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Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
April 16 2012 17:16 GMT
#7961
On April 17 2012 01:58 crms wrote:
Eric Tams from Valve wasn't lying when he said if you queue with a party of big skill differential the MM basically breaks...


I almost always duo queue with my friend, I'm assuming we're in the 'high' range of the 'high' bracket as we generally play vs. the known NADL players, NA pros, and well known pub stompers. I track our stats in excel (cause im a nerd and valve doesn't show us shit) and I tracked a 50 game set. We went 40-10 over this set, that's 78.4% win, pretty good!

This weekend we decided to play with our 'newer' friend but hes a pretty decent player, just only has like 50 wins or so, maybe 70-80 games total. He's much lower in MMR for obvious reasons and queueing with him was a nightmare... We went from a 50 game set of 40-10, to a 13 game set of 2-11. Everygame we got was worse then the next. Our teammates literally had no idea what dota was, yet we still got matched vs good/decent players. We got against jeyo and daisy crew, fogged/solace crew, and other random known players yet we were queueing with our newb friend. The worst part was our teammates were even worse then our 'new' friend. None of the loses were really his fault, but moreso the randoms they matched us up with.

I know it's only beta and I shouldn't give a shit about winning but I honestly can't queue with my friend. The games are complete shit. At least valve acknowledges that the MM breaks when you queue outside your skill range, but I hope they come up with a good fix. It's literally miserably unfun at best to unwinable at worst if I play with my lower level friends.

To be clear this wasn't a stack, just my duo partner +1. Breaks the fuck out of MM.



Well what do you want the game to do?

Scenario 1. You get matched vs reasonably good people so you and your duo partner can't smash through the enemy and blow out the game. You end up losing mostly because you have some 'dead' weight
Scenario 2. You get matched vs newbies like your +1 and you smash through players with no chance of them winning at all because it's so easy for you and your duo partner to just carry away games.
Scenario 3. The game finds a random newb for the other team to balance things out so each team has one really new/bad player.

In any case it's going to suck for SOMEONE. They decide to make it suck for the person causing the problem in the first place. yeah it sucks you can't queue with your friend and win at the same time, but what do you expect when you're split across a large MMR game. Queue with him enough and your MMR will stabilize at a point where you guys get good matches.

MMR isn't your skill, it's the skill of you + the people you queue with. If you queue with a low tier player then your MMR is going to reflect that as it should.
Logo
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
April 16 2012 17:18 GMT
#7962
On April 17 2012 02:16 rabidch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2012 02:09 konadora wrote:
On April 17 2012 02:05 NB wrote:
wait why yaphets has an USA flag in the wodota video?

okay so i wasnt the only one who noticed that lol

you guys are extremely fail...

why? am i missing out on some news?
POGGERS
cilinder007
Profile Joined August 2010
Slovenia7251 Posts
April 16 2012 17:29 GMT
#7963
Dendi instructional on dendi's stream !!!
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
April 16 2012 17:34 GMT
#7964
On April 17 2012 02:16 Logo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2012 01:58 crms wrote:
Eric Tams from Valve wasn't lying when he said if you queue with a party of big skill differential the MM basically breaks...


I almost always duo queue with my friend, I'm assuming we're in the 'high' range of the 'high' bracket as we generally play vs. the known NADL players, NA pros, and well known pub stompers. I track our stats in excel (cause im a nerd and valve doesn't show us shit) and I tracked a 50 game set. We went 40-10 over this set, that's 78.4% win, pretty good!

This weekend we decided to play with our 'newer' friend but hes a pretty decent player, just only has like 50 wins or so, maybe 70-80 games total. He's much lower in MMR for obvious reasons and queueing with him was a nightmare... We went from a 50 game set of 40-10, to a 13 game set of 2-11. Everygame we got was worse then the next. Our teammates literally had no idea what dota was, yet we still got matched vs good/decent players. We got against jeyo and daisy crew, fogged/solace crew, and other random known players yet we were queueing with our newb friend. The worst part was our teammates were even worse then our 'new' friend. None of the loses were really his fault, but moreso the randoms they matched us up with.

I know it's only beta and I shouldn't give a shit about winning but I honestly can't queue with my friend. The games are complete shit. At least valve acknowledges that the MM breaks when you queue outside your skill range, but I hope they come up with a good fix. It's literally miserably unfun at best to unwinable at worst if I play with my lower level friends.

To be clear this wasn't a stack, just my duo partner +1. Breaks the fuck out of MM.



Well what do you want the game to do?

Scenario 1. You get matched vs reasonably good people so you and your duo partner can't smash through the enemy and blow out the game. You end up losing mostly because you have some 'dead' weight
Scenario 2. You get matched vs newbies like your +1 and you smash through players with no chance of them winning at all because it's so easy for you and your duo partner to just carry away games.
Scenario 3. The game finds a random newb for the other team to balance things out so each team has one really new/bad player.

In any case it's going to suck for SOMEONE. They decide to make it suck for the person causing the problem in the first place. yeah it sucks you can't queue with your friend and win at the same time, but what do you expect when you're split across a large MMR game. Queue with him enough and your MMR will stabilize at a point where you guys get good matches.

MMR isn't your skill, it's the skill of you + the people you queue with. If you queue with a low tier player then your MMR is going to reflect that as it should.



Yeah I suppose you're right. I'm not sure how the system should match it up. Maybe once the playerbase is very large it can make very accurate like 2+1 with other 2+1s then give each team reasonably close allies. However, playerbase is so low in beta that the queue doesn't want to have you sit in 25m queue waiting for perfect matchup. I think best bet is to just help my friend get higher MM, so he can queue with us and get good games like we normally do when we queue just me and duo friend.
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
April 16 2012 17:58 GMT
#7965
just take a quick look at dev forum. it looks like they are taking out a lot of stuff that are considered 'bugs' in dota1 due to engine limited. A lot of these minor things are game changing too: morph gain HP while under AA's ulti by agi->str, manual orb attack wake nightmare unit, etc...
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
April 16 2012 18:22 GMT
#7966
On April 17 2012 02:58 NB wrote:
just take a quick look at dev forum. it looks like they are taking out a lot of stuff that are considered 'bugs' in dota1 due to engine limited. A lot of these minor things are game changing too: morph gain HP while under AA's ulti by agi->str, manual orb attack wake nightmare unit, etc...

mm... as lots of these "bugs" get "fixed", i'm not sure if all the dota 1 (esp those from china) teams would want to switch
POGGERS
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34503 Posts
April 16 2012 18:43 GMT
#7967
On April 17 2012 02:18 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2012 02:16 rabidch wrote:
On April 17 2012 02:09 konadora wrote:
On April 17 2012 02:05 NB wrote:
wait why yaphets has an USA flag in the wodota video?

okay so i wasnt the only one who noticed that lol

you guys are extremely fail...

why? am i missing out on some news?

I just figured it was a guy copying his name.
Moderator
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
April 16 2012 19:10 GMT
#7968
On April 17 2012 03:22 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2012 02:58 NB wrote:
just take a quick look at dev forum. it looks like they are taking out a lot of stuff that are considered 'bugs' in dota1 due to engine limited. A lot of these minor things are game changing too: morph gain HP while under AA's ulti by agi->str, manual orb attack wake nightmare unit, etc...

mm... as lots of these "bugs" get "fixed", i'm not sure if all the dota 1 (esp those from china) teams would want to switch

how is that morph gain HP a bug... its not a form of real hp regen -_-
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
April 16 2012 19:21 GMT
#7969
I think they have to find a way to include bugs & limitations from the wc3 engine in their own engine, or the balance will change too much. Well, while it's in beta it's ok I guess.
Ack1027
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States7873 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-16 19:25:22
April 16 2012 19:24 GMT
#7970
Last two pages lol?

1. Ya nobody knows who yaphets is, that guy was totally yaphets and he's from america no mistake there.
2. ' I don't care about wins yet I keep track of my win loss in excel ' I also need a 50+ game narrative to deduce that people that are already better than me would beat me. Obviously if we are talking only skilled players parties of 3 or 5 are best. Parties of 2 with lots of games and pretty much set mmr will get paired with similar 3 parties of ' high skill '. Hardly anyone in ' high mmr ' solo queues the majority of the time, so parties of 1 and 4 usually result in terrible games.
3. Morph doesn't gain hp when he str morphs. It keeps a % of his health the same as he converts stats. More health max = more current health to keep the same ratio. Honestly? You really consider this a bug? Lmao.... I guess the fountain is bugged too cuz it heals you at the same rate no matter what your max hp is. Edit: Oh ya don't forget the super bugged Juggernaut healing ward. Damn stupid bugs.

konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
April 16 2012 19:25 GMT
#7971
wow so much unnecessary sarcasm there, mate
POGGERS
Yoshi-
Profile Joined October 2008
Germany10227 Posts
April 16 2012 19:26 GMT
#7972
...
in dota1 morphling wouldn't gain any hp while under the effect of ice blast(when he morphs from agi to str)
in dota2 this does happen
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
April 16 2012 19:27 GMT
#7973
On April 17 2012 04:26 Yoshi- wrote:
...
in dota1 morphling wouldn't gain any hp while under the effect of ice blast(when he morphs from agi to str)
in dota2 this does happen

yeah this was what we were talking about...
POGGERS
Ack1027
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States7873 Posts
April 16 2012 19:30 GMT
#7974
On April 17 2012 04:26 Yoshi- wrote:
...
in dota1 morphling wouldn't gain any hp while under the effect of ice blast(when he morphs from agi to str)
in dota2 this does happen


• HP freeze prevents most kinds of healing including those from skills or items.

Morph's stat morph is not healing, its intended to keep the same hp %. If you are at 50% hp and then drop a vanguard, you should still be at 50% hp.

So in fact, what you're complaining about as a bug is not even a bug, its just following the rules of AA's ulti.

Buff?
cilinder007
Profile Joined August 2010
Slovenia7251 Posts
April 16 2012 19:33 GMT
#7975
I guess the fountain is bugged too cuz it heals you at the same rate no matter what your max hp is


From Playdota : It should be noted that the mana and HP regeneration provided by the fountains is percentage based, (4% per second) and as such they don’t take longer to heal a hero with higher maximum life than others
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-16 19:37:44
April 16 2012 19:37 GMT
#7976
On April 17 2012 04:30 Ack1027 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2012 04:26 Yoshi- wrote:
...
in dota1 morphling wouldn't gain any hp while under the effect of ice blast(when he morphs from agi to str)
in dota2 this does happen


• HP freeze prevents most kinds of healing including those from skills or items.

Morph's stat morph is not healing, its intended to keep the same hp %. If you are at 50% hp and then drop a vanguard, you should still be at 50% hp.

So in fact, what you're complaining about as a bug is not even a bug, its just following the rules of AA's ulti.

Buff?

And, to respond to your condescending tone, the problem here-in-lies that there is an inconsistency issue between dota 1 and dota 2, and the inconsistency lies in the engine limitation of WC3. The question remains, should we stick with the dota 1 trend and cling to the WC3 engine as close as we can, or stick with how it works in Dota 2?

That or I don't understand anything.
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
cilinder007
Profile Joined August 2010
Slovenia7251 Posts
April 16 2012 19:37 GMT
#7977
I guess they could make it the same as dota1 if they wanted and they didnt
Ack1027
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States7873 Posts
April 16 2012 19:38 GMT
#7978
Is English your first language Cilinder? I ask because I think you failed to understand what you quoted in context. 4% per second regardless of hp = ' same rate no matter what your max hp is '
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-16 19:41:42
April 16 2012 19:39 GMT
#7979
On April 17 2012 04:30 Ack1027 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2012 04:26 Yoshi- wrote:
...
in dota1 morphling wouldn't gain any hp while under the effect of ice blast(when he morphs from agi to str)
in dota2 this does happen


• HP freeze prevents most kinds of healing including those from skills or items.

Morph's stat morph is not healing, its intended to keep the same hp %. If you are at 50% hp and then drop a vanguard, you should still be at 50% hp.

So in fact, what you're complaining about as a bug is not even a bug, its just following the rules of AA's ulti.

Buff?


So, you are agreeing with everyone? It was a bug in Dota 1, it could be fixed in Dota 2, but these kind of bug fixes may lead to balance changes and we should consider porting bugs to keep both games equal? I didn't see anyone saying it was a bug in Dota 2.

And he does gain health points, if you increase your max HP and keep the same %, you end up with more HPs. That's not the same as saying you are healed.
Ganfei2
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
473 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-16 19:41:36
April 16 2012 19:39 GMT
#7980
On April 17 2012 04:24 Ack1027 wrote:
Last two pages lol?

1. Ya nobody knows who yaphets is, that guy was totally yaphets and he's from america no mistake there.
2. ' I don't care about wins yet I keep track of my win loss in excel ' I also need a 50+ game narrative to deduce that people that are already better than me would beat me. Obviously if we are talking only skilled players parties of 3 or 5 are best. Parties of 2 with lots of games and pretty much set mmr will get paired with similar 3 parties of ' high skill '. Hardly anyone in ' high mmr ' solo queues the majority of the time, so parties of 1 and 4 usually result in terrible games.
3. Morph doesn't gain hp when he str morphs. It keeps a % of his health the same as he converts stats. More health max = more current health to keep the same ratio. Honestly? You really consider this a bug? Lmao.... I guess the fountain is bugged too cuz it heals you at the same rate no matter what your max hp is. Edit: Oh ya don't forget the super bugged Juggernaut healing ward. Damn stupid bugs.



Did someone insult you or are you always so whiney and mad about things that are in now way personally connected to you

edit: oh nice I read some more of your replies, insulting some guy with Slovenia as his country regarding whether or not English is his first laguage, etc. Good shit. Mods here have gotten a hell of a lot more lenient huh.
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