EPTUsing Gil as a Berserker is kind of a waste, his main strength lies in the noble phantasms anyway.
Anime Discussion Thread - Page 1987
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Ecael
United States6703 Posts
Using Gil as a Berserker is kind of a waste, his main strength lies in the noble phantasms anyway. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
The hero that is the identify of F/Z Berserker would have originally been a Saber, I think. Also Hercules was definitely insane in F/SN, are you kidding me? Hercules the hero is quite literate and such lol. He just placed so much mana burden on Ilya that it would hurt her quite a bit, so in retribution she kept Hercules insane (she doesn't have to), which boosted his destructive power but made him unable to think clearly. It's her pettiness that really lead to her downfall (well, that and Gilgamesh hardcountering Hercules). | ||
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Tabbris
Bangladesh2839 Posts
On April 09 2012 15:47 Southlight wrote: There's presumably a way to "guarantee" a Berserker summon, as as far as I know every summoner who grabbed that class knowing beforehand that they would be getting it. It's also presumably partly why one of the Grail Wars lacked a Berserker. The hero that is the identify of F/Z Berserker would have originally been a Saber, I think. Also Hercules was definitely insane in F/SN, are you kidding me? Hercules the hero is quite literate and such lol. He just placed so much mana burden on Ilya that it would hurt her quite a bit, so in retribution she kept Hercules insane (she doesn't have to), which boosted his destructive power but made him unable to think clearly. It's her pettiness that really lead to her downfall (well, that and Gilgamesh hardcountering Hercules). Question didnt Gil keep his sanity even tho he bathed in the Evil holy grail? Wouldent his strong will prevent him from becoming the beserker class or does that not matter? | ||
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Mysticesper
United States1183 Posts
On April 09 2012 15:47 Southlight wrote: There's presumably a way to "guarantee" a Berserker summon, as as far as I know every summoner who grabbed that class knowing beforehand that they would be getting it. It's also presumably partly why one of the Grail Wars lacked a Berserker. The hero that is the identify of F/Z Berserker would have originally been a Saber, I think. Also Hercules was definitely insane in F/SN, are you kidding me? Hercules the hero is quite literate and such lol. He just placed so much mana burden on Ilya that it would hurt her quite a bit, so in retribution she kept Hercules insane (she doesn't have to), which boosted his destructive power but made him unable to think clearly. It's her pettiness that really lead to her downfall (well, that and Gilgamesh hardcountering Hercules). I know that for summoning Berserker in F/Z, Matou instructed Kariya to add a few extra lines to the incantation to promote the "berserk" property in his desired summon. So it seems clear that you can certainly promote (or guarantee) it when summoning. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Bigger issue would be his pride, as I believe making him berserk would be akin to forcing Lancer to fight 2v1. You would lose control of Gil in a hurry, and it's also debatable whether he would even be open to accepting a contract as a Berserker. The Grail obviously knows this, so in that sense I would never expect Gil to be a Berserker. Edit: Also spoilering to prevent massive post from annoying people + Show Spoiler + Ecael 2:51 am just occurred to me how the berserker class is basically doping Southlight 2:51 am ... that's what it is... Ecael 2:52 am well the side effects too much for me to link it to doping Southlight 2:52 am that's cuz ppl abused it by doping super strong heroes it was sposed to be for doping subpar heroes which makes them "on par" theoretically way to sidestep the one-class limitation at the cost of reason Ecael 2:53 am except shit doesn't work that way because you are just boosting stats without getting much in exchange Southlight 2:53 am boosting stats is pretty significant lol Southlight 2:53 am like theoretically you could take gawain and berserk it and he'd match up to arturia is the idea and the mana cost would be similar Ecael 2:53 am except gawain already matches arthur Southlight 2:53 am ok then bad example but you get the idea obv you don't come up with exploitable rules in competition Ecael 2:54 am well it'd be, similar mana cost, no good boons to noble phantasm, lose reason Southlight 2:54 am cuz they WILL exploit it no matter the cost so you get a good 2nd-rate hero with good noble phantasm and voila cuz there're plenty of those archer from f/sn for instance is really second-tier sasaki kojirou (knock on wood) is another example Ecael 2:55 am would archer still be able to UBW on drugs? Southlight 2:55 am yes Southlight 2:55 am cuz the control of reason just depends on the master and the class for instance lancelot clearly has good reasoning for the most part, unless triggered by arturia and that's with a terrible master ilya should have been able to control a fully-reasoned hercules but didn't out of pure pettiness Ecael 2:56 am except she didn't want to Southlight 2:56 am which is why she diiiiiiiiies stupid bitch lol Ecael 2:57 am so I guess berserkers for the most part goes berserk on command or on really specific triggers, we just had basically shit examples Southlight 2:57 am yes Ecael 2:57 am though tbh this part was worked out when they entertained the idea of a rpg with it Southlight 2:57 am so you could take shirou UBW and THEN berserk Ecael 2:57 am therefore messy Southlight 2:57 am and bam top-tier hero Southlight 2:57 am for h/e long mana lasts and iirc he doesn't take that much mana Ecael 2:57 am archer on top of it well Southlight 2:57 am mhm Ecael 2:57 am hmm berserker doesn't have that Southlight 2:58 am gilgamesh is too proud for berserker Ecael 2:58 am innate Southlight 2:58 am so i dun think that would have worked Ecael 2:58 am self-sustain mana thing Southlight 2:58 am true but not too big of a deal esp in shour case cuz he doesn't use mana lol Ecael 2:58 am lol zzz when is apocrypha supposed to actually release | ||
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Dingotrold
Denmark622 Posts
On April 09 2012 16:12 Mysticesper wrote: I know that for summoning Berserker in F/Z, Matou instructed Kariya to add a few extra lines to the incantation to promote the "berserk" property in his desired summon. So it seems clear that you can certainly promote (or guarantee) it when summoning. The way it was translated when I watched it, it just said the extra incantation would give his servant the power of madness, to make up for his shitty training. It didn't really register with me as a certain way to get Berserker so I either just assumed that a) Mr. Creepy knew what he was getting and if you're going Berserker, might as well get a crazy one or b) If you make your servant crazy on purpose, you're pretty much guaranteed to end up with something that would fill the Berserker part ^.^ It didn't even register with me that Berserker in FS/N was supposed to be Hercules (or I just forgot it). I only saw the anime, and wasn't particularly enthralled with it, I only stuck it through because of the awesome concept and Saber... | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On April 09 2012 16:41 Dingotrold wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 09 2012 16:12 Mysticesper wrote: I know that for summoning Berserker in F/Z, Matou instructed Kariya to add a few extra lines to the incantation to promote the "berserk" property in his desired summon. So it seems clear that you can certainly promote (or guarantee) it when summoning. The way it was translated when I watched it, it just said the extra incantation would give his servant the power of madness, to make up for his shitty training. It didn't really register with me as a certain way to get Berserker so I either just assumed that a) Mr. Creepy knew what he was getting and if you're going Berserker, might as well get a crazy one or b) If you make your servant crazy on purpose, you're pretty much guaranteed to end up with something that would fill the Berserker part ^.^ It didn't even register with me that Berserker in FS/N was supposed to be Hercules (or I just forgot it). I only saw the anime, and wasn't particularly enthralled with it, I only stuck it through because of the awesome concept and Saber... Didn't make the connection between "Madness" and "Berserker"? Really? Ilya named Berserker in FSN as Hercules on his very first appearance, since she was cocky and thought it wouldn't matter if everyone knew her servant. | ||
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asah
Afghanistan1 Post
User was banned for this post. | ||
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Skilledblob
Germany3392 Posts
so they didnt really have to make him insane to begin with for the berserker role  | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On April 09 2012 17:45 Skilledblob wrote: In Hercules story at the end after finishing his 12 tasks he also turned insane because I think Hera was messing with his mind and he killed his wife and children. so they didnt really have to make him insane to begin with for the berserker role I thought the story was the other way around? Hera made Hercules go crazy and kill his family cuz shes a salty bitch, and then he had to do the 12 Labors for redemption or something? | ||
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Skilledblob
Germany3392 Posts
On April 09 2012 17:55 Sentenal wrote: I thought the story was the other way around? Hera made Hercules go crazy and kill his family cuz shes a salty bitch, and then he had to do the 12 Labors for redemption or something? you might be right. gimme a sec I'll look it up. edit: ok Hera turned him insane before his 12 tasks. And after his tasks he was poisoned by his second wife because he was going after another girl. Because he wanted to end the pain from the poison he burned himself. | ||
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Dingotrold
Denmark622 Posts
On April 09 2012 17:02 Sentenal wrote: Didn't make the connection between "Madness" and "Berserker"? Really? Ilya named Berserker in FSN as Hercules on his very first appearance, since she was cocky and thought it wouldn't matter if everyone knew her servant. I made the connections I wrote I suppose. | ||
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Ushio
Canada868 Posts
Good god, it went from all cheer and funtimes to super crazy and serious. Refrain is fantastic Manly cries so good. So. Damn. Good. KYOUSUKEEEEEE I just started reading it so no spoilers please <3 | ||
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Elem
Sweden4717 Posts
On April 09 2012 22:05 Ushio wrote: Holy coincidence, I started it last night after IPL.^_^ it's living up to the hype sofar!Holy crap im reading refrain right now. The very fabric of my mind has exploded. This is incredible. Good god, it went from all cheer and funtimes to super crazy and serious. Refrain is fantastic Manly cries so good. So. Damn. Good. KYOUSUKEEEEEE I just started reading it so no spoilers please <3 Which makes it a good time to ask to the ones who read everything before... + Show Spoiler [Kurugaya's Route] + Is there a second end to it? It was nice in a depressing way but it felt a lot like it wasn't the only end, or even the true end with the last scene after the "dream". The other routes felt at least like there was some sorts of closure. Cos I did that route last (as in last before Rin's "real" route) so I don't think that's it. And if there is please don't spoil... z_z | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On April 09 2012 22:29 Elem wrote: Holy coincidence, I started it last night after IPL.^_^ it's living up to the hype sofar! Which makes it a good time to ask to the ones who read everything before... + Show Spoiler [Kurugaya's Route] + Is there a second end to it? It was nice in a depressing way but it felt a lot like it wasn't the only end, or even the true end with the last scene after the "dream". The other routes felt at least like there was some sorts of closure. Cos I did that route last (as in last before Rin's "real" route) so I don't think that's it. And if there is please don't spoil... z_z + Show Spoiler + If I recall correctly, if you finish the entire game you can go back to Kurugaya and get a second end. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On April 09 2012 22:29 Elem wrote: Holy coincidence, I started it last night after IPL.^_^ it's living up to the hype sofar! Which makes it a good time to ask to the ones who read everything before... + Show Spoiler [Kurugaya's Route] + Is there a second end to it? It was nice in a depressing way but it felt a lot like it wasn't the only end, or even the true end with the last scene after the "dream". The other routes felt at least like there was some sorts of closure. Cos I did that route last (as in last before Rin's "real" route) so I don't think that's it. And if there is please don't spoil... z_z There is a second end to Yuiko's route | ||
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Elem
Sweden4717 Posts
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
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Latham
9588 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Saber] + Arturia Pendragon + Show Spoiler [FSN Zerker] + Hercules And I'm pretty sure FSN Rider+ Show Spoiler + Medusa Conclusion is that Berserkers are berserkers not because they went insane during their lives, but because they were summoned as such. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On April 09 2012 23:05 Latham wrote: Wasn't it said in the FSN VN in the hero book that some heroes could be summoned as multiple classes? And that they could be summoned from different points of time in their life? + Show Spoiler [Saber] + Arturia Pendragon + Show Spoiler [FSN Zerker] + Hercules And I'm pretty sure FSN Rider+ Show Spoiler + Medusa Yes it was, for example Fate Extra Beserker (Lubu) can be summoned as a Saber/lance/Rider/or Archer Berserkers are so omnitalented  | ||
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