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On June 18 2014 01:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 00:53 hfglgg wrote:
so esl just released their format and schedule.
8 team single elimination with horrible seeding. i expected nothing less from you esl! How do you think the bracket should have been seeded exactly?
i would seed them like this:
upper bracket:
navi / alliance
vici/fnatic
lower bracket:
ig/mouz
eg/c9
i think alliance and ig are the strongest teams there so they should only meet in the finals, navi and fnatic are the weakest teams so they need to be put in different brackets to avoid one side beeing easier than the other. c9 and eg are both relatively equal (eg with a good showing at the summit, c9 with a good showing at dreamhack) but below vg/ig/alliance so they get last spot.
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On June 18 2014 00:53 hfglgg wrote:
so esl just released their format and schedule.
8 team single elimination with horrible seeding. i expected nothing less from you esl!
´
this is jsut how it is.
to be the champion you have to beat all of the other teams, so in terms of competition there isnt really a difference.
so in terms of (prize-)money, they should have a minimum of money they already won, when they qualifyed PLUS the journey + hotel should be payed by the tournament.
so you already achieved enough that the money isnt the real big issue anymore.
just for the record. when germany got 2nd place in fifa world cup against brazil (i believe it to be in 2006) they only got into the finals, because the groups were filled with underdog teams, while brazil had to fight throu the creme de la creme of the world.
so thats pretty much a common thing in sports, which is decided by the random factors when the groups and seeds get rolled.
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On June 18 2014 01:32 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 01:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On June 18 2014 00:53 hfglgg wrote:
so esl just released their format and schedule.
8 team single elimination with horrible seeding. i expected nothing less from you esl! How do you think the bracket should have been seeded exactly? i would seed them like this: upper bracket: navi / alliance vici/fnatic lower bracket: ig/mouz eg/c9 i think alliance and ig are the strongest teams there so they should only meet in the finals, navi and fnatic are the weakest teams so they need to be put in different brackets to avoid one side beeing easier than the other. c9 and eg are both relatively equal (eg with a good showing at the summit, c9 with a good showing at dreamhack) but below vg/ig/alliance so they get last spot.
That isn't how seeding works. Navi and Alliance were invited so they're the #1 and #2 seed and on opposite sides of the bracket. C9 were the weakest qualifier so they play the #1 seed Alliance and then the rest of the bracket is seeded randomly. You don't seed the bracket how you think the results should turn out ^_^
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On June 18 2014 01:36 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 01:32 hfglgg wrote:On June 18 2014 01:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On June 18 2014 00:53 hfglgg wrote:
so esl just released their format and schedule.
8 team single elimination with horrible seeding. i expected nothing less from you esl! How do you think the bracket should have been seeded exactly? i would seed them like this: upper bracket: navi / alliance vici/fnatic lower bracket: ig/mouz eg/c9 i think alliance and ig are the strongest teams there so they should only meet in the finals, navi and fnatic are the weakest teams so they need to be put in different brackets to avoid one side beeing easier than the other. c9 and eg are both relatively equal (eg with a good showing at the summit, c9 with a good showing at dreamhack) but below vg/ig/alliance so they get last spot. That isn't how seeding works. Navi and Alliance were invited so they're the #1 and #2 seed and on opposite sides of the bracket. C9 were the weakest qualifier so they play the #1 seed Alliance and then the rest of the bracket is seeded randomly. You don't seed the bracket how you think the results should turn out ^_^
Exactly how I see it.
Are we even sure it was a seeding process and now just random draw?(tried looking for info just couldn't find it)
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also of fucking course its single elimination
unless of course you do want bo1's all the way to the finals i guess but then ur just dumb
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On June 18 2014 01:33 ScarPe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 00:53 hfglgg wrote:
so esl just released their format and schedule.
8 team single elimination with horrible seeding. i expected nothing less from you esl! ´ this is jsut how it is. to be the champion you have to beat all of the other teams, so in terms of competition there isnt really a difference. so in terms of (prize-)money, they should have a minimum of money they already won, when they qualifyed PLUS the journey + hotel should be payed by the tournament. so you already achieved enough that the money isnt the real big issue anymore. just for the record. when germany got 2nd place in fifa world cup against brazil (i believe it to be in 2006) they only got into the finals, because the groups were filled with underdog teams, while brazil had to fight throu the creme de la creme of the world. so thats pretty much a common thing in sports, which is decided by the random factors when the groups and seeds get rolled.
in a winner takes it all tournament i would agree but seeding makes it easier to end up higher. in this tournament navi has a billion times easier road to get second place than c9.
and i heavily disagree that your invited teams have to be #1 and #2. in general you invite the strongest teams but here the teams were invited for their name alone, there is no reason to give one team a seeding advantage just because they have a name.
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On June 18 2014 01:38 Meser87 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 01:36 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On June 18 2014 01:32 hfglgg wrote:On June 18 2014 01:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On June 18 2014 00:53 hfglgg wrote:
so esl just released their format and schedule.
8 team single elimination with horrible seeding. i expected nothing less from you esl! How do you think the bracket should have been seeded exactly? i would seed them like this: upper bracket: navi / alliance vici/fnatic lower bracket: ig/mouz eg/c9 i think alliance and ig are the strongest teams there so they should only meet in the finals, navi and fnatic are the weakest teams so they need to be put in different brackets to avoid one side beeing easier than the other. c9 and eg are both relatively equal (eg with a good showing at the summit, c9 with a good showing at dreamhack) but below vg/ig/alliance so they get last spot. That isn't how seeding works. Navi and Alliance were invited so they're the #1 and #2 seed and on opposite sides of the bracket. C9 were the weakest qualifier so they play the #1 seed Alliance and then the rest of the bracket is seeded randomly. You don't seed the bracket how you think the results should turn out ^_^ Exactly how I see it. Are we even sure it was a seeding process and now just random draw?(tried looking for info just couldn't find it)
ESL doesn't say anything about it on the announcement, but I can't imagine them randomly generating the most logical way to seed the bracket.
On June 18 2014 01:48 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 01:33 ScarPe wrote:On June 18 2014 00:53 hfglgg wrote:
so esl just released their format and schedule.
8 team single elimination with horrible seeding. i expected nothing less from you esl! ´ this is jsut how it is. to be the champion you have to beat all of the other teams, so in terms of competition there isnt really a difference. so in terms of (prize-)money, they should have a minimum of money they already won, when they qualifyed PLUS the journey + hotel should be payed by the tournament. so you already achieved enough that the money isnt the real big issue anymore. just for the record. when germany got 2nd place in fifa world cup against brazil (i believe it to be in 2006) they only got into the finals, because the groups were filled with underdog teams, while brazil had to fight throu the creme de la creme of the world. so thats pretty much a common thing in sports, which is decided by the random factors when the groups and seeds get rolled. in a winner takes it all tournament i would agree but seeding makes it easier to end up higher. in this tournament navi has a billion times easier road to get second place than c9. and i heavily disagree that your invited teams have to be #1 and #2. in general you invite the strongest teams but here the teams were invited for their name alone, there is no reason to give one team a seeding advantage just because they have a name.
You can disagree if you want, but teams are invited and bypass the qualifiers because they're the best. Some team is always going to have the easiest bracket run.
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Are you really surprised that it is single elimination for a 2 day tournament?
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yeah but sometimes teams that were the best month ago arent so anymore and then the system needs adjustment.
and seeding in other sports are done in a way to have the best possible outcome. if you take the worldcup for example, the brackets are done in a way that the final will be germany - spain if both have the expected results in the group stage. you dont have them randomly meat in the quarterfinals for no appearent reason.
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There isn't a worldwide ranking to make sure that 1-2 are in diff brackets.
Na'Vi and alliance were the invites therefore ranked 1-2 therefore diff brackets. Just because u dont think they are the best two teams doesn't mean the seeding is wrong. (Obviously they aren't the best two teams, but the seeding can still be right).
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On June 18 2014 01:53 hfglgg wrote:
yeah but sometimes teams that were the best month ago arent so anymore and then the system needs adjustment.
and seeding in other sports are done in a way to have the best possible outcome. if you take the worldcup for example, the brackets are done in a way that the final will be germany - spain if both have the expected results in the group stage. you dont have them randomly meat in the quarterfinals for no appearent reason.
Germany and Spain are the #1 and #2 seed according to the fifa world ranking. How is this different from the ESL bracket seeding?
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On June 18 2014 02:02 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 01:53 hfglgg wrote:
yeah but sometimes teams that were the best month ago arent so anymore and then the system needs adjustment.
and seeding in other sports are done in a way to have the best possible outcome. if you take the worldcup for example, the brackets are done in a way that the final will be germany - spain if both have the expected results in the group stage. you dont have them randomly meat in the quarterfinals for no appearent reason. Germany and Spain are the #1 and #2 according to the fifa world ranking. How is this different from the ESL bracket seeding?
navi isnt #1 or #2 in dota.
teams dont get invited to the worldcup, they have to qualify. if you dont have qualifier or dont have qualifier for all teams you need to make adjustments to have the outcome you want.
in this case it would help much just do swap the ig/mouz and vg/fnatic game. at the moment the lower bracket is ten times easier than the upper bracket
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You go realize that the groups were drawn somewhat randomly, it would have been entirely possible that germany and spain would play eachother in the quarter final already.
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Only thing that was sure is Brasil being in Group A
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On June 18 2014 02:04 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 02:02 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On June 18 2014 01:53 hfglgg wrote:
yeah but sometimes teams that were the best month ago arent so anymore and then the system needs adjustment.
and seeding in other sports are done in a way to have the best possible outcome. if you take the worldcup for example, the brackets are done in a way that the final will be germany - spain if both have the expected results in the group stage. you dont have them randomly meat in the quarterfinals for no appearent reason. Germany and Spain are the #1 and #2 according to the fifa world ranking. How is this different from the ESL bracket seeding? navi isnt #1 or #2 in dota. teams dont get invited to the worldcup, they have to qualify. if you dont have qualifier or dont have qualifier for all teams you need to make adjustments to have the outcome you want. in this case it would help much just do swap the ig/mouz and vg/fnatic game. at the moment the lower bracket is ten times easier than the upper bracket
You don't give teams seeds to make the bracket symmetrical difficulty wise. Feel free to rejoin this conversation when you understand what seeding is.
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Baltimore, USA22261 Posts
On June 17 2014 18:10 Qbek wrote:game was bad. Then we won. Unranked dota is full of miracles
Holy hell. That Alch's team should be furious with him. Was he in jungle for 50 minutes straight? He is your miracle. :-P
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1,7k hero dmg and 486gpm hahahah oh god
you were playing 4v5 thats why you won
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
Ok, the only thing I call collusion ball for the group drawings are France's group. That seems so fucking wack, but the rest seems fine to be (ie, they weren't sipping the collusion juice during the group drawings)
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eu servers are awful. I instantly hit random and get sniper. Team drafts 0 supports and I end up jungling.
we still win.
people also don't know when to give up my current game is awful too
edit: so queues are half the time of NA but its all EU 4.5ks :x
eu update 2: 0-5 "smurf" ta
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EPT
