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Personal attacks in this thread will draw a temp ban. |
On November 25 2011 22:48 Tschis wrote:
Idra said on twitter "getting cheesed every game doesn't mean you're playing bad".
I always wonder, why can't he just try some style that punishes cheesy games? I don't believe the game is so imbalanced that you can lose to cheese even if you're preparing for it.
I mean, IdrA is a macro master, if he starts some matches playing a more defensive style against cheese, even if the other player isn't cheesing, idra could be behind but could probably get back on his feet with his macro skills.
I just get sad when I see him losing some stupid games =/
To preface: I'm a huge IdrA fan and this comment makes me so sad. His mental game during MLG orlando and IEM Guangzhou was what put him back on top but this is just back to square one.
He didnt lose to cheese - he just played bad:
Against huk he went gassless and lost like 10+ lings without killing a single zealot or stalker of huk's (1zealot+2stalker reaction to late gas push) and then didn't get a evo despite knowing huk HAD to have gas banked (no sentries). Huk even expo'd. Then in game two he tried to all-in huk and simply failed at microing. No cheese (at least very mild cheese)
Puma beat him on dual site by getting hellions into the main (straight up mistake by idrA, no cheese - Puma had a 3rd). Then Puma played standard reactor hellion into 3 bases+tank-thor push. IdrA failed at holding back the obligatory hellion harrass and took too much damage from the hellions due to failed spine micro.
Again, I'm a huge idrA fan and going into the last MLG i was pumped for the new outlook idrA. But the last two weeks have been depressing. His mind game is just shitty right now. 
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On November 25 2011 22:48 Tschis wrote:
Idra said on twitter "getting cheesed every game doesn't mean you're playing bad".
I always wonder, why can't he just try some style that punishes cheesy games? I don't believe the game is so imbalanced that you can lose to cheese even if you're preparing for it.
I mean, IdrA is a macro master, if he starts some matches playing a more defensive style against cheese, even if the other player isn't cheesing, idra could be behind but could probably get back on his feet with his macro skills.
I just get sad when I see him losing some stupid games =/
Idra has commented on this before, the problem is that different cheeses requires different responses. If your opponent is hell bent on just flipping a coin every game there isn't much you can do about it. There isn't any build that protects against every cheese imaginable, and if there was it would severely handicap your mide / late game.
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On November 25 2011 23:41 bumwithagun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 22:48 Tschis wrote:
Idra said on twitter "getting cheesed every game doesn't mean you're playing bad".
I always wonder, why can't he just try some style that punishes cheesy games? I don't believe the game is so imbalanced that you can lose to cheese even if you're preparing for it.
I mean, IdrA is a macro master, if he starts some matches playing a more defensive style against cheese, even if the other player isn't cheesing, idra could be behind but could probably get back on his feet with his macro skills.
I just get sad when I see him losing some stupid games =/ + Show Spoiler +To preface: I'm a huge IdrA fan and this comment makes me so sad. His mental game during MLG orlando and IEM Guangzhou was what put him back on top but this is just back to square one. He didnt lose to cheese - he just played bad: Against huk he went gassless and lost like 10+ lings without killing a single zealot or stalker of huk's (1zealot+2stalker reaction to late gas push) and then didn't get a evo despite knowing huk HAD to have gas banked (no sentries). Huk even expo'd. Then in game two he tried to all-in huk and simply failed at microing. No cheese (at least very mild cheese) Puma beat him on dual site by getting hellions into the main (straight up mistake by idrA, no cheese - Puma had a 3rd). Then Puma played standard reactor hellion into 3 bases+tank-thor push. IdrA failed at holding back the obligatory hellion harrass and took too much damage from the hellions due to failed spine micro. Again, I'm a huge idrA fan and going into the last MLG i was pumped for the new outlook idrA. But the last two weeks have been depressing. His mind game is just shitty right now.
You guys are being all negative about this. Idra still played pretty damn dominating sc2 these two days. There's no shame in losing to Huk and Puma, so I doubt he was talking about that. (Btw, looking at how Puma is playing, my money is on him this tournament.)
He was probably tweeting to say two things. Firstly, the losses to Kas, Jimpo and Forsen were to cheesy play. One shouldn't read from them much about his current form. For example, the nydus in the Forsen game was pretty awesome trickery by Forsen, but he needed a ton of luck for that play to come out well enough to kill Idra, so it counts as cheese.
The second thing the tweet tells us is that Idra feels good about how well he is playing at the moment, which means there is much to look forward to in the future. I, personally, cannot wait to see him rack up more results soon, as he surely will.
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On November 25 2011 22:59 AGM-Hellfire wrote:
Teamkills -_-
Anyway I tweeted @Dreamhack I thought tlo filling for tasteless was a great idea and asked them to ask if idra wants to guest cast you guys should ask too %)
Better tweet @Artosis.
On November 25 2011 23:06 Aocowns wrote:
Wow. Depressing to come home to such results... What happened? Did Puma finally lose his dignity and cheesed?
He did a 11/11+scv pressure but that was the one game Idra won. I think what a lot of us feared before his marathon started has come to reality: lack of proper practice and fatigue due to travelling all the time are taking their tow. He had great showings at the first few tournaments - even IPL3 - but then slowly started degrading. I don't think it's because of the "mental game" or being cheesed too much; he's just not as sharp.
He doesn't seem to think the same but it's pretty obvious if you look at his results, I think. He wasn't practicing properly during his last few months in Korea and when he was living with Machine and Inka and gradually started showing bad results. Then he moved to the EG house and a few months later it started paying off. Then his ridiculous schedule picked up again and he doesn't appear to be as good anymore.
It's almost over but its definitely something to plan more extensivelly for 2012.
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On November 25 2011 23:57 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 22:59 AGM-Hellfire wrote:
Teamkills -_-
Anyway I tweeted @Dreamhack I thought tlo filling for tasteless was a great idea and asked them to ask if idra wants to guest cast you guys should ask too %) Better tweet @Artosis. Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 23:06 Aocowns wrote:
Wow. Depressing to come home to such results... What happened? Did Puma finally lose his dignity and cheesed? He did a 11/11+scv pressure but that was the one game Idra won. I think what a lot of us feared before his marathon started has come to reality: lack of proper practice and fatigue due to travelling all the time are taking their tow. He had great showings at the first few tournaments - even IPL3 - but then slowly started degrading. I don't think it's because of the "mental game" or being cheesed too much; he's just not as sharp. He doesn't seem to think the same but it's pretty obvious if you look at his results, I think. He wasn't practicing properly during his last few months in Korea and when he was living with Machine and Inka and gradually started showing bad results. Then he moved to the EG house and a few months later it started paying off. Then his ridiculous schedule picked up again and he doesn't appear to be as good anymore. It's almost over but its definitely something to plan more extensivelly for 2012.
Ah, ok thanks. Yeah, I've thought the same. Of course, his mindset can't be all too good after that loss to MC, but his attitude and mindset has slowly been getting better since he came back from Korea, imo. It would've been better to skip Dreamhack alltogether and practice for WCG/NASL
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The  IdrA& and IdrA& pages are looking even better now thanks to Zyr. Tell him he's awesome ^^
Also, Salle for IdrA.
More changes coming soon.
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On November 26 2011 00:55 xtfftc wrote:The IdrA& and IdrA& pages are looking even better now thanks to Zyr. Tell him he's awesome ^^ Also, Salle for IdrA. More changes coming soon.
So awesome
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-.- Honestly no shame in losing to Huk/Puma
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On November 25 2011 23:50 Phisk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 22:48 Tschis wrote:
Idra said on twitter "getting cheesed every game doesn't mean you're playing bad".
I always wonder, why can't he just try some style that punishes cheesy games? I don't believe the game is so imbalanced that you can lose to cheese even if you're preparing for it.
I mean, IdrA is a macro master, if he starts some matches playing a more defensive style against cheese, even if the other player isn't cheesing, idra could be behind but could probably get back on his feet with his macro skills.
I just get sad when I see him losing some stupid games =/ Idra has commented on this before, the problem is that different cheeses requires different responses. If your opponent is hell bent on just flipping a coin every game there isn't much you can do about it. There isn't any build that protects against every cheese imaginable, and if there was it would severely handicap your mide / late game.
Well, cheese is something every player has to deal with and occassionaly do it himself, otherwise his playstile gets too predictable. If IdrA gets cheesed a lot he has to adapt his play and make the right decision, at the end that's what you have to do if you want to win some major tournaments. Just playing your standard game and hoping you get your 4+ hatches isn't exactly what makes a good player either.
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On November 26 2011 01:07 CeriseCherries wrote:
-.- Honestly no shame in losing to Huk/Puma
Agree. It was unforunate that the games against Huk went as they did, but theres a element of luck involved in the game. He fought to the end aganst Puma and showed that he has improved his mentality.
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Canada1169 Posts
They put 3 EG players in one group? O_o
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now that idra is out my interest in dreamhack has really went out the window. who know i tune back in for the finals
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On November 26 2011 01:07 CeriseCherries wrote:
-.- Honestly no shame in losing to Huk/Puma
Idra would disagree with you.
and its not that he lost, its that he played like a random gold level ladder hero.....
losing to a DT rush off the bat, while not even scouting the edge of his own base for pylons.
then doing, literally the worst 7 roach push against a FFE ever televised.....
add to that, his horrible attack decisions against PuMa, and then you understand why everyone is disappointed.
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Yeah I think he's just too stressed at this point though, so I sympathise rather than flame.
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On November 26 2011 03:45 cavalier117 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 01:07 CeriseCherries wrote:
-.- Honestly no shame in losing to Huk/Puma Idra would disagree with you. and its not that he lost, its that he played like a random gold level ladder hero..... losing to a DT rush off the bat, while not even scouting the edge of his own base for pylons. then doing, literally the worst 7 roach push against a FFE ever televised..... add to that, his horrible attack decisions against PuMa, and then you understand why everyone is disappointed.
You severely over-estimate Gold league players.
But yeah, the games I saw vs HuK were terrible.
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A lot of times it seems like Idra just adopts this fatalistic mentality that results in him not scouting or preparing for cheese, or just playing really greedy, then he gets raged when someone actually preys upon this consistent weakness in his attitude.
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On November 26 2011 03:45 cavalier117 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 01:07 CeriseCherries wrote:
-.- Honestly no shame in losing to Huk/Puma Idra would disagree with you. and its not that he lost, its that he played like a random gold level ladder hero..... losing to a DT rush off the bat, while not even scouting the edge of his own base for pylons. then doing, literally the worst 7 roach push against a FFE ever televised..... add to that, his horrible attack decisions against PuMa, and then you understand why everyone is disappointed.
You know Ret tried essentially the same build (except he kept his natural hatch) against Naniwa, and he failed even more hard (naniwa had no units at all, just 2 cannons), and GGed immediatly after?
Roach rushes are just awful in general. If protoss has 2-3 units to delay, they can have time to build 2-3 more cannons, and if they have a stargate blindly building, it's a complete build order instant loss.
As for playing poorly, a lot of people are
Stephano played awful today, and Naniwa BARELY passed his group.
Until IdrA goes back to Korea I don't really expect him to win anything, and at most make top 4~
After he train with SlayerS for 3-5 weeks, then is when I will be surprised when he losses.
On November 26 2011 04:24 Fleebenworth wrote:
A lot of times it seems like Idra just adopts this fatalistic mentality that results in him not scouting or preparing for cheese, or just playing really greedy, then he gets raged when someone actually preys upon this consistent weakness in his attitude.
You don't prepare for reactor hellion openings, you BARELY survive them. Going roaches is EXACTLY what terran wants you to do, so their mech rapes you.
If you mean the DT opening, that's the first time Idra has lost to it in months on a streamed match, he usually has a evo at an exact time but making 16 lings to defend delayed it
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Expected more from Idra. Better luck next time.
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Idra said on twitter "getting cheesed every game doesn't mean you're playing bad".
played bad nothing more. unless you are talking about balance. huk's pvz has been bad. 0-2 vs huk was bad. the games vs puma was really fked up, 10 hellions can end the game any time they want, and 4 marines + 17 scv trade for 10 roaches + 20 lings.
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EPT
