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On June 03 2016 13:52 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2016 13:51 Testuser wrote:
All be completely honest: Is Godz stupid? Does he not realise that all the space they got for the first 25 minutes where due to Envy dragging them over to their side of the map? Yeah, he didn't die, and that fight at rosh was bad, but he was the space the that secret got. I normally don't mind Godz, but wow ... that was so frustrating to look at. Clearly their plan wasn't to farm him, ffs. Was their plan to farm no one then? Arteezy was literally 4 position kunkka, if you're not farming clinkz you're not winning, end of story.
If envy's movement resulted in some kill for him, the game would have been very different. Navi simply read him perfectly, not giving him any opening to snipe heroes. The kills on envy were more of "good work navi" than "envy please", at least until the point when envy started tilting.
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On June 03 2016 13:54 Testuser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2016 13:52 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 03 2016 13:51 Testuser wrote:
All be completely honest: Is Godz stupid? Does he not realise that all the space they got for the first 25 minutes where due to Envy dragging them over to their side of the map? Yeah, he didn't die, and that fight at rosh was bad, but he was the space the that secret got. I normally don't mind Godz, but wow ... that was so frustrating to look at. Clearly their plan wasn't to farm him, ffs. Was their plan to farm no one then? Arteezy was literally 4 position kunkka, if you're not farming clinkz you're not winning, end of story. Their plan was to farm RTZ, Universe and Puppey. Quite clearly. Yeah, rtz didn't play a great Kunkka, but if EE hadn't played the way he did I'm pretty sure he never gets ANY farm, and Na'vi will just take the towers way earlier. If my team got that far behind early and I'm on a clinkz vs a drow strat with io, sladar, wr then I'll play the same way. You're not winning that by getting a farmed Clinkz, you need to get good teamfights.
There's nothing to farm. Kunkka doesn't flash farm and he was catastrophically behind. There was never a chance of him catching up unless secret hit some monster wombo combos. But it turns out Arteezy can't combo on Kunkka, let alone combo into a vac. Your ONLY hope is clinkz getting out of hand and just 3 shotting everyone and running around being dead isn't going to accomplish that goal. Kunkka doesn't farm his way out of that hole.
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On June 03 2016 13:56 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2016 13:52 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 03 2016 13:51 Testuser wrote:
All be completely honest: Is Godz stupid? Does he not realise that all the space they got for the first 25 minutes where due to Envy dragging them over to their side of the map? Yeah, he didn't die, and that fight at rosh was bad, but he was the space the that secret got. I normally don't mind Godz, but wow ... that was so frustrating to look at. Clearly their plan wasn't to farm him, ffs. Was their plan to farm no one then? Arteezy was literally 4 position kunkka, if you're not farming clinkz you're not winning, end of story. If envy's movement resulted in some kill for him, the game would have been very different. Navi simply read him perfectly, not giving him any opening to snipe heroes. The kills on envy were more of "good work navi" than "envy please", at least until the point when envy started tilting.
And up until the point where they failed at rosh, the rest of the team was getting farm. Did it work out? No. Was it their best shot? I think so, yes.
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I like how Wings completely switches up farm positions and roles. Iceice is normally their support but they put him mid brewmaster. Very confident play. I feel like watching this game, game 1 was them underestimating DC, not happening again.
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On June 03 2016 13:57 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2016 13:54 Testuser wrote:On June 03 2016 13:52 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 03 2016 13:51 Testuser wrote:
All be completely honest: Is Godz stupid? Does he not realise that all the space they got for the first 25 minutes where due to Envy dragging them over to their side of the map? Yeah, he didn't die, and that fight at rosh was bad, but he was the space the that secret got. I normally don't mind Godz, but wow ... that was so frustrating to look at. Clearly their plan wasn't to farm him, ffs. Was their plan to farm no one then? Arteezy was literally 4 position kunkka, if you're not farming clinkz you're not winning, end of story. Their plan was to farm RTZ, Universe and Puppey. Quite clearly. Yeah, rtz didn't play a great Kunkka, but if EE hadn't played the way he did I'm pretty sure he never gets ANY farm, and Na'vi will just take the towers way earlier. If my team got that far behind early and I'm on a clinkz vs a drow strat with io, sladar, wr then I'll play the same way. You're not winning that by getting a farmed Clinkz, you need to get good teamfights. There's nothing to farm. Kunkka doesn't flash farm and he was catastrophically behind. There was never a chance of him catching up unless secret hit some monster wombo combos. But it turns out Arteezy can't combo on Kunkka, let alone combo into a vac. Your ONLY hope is clinkz getting out of hand and just 3 shotting everyone and running around being dead isn't going to accomplish that goal. Kunkka doesn't farm his way out of that hole.
It wasn't just Kunkka though. It was Puppey and Universe too. Clinkz wont go around 3-shotting heroes vs that team, too easy to jump him in a fight.
But I agree about rtz, if he played a great Kunkka then they have a much greater chance of winning that game. He didn't though, and, well, they lost.
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is that a support mangix I spy ?
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Guys who claim Envy was feeding seriously (I only say it jokingly), you forgot many Clinkz players prefer to roam and snipe targets?
It was painful to see Wisp surviving by slivers of HP everytime but it's understandable what Envy was doing.
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On June 03 2016 13:57 the bear jew wrote:
I like how Wings completely switches up farm positions and roles. Iceice is normally their support but they put him mid brewmaster. Very confident play. I feel like watching this game, game 1 was them underestimating DC, not happening again.
At ESL One Manila, Wings seemed to have 0 clues in every Game 1 and got dumpstered each time.
They seem to decide to not play stupid in game 2 after that.
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Didn't see the beginning of game but I think Brew was ran mid with jungle Beast. Also a Visage?
Wings don't give 2 fucks about the meta.
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On June 03 2016 13:58 Testuser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2016 13:57 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 03 2016 13:54 Testuser wrote:On June 03 2016 13:52 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 03 2016 13:51 Testuser wrote:
All be completely honest: Is Godz stupid? Does he not realise that all the space they got for the first 25 minutes where due to Envy dragging them over to their side of the map? Yeah, he didn't die, and that fight at rosh was bad, but he was the space the that secret got. I normally don't mind Godz, but wow ... that was so frustrating to look at. Clearly their plan wasn't to farm him, ffs. Was their plan to farm no one then? Arteezy was literally 4 position kunkka, if you're not farming clinkz you're not winning, end of story. Their plan was to farm RTZ, Universe and Puppey. Quite clearly. Yeah, rtz didn't play a great Kunkka, but if EE hadn't played the way he did I'm pretty sure he never gets ANY farm, and Na'vi will just take the towers way earlier. If my team got that far behind early and I'm on a clinkz vs a drow strat with io, sladar, wr then I'll play the same way. You're not winning that by getting a farmed Clinkz, you need to get good teamfights. There's nothing to farm. Kunkka doesn't flash farm and he was catastrophically behind. There was never a chance of him catching up unless secret hit some monster wombo combos. But it turns out Arteezy can't combo on Kunkka, let alone combo into a vac. Your ONLY hope is clinkz getting out of hand and just 3 shotting everyone and running around being dead isn't going to accomplish that goal. Kunkka doesn't farm his way out of that hole. It wasn't just Kunkka though. It was Puppey and Universe too. Clinkz wont go around 3-shotting heroes vs that team, too easy to jump him in a fight.
Puppey and universe weren't going to win that either. Clinkz was your entire hope and he was dead half the game. The way you win that game is Clinkz raping everyone which requires farm, or vac into torrent into boat which was very clearly never going to happen.
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Somebody on Secret had try to make an attempt to create space and EE was definitely trying. Yes, he died a lot, but that's credit to Na'vi for reading his movements and not getting caught out.
The whole draft and play of Secret was questionable, but honestly EE's not the biggest source of dysfunction on Secret.
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time for secret to get dumpstered by DC.W33po
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On June 03 2016 13:56 M.S.Bismarck wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2016 13:48 maze. wrote:
Dendi rampage and Rtz ragequit. Best possible end for the game. Quoted for truth. Over to DC vs Wings. This is a closer match-is that a support Brewmaster?!
its mid brew
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I actually so want to see Secret against the players they left behind.
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the number of people still talking about Secret is too damn high
I mean we have a hot top 4 team duking it out right now
plus war for approval from DC and Wings
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On June 03 2016 13:59 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2016 13:58 Testuser wrote:On June 03 2016 13:57 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 03 2016 13:54 Testuser wrote:On June 03 2016 13:52 OuchyDathurts wrote:On June 03 2016 13:51 Testuser wrote:
All be completely honest: Is Godz stupid? Does he not realise that all the space they got for the first 25 minutes where due to Envy dragging them over to their side of the map? Yeah, he didn't die, and that fight at rosh was bad, but he was the space the that secret got. I normally don't mind Godz, but wow ... that was so frustrating to look at. Clearly their plan wasn't to farm him, ffs. Was their plan to farm no one then? Arteezy was literally 4 position kunkka, if you're not farming clinkz you're not winning, end of story. Their plan was to farm RTZ, Universe and Puppey. Quite clearly. Yeah, rtz didn't play a great Kunkka, but if EE hadn't played the way he did I'm pretty sure he never gets ANY farm, and Na'vi will just take the towers way earlier. If my team got that far behind early and I'm on a clinkz vs a drow strat with io, sladar, wr then I'll play the same way. You're not winning that by getting a farmed Clinkz, you need to get good teamfights. There's nothing to farm. Kunkka doesn't flash farm and he was catastrophically behind. There was never a chance of him catching up unless secret hit some monster wombo combos. But it turns out Arteezy can't combo on Kunkka, let alone combo into a vac. Your ONLY hope is clinkz getting out of hand and just 3 shotting everyone and running around being dead isn't going to accomplish that goal. Kunkka doesn't farm his way out of that hole. It wasn't just Kunkka though. It was Puppey and Universe too. Clinkz wont go around 3-shotting heroes vs that team, too easy to jump him in a fight. Puppey and universe weren't going to win that either. Clinkz was your entire hope and he was dead half the game. The way you win that game is Clinkz raping everyone which requires farm, or vac into torrent into boat which was very clearly never going to happen.
No way. Too easy to kill Clinkz in this game in teamfights. I don't think that plan is solid at all.
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On June 03 2016 14:00 Azarkon wrote:
I actually so want to see Secret against the players they left behind.
Everyone wants that. 
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EE getting criticized for his play is just like during his time in Kaipi/C9. Honestly you can see how dumb some people are in Dota when they judge performance by their deaths instead of their intentions behind their actions.
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On June 03 2016 14:00 Azarkon wrote:
I actually so want to see Secret against the players they left behind.
AZARKON IMPLICITLY SUPPORTING CHINESE TEAM !!!
apocalypse now !!!
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I hope DC and Wings make it to 3rd game so that I can watch Navi's next game when I get back home, another 40 mins before I can leave and i'll take about an hour to drive home 
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EPT
