EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 2633
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 22 2013 08:06 Nevuk wrote: So apparently armlet shouldn't give the bear 8hp/s regen or +25 attack speed. If it's fixed to dota 1 status, still worth getting? http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=82408 If it's fixed I don't think it compares well enough to Maelstrom anymore. On April 22 2013 08:14 SKC wrote: So activating it on Dota 1 actually lowers your attack speed? That's weird. And yeah, it clearly makes it a much worse item. Well the thread says: "Inherent abilities are actually the same for both the (Courier Edition) ones and the regular ones, except the regular ones have one more active ability used for conversion between active and inactive." So I assume Courier Edition of Armlet retains the 10% attack speed that the item normally gives. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On April 22 2013 08:14 SKC wrote: So activating it on Dota 1 actually lowers your attack speed? That's weird. And yeah, it clearly makes it a much worse item. Not exactly. If you don't understand how the wc3 engine works this is really challenging to explain, but if you look at the fourth post in that bug report thread you see he has abilities listed out with codes at the end. Those codes are the vexed ability codes that are applied when an armlet is on a real hero. There are several versions of the armlet item. The courier version is a special version of the item so that the courier doesn't get stats or abilities it wouldn't normally have. There should also be a third muted version that is given if your ally picks it up that doesn't provide anything (or it might be the courier version). The real armlet provides all of the abilities. However, the are also multiple versions of those abilities. There are two different actives versions (vexed they appear as I00M and I00N according to the bug report thread). They do different things even though they appear as the same active ability in game. DotA2 is missing the I00N ability apparently which allows the spirit bear to get stats that it wouldn't otherwise obtain. On April 22 2013 08:23 TheYango wrote: Well the thread says: "Inherent abilities are actually the same for both the (Courier Edition) ones and the regular ones, except the regular ones have one more active ability used for conversion between active and inactive." So I assume Courier Edition of Armlet retains the 10% attack speed that the item normally gives. If the attack speed is gray like it says then it shouldn't grant the 15% attack speed. It would be green if the bear had an attack speed boost. That I00R ability might be the innate attack speed actually. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
In Dota 1 you can't really activate it on the bear, but you get what I mean. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On April 22 2013 08:36 SKC wrote: According to that thead, armlet without the active gives attack speed, which should be 15%. It activated gives no attack speed at all, which would mean that even those 15% are negated, effectively lowering your attack speed. In Dota 1 you can't really activate it on the bear, but you get what I mean. The activation itself is meaningless. The active armlet provides an ability conditional on that unit's unit classification. I deleted this bit because there's no good way to explain this facet of wc3 if you have no clue. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On April 22 2013 08:45 SKC wrote: What I really don't understand is why the bear gets the courier version of the item. It shouldn't happen with other items, such as boots, right? The courier version is just a name. They could make a third version of armlet (Should be fourth I think actually) and call it the spirit bear version, but it would be a waste of time. So does an active armlet give 40% attack speed (15% innate+25% from active) or does it just give 25% (15% innate+10% from the active)? Due to the bear interaction it would appear that it would be the latter, but that seems really odd. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On April 22 2013 08:46 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: The courier version is just a name. They could make a third version of armlet and call it the spirit bear version, but it would be a waste of time. Well, yeah, but is the bear version specific for the bear or does it have other uses? Because if it's bear specific it feels like any ability applied or not applied is intentional. Armlet should give 25% activated. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 22 2013 08:46 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: So does an active armlet give 40% attack speed (15% innate+25% from active) or does it just give 25% (15% innate+10% from the active)? Due to the bear interaction it would appear that it would be the latter, but that seems really odd. its 15% + 10% active on heroes. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On April 22 2013 08:47 SKC wrote: Well, yeah, but is the bear version specific for the bear or does it have other uses? Because if it's bear specific it feels like any ability applied or not applied is intentional. I'm sure it's intentional that in dota1 the courier and the spirit bear use the same version. It's likely that armlet wasn't ever intended to be used on the bear and it turned into a bug that didn't have an impact on game play so it was kept in the game. Lots of good mechanics are the result of bugs that people liked and didn't fix. This isn't just limited to wc3 either. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On April 22 2013 08:50 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: I'm sure it's intentional that in dota1 the courier and the spirit bear use the same version. It's likely that armlet wasn't ever intended to be used on the bear and it turned into a bug that didn't have an impact on game play so it was kept in the game. Lots of good mechanics are the result of bugs that people liked and didn't fix. This isn't just limited to wc3 either. Yeah, that was what I was wondering at first, is that the only case where the bear gets the courier item, are ther always bear specific items or does he get the same version heroes do? | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On April 22 2013 08:51 SKC wrote: Yeah, that was what I was wondering at first, is that the only case where the bear gets the courier item, are ther always bear specific items or does he get the same version heroes do? That I couldn't tell you without an unprotected version of the map. It is likely they are the same as the hero items though, although I'm not entirely sure since the spirit bear isn't a hero unit. I've never worked on anything that gave non-heroes items before. You may be able to look at the vexed ability codes for boots and see how many there are. If there is one then they all use the same boot. If there is more than one then it is hard to say. It could just be two variants of +50 movespeed on the same item like the armlet active where they are applied via unit classification or there could be two items. It could also be both which would explain why the bear can't toggle the armlet. If you activate an item too fast while the game is executing item swapping then the items go poof. That can't happen if you can't activate the item though. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On April 22 2013 08:54 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: That I couldn't tell you without an unprotected version of the map. It is likely they are the same as the hero items though, although I'm not entirely sure since the spirit bear isn't a hero unit. I've never worked on anything that gave non-heroes items before. It feels weird that they could just give the bear the hero specific armlet but instead chose to give him the courier version for some reason. As far as I know it's the only item that behaves oddly on bear. It's really not important, but ussually you can tell why those weird bugs exist, even if the answer is not really obvious at first. Speaking of that, does Lothars work on the Bear if you give him mana? | ||
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shizaep
Canada2920 Posts
On April 21 2013 19:47 r.Evo wrote: So I didn't report anyone since the last patch but over my last 4 logins I got the "we have recently taken action"-message. Valve, wtf. Pretty much same. Haven't reported people in a few days. Logged in multiple times today with the message appearing each time I logged in. So random people I reported like 2 weeks ago are getting muted now? | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On April 22 2013 08:57 SKC wrote: It feels weird that they could just give the bear the hero specific armlet but instead chose to give him the courier version for some reason. As far as I know it's the only item that behaves oddly on bear. It's really not important, but ussually you can tell why those weird bugs exist, even if the answer is not really obvious at first. Speaking of that, does Lothars work on the Bear if you give him mana? I explained that poorly I guess. The bear would never actually use the hero specific armlet. When he is passed that armlet it changes into something else (remove item, add item) but you can't see it happen. Basically when the lone druid passes the active armlet it is removed from the bear via trigger and a courier version armlet is added via trigger. The same thing happens again if you pass it back; courier version removed and then an armlet is added. A similar thing takes place if you pass another hero your item in that the real one is removed and then a fake one that provides no stats is added. There isn't a way to disable items so you have to workaround by having many of the same item. Some abilities work this way as well like Nightstalker's hunter of the night aura. There are five levels of his aura and one of them provides zero stats that is added during the day and replaced at night by the proper level. Apparently armlet was actually fixed a year ago, but they didn't have the interaction exactly right so it is broken in a different way ^_^ Yay obscure engine. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
On April 22 2013 09:16 shizaep wrote: Pretty much same. Haven't reported people in a few days. Logged in multiple times today with the message appearing each time I logged in. So random people I reported like 2 weeks ago are getting muted now? I doubt it's actually happening. Maybe Valve is putting out that message for everyone, to think they are actually banning people, but not really. EDIT: message is always coming up on every login. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
Harvard has a little experiment running, a program that will guess your age by analyzing how you click. I can't imagine it working properly when comparing gamers and non-gamers but you might as well try it yourself. =D http://kgajos.eecs.harvard.edu/ag/ e: Ups, 5k. Yay! Scout. Wtf. =( e2: I hit 26 on my first try, 30 on my second. T_T | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On April 22 2013 11:17 r.Evo wrote: I'm not sure if it's big enough for it's own thread in S&G but it might be fun nevertheless: Harvard has a little experiment running, a program that will guess your age by analyzing how you click. I can't imagine it working properly when comparing gamers and non-gamers but you might as well try it yourself. =D http://kgajos.eecs.harvard.edu/ag/ e: Ups, 5k. Yay! Scout. Wtf. =( It says i am 41....-_- i am maybe mentally that old or because i am not accurate with the clicking using my thinkpad. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Shaella
United States14828 Posts
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