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On July 23 2011 21:29 r33k wrote:
Quick question, why is everyone so crazy about n0tail? Like, I can totally understand the lack of a figure to worship with chu quitting and the SK/EG debacle, but is there a reason why people like sneyking and era aren't worshipped as heavily?
It has more to do with notail consistently having 450+ gpm on almost every hero he plays even when basically being 1v5 middle some games (cough sk), recovering multiple times from being ridiculously behind (like 0-7 by the 15 minute mark into 400+ gpm on a hero with poor farming abilities). His ss vs mrswish's hag is the only time I've seen him just get truly raped and he still had 340 gpm despite being 2-15 (there were a ton of ganks from the sidelanes as well), and to be fair I don't think I've ever seen dskb lose if they had hag.
H4nni, fujiapples, chu, and mr swish are the only people who I could see winning against him in lane without help from the other lanes (2/4 of these play lol now). Phe'v is kind of a special case on that one too, in that if he feels like winning on that particular day then he seems unbeatable, but a lot of the time he just sorta... doesn't seem to want to win at all. Trixi can probably compete with him but I don't think we'll ever see it since they're on the same team.
On a separate issue entirely, 2009's comment, I think it's most important to remember that he is referring to a VS swap - which is an incredibly high risk/high reward maneuver to use in the manner 820 did (it was 820 right?), swapping the opposing carry into the team. It becomes even more risky when swapping a tanky hero like alchemist who is fairly decked out and hasn't blown his ult.
There was no possible way for them to know that the sentinel team was in the specific positions they were or that CM would be able to get off a perfect ult. I kind of think that it was a calculated gamble - had it worked they would have been very far ahead, but even failing they weren't as far behind as they would have been ahead. (In fact, they seemed quite comfortable playing at this somewhat mild of a disadvantage). Dota is very much about effective risk taking.
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On July 24 2011 00:13 Glull wrote:
really?
...really?
You're going to need to be more specific with your outrage.
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On July 24 2011 00:21 Nevuk wrote:You're going to need to be more specific with your outrage.
My guess is on comparing n0tail to Chinese dota players.
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On July 24 2011 00:30 5-s wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:21 Nevuk wrote:On July 24 2011 00:13 Glull wrote:
really?
...really? You're going to need to be more specific with your outrage. My guess is on comparing n0tail to Chinese dota players.
Yeah, I haven't really seen enough of chinese dota to make that kind of statement, I'll retract it.
(I meant that he was closer, not that he was close, though. burning's morph from that game alone was superior to anything I've seen from notail)
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it is not outrage, it is just wrong on so many levels i cannot even tell if you are serious - before you want me to be specific it would be nice if you could reassure me that this is the case. here is where i have "some" doubts:
On July 24 2011 00:07 Nevuk wrote:consistently having 450+ gpm on almost every hero
On July 24 2011 00:07 Nevuk wrote:basically being 1v5 middle some games
On July 24 2011 00:07 Nevuk wrote:recovering multiple times from being ridiculously behind (like 0-7 by the 15 minute mark into 400+ gpm on a hero with poor farming abilities)
i dont want to quote the second paragraph, because when you say that only hanni fuji chu and swish can beat notail mid anyone with a brain will come to the conclusion that you didnt think objectively (and truthfully, in this particular example) at all - there really is no doubt about it.
essentially i am saying that your opinion (and thus your post) have no value at all if your subjectivity leads you to misrepresent or fabricate information on this scale.
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On July 24 2011 00:47 Glull wrote:it is not outrage, it is just wrong on so many levels i cannot even tell if you are serious - before you want me to be specific it would be nice if you could reassure me that this is the case. here is where i have "some" doubts: Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:07 Nevuk wrote:consistently having 450+ gpm on almost every hero Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:07 Nevuk wrote:recovering multiple times from being ridiculously behind (like 0-7 by the 15 minute mark into 400+ gpm on a hero with poor farming abilities) i dont want to quote the second paragraph, because when you say that only hanni fuji chu and swish can beat notail mid anyone with a brain will come to the conclusion that you didnt think objectively (and truthfully, in this particular example) at all - there really is no doubt about it. essentially i am saying that your opinion (and thus your post) have no value at all if your subjectivity leads you to misrepresent or fabricate information on this scale.
There are certainly other players out there who can beat him mid, you're correct. Those are just the only players I've personally seen do it without help from their sidelanes frequently (significant help mind you, a gank here or there is just expected) or to have done so in a completely dominating fashion (mrswish). It was more about matching him in consistency than "are these players capable of beating him mid", which era is as are most of the "main" mid players like scandal, etc.
Sorry, I do kind of have some weird rhetorical mannerisms, like being hyperbolic without being clear about it, as I was with the 1v5 thing - it was in reference to most of sk and msi's recent meetings where sk 5 man ganks mid, then constantly roamed middle over and over and banned notail specific heroes instead of trending bans.
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You're extrapolating way too much from one game, and I don't know why you think Sil is so hard to farm with: she practically has a radiance with lvl 4 death lotus. Her passive deals so much damage too, and with her ult she can stay in lane or jungle or whatever indefinitely. In fact, she's probably one of the easiest heroes to come back with, since she does so much damage with even the most basic of items.
And this
On July 24 2011 00:07
Nevuk wrote: consistently having 450+ gpm on almost every hero
is just blatantly wrong if you look through his matchlist on both his main and smurf accounts.
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uhh so look past his exaggeration and take the point..? Being an internet professor isn't getting you anywhere.
The point, by the way, seems to be: n0tail has the strongest mid performance in HoN. Which is a perfectly reasonable response to the question asked..
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Because he's saying shit as if it's factual to back up his statements, that's why I'm being an "internet professor". If he cites statistics like 450 gpm every game and 1v5 middle, then they deserve to be refuted since it seems like he's actually serious in thinking it's true.
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LOL I clicked on the Maplestory thread on accident thinking it was the DotA thread... WAS SO CONFUSED
D:
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On July 24 2011 04:06 DarkOptik wrote:
Because he's saying shit as if it's factual to back up his statements, that's why I'm being an "internet professor". If he cites statistics like 450 gpm every game and 1v5 middle, then they deserve to be refuted since it seems like he's actually serious in thinking it's true.
Ok. Refute.
Oh wait:
http://honstats.org/n0tail
He doesn't have 450+ gpm every game. It easily seems to meet this as an average though, in the last 50-100 games.
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It's funny because glull is completely wrong yet expresses this wrongness with such hamfisted and ironminded certitude that you might almost believe him.
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On July 24 2011 04:54 Ganfei2 wrote:
It's funny because glull is completely wrong yet expresses this wrongness with such hamfisted and ironminded certitude that you might almost believe him.
if i am wrong, tell me where and why or stay away.
edit: @Nevuk: trying to make your point by linking a 2 months old list of matchmaking games is not much better than what you did before - and its quite easy to figure out that his average gpm in his 130 recent matchmaking games is 388, which is significantly lower than the number you mention. this is however all irrelevant because matchmaking stats have absolutely nothing to do with performance in real games.
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On July 24 2011 04:15 paper wrote:
LOL I clicked on the Maplestory thread on accident thinking it was the DotA thread... WAS SO CONFUSED
D:
You would, roogie, you WOOD.
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anyone streaming any high level HoN matches? Or have a homepage like Honcast that actually has some new content?
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If Nevuks post provoked you so much, somethings wrong with you, that's pretty much _my_ point. Everything he says is very reasonable indeed.
Patrio^:
justin.tv/korokodile
justin.tv/yodahontv
justin.tv/sktralf
testie, when hes not playing with his 1500 buddies
when you go to any of those channels you should find some similar high level hon in the sidebar, too
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On July 24 2011 05:31 Ethenielle wrote:
If Nevuks post provoked you so much, somethings wrong with you, that's pretty much _my_ point. Everything he says is very reasonable indeed.
"i like notail because i think he is the strongest mid player" is perfectly acceptable
"i like notail because he has 450 gpm almost every game and wins 5v1 mid and can only be beaten by 4 players in the game" is not
On July 24 2011 03:53 Ethenielle wrote:uhh so look past his exaggeration and take the point..? while this is of course possible it promotes bad posting habits and dulls every discussion it takes place in - the simple solution to which is not posting like nevuk did in this particular case.
i will just repeat what i said earlier here because it appears you have not fully understood this:
On July 24 2011 00:47 Glull wrote:essentially i am saying that your opinion (and thus your post) have no value at all if your subjectivity leads you to misrepresent or fabricate information on this scale.
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On July 24 2011 05:26 Patrio wrote:
anyone streaming any high level HoN matches? Or have a homepage like Honcast that actually has some new content?
The honreplays.org site has a sidebar that shows the top active HoN streamers at any given time. It's probably the best utility to keep track of such things right now.
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grouty ditched my troll games for his big lipped boyfriend :'( sad times
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EPT
