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On October 08 2012 08:20 blahz0r wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 08:17 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 08 2012 08:16 blahz0r wrote:On October 08 2012 08:00 PrinceXizor wrote:
How did i end up in shit tier player level. T_T i have no idea how this mmr works it's horribly inaccurate Maybe it takes into account posting quality. then you'll be in my next game eh? Nope never, maybe on smurf. Seriously though, it happens. I've been paired with people who don't even know basics on like page 1, it's pretty bad.
i was playing good games then i logged on today and bam people who think that stacking orb effects is pro, going dual shadow blades, ect ect ect. i haven't had a team try to push before 50 minutes all day  and i'm talking t1's
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yea VG definitely not a necessary pickup, win lane easy peasy just grab an urn and just go set people on fire
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On October 08 2012 08:27 FinestHour wrote:
yea VG definitely not a necessary pickup, win lane easy peasy just grab an urn and just go set people on fire
get mjolnir, stacks with naplalm, must be good right?
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3030 Posts
On October 08 2012 08:32 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 08:27 FinestHour wrote:
yea VG definitely not a necessary pickup, win lane easy peasy just grab an urn and just go set people on fire get mjolnir, stacks with naplalm, must be good right?
shadowblade + daedalus for big numbers =x
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United States47024 Posts
Vanguard was never necessary on Bat, I don't know why people thought it was.
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if im going to be the one charging headfirst into the midst of battle, brimming with testosterone, armed with my trusty flaming lasso and a vial of some vile flaming concoction, i want to make sure i can take a few hits from the bad guys
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It wasn't necessary, but it was a decent item to get at the time, considering bat's tendencies to dive towers and fairly high base hp in an age when hp regen was also harder to come by without tranq boots or soul ring, iirc it was also back when vanguard was slightly less shit.
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so, what do you suggest instead of vanguard lately? a lot of my friends love the item even tho i tell them it's not that worth the price, but i can't come out with something else decent. i know drums was 'the item' but now that it got nerfed - just a bit, but still - should they go for that instead, or just skip to the next core items?
also i know that people suggest to go for vitality to then complete a heart during late game, but i think this is a harder concept for them, players who complain not being able to carry tp or other consumable items because they have no slots availabe (instead of letting some components home).
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United States47024 Posts
On October 08 2012 08:46 Kupon3ss wrote:
It wasn't necessary, but it was a decent item to get at the time, considering bat's tendencies to dive towers and fairly high base hp in an age when hp regen was also harder to come by without tranq boots or soul ring, iirc it was also back when vanguard was slightly less shit.
I can sort of agree about Bat pre-6.73. But Klonere was talking about Vanguard being unnecessary in the context of the new Strength growth change, which isn't what makes Vanguard unnecessary on Bat. No longer needing RoH or similar regen due to Tranquil's being in the game means that there's only one component of Vanguard to justify it (ranged Stout block sucks and RoH regen is redundant with Tranquils so you really only need the Vit Booster)--that's not enough to justify completing Vanguard over just having the Vit Booster.
On October 08 2012 09:14 babishh wrote:
so, what do you suggest instead of vanguard lately? a lot of my friends love the item even tho i tell them it's not that worth the price, but i can't come out with something else decent. i know drums was 'the item' but now that it got nerfed - just a bit, but still - should they go for that instead, or just skip to the next core items?
also i know that people suggest to go for vitality to then complete a heart during late game, but i think this is a harder concept for them, players who complain not being able to carry tp or other consumable items because they have no slots availabe (instead of letting some components home).
On Bat, or in general?
On Bat, BKB was a much more comfortable survivability item that Vanguard, even before the most recent Vanguard nerf (obviously in the era of ranged Vanguard, Vanguard was much more comfortable overall for any ranged hero)--giving you reliable movement during your ultimate without fear of disables. Vanguard has the advantage of providing regen, which Bat also needs for laning, but Tranquil Boots effectively solved Bat's need for this without having to resort to RoH-based items.
On other Vanguard heroes? It depends a lot on what they were getting Vanguard for. Janggo is still good, even after the nerf, Hood+Vit is still a solid core as well, Tranquil boots are a vastly superior regen item than Vanguard was, etc. It depends on the hero. The thing is a lot of people are building Vanguard "just because" without thinking what components of it are the portions they want. Particularly with expanded options for regen, a lot of heroes only really need the Vanguard for the Vit Booster, which begs the question of why you're finishing the Vanguard when holding the Vit Booster is enough.
Essentially, Vanguard isn't an item you should choose to make just because you can. The item doesn't represent such a big cost-effectiveness gain as it used to, so to justify it, you have to have felt a need for the individual components anyway. Prior to the addition of Tranquil Boots, RoH and Vit were both useful buys for Bat, so the additional cost of a Stout in order to consolidate a slot is acceptable. But the RoH is no longer necessary, so spending the 1125 gold on an RoH+Stout just to build your Vit Booster into something that doesn't even save you a slot seems pointless.
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wand + tranq + vit + tp is only 4 slots tho
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28102 Posts
On October 08 2012 09:32 Dead9 wrote:
wand + tranq + vit + tp is only 4 slots tho
Iron branches are always good 
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Haven't tried the new bat yet but we were talking bat players would be 'jizzing' everywhere (ahem, sorry for the language) once the patch arrived and then bam, two of my mates got beyond godlike in both of our games using bat. With the str gain i don't think bat needs a vanguard, +1 on the vit booster and then complete heart later, all you need is some level advantage and dagger.
edit: assuming you should always solo bat so bottle should be enough (and every hero gets magicwand anyway)
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you dont even need vitality booster with the new strength buff. just go straight bkb. basically by level 7 with an ogre axe (14.2 strength) you already beat out an old level 7 batrider with a vitality booster.
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Generally the build I've seen on Bat from the 2-3 competitive games I watched in depth since the patch (from Orange's Winter or some other matches with orange so it's SEA dota but bat has always been a SEA hero to me)
The build seems to be your generic starting items into stick/boots, wand. If losing the lane they get a tranquils otherwise they go straight for forcestaff/blink (generally getting both). He seems to be being picked against TA a lot and seems to just destroy her mid, all the bats I've seen against TA mid have been 2-3 levels above the TA and totally neglect the tranquils.
Bottle was occasionally picked up but sometimes it was picked up AFTER the force staff. Later in the game the Bat would have pipe, travels, forcestaff, blink. BKB seemed situational (usually swapped out with the pipe).
The longer duration of firefly lets bat have some pretty crazy maneuverability (overall it represents a lower CD firefly) and force staff and blink just take even more advantage of that. Firefly getting off some ticks after Bat's death means that he is able to continue doing tons of damage in a teamfight even if focused first so stacking HP isn't a total necessity for him to have impact.
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bat is one of the best counters to ta in lane hands down
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On October 08 2012 10:21 FinestHour wrote:
bat is one of the best counters to ta in lane hands down
This guy is bad and has no idea what he's talking about.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On October 08 2012 10:27 KillerSOS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 10:21 FinestHour wrote:
bat is one of the best counters to ta in lane hands down
This guy is bad and has no idea what he's talking about. + Show Spoiler +
i know you like our team name ok
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bat can kill anyone in lane at lvl3 if you use your brain. And fuck bkb, go heart/shivas like a true man. And midas.
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On October 08 2012 11:19 Erasme wrote:
bat can kill anyone in lane at lvl3 if you use your brain. And fuck bkb, go heart/shivas like a true man. And midas.
A true man goes thunderhammer because lightning procs stack with napalm
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alch is best pubstomp hero. lothars -> nerub combo on steroids(way longer stun, way way more follow up dmg) , get kills, get armlet mjollnir, kill evryone.
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EPT
