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3030 Posts
On October 06 2012 03:24 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
I did, thats why I assumed that he can't
It's as though none of you have read any of the standards for strategy suggestions here at TL
From the SC2 Forums strategy section
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable. Do note that the evidence doesn't have to be my own games. If I say that AM can get naked battle fury by 11min consistantly and then show pajkatt doing that it's fine.
But you didn't, you went based off YOUR EXPERIENCE.
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Another thing. The Bloodstone Divine Rapier medusa build that people laughed at once again, it's not my idea. It's Beesa's:
https://dotabuff.com/players/43908335
He also said BF Medusa is viable, though not optimal. Which I never argued.
People just enjoy them witch hunts and don't even notice that the posts mocking me are far worse in quality than my posts themselves.
On October 06 2012 03:25 blahz0r wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:24 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 03:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
I did, thats why I assumed that he can't
It's as though none of you have read any of the standards for strategy suggestions here at TL
From the SC2 Forums strategy section
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable. Do note that the evidence doesn't have to be my own games. If I say that AM can get naked battle fury by 11min consistantly and then show pajkatt doing that it's fine. But you didn't, you went based off YOUR EXPERIENCE.
I say general things and my experiences. Not all of them are my experiences... Many of my PL stuffs are from ZSMJ for example, though they're old.
Then again it's been forever so I guess it's my impressions of his stuff which of course will get "lost in transmission"
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On October 06 2012 03:24 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
I did, thats why I assumed that he can't
It's as though none of you have read any of the standards for strategy suggestions here at TL
From the SC2 Forums strategy section
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable. Do note that the evidence doesn't have to be my own games. If I say that AM can get naked battle fury by 11min consistantly and then show pajkatt doing that it's fine.
That would be perfectly fine, what is expected, and good discussion, but instead you post like this
On October 05 2012 19:11 Shikyo wrote:
Radiance is so amazing on phantom lancer *_* Clear one wave -> get to clear every camp in the jungle and to clear another wave of the lane while you TP to farm another lane. Pfft at 820 or whatever who says you shouldn't get radi ;o
On October 05 2012 19:22 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 19:16 Prime`Rib wrote:On October 05 2012 19:11 Shikyo wrote:
Radiance is so amazing on phantom lancer *_* Clear one wave -> get to clear every camp in the jungle and to clear another wave of the lane while you TP to farm another lane. Pfft at 820 or whatever who says you shouldn't get radi ;o Drum and Diffusal Blade made him a sick mid game hero. In my opinion if you pick a midgame hero PL is a terrible idea.
On October 06 2012 01:21 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 01:19 Yoshi- wrote:
Why would you go soul ring when you are farming? I wouldn't, I'd probably rush straight radiance with nothing for a 13min radiance etc. However if you do need to lane like in pubs, tranquil + soul ring lets you win it against just about anything I think
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On October 06 2012 03:28 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:24 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 03:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
I did, thats why I assumed that he can't
It's as though none of you have read any of the standards for strategy suggestions here at TL
From the SC2 Forums strategy section
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable. Do note that the evidence doesn't have to be my own games. If I say that AM can get naked battle fury by 11min consistantly and then show pajkatt doing that it's fine. That would be perfectly fine, what is expected, and good discussion, but instead you post like this Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 19:11 Shikyo wrote:
Radiance is so amazing on phantom lancer *_* Clear one wave -> get to clear every camp in the jungle and to clear another wave of the lane while you TP to farm another lane. Pfft at 820 or whatever who says you shouldn't get radi ;o Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 19:22 Shikyo wrote:On October 05 2012 19:16 Prime`Rib wrote:On October 05 2012 19:11 Shikyo wrote:
Radiance is so amazing on phantom lancer *_* Clear one wave -> get to clear every camp in the jungle and to clear another wave of the lane while you TP to farm another lane. Pfft at 820 or whatever who says you shouldn't get radi ;o Drum and Diffusal Blade made him a sick mid game hero. In my opinion if you pick a midgame hero PL is a terrible idea. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 01:21 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 01:19 Yoshi- wrote:
Why would you go soul ring when you are farming? I wouldn't, I'd probably rush straight radiance with nothing for a 13min radiance etc. However if you do need to lane like in pubs, tranquil + soul ring lets you win it against just about anything I think
Can you... point out the problems? The second one is echoing many progamers, don't see the problem. The third one's what I'd do in the situation I don't need soul ring(complete freefarm). What's wrong with those? Would the progamers not go for a 13min radi when given complete freefarm?
The first one you might have a problem with, that I can see. But what's wrong with it? I think it's pretty accurate...
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3030 Posts
On October 06 2012 03:27 Shikyo wrote:Another thing. The Bloodstone Divine Rapier medusa build that people laughed at once again, it's not my idea. It's Beesa's: https://dotabuff.com/players/43908335He also said BF Medusa is viable, though not optimal. Which I never argued. People just enjoy them witch hunts and don't even notice that the posts mocking me are far worse in quality than my posts themselves.
Stomping as a team of 5 means the build is legit? ok...
Maybe you shouldn't act like you know all of dota just because you came from 1300 ELO in LoL. Look at your posting behavior, all of your posts regarding heroes and items give the impression of "I KNOW DOTA".
Last part is your opinion.
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On October 06 2012 03:31 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:28 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 03:24 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 03:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
I did, thats why I assumed that he can't
It's as though none of you have read any of the standards for strategy suggestions here at TL
From the SC2 Forums strategy section
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable. Do note that the evidence doesn't have to be my own games. If I say that AM can get naked battle fury by 11min consistantly and then show pajkatt doing that it's fine. That would be perfectly fine, what is expected, and good discussion, but instead you post like this On October 05 2012 19:11 Shikyo wrote:
Radiance is so amazing on phantom lancer *_* Clear one wave -> get to clear every camp in the jungle and to clear another wave of the lane while you TP to farm another lane. Pfft at 820 or whatever who says you shouldn't get radi ;o On October 05 2012 19:22 Shikyo wrote:On October 05 2012 19:16 Prime`Rib wrote:On October 05 2012 19:11 Shikyo wrote:
Radiance is so amazing on phantom lancer *_* Clear one wave -> get to clear every camp in the jungle and to clear another wave of the lane while you TP to farm another lane. Pfft at 820 or whatever who says you shouldn't get radi ;o Drum and Diffusal Blade made him a sick mid game hero. In my opinion if you pick a midgame hero PL is a terrible idea. On October 06 2012 01:21 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 01:19 Yoshi- wrote:
Why would you go soul ring when you are farming? I wouldn't, I'd probably rush straight radiance with nothing for a 13min radiance etc. However if you do need to lane like in pubs, tranquil + soul ring lets you win it against just about anything I think Can you... point out the problems? The second one is echoing many progamers, don't see the problem. The third one's what I'd do in the situation I don't need soul ring(complete freefarm). What's wrong with those? Would the progamers not go for a 13min radi when given complete freefarm? The first one you might have a problem with, that I can see. But what's wrong with it? I think it's pretty accurate...
On October 06 2012 03:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
I did, thats one of the reasons, along with the fact that he's in a skill bracket with said players to begin with, is why I assumed that he can't
It's as though none of you have read any of the standards for strategy suggestions here at TL
From the SC2 Forums strategy section
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable.
Above is why many posters have issue with Shikyo
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#1 "Yeah, Radiance is awesome because you can farm multiple places at once.", all fine. His post isn't saying "lol 820 sucks at DotA", it's just a stab back at some comments a few pages back.
#2 Yes, there are way better heroes to pick for midgame than PL. Again that statement is valid. What he forgets is that certain builds can - supposedly - make his midgame strong enough to be relevant.
#3 He claims Tranquils+Soul Ring lets you hold up in any lane in pubs. Here I have honestly no clue, but I can see it. He says neither that it's #1 build nor that it's something everyone should do in pubs.
So much drama for nothing. 
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On October 06 2012 03:32 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:31 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 03:28 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 03:24 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 03:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
I did, thats why I assumed that he can't
It's as though none of you have read any of the standards for strategy suggestions here at TL
From the SC2 Forums strategy section
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable. Do note that the evidence doesn't have to be my own games. If I say that AM can get naked battle fury by 11min consistantly and then show pajkatt doing that it's fine. That would be perfectly fine, what is expected, and good discussion, but instead you post like this On October 05 2012 19:11 Shikyo wrote:
Radiance is so amazing on phantom lancer *_* Clear one wave -> get to clear every camp in the jungle and to clear another wave of the lane while you TP to farm another lane. Pfft at 820 or whatever who says you shouldn't get radi ;o On October 05 2012 19:22 Shikyo wrote:On October 05 2012 19:16 Prime`Rib wrote:On October 05 2012 19:11 Shikyo wrote:
Radiance is so amazing on phantom lancer *_* Clear one wave -> get to clear every camp in the jungle and to clear another wave of the lane while you TP to farm another lane. Pfft at 820 or whatever who says you shouldn't get radi ;o Drum and Diffusal Blade made him a sick mid game hero. In my opinion if you pick a midgame hero PL is a terrible idea. On October 06 2012 01:21 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 01:19 Yoshi- wrote:
Why would you go soul ring when you are farming? I wouldn't, I'd probably rush straight radiance with nothing for a 13min radiance etc. However if you do need to lane like in pubs, tranquil + soul ring lets you win it against just about anything I think Can you... point out the problems? The second one is echoing many progamers, don't see the problem. The third one's what I'd do in the situation I don't need soul ring(complete freefarm). What's wrong with those? Would the progamers not go for a 13min radi when given complete freefarm? The first one you might have a problem with, that I can see. But what's wrong with it? I think it's pretty accurate... Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
I did, thats one of the reasons, along with the fact that he's in a skill bracket with said players to begin with, is why I assumed that he can't
It's as though none of you have read any of the standards for strategy suggestions here at TL
From the SC2 Forums strategy section
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable.
Above is why many posters have issue with Shikyo
This isn't the SC2 strategy forums, I know that's really strict.
I wouldn't post wonky theorycraft ideas there. In fact I've never done so.
Oh yeah that's for OPs also, I'm pretty sure. Especially the evidence part.
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So
I tried out Magnataur in Dota 2.
It seems like his ulti got nerfed somehow?
Reverse Polarity range and sucking aoe got a bit smaller.
It is almost the same as DS Vacuum but a better version of it with stun and damage.
Though Magnataur can still be a top pick.
I am expecting more Magna+Naga combo since the Naga+DS combo won't work so well as before since Vacuum got nerfed freaking hard.
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On October 06 2012 03:33 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:32 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 03:31 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 03:28 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 03:24 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 03:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
I did, thats why I assumed that he can't
It's as though none of you have read any of the standards for strategy suggestions here at TL
From the SC2 Forums strategy section
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable. Do note that the evidence doesn't have to be my own games. If I say that AM can get naked battle fury by 11min consistantly and then show pajkatt doing that it's fine. That would be perfectly fine, what is expected, and good discussion, but instead you post like this On October 05 2012 19:11 Shikyo wrote:
Radiance is so amazing on phantom lancer *_* Clear one wave -> get to clear every camp in the jungle and to clear another wave of the lane while you TP to farm another lane. Pfft at 820 or whatever who says you shouldn't get radi ;o On October 05 2012 19:22 Shikyo wrote:On October 05 2012 19:16 Prime`Rib wrote:On October 05 2012 19:11 Shikyo wrote:
Radiance is so amazing on phantom lancer *_* Clear one wave -> get to clear every camp in the jungle and to clear another wave of the lane while you TP to farm another lane. Pfft at 820 or whatever who says you shouldn't get radi ;o Drum and Diffusal Blade made him a sick mid game hero. In my opinion if you pick a midgame hero PL is a terrible idea. On October 06 2012 01:21 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 01:19 Yoshi- wrote:
Why would you go soul ring when you are farming? I wouldn't, I'd probably rush straight radiance with nothing for a 13min radiance etc. However if you do need to lane like in pubs, tranquil + soul ring lets you win it against just about anything I think Can you... point out the problems? The second one is echoing many progamers, don't see the problem. The third one's what I'd do in the situation I don't need soul ring(complete freefarm). What's wrong with those? Would the progamers not go for a 13min radi when given complete freefarm? The first one you might have a problem with, that I can see. But what's wrong with it? I think it's pretty accurate... On October 06 2012 03:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
I did, thats one of the reasons, along with the fact that he's in a skill bracket with said players to begin with, is why I assumed that he can't
It's as though none of you have read any of the standards for strategy suggestions here at TL
From the SC2 Forums strategy section
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable.
Above is why many posters have issue with Shikyo This isn't the SC2 strategy forums, I know that's really strict. I wouldn't post wonky theorycraft ideas there. In fact I've never done so. Oh yeah that's for OPs also, I'm pretty sure. Especially the evidence part.
What happened to the Bfury Dusa?
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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On October 06 2012 03:41 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:33 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 03:32 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 03:31 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 03:28 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 03:24 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 03:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
I did, thats why I assumed that he can't
It's as though none of you have read any of the standards for strategy suggestions here at TL
From the SC2 Forums strategy section
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable. Do note that the evidence doesn't have to be my own games. If I say that AM can get naked battle fury by 11min consistantly and then show pajkatt doing that it's fine. That would be perfectly fine, what is expected, and good discussion, but instead you post like this On October 05 2012 19:11 Shikyo wrote:
Radiance is so amazing on phantom lancer *_* Clear one wave -> get to clear every camp in the jungle and to clear another wave of the lane while you TP to farm another lane. Pfft at 820 or whatever who says you shouldn't get radi ;o On October 05 2012 19:22 Shikyo wrote:On October 05 2012 19:16 Prime`Rib wrote:On October 05 2012 19:11 Shikyo wrote:
Radiance is so amazing on phantom lancer *_* Clear one wave -> get to clear every camp in the jungle and to clear another wave of the lane while you TP to farm another lane. Pfft at 820 or whatever who says you shouldn't get radi ;o Drum and Diffusal Blade made him a sick mid game hero. In my opinion if you pick a midgame hero PL is a terrible idea. On October 06 2012 01:21 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 01:19 Yoshi- wrote:
Why would you go soul ring when you are farming? I wouldn't, I'd probably rush straight radiance with nothing for a 13min radiance etc. However if you do need to lane like in pubs, tranquil + soul ring lets you win it against just about anything I think Can you... point out the problems? The second one is echoing many progamers, don't see the problem. The third one's what I'd do in the situation I don't need soul ring(complete freefarm). What's wrong with those? Would the progamers not go for a 13min radi when given complete freefarm? The first one you might have a problem with, that I can see. But what's wrong with it? I think it's pretty accurate... On October 06 2012 03:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
I did, thats one of the reasons, along with the fact that he's in a skill bracket with said players to begin with, is why I assumed that he can't
It's as though none of you have read any of the standards for strategy suggestions here at TL
From the SC2 Forums strategy section
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable.
Above is why many posters have issue with Shikyo This isn't the SC2 strategy forums, I know that's really strict. I wouldn't post wonky theorycraft ideas there. In fact I've never done so. Oh yeah that's for OPs also, I'm pretty sure. Especially the evidence part. What happened to the Bfury Dusa?
I didn't make an OP of it in the SC2 strategy forums. It's a situational build, viable but not optimal, generally for pubs. Posted as a tongue-in-cheek because I at the time had given the impression that I like building Battle Fury on everything, so I figured it'd be nice to post about a semi-viable build on a ranged hero as self-satire. Also, it's really not a troll build, though not considered optimal.
I don't get the big deal with that, would people really freak out like that if I posted about another non-optimal but still viable build that doesn't have such an inbuilt "OMG CLEAVE DOESN'T WORK ON RANGED HERO" controversy baiter? (I guess they actually do freak out but <.<)
Yeah of course, though I'm not sure if this really is theorycraft at all o_O
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Yes create a theory craft thread.
I don't want to comeback and read 60 new post about some random crap
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I don't think its a good thing to use the highest level of professional players as a standard for MM games. Especially if you cite ZSMJ back when he was the top farming carry during the height of his career.
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On October 06 2012 03:13 PassiveAce wrote:
Its not like PL is known for stomping pubs. If your going to build radiance on him then you are choosing to play a late game oriented build, where you use Radiance to farm like a mofo for another 20-25 minutes, and in the meantime you are all but useless. But that strategy means you have to have a team that wont lose the game during that interval, which is why PL isnt a pubstomper.
PL actually is known for stomping pubs, at least at very low level. When it gets to lategame he is impossible to deal with and people don't push in low skill bracket.
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I'd consider my self pretty high skill and I can farm a radiance in 11minutes and I am not a pro. I do play Hard carry for scrims etc
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On October 06 2012 03:54 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:13 PassiveAce wrote:
Its not like PL is known for stomping pubs. If your going to build radiance on him then you are choosing to play a late game oriented build, where you use Radiance to farm like a mofo for another 20-25 minutes, and in the meantime you are all but useless. But that strategy means you have to have a team that wont lose the game during that interval, which is why PL isnt a pubstomper. PL actually is known for stomping pubs, at least at very low level. When it gets to lategame he is impossible to deal with and people don't push in low skill bracket.
He also has invisibility, which makes him 100% ungankable in the low skill bracket
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On October 06 2012 03:54 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:13 PassiveAce wrote:
Its not like PL is known for stomping pubs. If your going to build radiance on him then you are choosing to play a late game oriented build, where you use Radiance to farm like a mofo for another 20-25 minutes, and in the meantime you are all but useless. But that strategy means you have to have a team that wont lose the game during that interval, which is why PL isnt a pubstomper. PL actually is known for stomping pubs, at least at very low level. When it gets to lategame he is impossible to deal with and people don't push in low skill bracket.
Seeing that the majority of DotA games are played in low skill bracket and his win-rate is around 45% i can say that, no he is not known for stomping pubs. Unless ocassionally carrying his team equals stomping, i mean actual pub stompers like ursa has a win-rate to back up the title 'pub stomper' while PL does not have this.
And seeing that PL also has a high win-rate WITH expensive item kind of speaks against your comment of "No pushing" since the fact that him with expensive items = good winrate would imply that he loses before these expensive items comes up to achieve such a low overall win-rate.
Either that or the majority of PL player are just horrible farmers.
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I think the moral of the story is that if you say something and get flamed for the next 20 posts, stop arguing and apologize that you were wrong. Yes, everything is situational. But if you're discussing a situation that's virtually impossible to pull off, then stop discussing it.
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EPT
