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On May 03 2013 05:09 RageBot wrote:
In a game with DS, Gyro, SD, Lesh and Storm Spirit vs KOTL, PL, Omni, Tusk and Clock, how would you lane? Defensive tri or aggressive?
Sorry, kind of a messy, unorganized post below...its a GD post after all.
Honestly, in this situation I would lane SS mid - reason being that SS mid really only suffers against lineups where
A: the midlaner is a far superior laner.
This isn't true this game, as either Tusk or Clock is going to be in the midlane (likely Tusk).
B: He is really vulnerable to ganks before 6.
Not very true this game either. As long as you have proper vision this game, SS will be free to hit level 6 before ganks, as the supports from Dire side are really quite weak for ganking, and Clock is only effective if you don't have vision over him until he's level 6. SS will at least go even with a Tusk mid, but probably will win it if played by a good SS player.
With laning the side lanes, you have two over arching options - offensive and defensive trilaning.
With offensive trilaning, you have two general strategies:
A: passive "starve the carry" laning. This will be hard to execute, as kotl and Omni both are very defensive, attrition based supports that will slowly wither away on your trilane. Harassment will be mitigated quite well, and their mana advantage + KotL blasts will eventually put you in a disadvantage. PL's farm will suffer for a few levels, but he'll come ahead in the long run. The goal here would be to buy farm with the SS so he can gank the trilane and turn the lane around (maybe TP the DS, or have him solo kill top).
B: Go for kills - this one just basically predicates on the fact that you are able to crush the lane with aggressive killing. This probably won't work this game unless their support players are really bad and get massively out of position consistently, if mainly due to omni. This depends on mistakes from the other team, more than playing well yourselves.
Defensive Trilaning in my opinion works a little better this game.
A: Darkseer will be able to get XP + levels in the offlane as Omni + Kotl aren't really effective at killing him, and while the Ion shell harassment will be mitigated by Omni, Darkseer himself will do pretty well.
B: Getting farm on Gyro is always good, and you can sacrifice giving PL good farm with having a really strong Gyro. You have a really good killing trilane, and can either stop clock from getting all farm, or kill him (depending how good the clock is). Gyro actually scales in a much more comfortable pattern into the midgame than PL does, and if it goes really late all hope isn't lost (unlike with most carries), so this trade isn't horrible.
I think the general strategy for the radiant side should be to go into a defensive trilane, and build up towards a comfortable early-midgame timing push (gank mid around 2-3 minutes with smoked supports, take safelane t1 around ~4-5 minutes) on the dire's safelane (pl lane) around 10-12 minutes (dependent when DS gets Mek), as you have a really solid 5 man team, have an advantage with a strong initiating / ganking diving hero in SS (who will have farm), and the overall team just succeeds at 5 manning a lot more effectively than the other team. The goal should be something like all t2's down around ~20 minutes, aegis around 25, end afterwards with SS aegis + orchid and a BKB Gyro with a damage item.
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On May 03 2013 05:53 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 05:47 cilinder007 wrote:
I dissagree, storm mid can bottle crow and/or control runes whereas safelane he will have less regen, longer time for bottlecrowing therefore he wont get as much farm since unless he makes a roh those heros can harass him down quite a bit and ds can own in the safelane as much as mid and while he could probably have rune control mid they are much better on storm anyway Bottle crowing helps any of those melees against Storm far more than it helps Storm against them. The only hero that has any harassment potential among those heroes without using bottle crow is Clock, and even then, it's not enough to outharass Storm's starting regen items. Omni has no form of harass for this, period, and without bottle crow, Tusk only has mana for 2 Ice Shards.
that just not true, no way starting regen is enough to sustain against a clock with storm if you have no other forms of regen (unless you plan on leaving the lane at lvl 6 with storm which I doubt), esp in the case where clock knows the supports arent coming to gank him
It may look like they cant harass him on paper but im 100% sure in a game he would be running low on regen
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On May 03 2013 06:37 cilinder007 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 05:53 TheYango wrote:On May 03 2013 05:47 cilinder007 wrote:
I dissagree, storm mid can bottle crow and/or control runes whereas safelane he will have less regen, longer time for bottlecrowing therefore he wont get as much farm since unless he makes a roh those heros can harass him down quite a bit and ds can own in the safelane as much as mid and while he could probably have rune control mid they are much better on storm anyway Bottle crowing helps any of those melees against Storm far more than it helps Storm against them. The only hero that has any harassment potential among those heroes without using bottle crow is Clock, and even then, it's not enough to outharass Storm's starting regen items. Omni has no form of harass for this, period, and without bottle crow, Tusk only has mana for 2 Ice Shards. that just not true, no way starting regen is enough to sustain against a clock with storm if you have no other forms of regen, esp in the case where clock knows the supports arent coming to gank him It may look like they cant harass him on paper but im 100% sure in a game he would be running low on regen
If he is fed one set of tangoes, he'd probably be okay. As long as storm is really conscious about his positioning (so he doesn't get harassed by cogs), he'll probably do fine.
Edit: Once bottles get up, I think storm would come ahead in this lane.
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On May 03 2013 06:38 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 06:37 cilinder007 wrote:On May 03 2013 05:53 TheYango wrote:On May 03 2013 05:47 cilinder007 wrote:
I dissagree, storm mid can bottle crow and/or control runes whereas safelane he will have less regen, longer time for bottlecrowing therefore he wont get as much farm since unless he makes a roh those heros can harass him down quite a bit and ds can own in the safelane as much as mid and while he could probably have rune control mid they are much better on storm anyway Bottle crowing helps any of those melees against Storm far more than it helps Storm against them. The only hero that has any harassment potential among those heroes without using bottle crow is Clock, and even then, it's not enough to outharass Storm's starting regen items. Omni has no form of harass for this, period, and without bottle crow, Tusk only has mana for 2 Ice Shards. that just not true, no way starting regen is enough to sustain against a clock with storm if you have no other forms of regen, esp in the case where clock knows the supports arent coming to gank him It may look like they cant harass him on paper but im 100% sure in a game he would be running low on regen If he is fed one set of tangoes, he'd probably be okay. As long as storm is really conscious about his positioning (so he doesn't get harassed by cogs), he'll probably do fine. Edit: Once bottles get up, I think storm would come ahead in this lane.
I think so too with bottle he wins the lane hands down, I just think mid is a bit better for having the bottle
Also I think on the other side I would prefer clock mid so he can get the mek faster and cuz he's a better initiation
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ROFL, update 6th and people still report bugs on dev forum. Seems like ET gona break a record of meepo, going for the 7th patch
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Weren't TI3 qualifiers teams supposed to be announced today?
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On May 03 2013 06:53 cecek wrote:
Weren't TI3 qualifiers teams supposed to be announced today?
It's still Thursday where valve is located. But yes.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On May 03 2013 06:56 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 06:53 cecek wrote:
Weren't TI3 qualifiers teams supposed to be announced today? It's still Thursday where valve is located. But yes.
The western teams were supposed to be announced by the GD studio. I don't know if they're going to announce them past midnight in their timezone.
edit: I guess it's coming soon after all.
"Cristian Tamaş @Trancez0r 2m
TIC TAC TIC TAC who gets in to the TI3 qualifiers? Any minute now."
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United States47024 Posts
On May 03 2013 06:52 cilinder007 wrote:
Also I think on the other side I would prefer clock mid so he can get the mek faster and cuz he's a better initiation
Which begs the question of why you would put Storm mid against him when Storm's matchup against both other possible solos is totally one-sided? If you think the other team is going to run Tusk or Omni off-lane, then why wouldn't you put Storm against them and put the DS mid, who crushes melees regardless?
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On May 03 2013 07:04 cecek wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 06:56 Grettin wrote:On May 03 2013 06:53 cecek wrote:
Weren't TI3 qualifiers teams supposed to be announced today? It's still Thursday where valve is located. But yes. The western teams were supposed to be announced by the GD studio. I don't know if they're going to announce them past midnight in their timezone. edit: I guess it's coming soon after all. "Cristian Tamaş @Trancez0r 2m TIC TAC TIC TAC who gets in to the TI3 qualifiers? Any minute now."
It's The GD Studio, it's not exactly surprising they don't work regular hours to be honest.
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On May 03 2013 07:08 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 06:52 cilinder007 wrote:
Also I think on the other side I would prefer clock mid so he can get the mek faster and cuz he's a better initiation Which begs the question of why you would put Storm mid against him when Storm's matchup against both other possible solos is totally one-sided? If you think the other team is going to run Tusk or Omni off-lane, then why wouldn't you put Storm against them and put the DS mid, who crushes melees regardless?
Honestly, it almost doesn't really matter who you lane against who - both tusk and clock are relatively weak laners. DS does better than SS against both, but I don't think its worth offensive trilaning to begin with.
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On May 03 2013 07:08 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 06:52 cilinder007 wrote:
Also I think on the other side I would prefer clock mid so he can get the mek faster and cuz he's a better initiation Which begs the question of why you would put Storm mid against him when Storm's matchup against both other possible solos is totally one-sided? If you think the other team is going to run Tusk or Omni off-lane, then why wouldn't you put Storm against them and put the DS mid, who crushes melees regardless?
I think the more common thing is to put clock offlane, I just think he would be better mid
On May 03 2013 07:16 Comeh wrote:
but I don't think its worth offensive trilaning to begin with.
This also, but just assuming its an offensive tri
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United States47024 Posts
On May 03 2013 07:16 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 07:08 TheYango wrote:On May 03 2013 06:52 cilinder007 wrote:
Also I think on the other side I would prefer clock mid so he can get the mek faster and cuz he's a better initiation Which begs the question of why you would put Storm mid against him when Storm's matchup against both other possible solos is totally one-sided? If you think the other team is going to run Tusk or Omni off-lane, then why wouldn't you put Storm against them and put the DS mid, who crushes melees regardless? Honestly, it almost doesn't really matter who you lane against who - both tusk and clock are relatively weak laners. DS does better than SS against both, but I don't think its worth offensive trilaning to begin with.
If it's Omni as 4, I agree. If it's Tusk as 4 and Omni as 2/3, I think the offensive tri can be worth it because Tusk's defensive abilities are far weaker than Omni's and a the same time stronger at engaging on a solo off-laner.
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Treads, and 5x Heart legit on Centaur?
Is there a better late game build lol? Most will probably kill themselves just attacking him due to Return.
193 damage (209 with 6 hearts) per hit I believe.
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On May 03 2013 07:38 trinxified wrote:
Treads, and 5x Heart legit on Centaur?
Is there a better late game build lol? Most will probably kill themselves just attacking him due to Return.
6 hearts > 5 hearts
Your ult gives you MS so who needs boots, right?
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On May 03 2013 01:19 cecek wrote:
Is it a bug that banishment spells like Astral Imprisonment or Disruption (no clue what's the correct term) don't prolong stuns and other conditions, or is it just a change? In WC3 DotA when Beastmaster roars your ally, and half a second after you disrupt him, when he comes out of the disruption he will be still stunned for 1.5s. In Dota 2 he will not be stunned after the disruption. You could also do tricks with salves, because you still got healed when disrupted, but the duration of the salve didn't tick down during the disruption.
I honestly think that's the biggest change from WC3 DotA to Dota 2.
It's because (I think), in dota astral or disruption remove the hero from the map, literally, so basically when you cast disruption on someone, his "state" is saved, the hero is removed and then his state is loaded at the end of the spell. I doubt they reproduced that in doto, but they could implement a fix not too hardly I think.
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On May 03 2013 07:40 Dubzex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 07:38 trinxified wrote:
Treads, and 5x Heart legit on Centaur?
Is there a better late game build lol? Most will probably kill themselves just attacking him due to Return. 6 hearts > 5 hearts Your ult gives you MS so who needs boots, right?
I guess you're right lol. A bit of attack speed.  AND some chasing power without ult. You'll never get to stun anyone without boots lol. But then again you don't need that. You just sit at front.
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5 hearts and a satanic. Its not really for the lifesteal, mostly just for the armor... and lifesteal active.
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On May 03 2013 07:38 trinxified wrote:
Treads, and 5x Heart legit on Centaur?
Is there a better late game build lol? Most will probably kill themselves just attacking him due to Return.
193 damage (209 with 6 hearts) per hit I believe.
Drum, S&Y, EUL best build imo =P Then hood/pipe and heart =)
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On May 03 2013 07:41 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 01:19 cecek wrote:
Is it a bug that banishment spells like Astral Imprisonment or Disruption (no clue what's the correct term) don't prolong stuns and other conditions, or is it just a change? In WC3 DotA when Beastmaster roars your ally, and half a second after you disrupt him, when he comes out of the disruption he will be still stunned for 1.5s. In Dota 2 he will not be stunned after the disruption. You could also do tricks with salves, because you still got healed when disrupted, but the duration of the salve didn't tick down during the disruption.
I honestly think that's the biggest change from WC3 DotA to Dota 2. It's because (I think), in dota astral or disruption remove the hero from the map, literally, so basically when you cast disruption on someone, his "state" is saved, the hero is removed and then his state is loaded at the end of the spell. I doubt they reproduced that in doto, but they could implement a fix not too hardly I think.
It's not only when the hero is removed, it's also a "bug" with the pause state that affects heroes under Chronosphere. I'm not sure if all those abilities use that state or there are multiple bugs.
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EPT
