something comes to your back. It's not how blocking works so much as how projectiles work- in 3S projectiles hit from the side they started on... which is only an issue if a character recovers fast enough from the projectile (or the projectile stays out long enough) for them to cross up somehow. In GG, projectiles don't have that property- with a few exceptions they just hit mid from the same side as the opponent. Exceptions being Eddie's drills (low, same side as Eddie) and Eddie summon -D- (overhead, same side as Eddie) and that's all that I can think of... of course that's also why Eddie has so many unblockables. If it's any consolation, attacks can't hit on the exact same frame in GG (maybe not in 3S, either) so it's technically possible to 1F guard switch to block a perfectly timed unblockable... yeah good luck on that. Worst thing is that it's usually more lenient to block (Eddie players don't often time it perfectly) BUT that kinda makes it harder because there's variation in the timing based on when they did things. I have NEVER blocked a properly done meaty H drill FRC -> iadS unblockable, and I've only blocked like 1-2 D drill + shadow -D- unblockables. Blocked plenty of meaty shadow -H- + flying attack unblockables though, but that one is easy (relatively). So if Aegis kept its property of hitting from the same side as it started from, it'd work fine as an unblockable in GG. That said... as a general rule, AH projectiles hit mid from the side your opponent is on... Clarice's ground 236...C? (low one) hits low and her air 236x hits overhead IIRC. Moriomoto (plant) seeds hit low when the bloom/bite. I'm pretty sure Lieselotte's doll only hits mid (didn't seem to have trouble blocking any kind of high/low unblockable or high/low mixups in general, lol her new overhead is so easy to block). I don't remember if you have to block the Gier puddle low, though... I don't think so but I could be wrong. | ||
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ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
I got really close like 3 times to beating him. The strategy to beating JR is to beat him 1st round but don't rape him 1st round if you do win. If you piss him off the first round, he'll start getting into berserker mode and getting double perfects. | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
and what game it is? depending on the game you can have some strategy with the things you can take over to the next round  | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14912 Posts
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ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
who has time to win 66 matches in a row >< More like, which group of idiots has the time to lose 66 matches in a row to him >_< | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
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