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Going into this major I didnt have high expectation (high hopes ofc), they play rather well at times, and the synergy will come with more games together.
But one of the negative highlights for me is something the casters pointed out several times, EG's itemazation, and specially on Rtz (He rly does play his official matches like his pubs). He doesnt seem to be able to identify what items are actually game winning.
I hope they go home and scrim alott + watch some VP/LGD replays or something, just to learn how to adapt to the games better.
Edit: I am also curious to how big Rtz hero pool actually is... On the top of my head, cant say Rtz is playing many heroes at the top lvl? Some of these other carry players have such large hero pools and easily adapt to games and draft getting a bit weird.
Im not trying to solo out Rtz as the only problem here. Im actually still positive about this new roster, they need time ofc. But Rtz is the biggest question mark for me 
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I thought EG looked promising. Their play is much more consistent and flexible than it was under Misery, and that's what needs to be done against top teams. They were in winning positions against Optic in both games, and Optic has cemented themselves as a top 8 team in the world.
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rtz is fine, his hero pool is fine, it's funny to say he plays officials like pubs because his itemizations are extremely adaptive in pubs. Watch any stream of his in the last year, he consistently says "ok, if i get <x> this game is won, i need <y> minutes to farm it"
That is not to say that he couldn't be better or doesn't make mistakes, but it's very clear that the problem with this team right now is a team problem. They aren't on the same page, there are obvious communication issues, they're taking engagements out of sync, not waiting for item and ult timings, etc. Both game against Optic appeared winnable and were lost due to those types of issues. Some things obviously could be accounted for by the fact that they've only been a team for a week.
There were some promising things about their play in this tournament but also some very discouraging things. it's frustrating how little info there is about the environment within a team. Makes it impossible to know what's really going on. But it seemed like they went on super tilt after the infamous Jakiro stun in game 2. They seemed to be playing angry + desperate after that, like they didn't even want to be in the game anymore.
Really difficult to like EG anymore but I can't help backing them. Hope they find some kind of success, but at this point I have a sinking feeling that everyone needs a vacation and quite possibly cr1t/rtz/sumail can't be successful on the same team due to interpersonal baggage
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Well, im a newb :D And rtz is a pro, this is just my opinion from watching games. What he does in pubs works there, he is one of the best ladder players in the world, but alott of those things doesnt work against the best teams in the world.
He sstill gets caught alone a little to often, my opinion is he picks the wrong items a little to often too.
But I do agree that there is alott of good things happening with EG, taking into acount that they have been together for a week. Its super hard coming into a tournament like this against the best teams in the world. Optic used many months to find theier groove, and have now become a stable team able to take games of anyone.
Crit was our best player this tournament until the games against Optic, was the SK picks bad? He seemed to struggle alott.
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despite how much i love rtz, no team has ever had consistent success with him in the roster. pains me to say, but drop him.
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On June 06 2018 21:35 Pandemona wrote:
Complexity in same boat though, their roster was out day before EG and Moo is back to position 1 from 3 and they added new offlaner who hasn't played in a pro team all season? Then Adam from coach to 5 who has only played in 1 tourney this year as well.
But i don't feel that they are a million miles away, more they play better they will be. Getting to NA fast and scrimming and getting back "on it" is prio though. Need to leave China tomorrow. Get back to NA and re adjust by Saturday to plan Scrims sunday onwards every day, 2-3 a day!
I agree with the timing & sentiment. The Optic games were pretty illustrative of the issues. Optic is somewhere between the #4 and #7 team in the world right now, with the only team they can't beat being VP. EG played really well in the laning stage in both games, but they got beat in the team fights, rotations and strategy for winning.
In game 2, EG had a minor gold lead for most of the game, because Sumail & Rtz farm efficiently, but they were playing their draft wrong. Nightstalker + DP means they should have been looking to take a tower or a fight every time DP ult was up. Optic drafted to beat the EG's strategy, as Optic would never give up Nightstalker like that, as they get punished in lane with it normally. The fact ppd was letting NS & NP through a NA vs NA draft means they knew where to attack EG in the mid-game, which is exactly where they drafted.
EG even trying to play like VP would be terrifying, but they don't want to do it.
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On June 07 2018 06:19 gulati wrote:
despite how much i love rtz, no team has ever had consistent success with him in the roster. pains me to say, but drop him.
Actually secret 2.0 and old EG pre-suma1l was pretty successful with him(he literally won most tournaments that year despite not winning TI). But that was 2014-2015 during his peak, he's beyond his peak now.
I kinda agree with him playing for other teams though
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Ok so with Optic cruising past TNC they now need to beat Virtus Pro tomorrow to secure their invite to TI and not need to go into the NA qualifiers...can they do it?
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Most likely not. VP is pretty fucking strong compared to TNC
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On June 08 2018 00:08 Pandemona wrote:
Ok so with Optic cruising past TNC they now need to beat Virtus Pro tomorrow to secure their invite to TI and not need to go into the NA qualifiers...can they do it?
Doubt it, they are 1-7 against VP this season, although I'm rooting for them.
On June 07 2018 10:47 Taf the Ghost wrote:
I agree with the timing & sentiment. The Optic games were pretty illustrative of the issues. Optic is somewhere between the #4 and #7 team in the world right now, with the only team they can't beat being VP. EG played really well in the laning stage in both games, but they got beat in the team fights, rotations and strategy for winning.
In game 2, EG had a minor gold lead for most of the game, because Sumail & Rtz farm efficiently, but they were playing their draft wrong. Nightstalker + DP means they should have been looking to take a tower or a fight every time DP ult was up. Optic drafted to beat the EG's strategy, as Optic would never give up Nightstalker like that, as they get punished in lane with it normally. The fact ppd was letting NS & NP through a NA vs NA draft means they knew where to attack EG in the mid-game, which is exactly where they drafted.
EG even trying to play like VP would be terrifying, but they don't want to do it.
In game 2, I think the Sand King was a bad pick, I think I would've liked an off lane Panda and roaming NS. Also, I disagree with s4's itemization; I would've liked to see a pipe instead of crimson first. 33's Visage was shut down, no need to get the crimson early.
However, overall I think their team fight execution is better than it was than under Misery. With Misery it seemed EG always lacked confidence and wanted to dodge team fights.
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Saying that rtz's itemization sucks is extremely naive.... who cares what a bunch of casters and "analysts" think? Rtz is miles ahead of all of them (including Kyle).
Sumail is doing really well mid, just needs a little more time and then he will start solo killing the likes of ccnc over and over again.
The problem this tournament was that at the start, s4/fly were continuously feeding the enemy safelane. Then once they calmed down, EG played better but they just couldn't close games. I think that Rtz/sumail need to be be on heroes with more playmaking potential.
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Can you guys give them more than a week please? We'll be able to judge reasonably when they play at regionals. This tourney was more about bonding, sharing ideas and getting some chemistry going.
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Tbh I think everyone here is positive, all im seeing here is different noob views of how our team can get better as fast as possible.
@Rodya; Im not sure if your pointing at me, but I never said rtz's itemization sucks? I didnt like the Heart on ck, and I didnt like the Maelstrom being built into a Mjollnir right away, wish he picked up a item between, I also think he got a late bkb in one or two of the games before the games against Optic.
With more practice together, im sure this team will rock!
I just hope they can get thru the NA quals, after that they have alott of time to practice for TI.
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On June 08 2018 03:51 Pontual wrote:
Can you guys give them more than a week please? We'll be able to judge reasonably when they play at regionals. This tourney was more about bonding, sahring ideas and getting some chemistry going.
What he said.
The qualifiers will a real test, and I hope the bois can get the ball rolling.
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Think the bois bought this on them self, or Sumail did. If you gonna say the king is back after kicking members and bringing in new guys, you better preform from the start. Sumail has been acting liked a spoiled teenager for too long now " I wanna play Offlane" kick Univers then "Mid looks fun again" kick Misery move/kick fear.
Think he should learn to preform before bragging or people have a right to say shit about his lackluster play.
Otherwise i find it sad that Cr1t played out of his mind, but had play that got the loss in final game, but will say that the 4 others didn't have to follow troop and get team wiped so also on them.
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On June 08 2018 20:27 Sapaio wrote:
Think the bois bought this on them self, or Sumail did. If you gonna say the king is back after kicking members and bringing in new guys, you better preform from the start. Sumail has been acting liked a spoiled teenager for too long now " I wanna play Offlane" kick Univers then "Mid looks fun again" kick Misery move/kick fear.
Think he should learn to preform before bragging or people have a right to say shit about his lackluster play.
Otherwise i find it sad that Cr1t played out of his mind, but had play that got the loss in final game, but will say that the 4 others didn't have to follow troop and get team wiped so also on them.
You're making a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions/claims about Sumail. The switch to offlane was a team decision iirc (Sumail talked about it an interview back then, and said the team knew it was a risky move that could not pay off but they were desperate for a shakeup), Fear wasn't kicked but left after EG found out they can get Fly together with s4 and probably due to the fact that he's just become a dad. As for Misery, we don't really know besides the fact that the team wasn't working with him at the helm so he was kicked. Sumail is an arrogant fellow, but please don't bash players just for the sake of it.
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On June 08 2018 16:04 PoulsenB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2018 03:51 Pontual wrote:
Can you guys give them more than a week please? We'll be able to judge reasonably when they play at regionals. This tourney was more about bonding, sahring ideas and getting some chemistry going.
What he said. The qualifiers will a real test, and I hope the bois can get the ball rolling.
You should really root for Optic this Supermajor then. As if Optic are playing qualifiers, EG will have a hard time.
As for Rtz, i've already said what i think:
Rtz = Envy = Fan Favourite = Sorry.
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On June 08 2018 21:51 PoulsenB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2018 20:27 Sapaio wrote:
Think the bois bought this on them self, or Sumail did. If you gonna say the king is back after kicking members and bringing in new guys, you better preform from the start. Sumail has been acting liked a spoiled teenager for too long now " I wanna play Offlane" kick Univers then "Mid looks fun again" kick Misery move/kick fear.
Think he should learn to preform before bragging or people have a right to say shit about his lackluster play.
Otherwise i find it sad that Cr1t played out of his mind, but had play that got the loss in final game, but will say that the 4 others didn't have to follow troop and get team wiped so also on them. You're making a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions/claims about Sumail. The switch to offlane was a team decision iirc (Sumail talked about it an interview back then, and said the team knew it was a risky move that could not pay off but they were desperate for a shakeup), Fear wasn't kicked but left after EG found out they can get Fly together with s4 and probably due to the fact that he's just become a dad. As for Misery, we don't really know besides the fact that the team wasn't working with him at the helm so he was kicked. Sumail is an arrogant fellow, but please don't bash players just for the sake of it.
Yes think the team made Sumail move to offlane to shake things up, but also for Sumail to find motivation.
Regarding Fear. If you heard/saw Misery interview after he was kicked, he said Fear told him that he also was kicked. Of cause the official team story is different, and Misery could be laying but didn't really seem to have bad blood towards the team. Also said that RTZ and Sumail pretty much run the team, so hard to be captain for him.
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With Optic out of the Supermajor, the NA quals is stacked. EG needs to bring their A game, because both Optic and VJG.S is looking very scary.
EDIT: there's rumours swirling about the disbanding of VGJ.T (idk if this is true), but if it is, then Optic (9th in the DPC Ranking) could've been invited instead.
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Does the open qual have sending, because it doesn't make sense if it have to me, so that is scary. Because only semi and final are BO3. So could meet good team in BO1.
How many teams will make it through each region? If only 1 then 14 teams only at TI.
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EPT
