EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 1218
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On October 10 2012 20:57 PrinceXizor wrote: :/ the amount of pushing done from last hitting from a quelling blade vs not doesn't matter. at least get context right guys geez i was saying a quelling blade doesn't = loss of lane control. Of course it doesn't. That's why Yoshi said "hardcore-useless-totally-does-not-apply-in-a-real-game-theory-crafting". But then you kept going on how pushing the lane doesn't matter, and that part was simply wrong. His argument was that the help from QB on denying is minimal and if you want analyze something like this you may as well analyze how it pushes the lane. Drawing a parallel on Shikyo's posts, since this seems to be the trend nowadays, his PL argument started by him saying not getting Doppelwalk until 9 is dumb and that you should get at most 2-3 points in stats. That is actually a pretty fair assesment, specially outside pro games. It's at least not something ridiculous. Then he started making some stupid justifications on how it is good offensively, makes you farm faster, etc. Sometimes the issue isn't even your main argument, but how you go about trying to defend it. Saying pushing lanes doesn't matter because you allies can pull and your offlane hero doesn't need farm anyway is a pretty poor way to defend it. Also, consider how often people "don't understand what you mean", perhaps you are also having issues expressing yourself. Please tell me the context where "pushing the lane shouldn't matter on all lanes" is a valid argument. It would matter if it happened, it just doesn't really happen. You said something wrong and someone called you on it, even if it wasn't the main point of the discussion. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
yoshi said that the increase in denies from a qblade doesn't matter in real games and if you count that increase you have to say it's bad overall because of pushing and i said not only is what you said wrong about it not mattering in real games, but the increase in pushing doesn't matter at all. but 1 guy takes it out on context and suddenly it's a dogpile again. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On October 10 2012 21:20 PrinceXizor wrote: the difference is within context what i said makes perfect sense, outside of context where you guys only seem to try to talk yeah it's silly. Like I edited later one, on which context does pushing the lane on the safe lane doesn't matter because your allies can just pull later on, and on which context does pushing the lane of the hard lane doesn't matter because offlane heroes don't expect to get farm anyway or it doesn't matter for offensive trilanes? | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On October 10 2012 20:47 Incze wrote: To add to this discussion, I found it much better to turn off the auto-attack option (I had previously turned it on because I was too used to it after all those years of dota) and not worry about moving around or using stop, because I would really screw me up sometimes on heroes with fast pre-swing animations, though it does take some time to get used to it. Yep, autoattack off makes laning really more comfortable (imo), but I noticed it gives me problems later in the game, especially in teamfights or against an enemy who change directions non stop to evade me, sometimes I miss my right click and move where I didn't want to. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On October 10 2012 21:22 SKC wrote: Like I edited later one, on which context does pushing the lane on the safe lane doesn't matter because your allies can just pull later on, and on which context does pushing the lane of the hard lane doesn't matter because offlane heroes don't expect to get farm anyway or it doesn't matter for offensive trilanes? the context in which the increase in pushing from a quelling blade (the entire "pushing" in the context of the discussion btw if you were reading the whole thing) is the pushing. a qblades increase in pushing does NOT matter in the safe lane because it's incredibly offset by a pull, the increase in pushing matters 0 in the hard lane because offensive tri's don't give a damn about a potential quarter second faster wave clear (in fact may desire one depending on the tri) and the mid lane is really easy to equalize and a qblade pushing doesn't make a difference there, | ||
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Elasticity
3420 Posts
On October 10 2012 21:23 MrCon wrote: Yep, autoattack off makes laning really more comfortable (imo), but I noticed it gives me problems later in the game, especially in teamfights or against an enemy who change directions non stop to evade me, sometimes I miss my right click and move where I didn't want to. alias "autoa" "autoon" alias "autoon" "dota_player_units_auto_attack 1; alias autoa autooff" alias "autooff" "dota_player_units_auto_attack 0; alias autoa autoon" bind "KP_1" "autoa" Put it in cfg file. Numpad 1 = hotkey for switching auto attack on/off. You can change the hotkey as u want too. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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fleeze
Germany895 Posts
On October 10 2012 21:20 PrinceXizor wrote: the difference is within context what i said makes perfect sense, outside of context where you guys only seem to try to talk yeah it's silly. shikyo didn't HAVE a context. yoshi said that the increase in denies from a qblade doesn't matter in real games and if you count that increase you have to say it's bad overall because of pushing and i said not only is what you said wrong about it not mattering in real games, but the increase in pushing doesn't matter at all. but 1 guy takes it out on context and suddenly it's a dogpile again. you can't make a general statement like "always get quelling with extra random gold" and then complain if people put it into a different "context". If you make general statements, they should also apply generally. the context in which the increase in pushing from a quelling blade (the entire "pushing" in the context of the discussion btw if you were reading the whole thing) is the pushing. a qblades increase in pushing does NOT matter in the safe lane because it's incredibly offset by a pull, the increase in pushing matters 0 in the hard lane because offensive tri's don't give a damn about a potential quarter second faster wave clear (in fact may desire one depending on the tri) and the mid lane is really easy to equalize and a qblade pushing doesn't make a difference there, your arguments make no sense. STOP IT pls. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On October 10 2012 21:25 PrinceXizor wrote: the context in which the increase in pushing from a quelling blade (the entire "pushing" in the context of the discussion btw if you were reading the whole thing) is the pushing. a qblades increase in pushing does NOT matter in the safe lane because it's incredibly offset by a pull, the increase in pushing matters 0 in the hard lane because offensive tri's don't give a damn about a potential quarter second faster wave clear (in fact may desire one depending on the tri) and the mid lane is really easy to equalize and a qblade pushing doesn't make a difference there, If the pushing is minimal, why would you need to pull to fix it? Can't you see how your arguments are confusing? By saying it doesn't matter because a support can pull, anyone that reads it will assume you are talking about meaningfull pushing. You are either really hard to understand or changing your arguments over time, you can probally see that by the amount of people that don't seem to understand what you are saying. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On October 10 2012 21:28 fleeze wrote: you can't make a general statement like "always get quelling with extra random gold" and then complain if people put it into a different "context". If you make general statements, they should also apply generally. your arguments make no sense. STOP IT pls. The fact that an argument broke out over people thinking a Qblade causes a large amount of pushing makes far less sense than anything i've typed. and there someone else goes freaking saying i said something i didn't say. ugh thats just ridiculous people need to read before posting. You guys just want to argue with someone for the sake or arguing even though your argument is based on lies and complete nonsense. On October 10 2012 21:28 SKC wrote: If the pushing is minimal, why would you need to pull to fix it? Can't you see how your arguments are confusing? By saying it doesn't matter because a support can pull, anyone that reads it will assume you are talking about meaningfull pushing. You are either really hard to understand or changing your arguments over time, you can probally see that by the amount of people that don't seem to understand what you are saying. I NEVER said you needed it god damn guys. EVER. i said a single pull far outweighs any pushing a quelling blade will do. and to you saying that MUST me i said you HAVE to pull if you get a qblade or you lose lane control or that i'm somehow changing my argument when it's been the same the entire time you just didn't read the full context at first. I really don't understand whats so difficult about fully reading something before you comment on it. it's basic manners on a forum guys. None of this crap ever needs to happen if you guys decide to read before you type, because seriously it's kind of stupid the amount of out of context and fake quotes being used for no reason over a useless point. | ||
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fleeze
Germany895 Posts
On October 10 2012 21:29 PrinceXizor wrote: The fact that an argument broke out over people thinking a Qblade causes a large amount of pushing makes far less sense than anything i've typed. and there someone else goes freaking saying i said something i didn't say. ugh thats just ridiculous people need to read before posting. You guys just want to argue with someone for the sake or arguing even though your argument is based on lies and complete nonsense. the argument is your own fault for making a wrong general statement. you can expect people to bring cases where it doesn't apply. btw, there are multiple better ways to spend your extra money than a quelling blade. hell even 1-2 gauntlets/slippers/mantle give you nearly the same last hit power in the beginning while also providing secondary benefits. but there is no point in arguing with you. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On October 10 2012 21:36 fleeze wrote: the argument is your own fault for making a wrong general statement. you can expect people to bring cases where it doesn't apply. btw, there are multiple better ways to spend your extra money than a quelling blade. hell even 1-2 gauntlets/slippers/mantle give you the same last hit power while also providing secondary benefits. but there is no point in arguing with you. i didn't say it was the best way. people SAID i said that. this is the problem, someone makes something up and everyones jumps on the fake statement using it to refute the original point. | ||
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Fwizzz
Philippines4420 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/ggnetgodz http://www.twitch.tv/dotatalkstream | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On October 10 2012 21:38 PrinceXizor wrote: i didn't say it was the best way. people SAID i said that. this is the problem, someone makes something up and everyones jumps on the fake statement using it to refute the original point. On October 10 2012 19:49 PrinceXizor wrote: it's probably easier to get to VH with random every game if you are in the top 25% of VH. extra gold gives you such an advantage. free quelling on every hero is pretty good for denying last hitting in lane. This was the first time QB was mentioned. It's not surprising that people though you mean QB is the best item if it is the only thing you talk about in the post. Why would you even mention free QB if that's not actually what you should get? Seriously, unless you start being more clear about what you mean (if that is indeed the issue), people will keep arguing with you. It is simply confusing. And Yoshi never said it pushes the lane. ""hardcore-useless-totally-does-not-apply-in-a-real-game-theory-crafting" means it actually doesn't matter. For someone that acusses everyone of not reading, you should be more critical of yourself. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
Original post: it's probably easier to get to VH with random every game if you are in the top 25% of VH. extra gold gives you such an advantage. free quelling on every hero is pretty good for denying last hitting in lane. Yoshi said qblade doesn't help with denies because it doesn't give damage boost to denies. I said: the idea was dealing much more damage to their creeps frees up time to deny since you are no longer competing with time when the enemy creeps break kill threshold much sooner than allied ones. Did i explain that well. the main reason people miss last hits or denies is timing, it's hard to get every last hit and every deny because you only have so much time, you "get more time" by having the window for one side increase. This was saying that because you can last hit earlier on the enemy creeps it gave you more time to last hit your own creeps for denies. increasing your ability to get denies and last hits simultaneously. Then yoshi said it didn't matter in real games and that qblade pushes lane I said the amount of pushing is laughable to the point it doesn't matter in ANY lane. then 4 people jumped on that comment out of context and then we get a clusterfuck of a thread from people not reading an entire discussion. please i just summarized it, everyone is arguing about shit they agree on please stop, move on. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On October 10 2012 21:25 Knightess wrote: alias "autoa" "autoon" alias "autoon" "dota_player_units_auto_attack 1; alias autoa autooff" alias "autooff" "dota_player_units_auto_attack 0; alias autoa autoon" bind "KP_1" "autoa" Put it in cfg file. Numpad 1 = hotkey for switching auto attack on/off. You can change the hotkey as u want too. Thanks ! :-) | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
Even when I solo mid against no opponent I can't maintain the lane in the middle >< Same for the side lanes, I have a hard time to keep them close to the tower. On the other hand I often manage to pull the long lane close to my tower by denying very early and then tanking the creeps before they enter the range of my tower the time needed for my creeps to arrive. | ||
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