EPTLike working stupidly well, especially if you somehow get it against an enemy trilane.
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
Like working stupidly well, especially if you somehow get it against an enemy trilane. | ||
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gaymon
Germany1023 Posts
On October 07 2012 02:55 Qbek wrote: Ever tried last hitting with jakiro? No way of soloing him lol His animation + projectile speed are actually really good (0.4 Frontswing and 1100 missilespeed, just to compare; rubik has 0.4 and 1125). Additionally his basearmor and hp are better than almost all other solo ints. His range is probably his biggest weakness. Just a personal anecdota but going solo for fast levels and getting quick mek + drums makes you unbelievably tanky and allows you to teamfight/push really well. (And that was before these buffs) edit: damned yango beat me to it | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
On October 07 2012 03:02 Unleashing wrote: Trilane jakiro, perhaps? I could see it working. It's done already, ES + jakiro for double fisure | ||
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
On October 07 2012 02:59 TheYango wrote: His attack animation and damage aren't actually that bad (0.4 second frontswing with 50 average base damage). His piss poor attack range is probably the most prohibitive thing about soloing him (with all these 600 range solo mid heroes, hard to get anywhere with 400 range unless you've got something really good backing up your solo lane ability). That, and there's not a whole lot of need to get solo lane farm on him. I've seen people run veno mid against ta. Perhaps jakiro is the new `counter'. At level one, liquid fire will remove all her refraction charges. | ||
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ChrisXIV
Austria3553 Posts
On October 07 2012 03:05 tauon wrote: I've seen people run veno mid against ta. Perhaps jakiro is the new `counter'. At level one, fire breath will remove all her refraction charges. I thought you needed more than 5 damage to proc Refraction? Edit: You're talking about Liquid Fire, my bad. ^^ | ||
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
On October 07 2012 03:08 ChrisXIV wrote: I thought you needed more than 5 damage to proc Refraction? Liquid fire does 10 damage a second for five seconds. (got mixed up, meant liquid fire not dual breath) | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
I played quite a bit of jakiro mid back in 5 carry days, it's ok but there are a lot of much better heroes | ||
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
On October 07 2012 03:10 Qbek wrote: Jakiro biggest problems are still his turn rate(Only hero you could reliably moon walk in wc3, fixed this patch :C) and casting animation. Also he isn't as good of a counter as veno, veno has it on cooldown less passive with much longer range of attack. I played quite a bit of jakiro mid back in 5 carry days, it's ok but there are a lot of much better heroes Veno's passive won't work against refraction until level 3, by which time Jakiro will have liquid fire on a 10s cd. (Also, I agree jakiro is a terrible mid. I don't even like the veno mid as a counter to ta because he doesn't really stop her farming and he usually just roles over and dies at level 6/7) | ||
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
On October 07 2012 03:15 Yoshi- wrote: Veno passive should remove refraction at lvl 2 Hero level 3 | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On October 07 2012 02:41 TheYango wrote: How is armlet a must on him? Realistically, Armlet is only all that good on non-Lifesteal carries in situations where the enemy has damage that's front-loaded enough for you to Armlet juke (because unless you can reliably juke, it's not superior to other item choices). Which means it's not a must on anyone who's not Lifestealer, Huskar, or Skeleton King. you realize armlets life degen is easily negated by his ult and then whats left is a ton of dmg,life,ias and armor (evrything he needs basicly) for a stupidly low price? plus new 1sec armlet lets you escape death VERY often, its sick good. aaand its super easy to farm up. which item would you skip that for? unless im completly freefarming and can get a 15minute radiance easy its just the perfect item for him. and greatly helps with ganking/midgame and we all know how heavy the focus on this is atm. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On October 07 2012 02:49 Gheizen64 wrote: New shadow blade isn't bad, but i still haven't got an hero where i like it on. It was good before on Kunkka, and still is. Could be decent on Sven for the same reasons it is on Kunkka, 70% is splashed, follow up with stun, if you had God strenght on then u rape. Still haven't played Sven after the patch. Maybe jugger? You can crit the backstab. Well, there's always Bounty Hunter. (kupo's guide over in the strategy section seems even better now). I mean any hero who autoattacks is going to benefit from the WW backstab damage and movement speed. It seems especially good on melee heroes with built in crit, but that's a different story as the question is if they have the mana pool to support use of it (most don't. Jugg, PA, CK, SK all have varying levels of low but all quite low mana pools). For super pub level you can also do some really hilarious stuff with earthshaker and enchant totem. Oh that reminds me... how does shadowblade interact with geminate attack on weaver? My bigger question was more if it was worth getting for the stats alone on a lot of heroes. Getting it to force the other team to buy counter invis items when that's not even the primary reason you got it is just a nice bonus. We're talking about Alchemist right now for example, shadowblade seems like it might actually be a viable item on him now. He has the mana pool to support it and the attack speed and movespeed scales even better with his ult. The changes to the item are just forcing me to step back a bit and evaluate each hero to see what I'm thinking about its viability on them rather than just thinking "trash except on kunkka". edit : I would almost certainly have a BKB over an Armlet on Alchemist in most situations. Some people prefer mjolnir, there are a lot of options. Armlet can also be thought of as negating Alchemists' built in hp regen rather than the other way around. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
On October 07 2012 03:20 FinestHour wrote: solo veno mid vs ta is unheard of, he's usually in a duo lane, no reason for 1v1 with him. if you want a good 1v1 to beat ta with batrider is very strong if you know how to play him but its not too hard EG did it against Mouz one game, veno vs ta. Demon vs SingSing with Demon getting first blood IIRC. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On October 07 2012 03:20 FinestHour wrote: Solo Veno mid vs TA isn't unheard of, i've seen it at least 3 times the past couple of weeks. (in competitive play)solo veno mid vs ta is unheard of, he's usually in a duo lane, no reason for 1v1 with him. if you want a good 1v1 to beat ta with batrider is very strong if you know how to play him but its not too hard | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 07 2012 03:30 FinestHour wrote: would be an awful waste of gold and exp in my opinion, did those teams actually win the game? Realistically, gold on solo mid Veno just turns into the same items that any solo mid 3rd position caster would turn them into: Arcanes, Mek, Pipe, other team items. That's not wasted because regardless of what hero you put there they'd build those same items. XP is a different story, but getting Veno to 7 fast has its own advantages. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
In this post that bulba made On September 27 2012 05:43 BuLba wrote: After the games, I spoke to LGD's yao ( he spoke quite good english and i was pretty close with him) and he said that it was a huge mistake that we solo'd invoker vs TA. The chinese teams all used TA mid just to counter the invoker. Case in point: IG vs DK where super was invoker and ferrari played TA. Zippo's veno babysat Super till the phase boots and ferrari still out csed him later. Fire does better vs TA but it still a huge advantage for the TA. Regardless though, Ferrari laned with TA the best and I watched a lot of his replays from groups/playoffs to see how he csed. It's just quite dumb a hero can cs while denying and harass and get 40 more base damage at lvl 3 than other heroes. I know i got a lot of flack for losing the matchup that hard but I honestly had no idea what to do and looking back, I probably should have let syllabear go mid or asked leshrac to babysit me till phase boots. Exort with early harass and early forge spirit to cs isn't all that bad too but wex-quas gets totally shit on. He pointed this out, I believe that while indeed Veno with farm is good an Invoker will be able to make much more use of it(or other solo mid heroes). Ideally you will want your 2nd position mid more then often either way instead of a 3rd. An 8min meka level 7 Venomancer does have its merits though. In any case, TA laning is a bitch. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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meijin
United States141 Posts
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